Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Isn't it called Perils of the Warp for a reason rather than Boost of the Warp - I dont really see why there should be anything positive on the "bad news" chart - even WFB magic miscasts don't (yet) do that

Havent they always said how unpredictable the Warp is? Having one good effect that is probably obtained when the stars align doesnt really go against that. The rest of the table is probably still bad news

Yeah but the whole point is that is a "perils" table when bad things happen? Isn't it a bit like having a table for vehicle damage where you get a hull point back if you opponent rolls a 1?

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

Tyfus wrote:


"Immobilized results affect flyers differently now, they have a chance to immediately send it Crash and Burn. Coupled with Target Lock now serving a purpose on non-blast weapons, it ends up being a nice boost to the poor DA flyer."

But immobilized is now the "6" on the table, right? So really no change at all.

Actually it's basically a perk since you can't get V-locked

Man this release is looking worse as the veil is lifted. Still waiting to see it, but I am not surprised all the early acclaim fall flat. So potentially fliers are better, psychers get stronger the more they perils (seriously find me a non LD10 psycher that is taken seriously) and a vindicare and a grot still snap fire with consistently similar results

Spiritseer for Iyanden/Wraithguard lists, Warlocks for Seer Council Deathstar, Primaris Psyker

Spirit seers suck, and warlocks are not taken seriously, if they were you wouldn't need 8 of them i8n order to guarantee the two needed powers go off. The lynch pin is the farseers which are LD what again?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Yeah but the whole point is that is a "perils" table when bad things happen? Isn't it a bit like having a table for vehicle damage where you get a hull point back if you opponent rolls a 1?

It's slightly different in that your opponent probably didn't do anything to force the perils, so a positive result on the chart isn't really taking away from anything they did. I understand, and agree, that a table of "Bad Things" should be actual Bad Things but given the capricious way that the Warp is described (and the things that dwell in it), I'm okay with an occasional result not being completely Bad.

We'll just have to see how "occasional" it is.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Isn't it called Perils of the Warp for a reason rather than Boost of the Warp - I dont really see why there should be anything positive on the "bad news" chart - even WFB magic miscasts don't (yet) do that

Havent they always said how unpredictable the Warp is? Having one good effect that is probably obtained when the stars align doesnt really go against that. The rest of the table is probably still bad news

Yeah but the whole point is that is a "perils" table when bad things happen? Isn't it a bit like having a table for vehicle damage where you get a hull point back if you opponent rolls a 1?

The benefits of the warp are the powers that are being attempted. I have never heard of fortune coming from perils though I will admit I don't read every tidbit the black library dishes out.

@Red Corsair I don't disagree that perils should be all bad, I was just chuckling when you said something to the effect of "psykers will get more powerful every time they perils." You were, in fact, blowing that a bit out of proportion haha. Hopefully it will be a very slim chance of positive, very good chance of negative, and slight chance of utter doom.

The issue is, and again this is based on speculation, that in a d6 system that usually uses tables based on a pair at most of said dice. "the stars align" way more often then should be represented. Even if its on snake eyes, your telling me the stars align every thirty six times on average? Its fine in the fluff but hilariously stupid to add such content outside of RPG's. Just my 2 cents anyway.

I think it falls in line with forging the narrative disclaimer.

A random benefit from Perils is in line with their omgrandom approach to game design lately. Even Tyranids can get positive results from failing IB tests.

Remember that a lot of things need to line up for this positive effect to happen:
1) Perils has to occur in the first place, which apparently isn't possible on 1 charge dice and is 1/36 chance on 2.
2) The user has to roll the 'good result'
3) They will then need to pass a Ld test.

It's not going to happen every game.

Archibald_TK on Warseer wrote:
Crude explanation: You must manage as many successes on your dispel dice than your opponent did when casting the spell. Your target number on the die to qualify as a success is 6. Things like Adamantium Will or having a Higher level caster in the unit (or withing Hood range) each gives you a +1 to your roll.
If it's a blessing you are attempting to deny, you can no longer benefits from these +1 modifiers thus must hope for natural 6.

Blessings are still the best.

