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Some information about Sanctic and Malefic Daemonology stuff there...

Sanctic Powers: Psykers from Codex: Grey Knights can take Sanctic Powers, but cannot generate Malefic powers at all.
It then says that "all other Psykers that attempt to manifest Sanctic powers suffer Perils of the Warp on a Psychic test that includes any double, whether the Psychic test was successful or not."

Malefic Powers: Psykers with the Daemon special rule can manifest Malefic powers as they would any other psychic power, but they cannot generate Sanctic powers at all.

All other Psykers that attempt to manifest Malefic powers suffer Perils of the Warp on a Psychic test that includes any double, whether the Psychic test was successful or not.

The images also expand out to full page rules. Grey Knights manifest Santic Powers as normal (No perils on doubles) but cannot manifest Maleficarum at all. Psykers with the Daemons special rule have the reverse.
All other psykers who use daemonology suffer perils on doubles.
Santic looks like to be definitely Daemon banishment as per the "Forge the Narrative" box.

Full page vehicle rules too on there...

Nothing new from the vehicle page other than adding instruction for the psychic phase.

We can also see that they added the relentless definition there. If they have a full section for USR and also copied them all over the place where needed as quick reference, it might explain some of the extra pages of rules compared to the 6th edition rules page count.

 paqman wrote:
Nothing new from the vehicle page other than adding instruction for the psychic phase.

We can also see that they added the relentless definition there. If they have a full section for USR and also copied them all over the place where needed as quick reference, it might explain some of the extra pages of rules compared to the 6th edition rules page count.

Yeah it looks like there is no difference to Ordnance weaponry which is a shame.

Deploy objectives before picking sides. Good.

First turn is interesting. Seems like you roll off for deploying, then after having deployed, the player that deployed first can decide to go first or second.

First blood is still in. :(

 paqman wrote:
Nothing new from the vehicle page other than adding instruction for the psychic phase.

We can also see that they added the relentless definition there. If they have a full section for USR and also copied them all over the place where needed as quick reference, it might explain some of the extra pages of rules compared to the 6th edition rules page count.

From what has been written in White Dwarf so far, there are also the rules for Superheavy Vehicles and updated lists of fortifications in the main rulebook...so that's "extra pages of rules" as well.

I like what I'm seeing with the new daemonolgy info. Makes sense that others find it harder to cast Santic powrs, and is more balanced then anti-daemon powers everywhere. The same is true for Malefic powers. No spamming daemons everywhere and no mass daemon slaughtering everywhere.

Will be interesting to see if GK and Daemons can have a fair fight in 7th, though.

Hopefully this will assuage the fears some were expressing about GK and Malefic Daemonology.

 Thud wrote:
Deploy objectives before picking sides. Good.

First turn is interesting. Seems like you roll off for deploying, then after having deployed, the player that deployed first can decide to go first or second.

First blood is still in. :(

I was just about to comment on all these things. I'll add in this: There is a "Standard Deployment" type when setting up for a mission. I'd bet a car that there's also an "Alternating Deployment" setup for some missions in 7th.

I like the fact that the winner of the roll-off has to deploy first, no matter what, then take the tactical decision of going first or second. Also by the way it reads, if the player setting up first decides to go second, he cannot go back and try to seize the initiative to go first. There goes a Vect tactic right out the window for DE players (good riddance, if you ask me).

Super excited, only 5 more days until we can start playing the new style. Call me optimistic but i really believe that some of the GW staff really has been paying attention to gripes with the game we've been having.

.. so seems you can snap fire some ordnance weapons now then ?


Thinking non blast ones can be snap fired then ?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 paqman wrote:
Nothing new from the vehicle page other than adding instruction for the psychic phase.

We can also see that they added the relentless definition there. If they have a full section for USR and also copied them all over the place where needed as quick reference, it might explain some of the extra pages of rules compared to the 6th edition rules page count.

From what has been written in White Dwarf so far, there are also the rules for Superheavy Vehicles and updated lists of fortifications in the main rulebook...so that's "extra pages of rules" as well.

