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Anyone think this will be a good thing for the game? Maybe finally allowing for Ahriman and Thousand sons to be useful?

It doesn't bother me much, having gotten used to it in Fantasy and 2nd, but still I wonder the thoughts on having a specific phase for abilities. With the return of a focus on Psykers rather then them just being 'secondary' despite how important they are in the fluff, while ingame they are just additional shots of a power (at worst) or buffing gods (best)

If they do it right, I think it will be a huge positive. I have always wanted to have a perils table too, the chance that my Inquisitor will mess up and turn into a Daemon is pretty hilarious if I may say. Simply taking a wound is boring and goes against the fluff.

The biggest thing I think they could add, though, is the ability to deny blessings. It would seriously shake some things up and dent some deathstar builds a bit. On the other hand, if they don't do this some of those builds could become more reliable with an increased chance to get off that one key power.

I've been in a never ending state of confusion as to whether or not I'm allowed to cast stuff when my Rune Priest's squad hops out of that drop pod or my Great Unclean One comes in from Deep Strike. Having a separate phase would clear this up for me. I'm anxious to see how much the powers themselves will change since Magic in WHFB is seen mainly as the D weapons in that game.

I'm hoping non-pysker races gets something to help in this phase, ala dwarfs.

Could you explain how it works in fantasy because i dont understand.

 Sasori wrote:
I'm hoping non-pysker races gets something to help in this phase, ala dwarfs.

It depends, I highly doubt Tau will have something, and will have to rely on allied psykers or races to deal with it like in fluff.

Dark Eldar though, who have created objects to deal with Psykers like torturing one to death and sealing it in to cause effects to them, I think will.

Sisters of Battle though may have something more akin to Dwarves, what with being anti-psykers and coming in with specialized mindsets to deal with psykers.

Necrons I'm unsure of, they could before but I'm not sure of the 5th edition fluff for dealing with psykers.

Adding counterplay to blessings is a big plus in my eyes

I like how in Fantasy you roll 2d6 getting the total while your opponent gets the higher of the two dice.

The way 40k 7th's is described has me a bit worried as the 7th edition of Fantasy had a similar mechanic where you could generate an obscene number of power dice.

It will all come down to how powerful any new or revised spells are. There are armies which can't field any Psykers so will only get the D6 to protect themselves. Even Space Marines cap out at Mastery 4-6 if fielding multiple Librarians.

Against Seers or Flying Circus you could easily be at a 10+ dice disadvantage.

Getting rid of the psychic phase was one of the things I liked about the transition from 2nd edition to 3rd. Maybe they'll have a better implementation this time around, but I wouldn't bet on it. The new perils chart sounds entertaining, however.

It will all come down to how powerful any new or revised spells are. There are armies which can't field any Psykers so will only get the D6 to protect themselves. Even Space Marines cap out at Mastery 4-6 if fielding multiple Librarians.

Depends on how Psyker Hoods are handled.

Also how high it takes to roll for spells, the issues caused with rolling tons of dice, in 7th edition fantasy it was very weak results, you could fire off all day and not really be hurt, in 8th though hoo boy you'll take things down with you.

Very true. Psychic Hoods, Adamantium Will etc could help a great deal if revamped well.

I don't mind the psychic phase. I, however, do not like this "warp charge pool" mechanic that is rumored for 7th nor did I like the implementation of deny the witch, which i felt was just another bloat to the rules.

The only thing I remember about WHFB magic phase was how easy it was for Skaven to have a few teleporting magic users with items to give them extra dice. Teleport a caster to the opposite side of the field, cast as strong of a spell as possible using as many dice as allowed, get a good chance for the spell to go off and peril to get an extra large blast over your Kamikaze warlock.

I'm really looking forward to a change. I play Tau and would like to actually have some form of countering psykers or just getting a chance to do something aside from hoping on a 6 if I get hit.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
The only thing I remember about WHFB magic phase was how easy it was for Skaven to have a few teleporting magic users with items to give them extra dice. Teleport a caster to the opposite side of the field, cast as strong of a spell as possible using as many dice as allowed, get a good chance for the spell to go off and peril to get an extra large blast over your Kamikaze warlock.

