40k 7th Edition release 24th may - All info in 1st post, psychic power cards added (5/21)

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**Therion**

Grounding checks only happening once per phase, and D weapons only ignoring invulnerable saves etc. on a 6, the Tzeentch Daemon Prince Aetaos'rau'keres seems like a pretty tough world beater. How do you kill him? With little help he's a 2++ re-rollable invulnerable save Flying Gargantuan. He's a scoring unit, and a super psyker that can generate spells from the new rulebook. He can't be killed now, and he will kill everything.

The good thing is of course adding him to an Unbound list, so you don't worry about puny units like troop choices, and just go all the way hardcore stuff. He cashes in at rough 1K pts only, so you have plenty left for support. Don't limit yourself to 1 codex either.

**MarkyMark**

Good point....

**Puscifer**

Shandara wrote:
Nerf to Necrons CCB is not important, think of the buff to all other Daemon Chariots!

Buffs to Daemons as a whole.

They've become the top of the tier with all their new devilry.

**MarkyMark**

Good point...

Lets read it again

Right, the normal objective missions (big guns, scoruging, crusade)

terrain
Forts
Objectives
deployment type
sides
First turn

I do read it as forts are done before table sides. In the deploy armies it talks about upgrades for forts, they are placed same time as your army is (comms relay etc).

**shiwan8**

MarkyMark wrote:

Also this was asked before but I didnt answer it

Mission
deployment
terrain (or Citadel terrain as the BRB calls it)
Forts
Objectives
Sides
First turn
Sieze

So they still did not get it at GW. Paying point's for forts and giving them to the enemy is bad game design. That gets housed everywhere. Again.

**xttz**

Has the Swarms special rule changed? I'm sure I read earlier in this thread they got Stealth, but I can't find it.

**Altruizine**

xttz wrote:
Has the Swarms special rule changed? I'm sure I read earlier in this thread they got Stealth, but I can't find it.

Also, are they scoring units, now that we're in the era of "everything is scoring"?

I'd also like to know if Shrouded/Stealth are still worded so that one model having it will confer it to his entire unit.

**MarkyMark**

Swarms has already been answered, and yes they are scoring, cannot remember anything about stealth though.

**stonehorse**

An unbound army that is mostly deep striking Ripper Swarms could be a fun list to try.

Add in a few Haruspices.

**Sigvatr**

Puscifer wrote:
Voodoo_Chile wrote:
dracpanzer wrote:
Is there anything in the rules that may have fixed the Exalted Flamer Chariot of Tzeentch? They seemed to have misplaced the FAQ...

From MarkyMark earlier:

MarkyMark wrote:
So the burning chariot is fixed. Riders always count as stationary when firing weapons.

Riders CANNOT disembark from the chariot.

IF either rider or chariot is killed both are removed from play.

When shooting at chariots keep the number of successful hits that have been caused, keep the dice in different wound pools based on str and ap basically.

The player controlling the chariot then allocates each hit pool to the rider OR the chariot of the cloest model in the unit, if more then one pool the attacking player decides what pool to resolve first,

Chariots can be locked in combat, Chariots fight like infantry models, and can sweeping advance, pile in console etc (unless stunned)

In CC against a chariot decide if attacking chariot or rider, model by model basis, always by the riders WS though. You use the chariots FA though

Hammer of wrath from chariot is d6 str 6 ap- can re roll charge distance as well!, rider has fearless and relentless and can fire overwatch but not with a weapon on the chariot.

Aren't Necron CCB classed as Chariots?

If so... MEGA NERF, but at the same time... AV 13 in CC for the rider.

Why a nerf? You can now redirect lascannon hits (or similar) to your Overlord with a 3++. And the CCB now has a 4++ by default. It still isn't viable - not at all, with stuff like Sentry Pylons around that are SO MUCH BETTER. You can, however, indirectly "disembark" via Everliving. But then again, 180 points at the very least for a CCB? Nah. Sentry Pyloooooons!

**Puscifer**

I have a quick question...

There is a new Tzeentch player in my meta. He runs a Starscream list and it's just a PITA.

Has 7th made Mono Tzeentch Daemons any better?

If it has, the local meta is in trouble as he has won mini tourneys every week for the last 8-9 weeks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sigvatr wrote:
Puscifer wrote:
Voodoo_Chile wrote:
dracpanzer wrote:
Is there anything in the rules that may have fixed the Exalted Flamer Chariot of Tzeentch? They seemed to have misplaced the FAQ...

