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 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
So do we have a confirmed rumor anywhere about snap shot being -2 bs? Because I REALLY want that...

Anyone?

As far as I know, there is nothing confirmed about that.

Are there any confirmed rules that would buff assault armies? I read most of this thread and didn't find anything, but it got so big that I might have missed it.

You can't speed roll shooting phases anymore specifically because wounds are resolved by weapon, so if your flamer knocks some bolter guys out of rapid fire, this would reduce your shots. That's how the white dwarf is written, thus yes, shooting phases will take longer. Unless we fall back on the concept of the white dwarf is wrong, thus GW is either incompetent or lying,

Tournaments are the best measure for game length. Round lengths got longer because games were longer for 6th. The only thing I can tell you is listen to every competitive 40k podcast and email TOs. There have been multiple discussions about game length and games not reaching their natural conclusion in timed events where previously they had. Again, don't believe me if you wish, I don't have a reason to lie. I know Feast of Blades went to 2.5 rounds specifically over their previous 2 and many more did the same,

No rules have been leaked that would suggest any buff to assault based armies. :/

Nope, only thing I have read that would affect assault armies was the reduction of charging into difficult terrain. No buffs to CC armies as yet. I remain hopeful.

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
So do we have a confirmed rumor anywhere about snap shot being -2 bs? Because I REALLY want that...

Anyone?

As far as I know, there is nothing confirmed about that.

That is the one thing I realllyyyy want to see in 7th

 TheKbob wrote:
You can't speed roll shooting phases anymore specifically because wounds are resolved by weapon, so if your flamer knocks some bolter guys out of rapid fire, this would reduce your shots. That's how the white dwarf is written, thus yes, shooting phases will take longer. Unless we fall back on the concept of the white dwarf is wrong, thus GW is either incompetent or lying,

Tournaments are the best measure for game length. Round lengths got longer because games were longer for 6th. The only thing I can tell you is listen to every competitive 40k podcast and email TOs. There have been multiple discussions about game length and games not reaching their natural conclusion in timed events where previously they had. Again, don't believe me if you wish, I don't have a reason to lie. I know Feast of Blades went to 2.5 rounds specifically over their previous 2 and many more did the same,

No rules have been leaked that would suggest any buff to assault based armies. :/

idk, shooting weapons being resolved separately is a buff (in disguise, well, mainly a shooting nerf.) for CC armies if range of weapon is taken into consideration as in 6th. Lots of short range weaponry will no longer be able to wound large distances due to the one guy firing the 24'' weapon with the unit. (Assuming that is all in).

But nothing confirmed I can think of, indeed in over watch remains unchanged but just -2 BS then it'll be worse. I still have hopes though, I think most will come in the form of shooting nerfs rather than CC buffs. I don't think we'll see any drop-and-charge being added.

CC armies are also buffed by the challenge rule spilling wounds over, but that's mainly single CC orientated models, which needed this buff really.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
So do we have a confirmed rumor anywhere about snap shot being -2 bs? Because I REALLY want that...

Anyone?

Nope, just rumour.

Some early rumour's noted the possibility of having to pass a test to be able to OW. I would be willing to bet if -2 BS is true then there is something extra needed to OW.

Or something similar, flat out 6+ to hit (which would nerf the worst offenders (tau)).

 Nem wrote:


idk, shooting weapons being resolved separately is a buff (in disguise, well, mainly a shooting nerf.) for CC armies if range of weapon is taken into consideration as in 6th. Lots of short range weaponry will no longer be able to wound large distances due to the one guy firing the 24'' weapon with the unit. (Assuming that is all in).

But nothing confirmed I can think of, indeed in over watch remains unchanged but just -2 BS then it'll be worse. I still have hopes though, I think most will come in the form of shooting nerfs rather than CC buffs. I don't think we'll see any drop-and-charge being added.

CC armies are also buffed by the challenge rule spilling wounds over, but that's mainly single CC orientated models, which needed this buff really.

Could be the boon indeed, it all relies on the factual validity of this snap fire talk. I'm not looking forward to the new wound allocation as it will probably make me either take two flamers or just one heavy flamer in my battle sister squads.

I'm torn on the spill over of wounds. I don't play any CC beasts and chumping them with a sgt was the only way to counter them for me. Now they just cut through a unit and I won't accept challenge at all being it's useless. Wounds should count for resolution, sure, but this is a bit much.

 Squidbot wrote:
Nope, only thing I have read that would affect assault armies was the reduction of charging into difficult terrain. No buffs to CC armies as yet. I remain hopeful.

The difficult terrain thing is pretty huge to certain armies, especially Tyranids and melee Daemons. It was crazy how essential assault grenades were yet so many pure assault units didn't get them. Now things like Hormagaunts, Genestealers and Bloodletters will be at least a bit more effective.
Edit: It was also a dumb mechanic for Monstrous Creatures. Watching an Avatar charge into combat past a shrubbery and drop from I10 to I1 really shows how ridiculous it was.