Yeah,that's for sure

That's funny. GW is our biggest source of "leaks" for this release. I hope we have a QnA thread starting tomorow or Wednesday when the book ends up in someone's hands.

Reading the FOC rules pages, looks like there are no need for Double FOC rules, as you can pick any number of detachments... so, if I understand it correctly, you can have an army with all but HQs and Troops? 3 combined armies detachments, giving you 6 HQs and potentially 18 Troops (not even using allies)

I can't really read it well, does that say that a Leman Russ now has 5 HP?

 Kanluwen wrote:


Some information about Sanctic and Malefic Daemonology stuff there...

Sanctic Powers: Psykers from Codex: Grey Knights can take Sanctic Powers, but cannot generate Malefic powers at all.
It then says that "all other Psykers that attempt to manifest Sanctic powers suffer Perils of the Warp on a Psychic test that includes any double, whether the Psychic test was successful or not."

Malefic Powers: Psykers with the Daemon special rule can manifest Malefic powers as they would any other psychic power, but they cannot generate Sanctic powers at all.

All other Psykers that attempt to manifest Malefic powers suffer Perils of the Warp on a Psychic test that includes any double, whether the Psychic test was successful or not.

Bah, honestly I don't get this.
I can't see why Ahriman or any ML3 Chaos Sorcerer should have more troubles in summoning daemons than a pathetic ML1 Herald. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Hope they'll fix that with specific FAQs for Chaos Sorcerers

Diablix wrote:
I'd see as an act of heroism: "I think I can slain by myself, so let's kill the beast before it eats some of my brother in arms".

Yes, that's how I see it. However it makes no sense that IG sarge can stop BT from killing half a dozen people including himself taking all hits by himself.

Diablix wrote:
Or just think of a Chaos Warlord. Really. Can you imagine Abaddon, the strongest, baddest and brutal "mortal" being in the whole galaxy hide behind 5 Justaerin Terminators?
Really? And he would expect to run a Black Crusade after that, maybe?

Honestly I believe that the "MUST challenge" rule for Chaos makes perfectly sense, fluss-wise. Yes, from a game perspective is never nice to "lose" control, but how I said, it would be stupid to see a mighty Warlord hide behind his subjects or refuse the opportunity to glorify himself to the eyes of the chaos gods.

Maybe it would be nicer to see the rule valid only for HQ characters (a tactical aspirant champion is not really that powerful/important) and a really bigger malus if you deny, more than being forced. But then we'd be talking about codices, not the BRB

That's what I'm saying. It's fine for some specific models to challenge whether it's to murder something important or to tank strong attacker, but it's not fine as a general rule IMO.

From fluff perspective, somtimes it does more harm than good to allow youself to be provoked, sometimes it's even bad from PR standpoint, not to mention fighting to win aspect ("So, have you seen Abbaddon getting all worked up over something incoherent that corpse slave was shouting? Some ten millenia warlord right there. I wonder how far we're going to advance under command of someone this impulsive. Yeah, he did slay that mongrel, but I've snapped several necks in that exact timeframe, so what are we arguing about again?"). Sometimes you are capable enough to distract that incoming monstrosity for any meaningful time, sometimes not. Not every faction has similar idea about purpose and honor either ("That's just on man! Not enough blood for the Blood God, you are pathetic, enjoy your spawnhood."). Rules as they are do not take that into perspective, they assume that everyone are the same. You don't have to be tough-as-nails Nork to stop that murdertrain of a daemon from ripping your squad to shreds, you can't be Slaaneshi lord who can say "I'm gonna shred that fool's brethren to pieces first and then hang him on their intestines for what he just said, I'm gonna enjoy the look on his face when he sees that". That's where fluff meets pragmatic gameplay. It's in our imagination. But when you introduce "fluffy rule" as a general rule (even if it's just codex-wide, not game-wide), you inevitably create a situation where it sometimes works and sometimes not, something you could've avoided if you approached with case-by-case basis.