Edit: Also, Hello.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

Archibald_TK on Warseer wrote:
Crude explanation: You must manage as many successes on your dispel dice than your opponent did when casting the spell. Your target number on the die to qualify as a success is 6. Things like Adamantium Will or having a Higher level caster in the unit (or withing Hood range) each gives you a +1 to your roll.
If it's a blessing you are attempting to deny, you can no longer benefits from these +1 modifiers thus must hope for natural 6.

Blessings are still the best.

Edit: Also, Hello.

"Within range" makes me sad for Gloom Prisms and their tiny bubble.

 rabidguineapig wrote:
@Red Corsair I don't disagree that perils should be all bad, I was just chuckling when you said something to the effect of "psykers will get more powerful every time they perils." You were, in fact, blowing that a bit out of proportion haha. Hopefully it will be a very slim chance of positive, very good chance of negative, and slight chance of utter doom.

Fair enough, I was just thinking on an army wide scale. I play so many fething demon an eldar armies it basically skews the odds of it happening from once every few games to probably more then once every game. Again I have no idea what the final iteration will be, and your right, it may be nothing. But it's hard not to assume it will be poorly written given the design studios track record. Not being cynical, but being practical here. Every edition the studio tries to invent a new cinematic mechanic it's laced with holes and imbalance. I hope this in fact is a very minor hick up. I have a feeling however it will resemble the chaos boon table with LD altering the roles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 xttz wrote:
A random benefit from Perils is in line with their omgrandom approach to game design lately. Even Tyranids can get positive results from failing IB tests.

Remember that a lot of things need to line up for this positive effect to happen:
1) Perils has to occur in the first place, which apparently isn't possible on 1 charge dice and is 1/36 chance on 2.
2) The user has to roll the 'good result'
3) They will then need to pass a Ld test.

It's not going to happen every game.

Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that you forgot to account for the new disciplines and how they force perils on any double for none GK/CD meaning its possible to "fish" for effects that could be game altering. Who knows exactly how it will end up working, but it's safe to assume the studio wasn't accounting for people to fish for perils either. Maybe it's nothing, maybe this is another silly pit fall based on their, ham fist unneeded mechanics, approach they love taking. I won't hold my breath however.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 rabidguineapig wrote:
@Red Corsair I don't disagree that perils should be all bad, I was just chuckling when you said something to the effect of "psykers will get more powerful every time they perils." You were, in fact, blowing that a bit out of proportion haha. Hopefully it will be a very slim chance of positive, very good chance of negative, and slight chance of utter doom.

Fair enough, I was just thinking on an army wide scale. I play so many fething demon an eldar armies it basically skews the odds of it happening from once every few games to probably more then once every game. Again I have no idea what the final iteration will be, and your right, it may be nothing. But it's hard not to assume it will be poorly written given the design studios track record. Not being cynical, but being practical here. Every edition the studio tries to invent a new cinematic mechanic it's laced with holes and imbalance. I hope this in fact is a very minor hick up. I have a feeling however it will resemble the chaos boon table with LD altering the roles.

Lol I guess I'm with you there - I have absolutely no hope for the dozens of mechanics that will be ruined by the psychic phase even in the few armies I have myself. How/when will force weapons work? When will hammerhand be activated? How will the +3 LD to Tzeentch psychic tests be changed if at all? How will the various mechanics that affect DtW rolls be changed? There are some other DtW modifiers like 4D6 rolls that also need to be addressed, and I have no faith in GW to do any of that on day 1 of the release. Shadow in the warp also seems pretty useless now as well unless they FAQ it, as well as the handful I obviously am missing.

On a positive note, having to put the grimoire on a unit prior to activating forewarning but after the movement phase makes for quite the nerf to the Screamerstar. You can no longer see if you'll get a 2+++ (Unless these have been capped, but I somehow doubt that too) before moving into position or deciding to run away and hide. Spehss Chikin' seems to be unchanged though, he'll be chuckling with his apparently single grounding test per phase and a built in 4++.

Overall, I'm in wait and see mode because I think at least some of the things I've heard are positive and nothing else that is going to ruin the game for me in my meta. I do get the feeling games will be taking quite a bit longer in the near future, though.

The Ld things like tzeentch and SitW makes perfect sense if the whole LD to save against perils is a thing.

As well the 4d6 tau talisman can easily just add the free dice if targeted by powers within range.