There's also the change to let challenge wounds spill over into combat, which helps uber melee units like Bloodthirsters.

 xttz wrote:

 Squidbot wrote:
Nope, only thing I have read that would affect assault armies was the reduction of charging into difficult terrain. No buffs to CC armies as yet. I remain hopeful.

The difficult terrain thing is pretty huge to certain armies, especially Tyranids and melee Daemons. It was crazy how essential assault grenades were yet so many pure assault units didn't get them. Now things like Hormagaunts, Genestealers and Bloodletters will be at least a bit more effective.

There's also the change to let challenge wounds spill over into combat, which helps uber melee units like Bloodthirsters.

The -2" charge through terrain speaks nothing about assault grenades and initiative. Only the distance needed to close.

I hope the rule of 2 applies however and just makes assaulting in terrain with no grenades a -2 I instead of I1

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 Squidbot wrote:
Nope, only thing I have read that would affect assault armies was the reduction of charging into difficult terrain. No buffs to CC armies as yet. I remain hopeful.

The difficult terrain thing is pretty huge to certain armies, especially Tyranids and melee Daemons. It was crazy how essential assault grenades were yet so many pure assault units didn't get them. Now things like Hormagaunts, Genestealers and Bloodletters will be at least a bit more effective.

There's also the change to let challenge wounds spill over into combat, which helps uber melee units like Bloodthirsters.

The -2" charge through terrain speaks nothing about assault grenades and initiative. Only the distance needed to close.

I hope the rule of 2 applies however and just makes assaulting in terrain with no grenades a -2 I instead of I1

That would almost make Genestealers effective...! That'll never happen...

It would almost make Howling Banshees effective..! That'll never happen...

 TheKbob wrote:
You can't speed roll shooting phases anymore specifically because wounds are resolved by weapon, so if your flamer knocks some bolter guys out of rapid fire, this would reduce your shots.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. All hits and all wounds can be rolled together. Obviously, different dice per weapon. The rumors I have seen are about a difference at the wound resolution stage, not "to hit" or "to wound", so there is no reduction of "shots". Basically, once you have your wound pool, resolve them in the order you wish, obviously optimal would be shortest to longest. Just do a quick measure after each set of saves to see max number of casualties that can be caused for that weapons range. To be honest, this is the way we were doing it at the beginning of 6th before that FAQ came out that implied a ML increases the kill range of Bolters. It was a little slower, but not much since most of the time we had to separate for S and AP anyway.

i'm affraid the extra magic-phase will become some kind of 2nd shooting phase. And my orks wil get shot or casted away from table top even faster.

 wallygator wrote:
i'm affraid the extra magic-phase will become some kind of 2nd shooting phase. And my orks wil get shot or casted away from table top even faster.

Even though multiple Witchfires can be cast, the mechanics of the phase make me think fewer powers will actually be cast in the new edition. We'll have to see what the new composition of powers is, but if they are similar to now, I think most will devote the limited resources to Blessings/Maledictions, just as before.

 wallygator wrote:
i'm affraid the extra magic-phase will become some kind of 2nd shooting phase. And my orks wil get shot or casted away from table top even faster.

Only when you play Daemons. Most other armies have very little if any psychic shooting attacks, most of the annoying things are blessings.

Davor wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
So do we have a confirmed rumor anywhere about snap shot being -2 bs? Because I REALLY want that...

Anyone?

Nope, just rumour.

How about the changes to jink? I've heard hearsay but seen nothing, and I usually follow the philosophy of "believe none of what you hear and half of what you see"

The Jink thing was in a leaked WD pic I believe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If snap firing is -2 BS then assault armies will be hit with a crushing nerf. As well as flyers, especially AV 10 ones.

I have no idea why people want assault to be even more dead than it is now.

mercury14 wrote:



I have no idea why people want assault to be even more dead than it is now.

i think the same people who think "allright, unbound army! 10 ritpides with gakloads of markerlights, done! "

mercury14 wrote:
I have no idea why people want assault to be even more dead than it is now.

Maybe it's time that all those melee units learned that ranged weapons have been making melee mostly obsolete since approximately 1700.

39,299 years is long enough to get the gist, right?

 wallygator wrote:
i'm affraid the extra magic-phase will become some kind of 2nd shooting phase. And my orks wil get shot or casted away from table top even faster.

I think psychic tests actually got harder to pull off. Most psykers are ld 10. That means the test passes about 83% of the time. With the rules change, on two dice you have just shy of a 25% chance of passing. On 3 dice it goes up to 75%, but the odds of perils goes up too. Also 3 dice means you have less powers you can cast a turn. Finally, it looks like we always get to deny - provided you haven't used up your charge pool.

