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 Overread wrote:

Sure if GW and its IP vanished we'd likely see an end to the dozen or so companies that make copy-cat models of the same theme; and we'd probably ride out the initial loss of new recruits for a few years; but that kick would come (in some countries more than others). I'd rather see the market grow, expand, strengthen - and yes with GW focusing on larger scale games that means the market is open field for a lot of smaller companies to get a good foothold on the market - heck that's was PP did with Warmachine. For a long time it was the small scale skirmish game of choice - now they are ramping up toward larger battles and forces; still no the same rank and file as GW, but a similar larger scale setup.

Those smaller companies would probably expand if GW was no longer making any models, at least in the short to medium term. GW's IP won't go away though, it may go out of production for a few years, especially if there are disputes over who actually owns it, but it will come back. Just look at Warzone, that was dead as a dead thing for a decade, or at least it was until last year's kickstarter.

As to who I would want to be running GW I really don't know. A 'dream team' of the guys who built 40k would obviously be my first choice but its not going to happen. FFG have proven that they know how to handle 40K's background and they can produce some simple but effective rules although they are probably too small at the moment, even if they seem to be rapidly expanding. There are no obvious answers and there is even an element of "better the devil you know", even if that devil is the appalling mismanagement that GW is suffering from at the moment.

Jehan-reznor wrote:Bandai is not a fraction of GW's size IMHO.

You don't need to rely on your humble opinion. Both companies are public and have to report their sales.

Namco Bandai Holdings revenue was 507,679 ... million yen. That's roughly 2.944 billion GBP. GW's last two half years added together was 128 million GBP.

So you're right, they're not a fraction of GW's size, they're 23 times the size of GW. If you just take their Gundam brand, sales for that is 463 million GBP, 3.6 times the size of GW.

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:A private company

This is what I would want as well. Someone should take it private.

Paizo. They are awesome at knowing what the gamers want, and making it great.

 tjnorwoo wrote:
I'd like to see GW buy back their own company. I'm not a big fan of going public. Really kills the creative roots and turns a company into a money grubbing corporation.

Hundred times this.

It's all the more evident considering what a customer and fan focused company used to be, when they were allowed to be. I'm all for companies making profit and paying their workers, but the pendulum has swung too far from the 'golden age' of the mid-90s when GW seemed to be a hotbed of creativity and imagination.

I'll sound like an old git for saying it, but some of you younger games have no idea what you missed..

Let'em burn. The vacuum created would be filled and I'm sure most of the Tournament Organizers would do a better job of carrying on the IP for 40k/Fantasy.

FFG.

Yes, I do have something of a vested interest, but I really do think they'd do a stellar job with it.

 tjnorwoo wrote:
I'd like to see GW buy back their own company. I'm not a big fan of going public. Really kills the creative roots and turns a company into a money grubbing corporation.

I should have thought to put that on the poll - it is another 'better than now' possibility.

The Auld Grump

 Pacific wrote:

 tjnorwoo wrote:
I'd like to see GW buy back their own company. I'm not a big fan of going public. Really kills the creative roots and turns a company into a money grubbing corporation.

Hundred times this.

It's all the more evident considering what a customer and fan focused company used to be, when they were allowed to be. I'm all for companies making profit and paying their workers, but the pendulum has swung too far from the 'golden age' of the mid-90s when GW seemed to be a hotbed of creativity and imagination.

I'll sound like an old git for saying it, but some of you younger games have no idea what you missed..

Are the problems because it's public, or because it's being run by people that don't know or care about the game and just want to make money? I get that some decisions are being pushed to try and fudge the annual reports, but the real problems seem to be that the game is being pushed to make the man at the top as much money as possible before he retires, and I'm sure that'd happen even if it was private (someone has to be at the top).

 Lockark wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
Fantasy Flight, because their HQ is close enough for me to drive to.

I think if GW goes down, so will the IP.

If gw goes down, the ip will go to the highest bidder. No one will buy the gw company as a whole. Unless someone wants the continue the wargame.