Ether way anything that lets me attempt to counter blessings is a +1 in my books

 Alpharius wrote:

 Leth wrote:


Lol I had to quit the forums at one point for 6 months just because it was pretty bad and was actually negatively impacting my day to day. Negativity is contagious.

Good advice there, actually, but...

Have you checked out your avatar lately?!?

He gets more smiles than anything else, gotten a few PMs saying it made someone laugh or at least gotten a chuckle. Spreading positivity yo!

We still dont know what the roll is for grounding tests. If it is a 5+ instead of a 3+ now its better but its not all doom and gloom for non fliers.

We now have the potential to stop blessings where only space wolves had the ability before. A chance is better than no chance. Same with those armies with no psykers, they now have A chance to stop things. In addition the number of powers cast per caster has gone down significantly. What used to be 1 per mastery level will most likely be 1/2 or less per mastery level in casted powers with a guaranteed deny attempt.

Armys heavily reliant on casters are going to get fewer powers off and they are going to be less reliable. I dont see how that is the casting phase getting a huge boost.

 rabidguineapig wrote:
On a positive note, having to put the grimoire on a unit prior to activating forewarning but after the movement phase makes for quite the nerf to the Screamerstar. You can no longer see if you'll get a 2+++ (Unless these have been capped, but I somehow doubt that too) before moving into position or deciding to run away and hide. Spehss Chikin' seems to be unchanged though, he'll be chuckling with his apparently single grounding test per phase and a built in 4++.

That's an interesting point. I run a grimoire, but it's more to keep Fateweaver from dying. I'll sometimes use it on a DP though.

Overall I'm happy about the psychic phase, more due to my general tendency towards sloppy play. I constantly forget to use my psychic powers before starting to move something, and having it all occur in a single phase will help. I used to do the same thing with Flamers. I'd get so excited that I landed a Deep Strike where I wanted it that I'd immediately bust out the flamer template and start rolling wounds and just skip my entire Movement phase.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Isn't it called Perils of the Warp for a reason rather than Boost of the Warp - I dont really see why there should be anything positive on the "bad news" chart - even WFB magic miscasts don't (yet) do that

Havent they always said how unpredictable the Warp is? Having one good effect that is probably obtained when the stars align doesnt really go against that. The rest of the table is probably still bad news

Yeah but the whole point is that is a "perils" table when bad things happen? Isn't it a bit like having a table for vehicle damage where you get a hull point back if you opponent rolls a 1?

Precisely. Perils should always, always, always be a bad thing as you get punished for bad plays. If there even is one chance to get a good result, it's poor game design as it rewards bad plays. Jesus, this is game design 101. Like, really, really basic game design.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Isn't it called Perils of the Warp for a reason rather than Boost of the Warp - I dont really see why there should be anything positive on the "bad news" chart - even WFB magic miscasts don't (yet) do that

Havent they always said how unpredictable the Warp is? Having one good effect that is probably obtained when the stars align doesnt really go against that. The rest of the table is probably still bad news

Yeah but the whole point is that is a "perils" table when bad things happen? Isn't it a bit like having a table for vehicle damage where you get a hull point back if you opponent rolls a 1?

Precisely. Perils should always, always, always be a bad thing as you get punished for bad plays. If there even is one chance to get a good result, it's poor game design as it rewards bad plays. Jesus, this is game design 101. Like, really, really basic game design.

Except Perils isn't a result of a 'bad play', it's the result of a 'bad roll'.

A 'bad play' is leaving a unit in the wrong place, or being aggressive when you should be defensive. Attempting to use powers that you paid for, or that your entire army might be build around (Daemons for example) isn't a 'bad play'.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Isn't it called Perils of the Warp for a reason rather than Boost of the Warp - I dont really see why there should be anything positive on the "bad news" chart - even WFB magic miscasts don't (yet) do that

Havent they always said how unpredictable the Warp is? Having one good effect that is probably obtained when the stars align doesnt really go against that. The rest of the table is probably still bad news

Yeah but the whole point is that is a "perils" table when bad things happen? Isn't it a bit like having a table for vehicle damage where you get a hull point back if you opponent rolls a 1?

