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Leerjawise wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:


So now Helldrakes no longer have 360° arc anymore, right? Because they were FAQd to have it, and that FAQ was written for 6th edition, and 6th edition is gone.

They still do, the FAQ applies to the codex not the rule book, and the codex is still valid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wilson wrote:
What are peoples plans for house ruling 7th?


so far we have agreed;

All armies must be Battleforged
No Demonology powers.
No Come the apocalypse allies.
Primary Detachment is restriced to 1 FOC per 1999+1
You may take an Allied detachment from the same codex.
Warp charges are capped to 12.

Sounds like you guys should just keep playing 6th edition then

agreed, you've pretty much house ruled out 7th edition

Leerjawise wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:


So now Helldrakes no longer have 360° arc anymore, right? Because they were FAQd to have it, and that FAQ was written for 6th edition, and 6th edition is gone.

They still do, the FAQ applies to the codex not the rule book, and the codex is still valid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wilson wrote:
What are peoples plans for house ruling 7th?


so far we have agreed;

All armies must be Battleforged
No Demonology powers.
No Come the apocalypse allies.
Primary Detachment is restriced to 1 FOC per 1999+1
You may take an Allied detachment from the same codex.
Warp charges are capped to 12.

Sounds like you guys should just keep playing 6th edition then

essentially, yeah. but we are taking the more positive rules implemented in 7th.

You will be deeply saddened if you come up against 3000 points worth of demons in an 1850 point game.
Especially if that game is taking you 3+ hours.

I may be blowing it out of proportion as i've not had a game yet- but from the people that have played a couple of games... well lets just say they where pretty bummed out by the time the game finished .

Wilson wrote:
What are peoples plans for house ruling 7th?


so far we have agreed;

All armies must be Battleforged
No Demonology powers.
No Come the apocalypse allies.
Primary Detachment is restriced to 1 FOC per 1999+1
You may take an Allied detachment from the same codex.
Warp charges are capped to 12.

Dude why bother investing in 7th ed at all? Y'all should just keep playing 6th... Would kind of suck to be an Ork player in your group if you do decide to just play 6th but still you have literally just house ruled out all of the major changes of 6th to 7th...

I don't understand how people will be surprised by 3000pts of demons in an 1850pt game.. You know what you're getting into if you accept a game against that person.

 Brometheus wrote:
I don't understand how people will be surprised by 3000pts of demons in an 1850pt game.. You know what you're getting into if you accept a game against that person.

i also dont understand why everyone seems to assume this is going to happen.

Just saying. If you play a game against someone who attempts to do it, whether it's possible or not, ya do it to yourself. I see it as a non-issue. I've already tried out the psychic phase and good luck summoning those demons. You'd better throw lots of dice, cause I could barely get any ML 3 powers off.

 ironicsilence wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
I don't understand how people will be surprised by 3000pts of demons in an 1850pt game.. You know what you're getting into if you accept a game against that person.

i also dont understand why everyone seems to assume this is going to happen.

I think he means, it is kind of hard to hide 3000pts of demon models, so it is easy to pick out the people you don't want to play with

But yeah, it won't happen often, and they'll end up being "That Guy" in gaming circles, and won't get play

That person would need to have 3k points worth of deamons put together and painted before I even considered playing against them anyway. There are no bare plastic legs glued to bases or "these guardsmen are pink horrers" allowed in my games anyway so it would literally take years to be able to field that many conjured deamons anyway.

Exactly. I'm just saying, everyone is worried that demons will wreck the game because an Unbound list with 20 Farseers will summon X amount of lesser demons and greater demons. C'mon. Why are you playing that player in the first place?

People outside of tournaments have been picking and choosing opponents already. It will continue

Im normally not to concerned about people having the right models but I think id have an issue if someone pulled out some nonsense for a ton of daemons, then again, you shouldn't need houserules for your gaming group to not pull that sort of bs

rothrich wrote:
That person would need to have 3k points worth of deamons put together and painted before I even considered playing against them anyway. There are no bare plastic legs glued to bases or "these guardsmen are pink horrers" allowed in my games anyway so it would literally take years to be able to field that many conjured deamons anyway.

rothrich wrote:

Wilson wrote:
What are peoples plans for house ruling 7th?


so far we have agreed;

All armies must be Battleforged
No Demonology powers.
No Come the apocalypse allies.
Primary Detachment is restriced to 1 FOC per 1999+1
You may take an Allied detachment from the same codex.
Warp charges are capped to 12.

