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coredump wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Woah that is a huge fething nerf to Flying Monstrous creatures.

Like that's Minimum 3rd turn charge.


feth you Bloodthirster.

Consider the fewer number of grounding tests and the fact that it can move as jump infantry turn 1 for a turn 2 assault. Quit being instantly negative without considering the whole picture.

Most of the resiliency of any FMC is the Hard to Hit rule from Swooping, once it is forced to Glide for a turn first, it tends to get shot up and killed.

Further, one of the big benefits of FMCs is having the option, and your opponent must take that into account. Now the opponent *knows* he is safe from assault.

Big nerf....

Yes, there is added resiliency *while swooping*....

Interestingly though, if you're grounded you can still assault after. Which means, don't shoot at the angry monster or you just may die...

 Xerics wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

coredump wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:

 zammerak wrote:

 Xerics wrote:
I am reading some of these posts and seeing "No Assaults at all on turn 1" and they are saying they can run up into your face on their turn one and then on your turn one you can't assault them? If this is the case then Some fast assaulty Deathstars got a little bit better.

Didn't think about it like that, unless your assaulty death star wants to hit them because they are now close enough

Only scout cannot charge game turn 1, inflitrate cannot charge their first turn, couldnt see any other restrictions.

Well that pretty much settles my problem with Khornedogs...

Scouts can't charge on game turn 1 currently. No change there. The nerf was to infiltrators. Limiting "first turn" into "first game turn"

Which means i could roll up in a buffed seerstar on turn one to your face and on your turn you wouldn't be allowed to assault me even if I was 1" away from your face? Then on my turn 2 I rebuff as much as possible and get the first assaults out of the way killing off the best unit I could turbo boost into? Makes it seem like whomever gets the first turn gets a distinct advantage.

You are misunderstanding. Scouting units can't charge - they can still get assaulted if they move close enough to an enemy that deployed normally.

 jifel wrote:

coredump wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Woah that is a huge fething nerf to Flying Monstrous creatures.

Like that's Minimum 3rd turn charge.


feth you Bloodthirster.

Consider the fewer number of grounding tests and the fact that it can move as jump infantry turn 1 for a turn 2 assault. Quit being instantly negative without considering the whole picture.

Most of the resiliency of any FMC is the Hard to Hit rule from Swooping, once it is forced to Glide for a turn first, it tends to get shot up and killed.

Further, one of the big benefits of FMCs is having the option, and your opponent must take that into account. Now the opponent *knows* he is safe from assault.

Big nerf....

Yes, there is added resiliency *while swooping*....

Interestingly though, if you're grounded you can still assault after. Which means, don't shoot at the angry monster or you just may die...

So does this mean FMC's have to spend an entire turn on the ground prior to assaulting and can't move 18" followed by an assault from the air? Seems like a good thing to me.

well looks like I'll have to take be'lakor with my thirtser now, I'll swoop belk, and invisibility the thirster. I'll live with that. no rage quit yet.

 tomjoad wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
I think it's really interesting that if you look at the changes, they're almost specifically made to depower some of the top armies.

Flying Circus kind of got a nerf.

Seerstar kind of got a nerf.

Screamer Star got a Nerf

Buffcommander on Riptides got a nerf.

Kind of interesting.

Tyranids got nerfed... Collateral Damage?

Skyblight Tyranids would have had us begging for a nerf within a few months. The FMC nerf just gets it out of the way early. Heading off problems before they become problems is good game design, so that is at least one thing GW have done right.

Did they need to nerf swarlord, walkrants, mawlocs, trygons, tervigons, tyrannofexes and other MCs to fix skyblight?

Smash being 1 attack is huge. The pen table needing a 7 is huge. TMCs seem to have taken it hard with the nerf bat. The scary world destroyers are going to have a rough time popping a rhino in close combat.

MarkyMark wrote:
Just got the book, quite interesting small changes, annoyed that terrify no longer removes fearless though. I have wrote a few things I have noticed if anyone wants to read

Probably answered by now, but, hey.

Do we have confirmation on Swarms being scoring yay or nay?

