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I tried to read those WD pages but all I heard was "Blah blah, we're trying to justify lazy game design and money grabbing blah blah."

Okay, maybe that was a bit too negative.

Unbound forces are the new baseline....

Like feth they are!

I didnt read much (their WD writing style makes me annoyed for some reason, so I never read the things) but the bits I read just looked like odd propaganda haha.

Im surprised the orks lost though, I think I read somewhere in this thread that the Tyranids defeated a Tau and Marine alliance army swiftly. I thought they where gonna try make out the worst armies are actually pretty good or something.

I think im skipping the cards.

 Vector Strike wrote:
edit: ninja'ed by zion

Sorry abut that!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I tried to read those WD pages but all I heard was "Blah blah, we're trying to justify lazy game design and money grabbing blah blah."

Okay, maybe that was a bit too negative.

Actually it's more like: "Blah, blah blah, Jervis Johnson has been working here forever, blah blah blah we changed some stuff but not everything blah blah blah some more info about the changes, the end."

Nice to see the iBooks and ePub editions confirmed for defs though, am I being paranoid that they haven't printed the price?

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Sell your 40k for Warmachine and hordes. The only part of this thread worth reading at this point is the first post.

Yes, indeed! Better get you models up for sale on e-bay ASAP, before everyone else realises that the end of WH40k is upon them!

You might have to offer lower prices, but it's better to get something for them now than nothing at all in a few weeks.

Especially if you happen to play orks and live in the UK!

Same here if you live near Southern Callifornia and Play Space Wolves!

I wonder if tableing an opponent is still an auto-win?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
hahahahaha come the apocalypse guys can ally now?

Why shouldn't they have been able to before?

Seriously. It was a silly restriction.

silly? I don't know what's silly about tyranids not being able to ally with ultramarines.

 azreal13 wrote:
Unbound forces are the new baseline....

Like feth they are!

Honestly I don't mind the loss of the FOC, I mind that the game is still going to be unbalanced due to the way things are points costed and that'll cause the real issues.

I am hearing though (through my FLGS from his rep) that there is something along the lines of the "Be a Grownup" Rule. Basically the spirit of the game from 6th codified to an actual rule about not being a dick to your opponent and playing lists you know they won't have fun against.

Kinda like GW is trying to make their own Page 5 I guess.

I found the funniest part of the WD article was where he said that Space Marine Captains and Chaplains were getting far more game time than Librarians so they needed to buff the psykers to correct the imbalance, I nearly fell off my chair, what game are they playing because its different to any I've tried.


Still I'm liking what I've read so far, lots of good changes and a few stupid rules that will be ignored by 90% of sensible gamers.

 WisdomLS wrote:
I found the funniest part of the WD article was where he said that Space Marine Captains and Chaplains were getting far more game time than Librarians so they needed to buff the psykers to correct the imbalance, I nearly fell off my chair, what game are they playing because its different to any I've tried.

Still I'm liking what I've read so far, lots of good changes and a few stupid rules that will be ignored by 90% of sensible gamers.

Yeah, the studio's meta is unlike anything we have going on outside of Nottingham it seems.

Everyone is preaching doom and gloom but I have to say I am super excited now that I've read that battle report and how the new mission objectives work.

Plus the new wound allocation is uh.. interesting. Then you have the Battleforged, unbound, and now Super heavy Vehicles in the game. That's pretty awesome.

Plus the new psychic phase, that's pretty awesome.

I like it, I like the changes that are being made.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
hahahahaha come the apocalypse guys can ally now?

Why shouldn't they have been able to before?

Seriously. It was a silly restriction.

silly? I don't know what's silly about tyranids not being able to ally with ultramarines.

Go to page 112 of your current rulebook and read the "Forging the Narrative"/"Allies of Convenience" bits.

"Allies" does not necessarily mean that your two forces are buddy buddy. It could--in the case of "Come the Apocalypse" for example--simply be two armies with similar goals on the field at the same time.

I really hate all the "D3" victory points for those objectives if you complete the "harder" version of it.. Why does everything have to be a damn random roll? Cant it just be "or Score 2 points"??? I suppose by making it so the better player gets random amount of bonus points (which could equal the same as completing the lesser objective) it keeps bad players from being outpaced too much? Yay mediocrity instead of growing into a better player.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Unbound forces are the new baseline....

Like feth they are!

Honestly I don't mind the loss of the FOC, I mind that the game is still going to be unbalanced due to the way things are points costed and that'll cause the real issues.

I am hearing though (through my FLGS from his rep) that there is something along the lines of the "Be a Grownup" Rule. Basically the spirit of the game from 6th codified to an actual rule about not being a dick to your opponent and playing lists you know they won't have fun against.

Kinda like GW is trying to make their own Page 5 I guess.

But the problem comes from when someone's idea of fun is very different than their opponents.
A dude's all riptide and broadside list might be the ideal of fun for him. (as stated as an example in the WD) Or someone's Necron Mololith list.
But those wouldn't be fun for me.
Both ideas are legit so no one's really in the wrong, yet there's no way playing against each other would be fun.

Hollismason wrote:
Everyone is preaching doom and gloom but I have to say I am super excited now that I've read that battle report and how the new mission objectives work.

Plus the new wound allocation is uh.. interesting. Then you have the Battleforged, unbound, and now Super heavy Vehicles in the game. That's pretty awesome.

Plus the new psychic phase, that's pretty awesome.

I like it, I like the changes that are being made.

I agree, I think the changes contain more good than bad. At least all the bad can easily be done away with with a quick sentence prior to the game.

After playing fantasy, im very excited for a phase dedicated to magic duels.

I havent had a GW release where it seemed this way. I feel like my hopes can go up a little this time.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Sell your 40k for Warmachine and hordes. The only part of this thread worth reading at this point is the first post.

