40k 7th Edition release 24th may - All info in 1st post, psychic power cards added (5/21)

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**sparrox**

Disappointed with my Nids as is. All this new info is even worse. Codex psychic powers are rubbish except 2 not worth the risk that now comes with them. New warlord traits all 3 lists have practical uses, Nids are situational and even the good are weak in comparison. And D weapons. Where is the love for Nids. Best looking army, awesome miniatures, rules slapped together in an afternoon.

**Cryptek of Awesome**

jamesk1973 wrote:

Also, looks like 7th is shaping up to be the "psyker" edition.

Welcome to 8th edition Fantasy-K.

Except in Fantasy, allies are an optional appendix rule and Unbound isn't a rule, it's just called 'messing around with friends'.

**tetrisphreak**

Colpicklejar wrote:
jamesk1973 wrote:
So....assault armies are still getting the shaft.

Random assault distance and overwatch fire will continue to cause failed assaults but by golly we get to do TWO hull points of damage if our attack results in a penetrating hit!

smh

Also, looks like 7th is shaping up to be the "psyker" edition.

Overwatch is unchanged and charges are still random, but I think the shape of the game as a whole is lending itself to more aggressive play, which should make assault a more viable option.

Objectives are going to be out in the open (at least in theory); armies are only further incentivized to hoof it to them with the new tac cards.

But I'm a visionless microbe so it could play it out in an entirely different fashion.

That's exactly it - objectives are plonked down before sides get picked. A player weighting one side or the other with objectives would be shooting themselves in the foot half the time.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

mercury14 wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:
Nope. Get behind walls, other models (25% obscured necessary) or bring a venomthrope along.

This makes no sense. No area terrain....

So Guardians have to just save against AP5 bolt guns with their 5+ armor save most of the time?

I just said ruins (4+) and craters (6+) have specific rules for standing in them. Why is that hard to grasp?

**coredump**

Leth wrote:
I honestly dont see the FMC spam armies that basically required fateweaver to be as big of a thing. Also I just ignore fateweaver most games, he does not actually do much damage and his buffing ability is mediocre.

Especially with the changes to FMC I really dont see it being much of a problem.

You mean the change where FLyrants need to give the opponent a 1-turn warning before assaulting? And be gliding to make it easy to kill the flyrant?
Or the change where Crones and flyrants have an all but useless Vector Strike?

Yes, FMCs are more resilient...but their offense has been nerfed so badly that no one will care that they are flying around.

Nidzilla will be just fine, you just have to play it differently. No reduced charges for terrain, have the ability to buy lots of cover. Everything is scoring so its easy to play to objectives and just bum rush with a crap ton of monstrous creatures and just see them get through it all.

I love the 'just learn to play' posts.... TMCs live an die by cover saves... with only 3+ save and no invulns, they need cover saves or they just get blown off the table.

Ability to take multiple force org charts as long as you get minimum troops. So for every two troops and one HQ you take you get a full org worth of things you can take(so three elites, three heavys, etc)

Yes, we are reading the same thread, we know the new rules.... so now we can take more of the same models that have been so heavily nerfed.... the point it that they have been heavily nerfed.

**MadmanMSU**

Leth wrote:
So my Inquisition deathcult assassins/crusaders/priest squad in land raider crusader might actually see tabletime with coteaz.......Sweeeeeeet throw in a mystic for dat warcharge and go to town.

Yep. Here's my hilarious first pass at GK. Grav guns will ruin this list, but its gonna be fun to play.

Coteaz
6x Deathcult Assassins
4x Crusaders
Storm Raven w/ Bolters and Psyammo

10x Purifers with Halberds and Psyammo
Storm Raven w/ Bolters and Psyammo

Dreadknight w/ Sword, Flamer, and Teleporter
Dreadknight w/ Sword, Flamer, and Teleporter
Dreadknight w/ Sword, Flamer, and Teleporter

EVERYTHING IS SCORING, HAHAHAHA

**mercury14**

tetrisphreak wrote:

I just said ruins (4+) and craters (6+) have specific rules for standing in them. Why is that hard to grasp?

Lots of maps at tournaments, cons, etc don't have ruins or craters. They have trees, rocks, etc. I guess we all need to go out and buy ruins?

Just seems bizarre. What's gained by not having area terrain?

**Mij'aan**

Wait, Wait.
Are you actually telling me I can ally my Tyranids and my Tau? And use both full force organization charts.

...?

I just don't even...

**Super Newb**

Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
jamesk1973 wrote:

Also, looks like 7th is shaping up to be the "psyker" edition.

Welcome to 8th edition Fantasy-K.

Did you guys miss the charts with chance of success and chance of perils? To me, overall, it is pretty clear that psykers got a nerf rather than a buff.

**don_mondo**

mercury14 wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:
Nope. Get behind walls, other models (25% obscured necessary) or bring a venomthrope along.

This makes no sense. No area terrain....

So Guardians have to just save against AP5 bolt guns with their 5+ armor save most of the time?

That, or buy the GW produced terrain that has specific cover values assigned. Hell, well over half of my terrain just became obsolete.