Do we have confirmation on Jump Infantry, Jet Infantry, or FMCs having Jink saves?

tag8833 wrote:

 tomjoad wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
I think it's really interesting that if you look at the changes, they're almost specifically made to depower some of the top armies.

Flying Circus kind of got a nerf.

Seerstar kind of got a nerf.

Screamer Star got a Nerf

Buffcommander on Riptides got a nerf.

Kind of interesting.

Tyranids got nerfed... Collateral Damage?

Skyblight Tyranids would have had us begging for a nerf within a few months. The FMC nerf just gets it out of the way early. Heading off problems before they become problems is good game design, so that is at least one thing GW have done right.

Did they need to nerf swarlord, walkrants, mawlocs, trygons, tervigons, tyrannofexes and other MCs to fix skyblight?

Smash being 1 attack is huge. The pen table needing a 7 is huge. TMCs seem to have taken it hard with the nerf bat. The scary world destroyers are going to have a rough time popping a rhino in close combat.

Oh, I see. None of that is really that big a deal, so this isn't something I care about. PM me in a year when you see I was right and I'll quietly accept the recognition.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So if you fail to cast a power, then anyone else who has that power in your army can't cast it that turn? Please tell me that's wrong.

Weren't you "done?"

Or did you just say that for effect? I mean there is a misconception you seem to have that some people seem to share in believing that nothing has improved at all. Well, allow me to put this way. The changes to vehicles alone are already a massive improvement on the idiocy of MC's compared to vehicles durability issue, which may just have single handedly taken my entire Space Marine mechanized army off a dusty shelf.

You know, you have a nasty habit of randomly jumping on posters with very strongly worded, flirting with impolite, posts for no apparent reason.

I hope you start getting more hugs, grow out of it or do whatever you need to be 'done' with it, or I suspect Dakka may start to become 'done' with you.

tag8833 wrote:

 tomjoad wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
I think it's really interesting that if you look at the changes, they're almost specifically made to depower some of the top armies.

Flying Circus kind of got a nerf.

Seerstar kind of got a nerf.

Screamer Star got a Nerf

Buffcommander on Riptides got a nerf.

Kind of interesting.

Tyranids got nerfed... Collateral Damage?

Skyblight Tyranids would have had us begging for a nerf within a few months. The FMC nerf just gets it out of the way early. Heading off problems before they become problems is good game design, so that is at least one thing GW have done right.

Did they need to nerf swarlord, walkrants, mawlocs, trygons, tervigons, tyrannofexes and other MCs to fix skyblight?

Smash being 1 attack is huge. The pen table needing a 7 is huge. TMCs seem to have taken it hard with the nerf bat. The scary world destroyers are going to have a rough time popping a rhino in close combat.

You could always not use smash and get your full attacks and glance a rhino to death. S6 MC's (7 with certain wargear) with 5 attacks on the charge against armor 10 3 hull points. If you don't glance it to death in one or 2 turns your doing it wrong or the dice gods hate you. They made vehicles a little more durable which was needed. In 6th if you weren't playing eldar or AV14 your vehicles crumbled to dust in no time. It means you actually need anti tank weapons to be anti tank... OMG WHAT A CONCEPT!

H.B.M.C. wrote:So if you fail to cast a power, then anyone else who has that power in your army can't cast it that turn? Please tell me that's wrong.

WrentheFaceless wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So if you fail to cast a power, then anyone else who has that power in your army can't cast it that turn? Please tell me that's wrong.

I dont think its the army, but anyone in that unit that can also cast that power

puma713 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So if you fail to cast a power, then anyone else who has that power in your army can't cast it that turn? Please tell me that's wrong.

I think he said just in that unit. So, if someone in a unit fails, then that anyone else in that unit cannot cast it. Others units can.

Xerics wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So if you fail to cast a power, then anyone else who has that power in your army can't cast it that turn? Please tell me that's wrong.

No just in the same unit. So warlocks can't keep trying to cast the same spells if one of their bros gets denied.