Yeah, whilst there may not be a single gaming company big enough to buy out all of GW there are many who would be happy to buy parts of it. Members on here have even talked of sending GW offers for either the specialist lines or Warhammer Historicals when they were discontinued.

I can easily see Mantic buying Warhammer Fantasy and maybe the LOTR franchise.
No idea who'd buy 40K but maybe a console gaming or film company for the rights.
The specialist games will all be snapped up: Blood Bowl, Space Hulk, Necromunda, Mordheim, Battlefield Gothic.

Some of them tie in pretty closely with 40K but it wouldn't take too much to split them off; Space Marines are a pretty generic trope.

Black Library does alright, as does Forgeworld, so I could see them being bought out or split off into separate companies.

The only things they'd struggle to sell off will be the shops (generally small and in poor locations) and Warhammer World.

 Palindrome wrote:

As to who I would want to be running GW I really don't know. A 'dream team' of the guys who built 40k would obviously be my first choice but its not going to happen. FFG have proven that they know how to handle 40K's background and they can produce some simple but effective rules although they are probably too small at the moment, even if they seem to be rapidly expanding.

FFG would need more than resources to take over GW's titles, they would require whole new attitude shift. They are, if anything, even more sloppy than GW when it comes to balancing and rulewriting.
I have never played anything as unbalanced and buggy as Descent: Road to Legend - and I didn't even try the subsesquent expansions which were reputed to be even more messed up.

 Vash108 wrote:
Disney will swoop in and buy it.

Mickey Marines...

As a player, FFG.

As a ref, WotC.

EA of course.


Joking aside FFG is the best of those options for me imo, maybe Mantic too I guess.

EDIT: Or going private, that would be the overrall best option for me

I find it interesting that people claim GW is on the verge of a collapse because of their recent results. I would say that it would have been far more likely when there was a global recession and there was less disposable income about to spend on what is a luxury product. The fact that GW survived that probably indicates that they will be fine in long term.

However, in Britain there are a number of companies who collapsed after the recession (the big ones being Blockbuster and HMV). What did these companies have in common:
- A failure to adapt to improved technology
- A failure to embrace their customer base
- An over saturation of shops in expensive town centre areas

One could quite easily suggest that GW is doing the exact same things. They are especially guilty of wasting the lifeblood of what a company like this needs, a strong fanbase. GW is a luxury product and the company should be falling over itself to keep its fanbase happy. I've been a staunch defender of GW in the past but some of their recent actions makes me scratch my head.

As for who do I want to buy the company? Anyone who runs the company effectively and is willing to communicate with their fans. A simple release schedule does a lot to build up anticipation. I have no idea what hiding what is comming next really achieves.

I'd argue GW isn't over-saturating the market with shops, sadly being on the highstreet (and GW generally doesn't site themselves in the poorest areas) is insanely expensive today; especially for many hobby or special interest shops. You've got to have a very high turn-over (jewellery) or constant customers (clothing/food/mobile phones).

I'd argue that they are adapting to new methods, although their finecast move was too quick and it has harmed them for a while; but with a shift toward more plastics and having some of the best plastic on the market I think they are still pushing boundaries there; considering the scale of their operation plastic is likely better for them; though I wouldn't be surprised if they try another resin plastic hybrid in the future.

The fans issue is a problem for their upper management - and that's the same pattern we see for many public companies.

Silver_skates wrote:
I find it interesting that people claim GW is on the verge of a collapse because of their recent results. I would say that it would have been far more likely when there was a global recession and there was less disposable income about to spend on what is a luxury product. The fact that GW survived that probably indicates that they will be fine in long term.

The reasons for that are fairly well discussed, but in short during the recession the LOTR boom was still going strong and artificially propping them up whilst there was minimal competion.

In recent years they've experienced serious competition and appear to have been cutting back as severely as they can to keep the financial results looking good. Factoring in attendance at shows and price hikes, all of the evidence points to a significant decline in sales.