I'm really looking forward to a change. I play Tau and would like to actually have some form of countering psykers or just getting a chance to do something aside from hoping on a 6 if I get hit.

Or your own Psykers in the form of Kroot Shaman!

I wish. Rogue Trader made the Kroot Shaper more of a joke than an actual Psyker. 40K assumes Shapers are just sergeant upgrades with sillier weapon options.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
The only thing I remember about WHFB magic phase was how easy it was for Skaven to have a few teleporting magic users with items to give them extra dice. Teleport a caster to the opposite side of the field, cast as strong of a spell as possible using as many dice as allowed, get a good chance for the spell to go off and peril to get an extra large blast over your Kamikaze warlock.

I'm really looking forward to a change. I play Tau and would like to actually have some form of countering psykers or just getting a chance to do something aside from hoping on a 6 if I get hit.

I don't get everyone complaining about Tau having no psychic defence. The Talisman of Arthras Moloch is the best psychic defence in the game barring the last remnant of 5th ed style psychic defence ala Rune Priests.

4D6 to deny the witch in a 12" radius (effectively larger because it is almost always on a riptide) is really good. About a 52% chance to deny. Plus you can ally farseers that stack with this to take the odd up to ~80% deny on any unit he is attached to. Or an allied Librarian will bring you up to the 80% mark within a 6" radius of a psychic hood. Don't tell me Tau don't have psychic defence.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I wish. Rogue Trader made the Kroot Shaper more of a joke than an actual Psyker. 40K assumes Shapers are just sergeant upgrades with sillier weapon options.

Aren't Kroot Shapers Chieftain equivalents while Kroot Shaman are distinct entities?

 Kain wrote:

Aren't Kroot Shapers Chieftain equivalents while Kroot Shaman are distinct entities?

Don't remember reading much about the Kroot Shaman. I know that Shapers are supposed to be the higher ranking among the Kroot that can guide the course of their evolutionary paths. In Rogue Trader they gave the Shaper some simple Shaman powers which were a once a day ability to get a small bonus to a single knowledge check if you meditated earlier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 astro_nomicon wrote:

I don't get everyone complaining about Tau having no psychic defence. The Talisman of Arthras Moloch is the best psychic defence in the game barring the last remnant of 5th ed style psychic defence ala Rune Priests.

It's great, I admit that. The problem is that it's only a single item available in the supplement. So if you're playing standard you have no psychic defense available. If you asked me I'd rather have a mild army wide affect then the best bubble effect. Something toned down instead of no psyker powers going off within 12" of the model.

4D6 to deny the witch in a 12" radius (effectively larger because it is almost always on a riptide) is really good. About a 52% chance to deny. Plus you can ally farseers that stack with this to take the odd up to ~80% deny on any unit he is attached to. Or an allied Librarian will bring you up to the 80% mark within a 6" radius of a psychic hood. Don't tell me Tau don't have psychic defence.

But this is the problem. It's the illusion of choices. If you want psychic defense you HAVE to take the amulet. It's the only real Tau way to defend. Throwing an ally in there is also just forcing in a single concept. Buy amulet, bunch around, end of story. I don't like that style. But try coming up with a Tau psyker defense without relying on the supplement or on allies. Can't be done.

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
The only thing I remember about WHFB magic phase was how easy it was for Skaven to have a few teleporting magic users with items to give them extra dice. Teleport a caster to the opposite side of the field, cast as strong of a spell as possible using as many dice as allowed, get a good chance for the spell to go off and peril to get an extra large blast over your Kamikaze warlock.

I'm really looking forward to a change. I play Tau and would like to actually have some form of countering psykers or just getting a chance to do something aside from hoping on a 6 if I get hit.

I don't get everyone complaining about Tau having no psychic defence. The Talisman of Arthras Moloch is the best psychic defence in the game barring the last remnant of 5th ed style psychic defence ala Rune Priests.

4D6 to deny the witch in a 12" radius (effectively larger because it is almost always on a riptide) is really good. About a 52% chance to deny. Plus you can ally farseers that stack with this to take the odd up to ~80% deny on any unit he is attached to. Or an allied Librarian will bring you up to the 80% mark within a 6" radius of a psychic hood. Don't tell me Tau don't have psychic defence.