We don't need "cinematic rules" and whatnot to create "epic narrative". We need imagination and incentive to be as different on the battlefield as our factions, doing "cool stuff" not because it's cool, but because it makes sense - then the "narrative" will be "forged" by itself, and you wont't have to repeat it again and again. But ofc it's easier to write something that only fits the fluff if you only look from one perspective and not another and make rules that create a lot of issues, and then blame players for not playing properly.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Reading the FOC rules pages, looks like there are no need for Double FOC rules, as you can pick any number of detachments... so, if I understand it correctly, you can have an army with all but HQs and Troops? 3 combined armies detachments, giving you 6 HQs and potentially 18 Troops (not even using allies)

But wait, there's more. Each of those detachments can be from the same book...

 Perfect Organism wrote:
More than the randomness, I object to the way that the vast majority of playing time seems to have no effect on the outcome. By the end of turn two it seems that most games have been settled.

When i loose, unless i was facing a neck beard list, i can often tell you where i made the mistake.
Last tourni i went too, we lost one match because i didn't challenge my foes war boss in melee. Lost the match as a result.

Sometimes you win because you make a hail mary die roll, or loose because you just failed to roll that well. Most games outside of checkers and chess roll much the same way.

Diablix wrote:

Bah, honestly I don't get this.
I can't see why Ahriman or any ML3 Chaos Sorcerer should have more troubles in summoning daemons than a pathetic ML1 Herald. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Hope they'll fix that with specific FAQs for Chaos Sorcerers

In fairness the same argument could be said for Santic powers and the likes of Inquisitors from Codex Inquisition.
And a ML1 Herald knows infinitely more about the warp than any human. It does however give a Sorcerer from the Crimson Slaughter Supplement with the Prophet of the Voices relic a bit of an upgrade as he will now get a buff to summoning Daemons.

 streamdragon wrote:
I can't really read it well, does that say that a Leman Russ now has 5 HP?

Looks like it!

 streamdragon wrote:
I can't really read it well, does that say that a Leman Russ now has 5 HP?

I'm guessing 3HP?

**Edit- It is 3HP. Just zoomed in as close as possible.

not unless its BS 5 as well now, the number for BS and HP is definetly the same

Now to see if this HP buff is IOM only, or if anyone else is feeling the love....

Got my own opinion on that, but we'll see if they can surprise me

angelofvengeance wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
I can't really read it well, does that say that a Leman Russ now has 5 HP?

I'm guessing 3HP?

optometris wrote:not unless its BS 5 as well now, the number for BS and HP is definetly the same

Hm, true. Maybe it's 3

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
I can't really read it well, does that say that a Leman Russ now has 5 HP?

I'm guessing 3HP?

I agree, unless they are also BS 5 now as well.

Must be 3, they wouldn't change that from a codex just released would they ...?

Nah, must be a 3 -- see the side armour.

Adobe says it's 3

Yes, I hope Ahriman gets a faq for some Demonology goodness. There's multiple occasions of him summoning hordes of demons. 1st Apoc book, GK Codex (I think), and his cronies have no issues getting Lords of Change whenever they want..

but of course I bet GW will just overlook him and keep going, considering he will have an obsolete Chaos Artefact due to the new Witchfire rules.

 reds8n wrote:
Must be 3, they wouldn't change that from a codex just released would they ...?

Nah, must be a 3 -- see the side armour.

unless leman russ drivers have all learned how to do some sweet drifts across the battle field deflecting shots off their side armour 15

Sadly I doubt they can be bothered to actually change stats, special rules or points values - I really hope I am wrong and we get a comprehensive FAQ launch for 7th Ed - but that implies they are

1. prepared - unlike when the website changed.
2. Willing to actually take the time to look at any rules problems or interactions.

It is weird that my Raiders have the same Hull Points as my Leman Russ's but hey.......

Looking forward to seeing how having Adamantium Will on all Sororitas vehicles works with the new Psychic phase

So still snap fire with Ordnance so Russes are still poor unless they change the rules for Heavy vehicles.