Dude why bother investing in 7th ed at all? Y'all should just keep playing 6th... Would kind of suck to be an Ork player in your group if you do decide to just play 6th but still you have literally just house ruled out all of the major changes of 6th to 7th...

I'd be playing a balanced version of 40k that is in between 6th and 7th.

One which has a good hack at disallowing unsportsmanlike combo's that where dominating tournaments in 6th edition and also cages the upcoming new meta.
I imagine some people will really like the free spirit of the new 40k but as a player who has been around since 3rd edition I like to have a little bit of control.

ironicsilence, I totally agree with you sir.

I posted in another thread, but here's a completely legal army list for 7E.



Welcome to 7E. Home of the double Death Star.

I'm guessing the Bro Banner is auto-include for GK armies with terminators now?

 Brometheus wrote:
I'm guessing the Bro Banner is auto-include for GK armies with terminators now?

Waiting for FAQ, but as it stands now, 20 pts to have your force weapons "Always-On" and cannot be denied? Sounds good to me.

 Brometheus wrote:
I'm guessing the Bro Banner is auto-include for GK armies with terminators now?

Hasn't it always been?

Wilson wrote:

rothrich wrote:

Wilson wrote:
What are peoples plans for house ruling 7th?


so far we have agreed;

All armies must be Battleforged
No Demonology powers.
No Come the apocalypse allies.
Primary Detachment is restriced to 1 FOC per 1999+1
You may take an Allied detachment from the same codex.
Warp charges are capped to 12.

Dude why bother investing in 7th ed at all? Y'all should just keep playing 6th... Would kind of suck to be an Ork player in your group if you do decide to just play 6th but still you have literally just house ruled out all of the major changes of 6th to 7th...

I'd be playing a balanced version of 40k that is in between 6th and 7th.

One which has a good hack at disallowing unsportsmanlike combo's that where dominating tournaments in 6th edition and also cages the upcoming new meta.
I imagine some people will really like the free spirit of the new 40k but as a player who has been around since 3rd edition I like to have a little bit of control.

I'm with you to an extent wilson, I don't really want to start getting into the mucky muck of messing too much with the brb, but I do feel the foc has been raped pretty throughly and we're all being forced to play some perverted form of apocalypse, so we need formatting, no question. Here's my thoughts:

It creates a firewall between the 1 army concept of 3-5 and the "everyone play apocalypse and join the race to the bottom, your wallet belongs to jervis and kirby, armies are lame cool people use collections" trend we've been seeing. I will fully admit it does nothing to fix imbalance between codex's but it's a step in the right direction. Makes communication less daunting and rife with politics, bruised egos and hurt feelings.


1500pts: 1 force org, 1 detachment, 1 codex (let's call it 40k classic)

1850-2000pts: allies, fortifications (and all the crazy detachment nonsense)

2000-2999pts: super heavies, super mega monstrous creatures, formations knight titans ect

3000pts+: hello crazy, do whatever you want

 TheKbob wrote:
I posted in another thread, but here's a completely legal army list for 7E.

Spoiler:

++Grey Knight Detachment (1) ++
-Draigo
-10x Paladins w/ 4 Psycannons, Apothecary, Banner, Psybolt, etc.
-1x Paladin

++Grey Knight Detachment (2)++
-Coteaz
-Vindicare (For sniping Shield Eternal or Shadowfield)
-6x Warbands (2x Acolyte, 1x Mystic)

++Space Marines Allied Detachment++
=ULTRAMARINE TACTICS+
-Tigurius
-5x Sniper Scouts
-4x Dev Cents (Grav Cannons, Omni Scope)

Welcome to 7E. Home of the double Death Star.

I don't understand your point. Are you a "competitive" player or a "casual" player or something in between? Because anyone other than a hard core power gamer would never field an army like that. If you are a hard core power gamer than you should be excited at the prospect of having the opportunity to come up with the most hardcore powerfull list of all times. What is the problem?

We're going to start organizing rules councils again now. We're carefully looking at the new parts and see which will make it in our meta and which aren't.

