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Random Daemon summonings?!

Unbound lists?!

Well time to build fallout shelters.

WayneTheGame wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
I'm confused as to why people think that Dark Angels are summoning demons in 7th Edition when they clearly say that they were messing around in the WD

Because they clearly weren't messing around. It's ambiguous.

Because if you're PLAYTESTING rules by "Messing around" with things that aren't actually in the rules... well...

But how do we know this? Simply, we don't. We really don't. We don't know much at all about this new book.

 AgeOfEgos wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
I'm confused as to why people think that Dark Angels are summoning demons in 7th Edition when they clearly say that they were messing around in the WD

Because it doesn't say that they were messing around. It says that he gave Ezekiel Daemonology in the interests of playtesting. Nothing in that statement suggests that it isn't normally allowed by the rules. It just says that he was trying out those powers in the new rules.


It's certainly possible that they chose to preview the new rules by talking about the stuff they did that isn't actually in those rules... but I fail to see what the point of that would be.

Yep, I agree. Even more along those lines, if you read the text to the left in the main body--it has partial sentences that strongly imply everyone barring Tyranids can take those powers--with another sentence below mentioning 'Summon the fell'. Given that the main body implies this, as well as the sidebar--and the fact GW has been pushing for people to have the ability to include more and more out of Codex options in their armies to increase sales--I'm inclined to believe it.

Insert internet rage.

So will we also see other "out of Codex" options like an optional 2d6 roll to insert a random $100 model onto the table for your side if you roll well enough?

Because all we need is more random charts and more reasons to invest in models that GW forces you to buy in order to take advantage of a new rule.

Unbound is crazy enough. Forcing armies with psykers to tote around more models for no practical purpose other than to roll on a random chart and pray for the best is even more unhinged.

I am genuinely interested to see how FW is going to change the HH lists for this.

After playing a few games with the FW lists and seeing the new 7th edition rules I am halfway tempted to go out back and burn my 6th ed SM codex.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
Random Daemon summonings?!

Unbound lists?!

Well time to build fallout shelters.

Vault time ya' say? So what shall our experiment be? The only recreational hobbies being 40k related?

(I hope nobody is a psyker when we go in. We might have a LoC pop up and gladly bless us all.

 Peregrine wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
If you are playing an unbound army, you are going for the table.

Only if you assume that GW is adding unbound armies for competitive play reasons, rather than as an opportunity for fluff players to bring fluffy lists that aren't currently legal. Those fluff players aren't going to realistically hope to table their opponents every game (nor are they likely to find that very much fun), and that means they're going to need some way to get scoring units.

Yeah, I'm sure they figure that it would be for fluffy players, but the fact that they said that there are going to be bonuses to take Battle Forged armies leads me to believe that there will be penalties for taking Unbound armies. One of the easiest ways to balance the cheese a bit would be to make it so the Unbound armies can't score; they are formed to wipe the enemy out, or are mindless Hordes that aren't held together by cohesive leadership. Or something. It's not so hard to make a fluffy reason as to why they can't score.

I'm hoping the bonuses for Battle Forged armies actually make it a real choice between the two, and, as I said, a really easy one would be to prevent any chance at score if you went with an unbound army. Otherwise, why wouldn't someone take the most price-efficient unit and spam the hell out of it, and simply make that FoC slot (which we don't use for unbound armies, so I guess there would be no slots to make scoring) scoring.

I mean, as much fun as facing 6-7 Riptides at 1500 points is going to be...

EDIT: I'm more amazed at the thought of my 65pt Librarians being able to throw dice at turning into a Bloodthirster. I mean, I suppose Apoc in regular 40k was a comin', with Lords of War in 40k now.

Might be a little off topic, but what's going to be going up for preorder this Friday? There isn't any more Wood Elf stuff, right?

I'm building a much bigger Saint Celestine model. I'll use that as a Bloodthirster when my allied in Inquisitor goes all Heretic.

He wasn't summoning Kfad'df'gorz'an, but just Saint Katherine, guys. Honest.

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
Random Daemon summonings?!

Unbound lists?!

Well time to build fallout shelters.

Vault time ya' say? So what shall our experiment be? The only recreational hobbies being 40k related?

(I hope nobody is a psyker when we go in. We might have a LoC pop up and gladly bless us all.

Well first off we would have to try and round up all the Taudar power gamers and force them to play each other. They'd be locked in an eternal stalemate.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Might be a little off topic, but what's going to be going up for preorder this Friday? There isn't any more Wood Elf stuff, right?

I wouldn't be surprised if the new rulebook does honestly, since GW has this habit of doing the teaser vids (which the released Monday) the week of the pre-order.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
Well first off we would have to try and round up all the Taudar power gamers and force them to play each other. They'd be locked in an eternal stalemate.

Hey, someone might be legitimately playing Tau with Eldar allies to embrace such fluff as...

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Might be a little off topic, but what's going to be going up for preorder this Friday? There isn't any more Wood Elf stuff, right?

I wouldn't be surprised if the new rulebook does honestly, since GW has this habit of doing the teaser vids (which the released Monday) the week of the pre-order.

No, the article said it's going up for preorder next week.

