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coredump wrote:

Hollismason wrote:


I like that I can now ally with myself and get an additional Annihilation barge if I want.

.

Nope. Ally detachment FOC requires being a different faction from the primary.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
Where are you guys missing that they can still take those allies in a battle forged army, they just cant deploy within 12 of each other.

And don't get within 6" during the game or risk going catotonic.

Where are you getting this at because multiple people have pointed out Tyranids allying with themselves.

 insaniak wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

The 'Dakka Dakka community' thinks no such thing. The opinions of individual posters here are a reflection of the opinions of those posters, not of the entirety of the community.



The complaints about all Imperials being able to ally are more to do with the imbalance created through this system rather than how it applies to the fluff. Sure, it's fluffy to allow Imperial Armies to all be Battle Brothers. But in a system where non-Imperial armies pretty much aren't Battle Brothers with anyone except themselves, that creates a fairly massive power divide.

I actually very much disagree that it is fluffy. Space Marines other than maybe ultras and fists view unmodified humans with cool neglect and don't really regard them as useful for much. IG treat Marines with varying degress of awe, fear, and jealousy. To say that the Space Wolves or Dark Angels and Inquisition have a close working relationship pretty much blatantly ignores the fluff. The simple catch all of "all imperials are bestest buddies" isn't fluffy at all. I'd say as a general rule (with some obvious exceptions) that the Inquisition, IG, and SOB might be BB to each other and in general Space Marines are to each other as well. Crossing between the two categories (Astartes and normal humans) is more accurately described as Allies of Convience IMO.

 warboss wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

The 'Dakka Dakka community' thinks no such thing. The opinions of individual posters here are a reflection of the opinions of those posters, not of the entirety of the community.



The complaints about all Imperials being able to ally are more to do with the imbalance created through this system rather than how it applies to the fluff. Sure, it's fluffy to allow Imperial Armies to all be Battle Brothers. But in a system where non-Imperial armies pretty much aren't Battle Brothers with anyone except themselves, that creates a fairly massive power divide.

I actually very much disagree that it is fluffy. Space Marines other than maybe ultras and fists view unmodified humans with cool neglect and don't really regard them as useful for much. IG treat Marines with varying degress of awe, fear, and jealousy. To say that the Space Wolves or Dark Angels and Inquisition have a close working relationship pretty much blatantly ignores the fluff. The simple catch all of "all imperials are bestest buddies" isn't fluffy at all. I'd say as a general rule (with some obvious exceptions) that the Inquisition, IG, and SOB might be BB to each other and in general Space Marines are to each other as well. Crossing between the two categories (Astartes and normal humans) is more accurately described as Allies of Convience IMO.

I think we're dealing with relativity here. Relative to all xenos and heretic factions, Imperial factions are best of friends. Before we had xenocidal space marines on better terms with xenos than Sisters of Battle. This new chart is much better.

coredump wrote:

Hollismason wrote:


I like that I can now ally with myself and get an additional Annihilation barge if I want.

.

Nope. Ally detachment FOC requires being a different faction from the primary.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
Where are you guys missing that they can still take those allies in a battle forged army, they just cant deploy within 12 of each other.

And don't get within 6" during the game or risk going catotonic.

That was not the complaint. It was that they could not take the models that they owned. There are still ways to play it and possibly make it work

 MWHistorian wrote:

I think we're dealing with relativity here. Relative to all xenos and heretic factions, Imperial factions are best of friends. Before we had xenocidal space marines on better terms with xenos than Sisters of Battle. This new chart is much better.

I agree that it is better but that isn't hard to do since it is like walking into a room with rotten food and spending time in a room filled with roadkill. It's obviously better but not pleasant. I still think most every Imperial/Xenos should be at best desperate allies when they do actually occasionally work together against a common enemy (like Tau and SM teaming up versus Nids... or IG and Eldar facing chaos) or come the apoc when they don't infamously team up.

coredump wrote:

Hollismason wrote:


I like that I can now ally with myself and get an additional Annihilation barge if I want.

.

Nope. Ally detachment FOC requires being a different faction from the primary.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
Where are you guys missing that they can still take those allies in a battle forged army, they just cant deploy within 12 of each other.