**Co'tor Shas**

Mij'aan wrote:
Wait, Wait.
Are you actually telling me I can ally my Tyranids and my Tau? And use both full force organization charts.

...?

I just don't even...

Tauranids!

**Sasori**

We will see how this Shakes out, but things aren't looking grand for my Tyranids.

Anyone see the Chariot Rules yet?

**Leth**

rigeld2 wrote:
Leth wrote:
Nidzilla will be just fine, you just have to play it differently. No reduced charges for terrain, have the ability to buy lots of cover.

Buy what cover? I haven't seen anything about purchasing terrain (anything new anyway)

Everything is scoring so its easy to play to objectives and just bum rush with a crap ton of monstrous creatures and just see them get through it all.

Apparently my opponents are very good at dealing with a bunch of T6 wounds because just bum rushing without cover means I lose - guaranteed.

Venomthropes to spice. Flying tyrants are still really good. Ability to take multiple force org charts as long as you get minimum troops. So for every two troops and one HQ you take you get a full org worth of things you can take(so three elites, three heavys, etc)

And Troops isn't a place where I like to devote a lot of points... you know - Nidzilla and all that. In addition, the Force Org wasn't a limiter for me (not really anyway) so that's a pointless thing to bring up.

But whatever - apparently it's all rosy for MCs even with the Smash nerf meaning only Carnifexes having any chance to kill a vehicle (including Dreads), loss of cover saves (so zero save against anti-tank weapons) and the FMC assault nerf.

You can buy venomthropes for cover as well as grenades. With enough elite slots you can buy them one each without losing out. two units of 10 termagaunts now opens up everything so whats that 100 points to get 3 of every other slot? Yea not seeing a lot of points spent in troops to make it work. In addition you can spam zoanthropes now for easy synapse and some of the cheapest access to 2 warp charges.

two x flying hive tyrants with double leech
3x venomthrope
2x zoanthrope
4x 10 man termagaunts
7x carnifex with adrenal split however you want
50 points to work with.

Not the best list, but it gives you an idea of what you can work with. Or you can go 3-6 exocrines and a skyshield landing pad with zoanthropes and venomthropes for a 2+ cover 4+ invul all the time potentially with FNP. The options go on for nidzilla.

**mercury14**

don_mondo wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:
Nope. Get behind walls, other models (25% obscured necessary) or bring a venomthrope along.

This makes no sense. No area terrain....

So Guardians have to just save against AP5 bolt guns with their 5+ armor save most of the time?

That, or buy the GW produced terrain that has specific cover values assigned. Hell, well over half of my terrain just became obsolete.

What GW terrain has a specific value other than craters?

Also "behind a rock" or "behind any solid thing" is a 4+ cover save? Even Behind another unit is a full-on 4+ cover save?

**MarkyMark**

http://sanguinesons.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/biggest-change-in-7th.html

Something that has made me cry a little on the inside.

**SeanDrake**

Got my book if any unanswered questions fire away.

**Trasvi**

Wayshuba wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Demon factory will have many problems, mainly the fact that all those powers are WC 3. You are not going to summon more stuff than i can destroy in a turn, and you will do nothing in the mean time.

The only good power is sacrifice since it's WC 1, but it has it's downsides:

1) It comes after dice generation, so it will not contribute to that phase.
2) It's a fragile as hell model when you get it ML2, 2 guardsman can easily take him out. Worst of all he is conjured after the movement phase, so he can't be put inside a troop. He will NEVER make it to the next turn.

Also, what will you do when an assault army (which will now start appearing) gets on you? You are gonna defend with Tzeenthc heralds (without gifts) and pink horrors (without available dices)?

While we will have to see once it is in play, I don't agree currently. Summoning is only one aspect of the army. That is not all they do. So, while they are summoning they are using the rest of the army to also pound on yours. Summoning creates the classic war of attrition. You spend you psychic powers on offense or protection while the opponent focuses on summoning. Both your armies are focusing on killing one another but the summoning army continues to call in 100-300 points in new units a turn (depending on the dice, dispels, etc.). Over the course of a six turn game, the summoning army has added 600-1,800 additional points on the table. Meaning, they will win the war of attrition - every single time.

While you are focusing on killing the summoned units, it is firepower not being directed at their core army. So while you may kill the units summoned every turn, it is less of their core army you are killing as a result. In the meantime, all their firepower is always concentrated on your core army. If you don't focus on the summoned units, and instead on their core army, eventually you will have almost another entire army to deal with.

So summoning creates either great meat shields or, if ignored, will in fact become a serious problem once enough of them are in play.

While I am not saying it is the be all end all strategy, I can see how this can get abusive and very fast - especially in a Chaos Daemon army.

Focussing an army on summoning isn't going to work well for anything except for a Tzeentch Daemon list... You need 20+ power dice to summon 2 units per turn.
However another army that can get perhaps 10 warp charges, might be able to play a moderately normal game and summon in an extra unit every turn. You're still tying up 300+ points of models in to possibly summoning ~100pts per turn unless you get lucky and manage to get a cheap model with possession....
Yeah. I don't know. Definitely worth some playtesting.