 TheKbob wrote:
I'm building a much bigger Saint Celestine model. I'll use that as a Bloodthirster when my allied in Inquisitor goes all Heretic.

He wasn't summoning Kfad'df'gorz'an, but just Saint Katherine, guys. Honest.

Forget Saint Katherine, I'm bringing Saint Olga!

Also I think I found a potential wife for Pask: http://www.badassoftheweek.com/index.cgi?id=64071327108

I suddenly have ideas for my 5-6 Contemptor list.

This is hilarious because people in my area absolutely despise them, since the Kheres pattern Mortis ones have caused untold havoc at my hand.

Or, dropping my Plaguebearers from my 5 FMC Daemon list, and reinvesting them into more upgrades for the FMCs.

I sincerely hope the benefits to take a Battle Forged army are worth it...

 TheKbob wrote:

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
Well first off we would have to try and round up all the Taudar power gamers and force them to play each other. They'd be locked in an eternal stalemate.

Hey, someone might be legitimately playing Tau with Eldar allies to embrace such fluff as...

There have actually been a number of hints that the Tau race was in some way created by, or at least protected by, the Eldar. I can't remember exactly where but the Xenology book definitely talked about it.

I think they just kind of had to be BB with *someone* out of game fairness (sorry, Tyranids) and GW picked the two most 'good' armies as likely allies.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Might be a little off topic, but what's going to be going up for preorder this Friday? There isn't any more Wood Elf stuff, right?

Warzone:VALEDOR!

(Nids vs eldar/Deldar). I'm totally getting one.

 TheKbob wrote:
I'm building a much bigger Saint Celestine model. I'll use that as a Bloodthirster when my allied in Inquisitor goes all Heretic.

He wasn't summoning Kfad'df'gorz'an, but just Saint Katherine, guys. Honest.

If the rumors that summoned Daemons may start attacking "friendly" forces are borne out, it'll be a real laugh when St Katherine starts slaughtering an Inquisition army.

I must have missed the info on summoned Daemons attacking your own forces.

All I saw about that previously was one or two people speculating that it might happen as a risk element.

 Alex C wrote:
I must have missed the info on summoned Daemons attacking your own forces.

All I saw about that previously was one or two people speculating that it might happen as a risk element.

Eh, maybe that's what I remember reading. Still, it'd be funny...AND a serious downside to summoning a GD.

shade1313 wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I'm building a much bigger Saint Celestine model. I'll use that as a Bloodthirster when my allied in Inquisitor goes all Heretic.

He wasn't summoning Kfad'df'gorz'an, but just Saint Katherine, guys. Honest.

If the rumors that summoned Daemons may start attacking "friendly" forces are borne out, it'll be a real laugh when St Katherine starts slaughtering an Inquisition army.

They were obviously heretics.

Hmmmm...IF they do the utterly stupid move of allowing Malefic Daemonology to armies for which it is completely unfluffy, like Eldar, that seems a perfect use for the FW Avatar model.

Crazyterran wrote:
Yeah, I'm sure they figure that it would be for fluffy players, but the fact that they said that there are going to be bonuses to take Battle Forged armies leads me to believe that there will be penalties for taking Unbound armies. One of the easiest ways to balance the cheese a bit would be to make it so the Unbound armies can't score; they are formed to wipe the enemy out, or are mindless Hordes that aren't held together by cohesive leadership.

There will be bonuses, but "no scoring units" is way too harsh a penalty. Remember, "table to win" is not a strategy that many non-competitive players find enjoyable. GW's ideal fluff player wants to bring their cool army and play normal missions, which means having scoring units. Meanwhile "cheese" won't be a concern because GW assumes that nobody will ever exploit their balance mistakes, and everyone will always take fluffy armies with a wide range of "fair" units.

shade1313 wrote:
Hmmmm...IF they do the utterly stupid move of allowing Malefic Daemonology to armies for which it is completely unfluffy, like Eldar, that seems a perfect use for the FW Avatar model.

Reminds me when I complained to Customer Service about what to do for Sisters since the Apoc book was advertised to have options for "every army" and Sisters didn't get anything, they said I could use anything, and the first thing that came to mind was Celestine using the rules for Unbound C'Tan.

Go on, try to punch my Living Saint in the face. She'll hit you with a massive flamer template, drop rocks FROM SPACE on you and then stomp your head in for good measure!

EDIT: In the end I was a lot nicer and took a Stormlord in our local Apoc game, but it was tempting to go all in for a couple minutes there.

 ruprecht wrote:
GW WD Batrep: "we thought it would be fun to superglue five Ultramarine tacticals together to form Ultramarine Voltron"

Dakka: "OMGOMG GW HAS LOST THE PLOT VOLTRON MARINES COMING IN 7TH IMMA PLAY WARMACHINE HALP"

Whilst the website may or may not be self-aware (I can't confirm that. Move along.) 'Dakka' rarely posts in news and rumours threads.

The opinions of any given dakka poster are the opinions of that poster, not a statement from some sort of gestalt consciousness. The community of people who post here is posting a fairly wide range of opinions on the news presented so far.