Angelic wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So if you fail to cast a power, then anyone else who has that power in your army can't cast it that turn? Please tell me that's wrong.

That's wrong. It's just the unit, not the army.

So, to be clear....it's just the unit, not the army?

tag8833 wrote:
[Smash being 1 attack is huge. The pen table needing a 7 is huge. TMCs seem to have taken it hard with the nerf bat. The scary world destroyers are going to have a rough time popping a rhino in close combat.

Those big scary nasty WS3 I2 A3 TMC that can be felled by the MIGHTY lasgun, sure did get balanced, boy, were they far too powerful before.

Sarcasm.

Wakshaani wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
Just got the book, quite interesting small changes, annoyed that terrify no longer removes fearless though. I have wrote a few things I have noticed if anyone wants to read

Probably answered by now, but, hey.

Do we have confirmation on Swarms being scoring yay or nay?

Do we have confirmation on Jump Infantry, Jet Infantry, or FMCs having Jink saves?

I don't know about Swarms but Jump and Jet Infantry were confirmed to not have Jink.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

coredump wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:

 zammerak wrote:

 Xerics wrote:
I am reading some of these posts and seeing "No Assaults at all on turn 1" and they are saying they can run up into your face on their turn one and then on your turn one you can't assault them? If this is the case then Some fast assaulty Deathstars got a little bit better.

Didn't think about it like that, unless your assaulty death star wants to hit them because they are now close enough

Only scout cannot charge game turn 1, inflitrate cannot charge their first turn, couldnt see any other restrictions.

Well that pretty much settles my problem with Khornedogs...

Scouts can't charge on game turn 1 currently. No change there. The nerf was to infiltrators. Limiting "first turn" into "first game turn"

In 6E infiltrators and scouts can't assault first player turn. In 7E Scouts can't charge first game turn.

tag8833 wrote:

Skyblight Tyranids would have had us begging for a nerf within a few months. The FMC nerf just gets it out of the way early. Heading off problems before they become problems is good game design, so that is at least one thing GW have done right.

Did they need to nerf swarlord, walkrants, mawlocs, trygons, tervigons, tyrannofexes and other MCs to fix skyblight?

Smash being 1 attack is huge. The pen table needing a 7 is huge. TMCs seem to have taken it hard with the nerf bat. The scary world destroyers are going to have a rough time popping a rhino in close combat.

 stonehorse wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
[Smash being 1 attack is huge. The pen table needing a 7 is huge. TMCs seem to have taken it hard with the nerf bat. The scary world destroyers are going to have a rough time popping a rhino in close combat.

Those big scary nasty WS3 I2 A3 TMC that can be felled by the MIGHTY lasgun, sure did get balanced, boy, were they far too powerful before.

Sarcasm.

TMC didn't lose their effectiveness against infantry. They are just not able to one shot vehicles just like scatter lasers can't one shot rhinos anymore. Quit crying about your TMC's. The new damage chart effects everyone equally.

 DireAvenger20 wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
Just got the book, quite interesting small changes, annoyed that terrify no longer removes fearless though. I have wrote a few things I have noticed if anyone wants to read

Probably answered by now, but, hey.

Do we have confirmation on Swarms being scoring yay or nay?

Do we have confirmation on Jump Infantry, Jet Infantry, or FMCs having Jink saves?

I don't know about Swarms but Jump and Jet Infantry were confirmed to not have Jink.

He said that as far as he could see, Swarms did not have a scoring restriction. So, inconclusive at the moment.

 Xerics wrote:
Well if the seerstar got nerfed so badly ill just have to use all the points they cost me and throw in 2 more wraithknights. They are still have decent guns and the smash attack never really mattered due to them being STR10 in the first place so no big loss there. I had only been using 1 but now there is no reason for me not to bring out the other 2 from the foam.

Chill out. Re-read markymark's posts about how 1) casting works and 2) denial works, specifically the example of needing 5 6s to neuter a power successfully cast with 5 dice and the needing straight 6s to deny blessings.
How many mastery levels do you have in that unit? In your entire army? If you want your stealthy powers to go off, they can. You'll just have to throw more dice at them.