Unbound and double FOC are out already, all tournaments will only use the previous tournament missions, no Maelstrom of course. Come the Apocalypse allies are banned. Point limit is likely to stay 1850 or 1999+1.

The rest will be invidually tested. Essential, 7th is just an update to 6th and not a new edition by itself, so most changes are single rules. Which is good. Less work and stuff.

Having everything able to score or not is a very debated topic right now.

rothrich wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I posted in another thread, but here's a completely legal army list for 7E.

Spoiler:

++Grey Knight Detachment (1) ++
-Draigo
-10x Paladins w/ 4 Psycannons, Apothecary, Banner, Psybolt, etc.
-1x Paladin

++Grey Knight Detachment (2)++
-Coteaz
-Vindicare (For sniping Shield Eternal or Shadowfield)
-6x Warbands (2x Acolyte, 1x Mystic)

++Space Marines Allied Detachment++
=ULTRAMARINE TACTICS+
-Tigurius
-5x Sniper Scouts
-4x Dev Cents (Grav Cannons, Omni Scope)

Welcome to 7E. Home of the double Death Star.

I don't understand your point. Are you a "competitive" player or a "casual" player or something in between? Because anyone other than a hard core power gamer would never field an army like that. If you are a hard core power gamer than you should be excited at the prospect of having the opportunity to come up with the most hardcore powerfull list of all times. What is the problem?

What type of gamer he is has NO effect on the pool of opponents in his local area. How "balanced" his army is and how well he as a player follows the fluff has no bearing on the chance that his ONLY choice of an opponent at his local store is fielding the same and not a "bend over" WAAC list that this new edition not just allows but encourages. I frequently only find one person to game against at my FLGS and I fully expect that in this edition I'll have to eventually choose between wasting my time driving 25 miles to the store or wasting my time playing against an unbound monstrosity of an army that I don't stand a fair chance against with my battleforged list. I guess the solution to that is to BUY MOAR! to cheese out my own instead of the theme of 1-2 of each entry that I went with all those years ago when building most of my forces.

 Sigvatr wrote:
We're going to start organizing rules councils again now. We're carefully looking at the new parts and see which will make it in our meta and which aren't.

Unbound and double FOC are out already, all tournaments will only use the previous tournament missions, no Maelstrom of course. Come the Apocalypse allies are banned. Point limit is likely to stay 1850 or 1999+1.

The rest will be invidually tested. Essential, 7th is just an update to 6th and not a new edition by itself, so most changes are single rules. Which is good. Less work and stuff.

Having everything able to score or not is a very debated topic right now.

How many detachments is too many?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rothrich wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I posted in another thread, but here's a completely legal army list for 7E.

Spoiler:

++Grey Knight Detachment (1) ++
-Draigo
-10x Paladins w/ 4 Psycannons, Apothecary, Banner, Psybolt, etc.
-1x Paladin

++Grey Knight Detachment (2)++
-Coteaz
-Vindicare (For sniping Shield Eternal or Shadowfield)
-6x Warbands (2x Acolyte, 1x Mystic)

++Space Marines Allied Detachment++
=ULTRAMARINE TACTICS+
-Tigurius
-5x Sniper Scouts
-4x Dev Cents (Grav Cannons, Omni Scope)

Welcome to 7E. Home of the double Death Star.

I don't understand your point. Are you a "competitive" player or a "casual" player or something in between? Because anyone other than a hard core power gamer would never field an army like that. If you are a hard core power gamer than you should be excited at the prospect of having the opportunity to come up with the most hardcore powerfull list of all times. What is the problem?

So GW is off the hook because we can just call each other names and label each other into compliance? Thekbob is making a damn fine point and that is that 7th didn't really address death stars and in the case of the list he just posted, actually helped in some cases to make them even more viable and or potent than before.

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
We're going to start organizing rules councils again now. We're carefully looking at the new parts and see which will make it in our meta and which aren't.

Unbound and double FOC are out already, all tournaments will only use the previous tournament missions, no Maelstrom of course. Come the Apocalypse allies are banned. Point limit is likely to stay 1850 or 1999+1.

The rest will be invidually tested. Essential, 7th is just an update to 6th and not a new edition by itself, so most changes are single rules. Which is good. Less work and stuff.

Having everything able to score or not is a very debated topic right now.