So they're eventually going to run out of things to prop it up and without doing something major it's going to turn awful, and simultaneously losing the big thing in their advantage; ubiquity, it's the easiest game to get an opponent because almost everyone in the gaming scene has an army or 2. There are a lot of people who only still have 40K armies because of the ease of finding an opponent.

Gaming is a social past time, so if GW's player level drops to the point it's hard to get a game it'll start losing customers fast.

 Pacific wrote:
Weren't there some rumours of a 28mm Star Wars game from FFG?

There were, but I don't think they were ever confirmed. People just leapt to conclusions when it was announced that FFG had a Star Wars licence shortly after the WotC game was shut down.

Privateeer, because they have a proven track record of producing mini games the right way.

Realistically I would think a merger more likely than a buyout...

And I think that it is silly to make a claim, then fail to back it up.

*Shrug*

So, I am guessing that you didn't have any substantial remark to make, then?

You just wanted to complain?

The Auld Grump

GW is a much larger company than any of the ones you listed barring Hasbro/WOTC. When I say much larger, I mean in every sense of the term, Privateer Press, Fantasy Flight, etc. couldnt afford to purchase them, Fantasy Flight *might* have the best shot of them after Hasbro, but I really don't think they could manage it either.

 ExiledMiniatures wrote:

 RatBot wrote:

 ExiledMiniatures wrote:


If any company gets bought in the next few years or goes out of business it will be Privateer Press before Games Workshop in all honesty.

Interesting. Have any evidence/logic to back that up? (and I don't mean that in a snarky way, as a private company PP doesn't have to release financial information, so I'm curious if you actually know something).

Just my opinion on the industry.

Opinion doesnt equal fact.

While the game does seem great and a lot of people enjoy it, the miniatures are sub par. There casting process has many issues and several pieces use low quality plastics. (Not sure the exact names not to familiar with the line lol)

Definitely your opinion, one which I and many others disagree with.

They are also a company run by hobbyist not businessmen/women and make the mistakes of a hobbyist.

Such as? I've yet to see a single 'mistake'.

People decry Games Workshop but at the end of the day they are a business and run the company as one. The miniatures may be expensive but there isn't a company out there producing kits to the same level as them and in the quantity they produce and sell.

False. There are more than a few making higher quality, more detailed, and CHEAPER plastic injection molded model kits in greater volumes than GW, see also: Revell, Tamiya, Trumpeter, Dragon, etc. There are also companies like Bandai, etc. doing stuff just as good as GW's, if not better. Hell, Dreamforge Games kits are better than the closest GW analogue minis.

Privateer Press WILL NEVER rival Games Workshop in this aspect.

I wouldn't be so sure. They are still a small company, sure, but they are growing, and the release of Warmachine: Tactics is sure to infuse them with additional capital and additional customers.

This is a conversation I've been having with several people lately about the problems with the industry and why it is such a "small" community.
And I do know someone interested in owning PP, but he also wants to buy majority share in GW in his 30 year plan. Do I think he could do it? I actually do. The industry is about to be turned on it's head in the next few months thanks to him.

lol, yeah, okay.

The argument that without GW the industry would be better is pointless. Without GW there would be no industry. Literally Games Workshop and their IP is the most well known IP. If they went belly up, everyone in the industry would suffer.

Right NOW. Things change, Warmahordes is increasing in visibility and popularity. I've started seeing Chinese resin recasts of warmachine figures popping up online, not to the extent that GW kits are, but considering that even a few months ago you *couldnt* find Warmahordes recasts, and still to this day you cant find FOW, Malifaux, Infinity, etc. it says something. Beyond that, at PAX East, I saw at least 3 Warmahordes cosplays, one of which attracted a rather significant amount of attention (epic Stryker IIRC), let alone the fact that PP had a rather sizeable booth in a pretty visible area that was generally packed with people in what is generally considered a video game convention, and with the impending release of Warmachine Tactics coming our way which might do for PP what DoW did for GW, PP is well poised to start an upwards trend. Conversely, the GW presence at PAX was? Zero. The number of Warhammer related cosplays? I *think* 1 chaos marine type, but truthfully im not even really sure thats what he was cosplaying.