Yes, indeed! Better get you models up for sale on e-bay ASAP, before everyone else realises that the end of WH40k is upon them!

You might have to offer lower prices, but it's better to get something for them now than nothing at all in a few weeks.

Especially if you happen to play orks and live in the UK!

I dont live in the UK but my sig says it all.

 Swastakowey wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
.

I agree, I think the changes contain more good than bad. At least all the bad can easily be done away with with a quick sentence prior to the game.

That sentence being "I'm not playing your all Lemun Russ army."

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
.

I agree, I think the changes contain more good than bad. At least all the bad can easily be done away with with a quick sentence prior to the game.

That sentence being "I'm not playing your all Lemun Russ army."

No for me it will be

"no unbound armies or mission cards?", I know I will never have to ask this as I belong to a club but still.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Unbound forces are the new baseline....

Like feth they are!

Honestly I don't mind the loss of the FOC, I mind that the game is still going to be unbalanced due to the way things are points costed and that'll cause the real issues.

I am hearing though (through my FLGS from his rep) that there is something along the lines of the "Be a Grownup" Rule. Basically the spirit of the game from 6th codified to an actual rule about not being a dick to your opponent and playing lists you know they won't have fun against.

Kinda like GW is trying to make their own Page 5 I guess.

That's all well and good, but those of us who are capable of grasping the concept don't need it codified. In a completely neutral, neither praising nor condemning, manner, I offer Makumba on this very board. He doesn't get that. He sees it as a game where victory is the objective, so why would you ever take anything but the brokenest, most points efficient or most OP units in order to do so?

Alternatively, the guy I played at our largely casual club a few weeks back, who brings net lists (or net lists with a few small changes, so he can deny they're net lists.) I (hopefully) lightheartedly teased him about his cheese as the game went on, and tried to subtly suggest he consider his opponent's enjoyment when playing pickup games and save his full on WAAC competitive cheese lists for events and games where his opponent knew what they were letting themselves in for. I felt I'd made my point when, after the game, referring to my Iron Armed GUO, which was my sole survivor, he said "so that's what it feels like to try and kill a Wraithknight!"

The following week, rather than bringing a Jetbike Autarch, a bunch of Dire Avengers in Waveserpents and a pair of Wraithknights that he brought against me, he brought a Spiritseer, a bunch of Wraithguard in Waveserpents. Aaaand, a pair of Wraithknights. That was against our most junior player as well IIRC.

My point is, the rules need to provide a framework regardless, as "don't be a dick" as a rule is either irrelevant or insufficient.

The mission cards are a really cool idea, but hopefully they add some more interesting ones down the road.

I'd ask for them to not be so random, but...

 azreal13 wrote:


My point is, the rules need to provide a framework regardless, as "don't be a dick" as a rule is either irrelevant or insufficient.

I couldn't agree more.

 Blacksails wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:


My point is, the rules need to provide a framework regardless, as "don't be a dick" as a rule is either irrelevant or insufficient.

I couldn't agree more.

Oh, go on, I'm sure you could squeeze a little more agreement out if you tried!

I think it is pretty cool. It pushes you to diversify your lists. If you have no mobile elements you might miss out on getting forward objectives. If you are have no assault units you have a wasted card.

But at the same time you have three cards and can discard 1 per turn. So you can decide which ones you are most likely to complete that turn and then allocate resources towards that.

Adds a whole new level of tactical play abilities. I am excited!!

 Leth wrote:
I think it is pretty cool. It pushes you to diversify your lists. If you have no mobile elements you might miss out on getting forward objectives. If you are have no assault units you have a wasted card.

But at the same time you have three cards and can discard 1 per turn. So you can decide which ones you are most likely to complete that turn and then allocate resources towards that.

Adds a whole new level of tactical play abilities. I am excited!!

Yeah, me too.

Being purely selfish and discarding the issues that don't directly affect me in the environment I play in, everything I've heard I'm largely positive about, potential Unbound abuses aside.

Yeah it really is I think a super dynamic situation and even prevents the late term grabs.

Sure Eldar with Wave Serpents can blast forward and claim a objective, but it flat out stops people flying all over the board and contesting stuff if you have troops on those objectives.

It really seems cool.

It's a game, it is supposed to be fun first and foremost. One shouldn't have to skip fielding models they like just to keep slots open for models that are strategically vital.

OK, let me get this straight, If I take 3 units of these Cthulhuoid mantises, then I can't take any can opening brain bugs?

The Imperium of Man is beset on all sides.

Fight the Alien.

 Scorpio616 wrote:
It's a game, it is supposed to be fun first and foremost. One shouldn't have to skip fielding models they like just to keep slots open for models that are strategically vital.

OK, let me get this straight, If I take 3 units of these Cthulhuoid mantises, then I can't take any can opening brain bugs?

So you are saying people should be able to make bad tactical choices and still win.......

List building is as much a tactical decision as playing the game itself. Hell I spend almost more time working on lists than actually playing.

I used to be mad about a lot of netlists I faced...until I realized I was A. playing badly, and B. bringing lists that I thought were cool instead of tactically sound. Do I bring net lists? Nope, but I try to play well to mitigate that power difference and even if I dont win I give it my all and it is always more satisfying to have a well fought loss than an unsatisfying win.

At the last tournament I went to the game was over in the first 2 turns, and they were tabled or gave up by turn 4. It was completely unsatisfying(and that was without a netlist). So for the next tournament I am toning down my list further to try and make it a better game.

The change to vehicle damage is promising... Making it harder to one-shot vehicles is a good change.

However, unless they have changed how LOS works, they have managed to make regular shooting even more annoying with the change to rolling each different weapon individually...