How many detachments is too many?

Oh, "double FOC" referred to taking anything but the regular FOC. 1 FOC, as usual, not allowed to take more than one.

rothrich wrote:


I don't understand your point. Are you a "competitive" player or a "casual" player or something in between? Because anyone other than a hard core power gamer would never field an army like that. If you are a hard core power gamer than you should be excited at the prospect of having the opportunity to come up with the most hardcore powerfull list of all times. What is the problem?

I am a tournament gamer that would like a better balanced game. I personally love the thematic "elite strike force" that Death Stars bring, however they are usually not balanced properly like other games. The risk reward exists, but that dual Death Star list effectively mitigates any risk that one would normally have in playing such a list.

I'm a competitive player who wishes that there was zero distinction between competitive and casual lists, essentially. I believe a balanced game makes everyone just "players" with no further distinction necessary.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
We're going to start organizing rules councils again now. We're carefully looking at the new parts and see which will make it in our meta and which aren't.

Unbound and double FOC are out already, all tournaments will only use the previous tournament missions, no Maelstrom of course. Come the Apocalypse allies are banned. Point limit is likely to stay 1850 or 1999+1.

The rest will be invidually tested. Essential, 7th is just an update to 6th and not a new edition by itself, so most changes are single rules. Which is good. Less work and stuff.

Having everything able to score or not is a very debated topic right now.

How many detachments is too many?

Oh, "double FOC" referred to taking anything but the regular FOC. 1 FOC, as usual, not allowed to take more than one.

I like that.

 Crablezworth wrote:

So GW is off the hook because we can just call each other names and label each other into compliance? Thekbob is making a damn fine point and that is that 7th didn't really address death stars and in the case of the list he just posted, actually helped in some cases to make them even more viable and or potent than before.

This, too.

Glad I only play at a GW so I can actually try out some games of 7th without worrying about people doing knee-jerk changes without really giving it a chance.

 TheKbob wrote:
I posted in another thread, but here's a completely legal army list for 7E.

Spoiler:

++Grey Knight Detachment (1) ++
-Draigo
-10x Paladins w/ 4 Psycannons, Apothecary, Banner, Psybolt, etc.
-1x Paladin

++Grey Knight Detachment (2)++
-Coteaz
-Vindicare (For sniping Shield Eternal or Shadowfield)
-6x Warbands (2x Acolyte, 1x Mystic)

++Space Marines Allied Detachment++
=ULTRAMARINE TACTICS+
-Tigurius
-5x Sniper Scouts
-4x Dev Cents (Grav Cannons, Omni Scope)

Welcome to 7E. Home of the double Death Star.

No really, please field this list against mine. I've never lost a game against Draigo star, I really don't see the appeal in it.

Between my DE pouring buckets of wounds on it and skirmishing back each time they move, the one time I had an Ork Shokk Attak Gun wipe out half the unit in one shot, and the hilarity of watching that try to last against a squadron of Leman Russ Executioners/Demolishers, plasma/melta vets and more, I've more than gotten over any fear of that particular deathstar.

And lol, Vindicare. "I'll snipe your SE/Shadowfield!" you croak. Well, if I'm playing SM, my Thunderfire cannon, Devastators, Storm Talons, and hiding the CM from LOS appropriately can all rip him to pieces before that happens. If I'm playing DE, frankly lol. One 2x SC Venom can ruin the Vindicare's day.

Dev Cent stars aren't really intimidating to my Ork hordes, my Guardsmen hordes, my tank squadrons, or my DE as a whole. Against my Marines, I just won't give you any infantry to shoot at - even if it means reserving them.

Your troops are garbage outside of the Draigostar and would be obscenely lucky to reach the middle of the board, much less my side.

Loopstah wrote:
Glad I only play at a GW so I can actually try out some games of 7th without worrying about people doing knee-jerk changes without really giving it a chance.

Don't bet on it. Didn't GW HQ nitially not allow their own escalation, stronghold, and FW products in their own event sometime earlier this year? They recanted when the embarassing story started making news.

Loopstah wrote:
Glad I only play at a GW so I can actually try out some games of 7th without worrying about people doing knee-jerk changes without really giving it a chance.

Yeah agreed, it sounds like a lot of these people would be really boring to play with. Glad my crew tends to play for fun.