So yes, while a lot of the industry might suffer should GW tank, right now (it is after all considered the industry 'gateway'), that might not be the case in a year, and truthfully, GW tanking would really just create a void for a new company to take its place. I find it hard to believe that this wouldn't be facilitated by GW customers switching over to Flames of War or Warmahordes or another company to get their miniatures fix

If GW were to be sold I think FFG as owner would produce the best effects for current fans. Fantasy Flight have been on a roll in recent years and already know how to use the properties. They have also been getting miniature games experience with x-wing. GW's games don't directly overlap (fantasy & sci-fi mass battles compared to starfighter skirmish).

They would probably be my 'owner of choice' if they had the capability to do it.

Privateer Press would make for an interesting owner since they would become even more of a minis game specialist. They would probably do the best at revising the rules. PP would greatly benefit from the expertise of GW's staff in how to produce plastic minis. With so many product lines under one roof that compete directly with each other I'd expect all of the games to change and appeal to different target markets.

I really dont think PP would want GWs IP...

Hasbro is the only one that I believe could realistically buy GW. Their ownership would likely result in some drastic changes to the company and the products. 40k and fantasy would become very different from what we know over the course of a decade. Hasbro knows how to make a game big though. MTG and D&D are as mainstream as it gets in the industry. I would expect 40k to be their main focus since they already own two strong fantasy franchises. Warhammer Monopoly would be cool though.

I dont imagine too many current GW IP fans would be too happy with the direction it would take under Hasbro...

Mantic would probably be most respectful of the properties if they somehow became owners. They would probably change the least of all companies listed. I don't think they would do much different from what the current management does now except the fundamental communication and customer satisfaction shift. -then again for GW that would be an earthshaking change. The KoW and warpath universes would be rolled up into 40k and fantasy.

It really depends who was heading up the design studio... I am of the opinion that the current studio could do worse, rules wise... my proof of this is Mantic.

I really think you're overestimating GWs position in the market there. They are the biggest, they are probably the ones that draw in the most new blood, but there is the entire Historical sub market that has existed for decades without feeling the presence of GW at all. Ten or twenty years ago I might have agreed but now there are far too many games that are seeing massive growth, no doubt GW is the biggest, but I really think you're getting the wrong impression from your local area if you really think this is the case.

I disagree. The historical community is largely separate and distinct one with very little overlap with the tabletop wargaming industry as being discussed in this thread. The resemblance is otherwise superficial (rules used to engage in miniatures based combat) and theres very little overlap between the communities. Its also a 'garage industry' run almost entirely by hobbyists as a labor of love rather than as a business venture and largely caters to a much older audience than games like Warhammer, Warmahordes, etc.

Skipping over that PP are a private company who haven't shown any sighs of being unstable (that I'm aware of), what makes you think GW are a stable company?

The closest sign to instability they've shown is not being able to keep up with demand at certain points in the past (issues now seemingly resolved)... in reality that is more an indicator that they are being very frugal and conservative rather than that they are unstable. This is in reference to Privateer Press. GW is a different story, if they are 'stable' they are making moves that would indicate otherwise.

They have grown barely above inflation for what.. the last 4 years? And now this last half year report has come out and profits are down and sales are way down.

Mind you, this is in spite of an accelerated release schedule which has been providing *more* new product more consistently than at any point in the companies prior history.

They provide manufacture and retail on a medium (large for the niche) scale which I can think of no other organisation doing.

Tamiya, Trumpeter, Revell, Bandai, etc. No, they aren't in the 'game industry', but they provide basically the same class of goods.

 LumenPraebeo wrote:
I want the Virgin Group to buy GW I think they'll change the entire face of tabletop gaming for the better.

Errr... Virgin Workshop?

Hasbro, just because I'd love to see what they would come up with if they got hold of GW's skill in plastic production. I would expect multiple licenses in GW's future if Hasbro got them.