Precisely. Perils should always, always, always be a bad thing as you get punished for bad plays. If there even is one chance to get a good result, it's poor game design as it rewards bad plays. Jesus, this is game design 101. Like, really, really basic game design.

Yea dont know how rolling doubles equates to a bad play, its more bad luck.

Desubot wrote:The Ld things like tzeentch and SitW makes perfect sense if the whole LD to save against perils is a thing.

As well the 4d6 tau talisman can easily just add the free dice if targeted by powers within range.

Ether way anything that lets me attempt to counter blessings is a +1 in my books

True, some may still work but the Tzeentch one I'd really like to see modified. It was a good rule, especially for Pink Horrors and other low LD psychic shooting units, but now that everyone is on the exact same level it becomes pretty much pointless. I feel like a 3+ success instead of 4+ on psychic test dice might be a bit much, but I'd prefer if it was something more like that.

undertow wrote:

 rabidguineapig wrote:
On a positive note, having to put the grimoire on a unit prior to activating forewarning but after the movement phase makes for quite the nerf to the Screamerstar. You can no longer see if you'll get a 2+++ (Unless these have been capped, but I somehow doubt that too) before moving into position or deciding to run away and hide. Spehss Chikin' seems to be unchanged though, he'll be chuckling with his apparently single grounding test per phase and a built in 4++.

That's an interesting point. I run a grimoire, but it's more to keep Fateweaver from dying. I'll sometimes use it on a DP though.

Overall I'm happy about the psychic phase, more due to my general tendency towards sloppy play. I constantly forget to use my psychic powers before starting to move something, and having it all occur in a single phase will help. I used to do the same thing with Flamers. I'd get so excited that I landed a Deep Strike where I wanted it that I'd immediately bust out the flamer template and start rolling wounds and just skip my entire Movement phase.

I have pretty much only used grimoire on Fateweaver as well, and I doubt that strategy will change at all with the new edition. I was never particularly interested in running a screamerstar so that doesn't matter to me, and despite having far fewer instances of the unkillable Lord of Chance trucking his way into CC I think the change makes it much more of a tactical decision which is good.

I guess one could say ploughing too many dice into casting one specific power and therefore increasing your odds of perilling could be called "bad play" but I'd say that's a little harsh.

Of course, if the Perils table isn't sufficiently negative, that might actually become a tactic!

Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 Battlesong wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

Tyfus wrote:
Going from memory yes wounds/HP loss are here on the majority of effects, usually as the "better" effect that you get from a successful Ld test (results on the table read as "Take Ld test, success= suffers this, failure= suffers that).

Why do I see Shadows in the Warp not getting any change at all, since the Ld penalty would now have an actual (although pathetically minor) penalty for psykers?

Because doing anything else might be a boon to the Nids and we all know GW can't give the Nids anything since they are already Soooooo OP.......

If the grounding checks are as soft as rumors say... you'll be just fine

Unless like me you don't run FMCs, so grounding checks don't matter one iota.

I've got a message for you from GW. "Flying Circus is the only way we would like anyone to play Tyranids. That is why we made Hordes suck via Synapse, and MC's suck via removal of biomancy and Mycetic Spores. We can't get rid of Tyranids, but we can limit them to a mono-build. People didn't really get the hint, so we are changing vector strike to be D6 hits and AP2, and limiting grounding tests to 1 per turn. Also we are going to change the vehicle Pen table to make sure that Carnifexes can't deal with vehicle at all, and change the psychic phase so that Zoenthrope's pitiful ability to pop vehicles is nerfed. If you continue to stubbornly insist that you can play non-flying circus tyranids, we will release FAQs to nerf MC's and Hoards further until you take the hint. Are you ready for Toughness 4 Tyrannofexes?"

 ausYenLoWang wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Herzlos wrote:
The collectors edition hasn't sold out this time round?

sold out in aus in under a day

Hang on so the area famed for it's wailing and gnashing of teeth regarding regional pricing, who state wages are not really high there due to the cost of living etc is the first and only place to sell out of the ultra expensive edition

Ironically, the Aussie edition is priced at $360, which is actually slightly cheaper than the UK version on today's exchange rates!