I always just assumed that a race whose mental presence in the warp is so tiny to basically be unnoticeable should get some kind of bonus to being affected by warp powers. At least Malediction debuff style things should pretty much slide off a Tau in my opinion.

 Wilytank wrote:
I'm anxious to see how much the powers themselves will change since Magic in WHFB is seen mainly as the D weapons in that game.

Not really. It had reputation at first, and sometimes someone shows up making similar claims, but while some spells can be destructive, they're only close to "erase this unit" status against specific targets or in certain situations. The lowest miscast result will inflict damage to yourself more consistently.

So unless, D Weapons have the potentiall to damage your army more than their shots could ever cause to the enemy, its a bad comparison.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I wish. Rogue Trader made the Kroot Shaper more of a joke than an actual Psyker. 40K assumes Shapers are just sergeant upgrades with sillier weapon options.

Wtf is this mind science you gue'la keep talking about?

Will I have to carry Deamon Models around with me now?

Does that mean that an AM list will have to run 5-6 casters and always be unbound to fit them in to get off some divination buffs?

 dementedwombat wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
The only thing I remember about WHFB magic phase was how easy it was for Skaven to have a few teleporting magic users with items to give them extra dice. Teleport a caster to the opposite side of the field, cast as strong of a spell as possible using as many dice as allowed, get a good chance for the spell to go off and peril to get an extra large blast over your Kamikaze warlock.

I'm really looking forward to a change. I play Tau and would like to actually have some form of countering psykers or just getting a chance to do something aside from hoping on a 6 if I get hit.

I don't get everyone complaining about Tau having no psychic defence. The Talisman of Arthras Moloch is the best psychic defence in the game barring the last remnant of 5th ed style psychic defence ala Rune Priests.

4D6 to deny the witch in a 12" radius (effectively larger because it is almost always on a riptide) is really good. About a 52% chance to deny. Plus you can ally farseers that stack with this to take the odd up to ~80% deny on any unit he is attached to. Or an allied Librarian will bring you up to the 80% mark within a 6" radius of a psychic hood. Don't tell me Tau don't have psychic defence.

I always just assumed that a race whose mental presence in the warp is so tiny to basically be unnoticeable should get some kind of bonus to being affected by warp powers. At least Malediction debuff style things should pretty much slide off a Tau in my opinion.

They don't in the fluff, the only things that's hard to hit them with are things like telepathy (As Eliphas finds out), things that physically affect them or hurt them go through easy, because the whole 'mental presence' in the warp does gack against something forced into the physical plane that hurts you.

There was always something I found odd. It is the Primaris for Telekinisis. Its describe as them listing a boulder and throwing it. How do you deny a boulder with your mind?

 Kain wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
The only thing I remember about WHFB magic phase was how easy it was for Skaven to have a few teleporting magic users with items to give them extra dice. Teleport a caster to the opposite side of the field, cast as strong of a spell as possible using as many dice as allowed, get a good chance for the spell to go off and peril to get an extra large blast over your Kamikaze warlock.

I'm really looking forward to a change. I play Tau and would like to actually have some form of countering psykers or just getting a chance to do something aside from hoping on a 6 if I get hit.

Or your own Psykers in the form of Kroot Shaman!

Nicassar psykers would be cool for Tau.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
There was always something I found odd. It is the Primaris for Telekinisis. Its describe as them listing a boulder and throwing it. How do you deny a boulder with your mind?

[Thought process]Oh hey, look at that guy ripping a boulder out of the ground with his mind!

[Thought process]Hmmm, looks like it's headed this way...

[Thought process]Oh my god, it IS headed this way! Get dowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn!

Aaaaaand dodged! With your mind. At least that's how I imagine it lol.

That would represent a cover save though.

You back hand them with your mind and say

nope.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
There was always something I found odd. It is the Primaris for Telekinisis. Its describe as them listing a boulder and throwing it. How do you deny a boulder with your mind?

Clearly they're solipists and just denied it's existence hard enough.