I think it will only work for a Tzeentch Daemon army.. anything less than 20 warp charges isn't going to summon stuff

**tetrisphreak**

SeanDrake wrote:
Got my book if any unanswered questions fire away.

Full wording for move through cover?

**Thud**

MarkyMark wrote:
http://sanguinesons.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/biggest-change-in-7th.html

Something that has made me cry a little on the inside.

Ugh.

**Wayshuba**

ClockworkZion wrote:

Of course this is all assuming every summoning goes through with no Perils killing off your Psykers, or being denied, or just failing because of how easy it is to fail.

Yes, if dice go well you could easily end up with lots of models, but you're not really likely to. Pluse of you summon more psykers, how are they generating their powers? Last I knew, powers were generated at the start of the game, so unless something is in the rules for summoning that we haven't seen, summoned psykers have no psychic powers. Which means you just need to nuke that one psyker doing the summoning to stop it. Oh and one of the powers causes a wound to summon Heralds (even for Daemons) and the Greater Daemon causes a Perils. So you know, the only one that is "good" is the Summoning one to use, and even then you can focus on removing the Psykers that know it to eliminate the threat.

There are always a lot of ifs - If a peril kills your psycher (and you do not have wargear to compensate such as a ghost helm or Runes of Witnessing). As far as being denied, that won't happen since it doesn't target any enemy unit, though their are always dispels, but still, based on WHFB, that usually means at least 1-2 powers will still get off a turn. As for the generation of psychers, nothing I mentioned even considers this. Just summon units of bloodletters, or something similar, every single turn.

And nuking the one psycher isn't much easier than it may be depending on terrain and set up (not to mention the judicious use of Look Out Sir). Sure, there are ifs on both sides (for and against) but now we will just have to wait and see how it plays out in practice. Or if the army is psycher heavy, such as an Eldar army with two Farseers and ten Warlocks generating D6+16 dice for casting.

I'm not saying there aren't sound strategies to deal with it. But anything introduced that has the potential to add another 600-1,800 (assuming getting 1-3 units of bloodletters a turn) has the potential to seriously skew the balance of a game.

**mercury14**

if there's no more area terrain and most cover relies on being behind stuff them barrage is going to absolutely massacre.

**slaede**

I just need to know if an FMC in swoop mode can score/contest objectives, prz.

**Accolade**

Thud wrote:
MarkyMark wrote:
http://sanguinesons.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/biggest-change-in-7th.html

Something that has made me cry a little on the inside.

Ugh.

So Unbound won't be an issue...because people will just be able to abuse the

out of Battle-Forged. Problem solved

/s

**rabidguineapig**

Ok so I know I'm beating Fateweaver to death with a dead horse while that dead horse is also being beaten, but... he is weird.

Anyone know how many warp charge dice he'll get? He is two ML4 psykers, but only generated 4 WC points in the past. I would assume it will still be 4, but does it say that you add up the mastery levels of your psykers to get the WC dice now? That would make 8. Maybe it will be in the FAQ.

**WrentheFaceless**

Hmm these FOC Battle-forged things sound contrary to what they were supposed to be.

I hope people are just reading it wrong.

**Wayshuba**

Deleted...accidental duplicate post.

**mercury14**

Is there like, "rubble" with a 5+ save for being in it?

**Super Newb**

SeanDrake wrote:
Got my book if any unanswered questions fire away.

Can you verify this? I've heard psykers inside transports can only cast witchfires. Is this true? As in can they not even bless their own unit which is with them inside the transport??

**MarkyMark**

rabidguineapig wrote:
Ok so I know I'm beating Fateweaver to death with a dead horse while that dead horse is also being beaten, but... he is weird.

Anyone know how many warp charge dice he'll get? He is two ML4 psykers, but only generated 4 WC points in the past. I would assume it will still be 4, but does it say that you add up the mastery levels of your psykers to get the WC dice now? That would make 8. Maybe it will be in the FAQ.

Fatey will only generate 4 dice, unsure on how horrors will work with more then 11 models, it may be the case they are useless or you need more then 11 (or 16) to do the higher casting of flickering fire

**undertow**

MarkyMark, Psychic Phase happens before shooting, yes?

If so, do you see anything preventing a FMC from using Psychic Shooting Attacks in the psychic phase, then swooping off the board in the shooting phase?

**rabidguineapig**

MarkyMark wrote:
rabidguineapig wrote:
Ok so I know I'm beating Fateweaver to death with a dead horse while that dead horse is also being beaten, but... he is weird.

Anyone know how many warp charge dice he'll get? He is two ML4 psykers, but only generated 4 WC points in the past. I would assume it will still be 4, but does it say that you add up the mastery levels of your psykers to get the WC dice now? That would make 8. Maybe it will be in the FAQ.

Fatey will only generate 4 dice, unsure on how horrors will work with more then 11 models, it may be the case they are useless or you need more then 11 (or 16) to do the higher casting of flickering fire

Thanks!