Is it another shooting phase? Yes. But a minor one. Kind of like how overwatch was an extra shooting attack but ultimately pretty minor as well.

mercury14 wrote:

The Jink thing was in a leaked WD pic I believe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If snap firing is -2 BS then assault armies will be hit with a crushing nerf. As well as flyers, especially AV 10 ones.

I have no idea why people want assault to be even more dead than it is now.

But it does kinda make sense that people with better BS are going to be better at overwatch.

If you're playing against anything that isn't majority BS4 or higher you're not going to notice any difference, except for anything that's BS2 of course.

Also if anyone thinks the psychic phase is going to slow down the game, it won't.

Now instead of having two different phases to cast power in, you have one. It will be faster if anything.

I think somewhere along the way in this thread, the initial rumor was overwatch at -2 bs and that got conflated by some to mean all snapshots. Someone said something about if they didn't move the turn before but that could have been wish listing (which there's been a fair amount of in this thread).

I'm just going off of my faulty memory here and am certainly not going through 100s of pages to find it so we'll have to wait and see.

Oops, multi!

Angelic wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
You can't speed roll shooting phases anymore specifically because wounds are resolved by weapon, so if your flamer knocks some bolter guys out of rapid fire, this would reduce your shots.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. All hits and all wounds can be rolled together. Obviously, different dice per weapon. The rumors I have seen are about a difference at the wound resolution stage, not "to hit" or "to wound", so there is no reduction of "shots". Basically, once you have your wound pool, resolve them in the order you wish, obviously optimal would be shortest to longest. Just do a quick measure after each set of saves to see max number of casualties that can be caused for that weapons range. To be honest, this is the way we were doing it at the beginning of 6th before that FAQ came out that implied a ML increases the kill range of Bolters. It was a little slower, but not much since most of the time we had to separate for S and AP anyway.

Not quite --- the shooting page clearly says to resolve all to-hit and to-wound rolls for each class of weapon one at a time. (I've seen this for myself by reading the tiny print in the White Dwarf preview). This means that if you have, for instance, a flamer and 4 bolters rapid-firing at a unit you do the flamer first, then see who in the unit survived and measure your bolters and fire those next. This can sometimes make it so that you kill a few models with one class of weapon, which leaves another class of weapon in that unit out of range to shoot (whereas in 6th they'd all shoot together). Be that as it may, it does prevent "WTF" moments by allowing a single model in a unit (like an ork boy with a big shoota or a tyranid warrior with a barbed strangler) to increase the effective range of the whole unit.

It sounds like it will add time to games but in my experience most rolls for weapons are being done separately now anyhow (we just save the wounds all at the end). I like this change and it actually makes logical sense.

 Brachiaraidos wrote:

mercury14 wrote:
I have no idea why people want assault to be even more dead than it is now.

Maybe it's time that all those melee units learned that ranged weapons have been making melee mostly obsolete since approximately 1700.

39,299 years is long enough to get the gist, right?

lol. Have an exalt. "In the 41st millennia there are only pointy sticks."

TimmyIsChaos wrote:

But it does kinda make sense that people with better BS are going to be better at overwatch.

If you're playing against anything that isn't majority BS4 or higher you're not going to notice any difference, except for anything that's BS2 of course.

From a game balance perspective, do you really want a unit of Dire Avengers hitting on 5+, rending, and their Exarch hitting on 4+ possibly twin-linked?

Have fun assaulting a Guardian blob since they can wipe out a whole squad of 5 assault marines in Overwatch.

clively wrote:

 wallygator wrote:
i'm affraid the extra magic-phase will become some kind of 2nd shooting phase. And my orks wil get shot or casted away from table top even faster.

I think psychic tests actually got harder to pull off. Most psykers are ld 10. That means the test passes about 83% of the time. With the rules change, on two dice you have just shy of a 25% chance of passing. On 3 dice it goes up to 75%, but the odds of perils goes up too. Also 3 dice means you have less powers you can cast a turn. Finally, it looks like we always get to deny - provided you haven't used up your charge pool.

Is it another shooting phase? Yes. But a minor one. Kind of like how overwatch was an extra shooting attack but ultimately pretty minor as well.

hmm... i haven't looked it that way. could be an intresting addition to the game then

mercury14 wrote:

I have no idea why people want assault to be even more dead than it is now.

Because, for some silly reason, everyone in the future has guns but they were nothing more then over-glorified clubs. This is the future, guns are everywhere. Why should someone just like up a horde on CC models and run directly at the enemy though withering fire for two rounds then slaughter everything when they get there. Fire and manuever, tanks, artillery, aircraft, and transports. Yet some people want to play the game as if it were WHFB and just line up a large army and run right at the other army.