From MarkyMark earlier:

MarkyMark wrote:
So the burning chariot is fixed. Riders always count as stationary when firing weapons.

Riders CANNOT disembark from the chariot.

IF either rider or chariot is killed both are removed from play.

When shooting at chariots keep the number of successful hits that have been caused, keep the dice in different wound pools based on str and ap basically.

The player controlling the chariot then allocates each hit pool to the rider OR the chariot of the cloest model in the unit, if more then one pool the attacking player decides what pool to resolve first,

Chariots can be locked in combat, Chariots fight like infantry models, and can sweeping advance, pile in console etc (unless stunned)

In CC against a chariot decide if attacking chariot or rider, model by model basis, always by the riders WS though. You use the chariots FA though

Hammer of wrath from chariot is d6 str 6 ap- can re roll charge distance as well!, rider has fearless and relentless and can fire overwatch but not with a weapon on the chariot.

Aren't Necron CCB classed as Chariots?

If so... MEGA NERF, but at the same time... AV 13 in CC for the rider.

Why a nerf? You can now redirect lascannon hits (or similar) to your Overlord with a 3++. And the CCB now has a 4++ by default. It still isn't viable - not at all, with stuff like Sentry Pylons around that are SO MUCH BETTER. You can, however, indirectly "disembark" via Everliving. But then again, 180 points at the very least for a CCB? Nah. Sentry Pyloooooons!

You can't impact, shoot then disembark to assault. That was the staple of the CCB. At those points though, I can't see many running it now.

**Devil**

war walker will be back with bright lance (threat all as AV12, 6 shots at AP2 -> everything will be jinking -> BS1 next turn), scoring with 36" + battle focus, 5+ inv

**MarkyMark**

Puscifer wrote:
I have a quick question...

There is a new Tzeentch player in my meta. He runs a Starscream list and it's just a PITA.

Has 7th made Mono Tzeentch Daemons any better?

If it has, the local meta is in trouble as he has won mini tourneys every week for the last 8-9 weeks.

Feel free to PM me and I will help you out in regards to beating screamers. But they have had a nerf and bonus in 7th, the nerf is they cannot shoot flickering fire more then once per psychic phase from the same unit, the plus's are, they can now turbo boost after the psychic phase, they can now pretty much control the psychic phases, they have more ways to get 2++.

**Puscifer**

MarkyMark wrote:
Puscifer wrote:
I have a quick question...

There is a new Tzeentch player in my meta. He runs a Starscream list and it's just a PITA.

Has 7th made Mono Tzeentch Daemons any better?

If it has, the local meta is in trouble as he has won mini tourneys every week for the last 8-9 weeks.

Feel free to PM me and I will help you out in regards to beating screamers. But they have had a nerf and bonus in 7th, the nerf is they cannot shoot flickering fire more then once per psychic phase from the same unit, the plus's are, they can now turbo boost after the psychic phase, they can now pretty much control the psychic phases, they have more ways to get 2++.

Thanks for the offer dude. I'm just hovering ATM with deciding on what army to collect (tried Marines and GK and don't like the way they play).

Hang on... So the 2++ is going to be more prevalent, but the main psychic shooting is one per unit?

So no more shooting with the four Heralds?

If so, I think they just got incredibly busted.

Build up the Screamerstar as normal with two heralds, then go to town with a Herald in each Horror unit.

So the Horrors shoot, but not the Heralds. The Heralds add prescience and spawn more dudes.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because if that's the case, that's going to be insanely annoying to play against.

**Weidekuh**

I present you the new 7th edition Deathstar: Tigurius + anything. (I know he's already kinda in it with the Centurionstar). Why you ask? Because of the Telepathy power Invisibility. Tigurius can reroll psychic powers, so he has a very high chance getting it. WC2 powers are hard to cast, but he can reroll unsuccessful casts. Invisibility makes anything fire only snapshots at your unit. So no templates or blasts allowed. For one T4, 2+ wound you need 72 Bolter shots. Or 36 shots for a Space Marine.

Devil wrote:
war walker will be back with bright lance (threat all as AV12, 6 shots at AP2 -> everything will be jinking -> BS1 next turn), scoring with 36" + battle focus, 5+ inv

And Warp Spiders just got sooo much better. Extremely fast (to score objectives) and can easely kill any vehicle (except Landraiders), Infantry or MCs.