I would argue that Hasbro has access to GW's capabilities (and more) already, they did after all produce some pretty high quality Star Wars and Zoids model kits, although these were of course outsourced production, much like almost everything Hasbro produces.

"Other"

Because honestly, no one. I want to see GW claw itself out of the hole it's been digging and become a better company overall and do good things again, not get sold off to someone else. I don't have confidence in other companies to handle the IP well (not that GW is doing all that much better sometimes) and I don't see another company doing good things to the games overall to make them more profitable.

Donald Sterling should buy GW

 ClockworkZion wrote:
"Other"

Because honestly, no one. I want to see GW claw itself out of the hole it's been digging and become a better company overall and do good things again, not get sold off to someone else. I don't have confidence in other companies to handle the IP well (not that GW is doing all that much better sometimes) and I don't see another company doing good things to the games overall to make them more profitable.

+1

Disney buys Star Wars... I know its different, but IP is IP.

chaos0xomega wrote:

And I think that it is silly to make a claim, then fail to back it up.

*Shrug*

So, I am guessing that you didn't have any substantial remark to make, then?

You just wanted to complain?

The Auld Grump

GW is a much larger company than any of the ones you listed barring Hasbro/WOTC. When I say much larger, I mean in every sense of the term, Privateer Press, Fantasy Flight, etc. couldnt afford to purchase them, Fantasy Flight *might* have the best shot of them after Hasbro, but I really don't think they could manage it either.

With the exception of Hasbro, all of those companies were chosen as having some connection to GW - not by their size.

Some were started by ex-GW folks, one is publishing the GW RPGs.

They have a vested interest.

As I think I have mentioned, I think that the most likely scenario, in the event of GW sinking for the last time, is that the IP gets split up among any creditors, and sold off.

I also do not see the IP getting all that much money invested in the purchase.

GW is a big fish, but only because the pond is so small.

It may be worth noting that none of the companies started by folks that have left GW is being publicly traded - GW stands as a grim example of why going public is a bad idea for game companies.

Hasbro is also publicly traded, but comes in from buying other companies, rather than going public.

The Auld Grump

I don't want GW to be sold to anyone. I love their games and their models and the staff in the stores I visit are great.

That does not mean I think GW are all fine and dandy.

GW are not using their biggest marketing tool to make profit, their stores. The stores are there to sell product. I genuinely think the answer is to open up stores to a wider range of product. Start with Black Library, FFG RPGs & games and Forge World. But there really is nothing stopping GW from becoming a true gamers store again, well, apart from the Board. Get other games in the shops. Heck, sell Warmachine & Mantic if that's what it takes.

The other option is to pass the trade onto LGS. But if they are going to do that they need to drop the ridiculous restrictions they impose on independant retailers, Let LGS stock any and all products and give them the support they need rather than hindering them.

I think GW are great. But I want them to be awesome. But they'll only be that once they accept the greater gaming community.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

And I think that it is silly to make a claim, then fail to back it up.

*Shrug*

So, I am guessing that you didn't have any substantial remark to make, then?

You just wanted to complain?

The Auld Grump

GW is a much larger company than any of the ones you listed barring Hasbro/WOTC. When I say much larger, I mean in every sense of the term, Privateer Press, Fantasy Flight, etc. couldnt afford to purchase them, Fantasy Flight *might* have the best shot of them after Hasbro, but I really don't think they could manage it either.

With the exception of Hasbro, all of those companies were chosen as having some connection to GW - not by their size.

Some were started by ex-GW folks, one is publishing the GW RPGs.

They have a vested interest.

As I think I have mentioned, I think that the most likely scenario, in the event of GW sinking for the last time, is that the IP gets split up among any creditors, and sold off.

I also do not see the IP getting all that much money invested in the purchase.

GW is a big fish, but only because the pond is so small.

It may be worth noting that none of the companies started by folks that have left GW is being publicly traded - GW stands as a grim example of why going public is a bad idea for game companies.