SeanDrake wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Herzlos wrote:
The collectors edition hasn't sold out this time round?

sold out in aus in under a day

Hang on so the area famed for it's wailing and gnashing of teeth regarding regional pricing, who state wages are not really high there due to the cost of living etc is the first and only place to sell out of the ultra expensive edition

To be fair, wasn't the Australian price for the LE $360? Compared to the usual mark-up they get that's like Black Friday. Then there's the question of how many copies were allotted to Australia. Europe has 400 left, UK (incl. Scandinavia and Rest of the World) has 368, and North America has 416.

Deshkar where did you see that if I may ask?

 azreal13 wrote:
Ironically, the Aussie edition is priced at $360, which is actually slightly cheaper than the UK version on today's exchange rates!

It's $400 in Canada... which means with exchange rates it's cheaper to buy it from Australia... Whhhhat?!

tag8833 wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 Battlesong wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

Tyfus wrote:
Going from memory yes wounds/HP loss are here on the majority of effects, usually as the "better" effect that you get from a successful Ld test (results on the table read as "Take Ld test, success= suffers this, failure= suffers that).

Why do I see Shadows in the Warp not getting any change at all, since the Ld penalty would now have an actual (although pathetically minor) penalty for psykers?

Because doing anything else might be a boon to the Nids and we all know GW can't give the Nids anything since they are already Soooooo OP.......

If the grounding checks are as soft as rumors say... you'll be just fine

Unless like me you don't run FMCs, so grounding checks don't matter one iota.

I've got a message for you from GW. "Flying Circus is the only way we would like anyone to play Tyranids. That is why we made Hordes suck via Synapse, and MC's suck via removal of biomancy and Mycetic Spores. We can't get rid of Tyranids, but we can limit them to a mono-build. People didn't really get the hint, so we are changing vector strike to be D6 hits and AP2, and limiting grounding tests to 1 per turn. Also we are going to change the vehicle Pen table to make sure that Carnifexes can't deal with vehicle at all, and change the psychic phase so that Zoenthrope's pitiful ability to pop vehicles is nerfed. If you continue to stubbornly insist that you can play non-flying circus tyranids, we will release FAQs to nerf MC's and Hoards further until you take the hint. Are you ready for Toughness 4 Tyrannofexes?"

Why do you have to be right?

Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

Well, at least vehicles can breathe against smash. But letting it be AP2 even in normal attacks was the best thing about Smash

Darn, Riptides now care about personal space.

About VS, 1 AP2 Ignores Cover isn't that scary...

tag8833 wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 Battlesong wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

Tyfus wrote:
Going from memory yes wounds/HP loss are here on the majority of effects, usually as the "better" effect that you get from a successful Ld test (results on the table read as "Take Ld test, success= suffers this, failure= suffers that).

Why do I see Shadows in the Warp not getting any change at all, since the Ld penalty would now have an actual (although pathetically minor) penalty for psykers?

Because doing anything else might be a boon to the Nids and we all know GW can't give the Nids anything since they are already Soooooo OP.......

If the grounding checks are as soft as rumors say... you'll be just fine

Unless like me you don't run FMCs, so grounding checks don't matter one iota.

I've got a message for you from GW. "Flying Circus is the only way we would like anyone to play Tyranids. That is why we made Hordes suck via Synapse, and MC's suck via removal of biomancy and Mycetic Spores. We can't get rid of Tyranids, but we can limit them to a mono-build. People didn't really get the hint, so we are changing vector strike to be D6 hits and AP2, and limiting grounding tests to 1 per turn. Also we are going to change the vehicle Pen table to make sure that Carnifexes can't deal with vehicle at all, and change the psychic phase so that Zoenthrope's pitiful ability to pop vehicles is nerfed. If you continue to stubbornly insist that you can play non-flying circus tyranids, we will release FAQs to nerf MC's and Hoards further until you take the hint. Are you ready for Toughness 4 Tyrannofexes?"

Why you gotta be like that GW? Why can't I keep trucking with a carpet of gaunts and warriors? What's that? I can, but only if I drop 8 bucks on the Endless Swarm dataslate?

Deshkar wrote:
Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.
Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

Ignore Cover - No change.
ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

Telepathy Powers
Invisisbilty - makes others snapfire at you.
Shrouding - gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris.

pretty sure IC's have never been allowed to join MC.

does this mean no more buffmander and riptide combo?
Tau are being bullied a little!