And don't get within 6" during the game or risk going catotonic.

from what was said earlier though, there was no limit on primary/secondary detachments, sure it comes with the HQ + Troop tax, BUT you can then field as many detachments as you have points to spend, so you COULD take 3 hq 6 troops and 9 HS if you so desired... there is no need to ally with yourself.

and remember the wording is now FACTION, not Codex. so IOM can take whatever it pleases from within the faction as allies or detachments. making their life much easier...

 warboss wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

The 'Dakka Dakka community' thinks no such thing. The opinions of individual posters here are a reflection of the opinions of those posters, not of the entirety of the community.



The complaints about all Imperials being able to ally are more to do with the imbalance created through this system rather than how it applies to the fluff. Sure, it's fluffy to allow Imperial Armies to all be Battle Brothers. But in a system where non-Imperial armies pretty much aren't Battle Brothers with anyone except themselves, that creates a fairly massive power divide.

I actually very much disagree that it is fluffy. Space Marines other than maybe ultras and fists view unmodified humans with cool neglect and don't really regard them as useful for much. IG treat Marines with varying degress of awe, fear, and jealousy. To say that the Space Wolves or Dark Angels and Inquisition have a close working relationship pretty much blatantly ignores the fluff. The simple catch all of "all imperials are bestest buddies" isn't fluffy at all. I'd say as a general rule (with some obvious exceptions) that the Inquisition, IG, and SOB might be BB to each other and in general Space Marines are to each other as well. Crossing between the two categories (Astartes and normal humans) is more accurately described as Allies of Convience IMO.

Im going to assume if a space marine regardless of faction showed up and said to a bunch of guardsman "Form up, im leading you into battle" ......im sure they will agree with him regardless of what their personal feelings are. If an Imperial Guard commander saw some Sisters hanging out and went up to them and said "stop being awesome over here and start being awesome while killing these xenos for me" they are probably going to follow him since he's a higher rank. Same goes for if an Inquisitor walked up to a bunch of Dark Angels, waved his Rosette in the faces and said "stop cutting yourself, we've got some heretics to face murder" they might grumble but im sure they are going to form up and follow him since he has the authority to do so. When it comes down to it i think all the Imperium armies respect the Chain-O-Command to a great degree and will follow any human of some rank or prestige even if grudgingly into battle, since that is what they are trained to do.

Now that dosent mean that this is a permanent alliance, it just means that for some reason or another certain imperial factions are in the same warzone and their combat elements are being tapped for the success of the campaign. If a Colonel needs anti-psyker support hes going to call command and ask for some sisters or request an inquisitor. As far as chapters working together regardless of whether or not they hate each other they will still fight like Pros on the battlefield until after the fighting has stopped. Just because the Sallies HATE the Marines Malevolent dosen't mean they aren't going to fight with them to stop the invasion of Armageddon.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
and remember the wording is now FACTION, not Codex. so IOM can take whatever it pleases from within the faction as allies or detachments. making their life much easier...

I don't think that the different parts of the Imperium are the same faction just because they use the same line on the allies matrix.

I also seem to remember something about allied detachments having to come from a different faction to your primary detachment.

Just saw the allies matrix, am liking it a lot. Seems closer to the fluff than the last one, and I like that all Imperials are battle brothers with each other now. Opens up some very cool allying options for my Sisters.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
and remember the wording is now FACTION, not Codex. so IOM can take whatever it pleases from within the faction as allies or detachments. making their life much easier...

I don't think that the different parts of the Imperium are the same faction just because they use the same line on the allies matrix.

I also seem to remember something about allied detachments having to come from a different faction to your primary detachment.

They aren't, it says as much on the leaked page. "Faction" == "Codex title" for now. "Armies of the Imperium" (the entry on the allies matrix) is made up of the imperial factions, it isn't a faction in and of itself.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
and remember the wording is now FACTION, not Codex. so IOM can take whatever it pleases from within the faction as allies or detachments. making their life much easier...

I don't think that the different parts of the Imperium are the same faction just because they use the same line on the allies matrix.

I also seem to remember something about allied detachments having to come from a different faction to your primary detachment.

but your secondary detachment does not have to be allies it can be from the same faction, and allies need to be faction/alliable. if i remember reading something right, and i dont remember there being a limit on the number of allies, or add to taht you can take whatever formations you like, and guess who has the most of them... yep IOM. so that further makes their life easier.

edit: so referenceing the above then, we have factions ( codecies) but they in their allies chart make IOM all in one. so for me from taht i see the option for Sm to take say GK allies, with a IG formation and has the limit on number of detachments there yet? because last i saw we could take say 1 SM primary, multiple allied and as many formations as you please.