Hasbro is also publicly traded, but comes in from buying other companies, rather than going public.

The Auld Grump

All of this is irrelevant, GW, its IPs, and assets are worth more than any of those companies can afford, its not about being a big fish in a small pond, its about having the resources to make an acquisition a reality. If GW is a a big fish than its a large tuna, hasbro is a great white shark, and the rest you listed are salmon. Do the math.

Thing is, it doesn't really matter how big of a fish GW is compared to all the others. All it may take are some bad financial reports and for the stock prices to drop low enough for someone to make a buyout (if I understand that correctly).

I also don't see GW capable of saving itself, by itself. By that, I mean that even if the entire management changed to become everything we could possible want in a GW management team, GW doesn't have enough money to reinvest into itself to turn things around. For example, I don't think we'll ever see a redone Sisters of Battle army because I don't think GW can afford to redo the entire army in plastic like they did with Necrons and Dark Eldar. GW is now doing smaller print runs of books, as they apparently don't think they will make enough money to justify bigger print runs. They're not even willing to make ebook versions of all their rules. GW is incredibly strapped for cash, and the only way they can truly turn things around (besides a management change) is to generate some sort of massive influx of cash to reinvest in their products and manufacturing.

 EmilCrane wrote:
Likely candidates are Hasbro and Disney, who seem to be monopolizing nerdom.

Hmm. Disney now has Star Wars, so Power Swords could become light sabers......

Tannhauser42 wrote:I also don't see GW capable of saving itself, by itself. By that, I mean that even if the entire management changed to become everything we could possible want in a GW management team, GW doesn't have enough money to reinvest into itself to turn things around.

I don't know what has changed in the last sixth months (next financial report comes out soon enough and we'll find out) but their cash and debt position is just fine. They totally can afford to make massive changes. They could easily hire a team of 10 new designers and developers to remake their product experience from the ground up and revamp things by year end. And a lot of their damaging policies can be reversed the same way they were created.

For example, I don't think we'll ever see a redone Sisters of Battle army because I don't think GW can afford to redo the entire army in plastic like they did with Necrons and Dark Eldar.

GW has their own 3d design staff, their own tooling and their own injection moulding machine. It's not about affording something, it's about whether or not spending X hours will equal enough sales to justify it.

GW is now doing smaller print runs of books, as they apparently don't think they will make enough money to justify bigger print runs. They're not even willing to make ebook versions of all their rules. GW is incredibly strapped for cash, and the only way they can truly turn things around (besides a management change) is to generate some sort of massive influx of cash to reinvest in their products and manufacturing.

They're not strapped for cash yet. They just have no will to reinvest. The reason their cash reserves depleted to the degree they did is not because they lost money (they were profitable) but because they paid it out as a dividend rather than reinvest it into growing their business. And given that GW has released an interim statement that things are proceding according to expectations, I'm guessing they'll have flat or shrinking revenue and no loss and a sight fluctuation in their cash position.

The smaller print runs are from smaller sales amounts at higher prices. If I sell 10000 units at $30 and then switch to hard cover at $50 a unit, it's natural if my print run drops to 6000. It's the same amount of money. The problem then though, is that there's 4000 less people who bought the codex and are now thinking about buying units for that army. So now the prices of the miniatures need to be slightly increased to make up for that. And it becomes the viscous circle of shedding customers that we've seen over the last decade. But it is a slow process. As long as GW can keep their costs under control, they'll have time to keep opening and re-opening single employee stores until the right combination of staff and location gives them a stable sales department.

GW can only become a company we'd all like to deal with if they have a change in leadership. Kirby seems committed to the current path and the early launch of 40k 7th edition seems to indicate that nothing is changing. The rules are still a tweak version that's compatible with previous codexes and the new unbound rules, daemons for more armies and the like seems to be continuing in their process of "rules designed to sell miniatures" game design. The rules are also slightly more expensive than the last time they were released.