EDIT: If you play Eldar against Screamerstar, just send in your Wraithknight to tie it up all game long. That's how i play it.

**Puscifer**

Then ally in Heldrakes, Obliterators and some form of troops choice for shooting madness.

Christ, I hope he doesn't read this.

**Voodoo_Chile**

I'm not sure if the Heralds will be throwing out Prescience and Summoning guys. Wouldn't you need to focus on Divination exclusively to get Prescience or can you still trade in for it?

**Puscifer**

If you can trade it in, it's going to be busted.

If not, take up to 8 heralds and keep them as cheap as possible.

2 for Screamerstar, 2 for each Horror unit (One to cast prescience, the other to summon).

**Trasvi**

From what we've heard, you can't cast the same spell more than once per unit. Thus for Daemons, prescience isn't going to be thrown about all that much - it needs ~6 dice to cast and you don't have enough witchfires to benefit. It would almost always be worth casting a second witchfire or increased WC flames instead.

**cerbrus2**

shiwan8 wrote:
MarkyMark wrote:

Also this was asked before but I didnt answer it

Mission
deployment
terrain (or Citadel terrain as the BRB calls it)
Forts
Objectives
Sides
First turn
Sieze

So they still did not get it at GW. Paying point's for forts and giving them to the enemy is bad game design. That gets housed everywhere. Again.

More of a case of the person giving the info is not reading it properly and/or not giving the information over properly, Like a lot of the rules I have noiticed floating about the internet. It does go in that order but is says under fortifications that if a fortification is taken as part of an Army list then it is deployed at the same time as the other units in that army. If the fortification is taken as Nuetral, then it is deployed at this step.

**MarkyMark**

Spot on, I didnt fully read all the paragraphs just the headers!, you are indeed spot on.

Mission
deployment
terrain (or Citadel terrain as the BRB calls it)
Netural Forts
Objectives
Sides
First deployment, forts are now deployed as any other model in your army
Sieze

Thats now a big difference!.

**cerbrus2**

MarkyMark wrote:
Spot on, I didnt fully read all the paragraphs just the headers!, you are indeed spot on.

Mission
deployment
terrain (or Citadel terrain as the BRB calls it)
Netural Forts
Objectives
Sides
First deployment, forts are now deployed as any other model in your army
Sieze

Thats now a big difference!.

**shiwan8**

cerbrus2 wrote:
shiwan8 wrote:
MarkyMark wrote:

Also this was asked before but I didnt answer it

Mission
deployment
terrain (or Citadel terrain as the BRB calls it)
Forts
Objectives
Sides
First turn
Sieze

So they still did not get it at GW. Paying point's for forts and giving them to the enemy is bad game design. That gets housed everywhere. Again.

More of a case of the person giving the info is not reading it properly and/or not giving the information over properly, Like a lot of the rules I have noiticed floating about the internet. It does go in that order but is says under fortifications that if a fortification is taken as part of an Army list then it is deployed at the same time as the other units in that army. If the fortification is taken as Nuetral, then it is deployed at this step.

Oh, wow. So they learned from their mistake after all?

**djn**

Can anyone clarify regarding the loss of area terrain? Is this because it is rolled up into the citadel terrain rules e.g. Citadel woods grant 5+ area? Citadel ruins grant 4+?

**xttz**

**djn**

Cheers dude. So area terrain for ruins still exists the way I'm reading that. No mention of trees?

**MarkyMark**

There is a entry for the Citadel trees which give you 5+ cover for just being in it.

**stonehorse**

Wait, if forests, woods, jungles and such aren't listed does this mean that the Tyranid Warlord Trait number 1 Natures bane is now useless... well, more so than it currently is.

**Kanluwen**

stonehorse wrote:
Wait, if forests, woods, jungles and such aren't listed does this mean that the Tyranid Warlord Trait number 1 Natures bane is now useless... well, more so than it currently is.

That listing is for "Battlefield Debris", which makes sense to be a different category from "Natural Formations" or whatever they call trees and the like.

**techsoldaten**

Are the rumors about Focus Fire going away accurate? If so, do the new rules state anything about dealing with units that are only partially in cover? How would you resolve shots against a squad with 5 members in cover, and 5 members out of cover?