 Troike wrote:
Just saw the allies matrix, am liking it a lot. Seems closer to the fluff than the last one, and I like that all Imperials are battle brothers with each other now. Opens up some very cool allying options for my Sisters.

All I see it Deathstars taking a cheap wound soak in St. Celestine and using her for hit &r run while stacking priests with the Litanies of Faith.

So Padadins, Centurionstars, TH/SS termies, etc. with Hit&Run on a durable gal with reroll everything in close combat automatically, forgoing the new psychic power phase. Pile that into a LRC, since the rumor stats battle bros can ride dirty in their pals vehicles... boom.

So basically, Squad of Paladins w/ Psycannons + Warding Staves in LRC, w/ 2 Priests, St Celestine, and Draigo. Burst out and move from combat to combat with rerollable 2+ armor / 2++ invulnerable. Break out, shoot your target down, club them with staves, rinse, repeat. Break apart in the back field with Draigo to cause double havoc. Include an Inquisitor or Tech Marine for grenade fun. Make sure a banner is in there so you auto-pass your Force Weapon checks. Ta-da, forgone the entire psychic phase and you can reap all the benefits.

It's 1K of points, sure, but support it with Exorcists, Dominions, and 20 girl sister squads camping objectives... Have some fun...

Deathstar 40k is dead, long live deathstar 40k.

So Grey Knights may be competitive now?

That Celestine/Draigo combo is an abomination in my eyes.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
So Grey Knights may be competitive now?

I did well with a Draigowing throughout 6E. Just sucked against Gravspam White Scars/Centurionstars. A 20pt+ marine with standard 3+ armor will continue to be kinda crappy, though.

Also, what's the big news on Warding Staves?

A lot of people saying they got buffed.

Puscifer wrote:
That Celestine/Draigo combo is an abomination in my eyes.

Great, I'll be running it very soon.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Puscifer wrote:
Also, what's the big news on Warding Staves?

A lot of people saying they got buffed.

You can now put SoB/IG priests into units of Grey Knights. They have an ability called War Hymns, one of which allows rerolled failed armor/invuln saves. Staves give a 2++ save in close combat. If you take the SoB priests with Litanies of Faith, they automatically pass War Hymns tests for their unit.

Hence that terrible unit inside of a LRC. Also, add in an Inquisitor with the Liber Heresius. Now it's a SCOUTING Land Raider Crusader.

Puscifer wrote:
Also, what's the big news on Warding Staves?

A lot of people saying they got buffed.

Throw in a priest for re-roll savfes.

 generalchaos34 wrote:
When it comes down to it i think all the Imperium armies respect the Chain-O-Command to a great degree and will follow any human of some rank or prestige even if grudgingly into battle, since that is what they are trained to do.

That is not how the Imperium's chain of command works. All three branches are defined by treason, and the Imperium's attempts to prevent such treason in the future. It's why there are only a thousand Space Marines in a Chapter, why the Sisters and Imperial Guard rely on the Imperial Navy for transport, why the Imperial Army became the Imperial Guard. The Inquisition has the authority to boss everyone around, but anyone else should be a step below Battle Brothers at best.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Just saw the allies matrix, am liking it a lot. Seems closer to the fluff than the last one, and I like that all Imperials are battle brothers with each other now. Opens up some very cool allying options for my Sisters.

All I see it Deathstars taking a cheap wound soak in St. Celestine and using her for hit &r run while stacking priests with the Litanies of Faith.

So Padadins, Centurionstars, TH/SS termies, etc. with Hit&Run on a durable gal with reroll everything in close combat automatically, forgoing the new psychic power phase. Pile that into a LRC, since the rumor stats battle bros can ride dirty in their pals vehicles... boom.

So basically, Squad of Paladins w/ Psycannons + Warding Staves in LRC, w/ 2 Priests, St Celestine, and Draigo. Burst out and move from combat to combat with rerollable 2+ armor / 2++ invulnerable. Break out, shoot your target down, club them with staves, rinse, repeat. Break apart in the back field with Draigo to cause double havoc. Include an Inquisitor or Tech Marine for grenade fun. Make sure a banner is in there so you auto-pass your Force Weapon checks. Ta-da, forgone the entire psychic phase and you can reap all the benefits.