 Peregrine wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
Yeah, I'm sure they figure that it would be for fluffy players, but the fact that they said that there are going to be bonuses to take Battle Forged armies leads me to believe that there will be penalties for taking Unbound armies. One of the easiest ways to balance the cheese a bit would be to make it so the Unbound armies can't score; they are formed to wipe the enemy out, or are mindless Hordes that aren't held together by cohesive leadership.

There will be bonuses, but "no scoring units" is way too harsh a penalty. Remember, "table to win" is not a strategy that many non-competitive players find enjoyable. GW's ideal fluff player wants to bring their cool army and play normal missions, which means having scoring units. Meanwhile "cheese" won't be a concern because GW assumes that nobody will ever exploit their balance mistakes, and everyone will always take fluffy armies with a wide range of "fair" units.

Unless the bonus for the FOC armies is that they get to have scoring units. And even then, I don't think it will really be enough, since most armies now a days tend to lean towards minimal troops anyways with an emphasis on deathstars or power units like FMCs. Take away the troop tax, and suddenly those Deathstars and such get a little bit stronger. Besides, as you said, if they don't care about balance mistakes, why would they give Unbound armies scoring? After all, those Thirty Terminators from your Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics are totally there to just wipe the enemy out, no scoring units needed!

I personally think that it should be that the FoC armies get Scoring units and Warlord traits - at the minimum. Otherwise, I can't really think of anything simple they could give the FoC armies that would outweigh just spamming power units.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

shade1313 wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I'm building a much bigger Saint Celestine model. I'll use that as a Bloodthirster when my allied in Inquisitor goes all Heretic.

He wasn't summoning Kfad'df'gorz'an, but just Saint Katherine, guys. Honest.

If the rumors that summoned Daemons may start attacking "friendly" forces are borne out, it'll be a real laugh when St Katherine starts slaughtering an Inquisition army.

They were obviously heretics.

I'm okay with this. It means I was unfaithful.

Guys, this introduces a new meta game... How to table BOTH sides at the same time! Seventh Edition Hard Mode = Playing for the Double-Tabling Draw!

 mattyrm wrote:
I really don't like the idea of loyalist Space Marines turning to chaos to win a battle, it goes completely against all of the fluff we have been reading up to now surely?

I mean, one might turn, but not to win a battle for his chapter!

I agree, plus I think it's just chatter, we will have to hide and watch! If it is true it won't effect me because I don't use them anyway, never seemed like a Blood Angel thing to do.

Then again, since the psyker uses powers from the warp, barely contained when he is at his best, perhaps when he is wounded it takes it's toll, and it isn't an option but ranomized in the die roll? That would be very reasonable! Perhaps then even his own army would have to contend with the beast. I could live with that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheKbob wrote:
This is going to be a long two weeks.

Inversely, why is it that a new rules edition must be such a mystery? The lead-up seems like it's building the bad hype. I'm not particularly enjoying this, nothing has me "amped up" about it. Why can't it be seen months in advance like Warmachine or Infinity releases? At this point, we're in the Internet age... it's kinda sad and bumming me out that we are stuck with this archaic approach.

I am at the point that the rumors have me not excited to play the game. I'm not performing a max exodus fire sale, but I deleted all the competitive lists I had planned to save up and buy for this year. I'll probably ditch my Gue'vesa list for the time being, too. I'll snatch up some BA ICs that look cool and give them squads to lead, but that's about it.

Indeed... a very long too weeks...

 TheKbob wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

shade1313 wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I'm building a much bigger Saint Celestine model. I'll use that as a Bloodthirster when my allied in Inquisitor goes all Heretic.

He wasn't summoning Kfad'df'gorz'an, but just Saint Katherine, guys. Honest.

If the rumors that summoned Daemons may start attacking "friendly" forces are borne out, it'll be a real laugh when St Katherine starts slaughtering an Inquisition army.

They were obviously heretics.

I'm okay with this. It means I was unfaithful.

Guys, this introduces a new meta game... How to table BOTH sides at the same time! Seventh Edition Hard Mode = Playing for the Double-Tabling Draw!

I'd so play an army like that to play that game!

Then again I played a game in 5th that thanks to some poor dice rolls on reserves and some general issues overall (some of which were likely tactical errors on my part) I was tabled 3 times in the same game because I didn't want to give up just because I only had 2 units of Oblits (2 and 1 for the spread) in Reserves (in my defense he only had a small chunk of Eldar and if it wasn't for horrible scatters I actually stood a chance of at least forcing a draw).

I miss that option honestly. I get why GW moved to what they did (to stop the all reserve armies and related problems) but I feel that not giving players the option to play on despite things going badly so they can try to turn things around and win isn't good "forging the narrative".

Crazyterran wrote:
EDIT: I'm more amazed at the thought of my 65pt Librarians being able to throw dice at turning into a Bloodthirster.

Dark angels unbound 2000 pts

28 librarians - 1820 pts
Defense line with quad gun - 100 pts
Combi-meltas on a few, maybe meltabombs on a couple, ymmv

I think this could be great. They're fallen angels that found each other and they're going to drown you in big daemons.

There are 2 of these tables remember so the other one will likely be good as well for you fluff monkeys.