Business as usual as long as the current board is around. And nothing really there worth taking over by a company like Hasbro or Bandai.

 frozenwastes wrote:
They're not strapped for cash yet.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:

Tannhauser42 wrote:They're not strapped for cash yet.

Then why all the cost cutting, raising of prices, and the obvious short term cash grab releases? These things would not be necessary if their deep pockets were full of coin, but these are the signs of a company struggling to look profitable to its investors.

Having lots of money on hand and being profitable are two different things. In fact, GW will undoubtedly be profitable when their financial report comes out in a few months. The issue is if they're LESS profitable than they were previously. That will mean their share price will probably take another dive and the overall value of the company will be lower, which technically means they'll be more likely to be bought out.

That being said, there's no reason to expect that they will be bought out anytime soon, but there's also no indication that they're going to turn that trend around. They don't reinvest in themselves, they cut everything to the bone, they don't market, and they don't really do anything to recruit new players, other than cross their fingers that some sap with $120 burning a hole in his pocket is going to wander into a poorly located one man store during one of the 38 1/2 hours per week it's actually open, and that the single, overwhelmed, borderline minimum wage employee can be an effective enough salesperson to get that sap to pay for little plastic army men.

But hey, that's what the shareholders want, right?

chaos0xomega wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

And I think that it is silly to make a claim, then fail to back it up.

*Shrug*

So, I am guessing that you didn't have any substantial remark to make, then?

You just wanted to complain?

The Auld Grump

GW is a much larger company than any of the ones you listed barring Hasbro/WOTC. When I say much larger, I mean in every sense of the term, Privateer Press, Fantasy Flight, etc. couldnt afford to purchase them, Fantasy Flight *might* have the best shot of them after Hasbro, but I really don't think they could manage it either.

With the exception of Hasbro, all of those companies were chosen as having some connection to GW - not by their size.

Some were started by ex-GW folks, one is publishing the GW RPGs.

They have a vested interest.

As I think I have mentioned, I think that the most likely scenario, in the event of GW sinking for the last time, is that the IP gets split up among any creditors, and sold off.

I also do not see the IP getting all that much money invested in the purchase.

GW is a big fish, but only because the pond is so small.

It may be worth noting that none of the companies started by folks that have left GW is being publicly traded - GW stands as a grim example of why going public is a bad idea for game companies.

Hasbro is also publicly traded, but comes in from buying other companies, rather than going public.

The Auld Grump

All of this is irrelevant, GW, its IPs, and assets are worth more than any of those companies can afford, its not about being a big fish in a small pond, its about having the resources to make an acquisition a reality. If GW is a a big fish than its a large tuna, hasbro is a great white shark, and the rest you listed are salmon. Do the math.

Equally irrelevant - the companies that can afford the GW IP likely do not need or want it.

The purpose of this thread, slight as it may be, is wish fulfillment, not logic.

As I have said before - I think that in the event of GW's demise the IP will be scattered among creditors, and sold off piecemeal.

In the event that it is sold off piecemeal then it becomes more possible for smaller companies to buy it.

But, to wax more fully - Privateer would be unlikely to purchase the IP. WARMAHordes is doing well for them, and is expanding into computer games. They do not need either Warhammer or Warhammer 40K.

Mantic - a real pipe dream. BUT, not only is it financially constrained, they also have their own set of rules for Fantasy, and, in my not at all humble opinion, those rules are vastly superior to those of Warhammer. Deadzone is, likewise, a very good game, if not scaled for larger battles in the same way as 40K.So, in The Auld Grump's Ideal World(TM) Mantic would be buying the GW miniatures, only.

Fantasy Flight... I think would do very well by the game, in the unlikely event that they could acquire the property. Likely better than Mantic, and more likely to maintain the current rule sets, if updated.

If it were not for the damage that would be done to smaller, 3rd party, companies... I would as soon see GW wither and die as see them continue to stumble on in their current fashion.

But, as mentioned above - GW grabbing itself by the collar, giving itself a good shake, and fixing the damned problems! would be the ideal solution, however unlikely I think that might be.

The Auld Grump