It's 1K of points, sure, but support it with Exorcists, Dominions, and 20 girl sister squads camping objectives... Have some fun...

Please don't do that. Don't talk about it, don't think about it. Awful.

 Thokt wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Just saw the allies matrix, am liking it a lot. Seems closer to the fluff than the last one, and I like that all Imperials are battle brothers with each other now. Opens up some very cool allying options for my Sisters.

All I see it Deathstars taking a cheap wound soak in St. Celestine and using her for hit &r run while stacking priests with the Litanies of Faith.

So Padadins, Centurionstars, TH/SS termies, etc. with Hit&Run on a durable gal with reroll everything in close combat automatically, forgoing the new psychic power phase. Pile that into a LRC, since the rumor stats battle bros can ride dirty in their pals vehicles... boom.

So basically, Squad of Paladins w/ Psycannons + Warding Staves in LRC, w/ 2 Priests, St Celestine, and Draigo. Burst out and move from combat to combat with rerollable 2+ armor / 2++ invulnerable. Break out, shoot your target down, club them with staves, rinse, repeat. Break apart in the back field with Draigo to cause double havoc. Include an Inquisitor or Tech Marine for grenade fun. Make sure a banner is in there so you auto-pass your Force Weapon checks. Ta-da, forgone the entire psychic phase and you can reap all the benefits.

It's 1K of points, sure, but support it with Exorcists, Dominions, and 20 girl sister squads camping objectives... Have some fun...

Please don't do that. Don't talke about it, don't think about. Awful.

#Forgingthenarrative

I put a Paladin playing Yu-Gi-Oh wearing fluorescent yellow armor with green tinting on the table.

I take my narratives dead fething seriously.

 Leth wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Also, what's the big news on Warding Staves?

A lot of people saying they got buffed.

Throw in a priest for re-roll savfes.

Now that's brilliant. Perverse, but brilliant.

As for Centurionstar, how's that working out for people?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Also, what's the big news on Warding Staves?

A lot of people saying they got buffed.

Throw in a priest for re-roll savfes.

Now that's brilliant. Perverse, but brilliant.

As for Centurionstar, how's that working out for people?

 TheKbob wrote:
I put a Paladin playing Yu-Gi-Oh wearing fluorescent yellow armor with green tinting on the table.

I take my narratives dead fething seriously.

I like the cut of your jib.

 TheKbob wrote:

You can now put SoB/IG priests into units of Grey Knights. They have an ability called War Hymns, one of which allows rerolled failed armor/invuln saves. Staves give a 2++ save in close combat. If you take the SoB priests with Litanies of Faith, they automatically pass War Hymns tests for their unit.

Hence that terrible unit inside of a LRC. Also, add in an Inquisitor with the Liber Heresius. Now it's a SCOUTING Land Raider Crusader.

So like Screamerstar, but without any pesky rolling to see if you get your rerollable 2++ or enemy denying you during the psychic phase.

 Blacksails wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I put a Paladin playing Yu-Gi-Oh wearing fluorescent yellow armor with green tinting on the table.

I take my narratives dead fething seriously.

I like the cut of your jib.

Summon Exodia on the dual disk.

No half-bummed narratives in my house; thank you, good sah!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mavnas wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

You can now put SoB/IG priests into units of Grey Knights. They have an ability called War Hymns, one of which allows rerolled failed armor/invuln saves. Staves give a 2++ save in close combat. If you take the SoB priests with Litanies of Faith, they automatically pass War Hymns tests for their unit.

Hence that terrible unit inside of a LRC. Also, add in an Inquisitor with the Liber Heresius. Now it's a SCOUTING Land Raider Crusader.

So like Screamerstar, but without any pesky rolling to see if you get your rerollable 2++ or enemy denying you during the psychic phase.

Correct. But only in close combat. Hence the LRC and Hit & Run abuse, assuming they didn't nerf Hit & Run like they should have.

I fully expect some errata to come out regarding this new combo.

I can't see it sticking, it's too powerful.

Puscifer wrote:
I fully expect some errata to come out regarding this new combo.

I can't see it sticking, it's too powerful.

You are joking, right?

 TheKbob wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
I fully expect some errata to come out regarding this new combo.

I can't see it sticking, it's too powerful.

You are joking, right?

Digs out Paladins and Priests.

Of course.