 Xerics wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
[Smash being 1 attack is huge. The pen table needing a 7 is huge. TMCs seem to have taken it hard with the nerf bat. The scary world destroyers are going to have a rough time popping a rhino in close combat.

Those big scary nasty WS3 I2 A3 TMC that can be felled by the MIGHTY lasgun, sure did get balanced, boy, were they far too powerful before.

Sarcasm.

TMC didn't lose their effectiveness against infantry. They are just not able to one shot vehicles just like scatter lasers can't one shot rhinos anymore. Quit crying about your TMC's. The new damage chart effects everyone equally.

The problem isn't the damage chart, that was a good change. The problem is the change to Smash Attack, that is a *huge* nerf... and we really *can't* do anything at range. We have to spend 2-3 turns trying to chase down a vehicle, and now must spend 2-3 turns trying to kill it.

Not even sure what Nids or Demons will do if they see 2+ Land raiders....

Turbo boosting no longer grants a bonus to Jink.

 Xerics wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
[Smash being 1 attack is huge. The pen table needing a 7 is huge. TMCs seem to have taken it hard with the nerf bat. The scary world destroyers are going to have a rough time popping a rhino in close combat.

Those big scary nasty WS3 I2 A3 TMC that can be felled by the MIGHTY lasgun, sure did get balanced, boy, were they far too powerful before.

Sarcasm.

TMC didn't lose their effectiveness against infantry. They are just not able to one shot vehicles just like scatter lasers can't one shot rhinos anymore. Quit crying about your TMC's. The new damage chart effects everyone equally.

Please remember that Tyranids now have no ranged attacks that can fit the role of anti tank, sure we can strip hull points off with weight of numbers, but we have no ranged attacks that can one hit kill a vehicle with armour 13+. Combat is our only way to deal with such things, and now it is made worse. When the Codex came out we lost a lot, and now we are losing more... it just feels like GW have no idea what to do with Tyranids, If the losses were accompanied by a meaningful boost to balance it out, that would be fine. However we don't have that.

Sure we will have no issue dealing with armour 12, due to Devourers with Brainleech worms,

As for being good against infantry, I wish.

For those who have it now. Are psykers always trying to get 4+ on a die to cast a power, or does anything modify that?

 gr1m_dan wrote:
Turbo boosting no longer grants a bonus to Jink.

Source?

4+ all the time.

 gr1m_dan wrote:
4+ all the time.

Deny the Witch depends on what is in the unit to nullify.

Source indeed

if you has the books hopefully you can spill some more beans.
Vehicle type and shooting restrictions from moving?

 gr1m_dan wrote:
4+ all the time.

Any changes to Hit & Run and Skilled Rider?

Nids don't even have good access to ranged S7. No, exocrine doesn't count as it's a POS.

gr1m_dan 59239b2d99de29a60da7a3c6e70e72b4b.jpg wrote:Turbo boosting no longer grants a bonus to Jink.

But I think that Jink is now a straight 4+. Not a bad change, as it can sometimes get hard to remember which units/vehicles boosted/moved flat out in the previous turn.

When Mark is back, can someone ask if the Conjuration spell type prevents the newly summoned units from charging straight out? It will probably influence which "elementals" I build for my Farseer first.

At work in the morning!

Not long guys.

.

At work in the morning!

Not long guys.

Thanks for that useful to the discussion comment?

But I think that Jink is now a straight 4+. Not a bad change, as it can sometimes get hard to remember which units/vehicles boosted/moved flat out in the previous turn.

When Mark is back, can someone ask if the Conjuration spell type prevents the newly summoned units from charging straight out? It will probably influence which "elementals" I build for my Farseer first.

Is it straight worse because it's not like you gain a 4+. They changed jink to PRIOR to the enemy rolling To Hit rolls you need to declare jink, and then you get a 4+ but can only fire snapshots next turn. That's a massive nerf for all non-flyers

I'm loving this. All the things that cost me my last game against FMC daemons is GONE! Fighting chances are back!