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 Frazzled wrote:

Wouldn't have worked nearly as well in the Exorcist.

The Power of Nothing compels you! The power of Nothing compels you!

Frazzie you win Post of the Week. Have an Exalt.

 dracpanzer wrote:
. This entire concept is offensive to the Chaplain corps. Who have been providing a voice of reason to American servicemen since its inception.

So tending to the moral and spiritual needs of atheists and non-theists with their own dedicated caplains is an insult to an institution dedicating to the moral and spiritual needs of people? :s

I was with you Silver but stopped at "spiritual"

 Jihadin wrote:
I was with you Silver but stopped at "spiritual"

Would it be better if spiritual referred to booze?

Negative

If booze is involve then I am dealing with a Alcohol Related incident or a Problem Drinker

 SilverMK2 wrote:

So tending to the moral and spiritual needs of atheists and non-theists with their own dedicated caplains is an insult to an institution dedicating to the moral and spiritual needs of people? :s

No. Assuming that Chaplains don't already see to the mental well being of their charges no matter their beliefs is insulting. We had one chaplain in our battalion of over 850 Marines. They were capable of giving a legitimite service to any number of faiths. Yes they wore that many hats! Assuming that Atheists somehow would not be properly served in the same fashion is insulting. The Chaplain Corps is comprised of great individuals who care deeply for ALL their charges.

 SilverMK2 wrote:
I can't speak for the group but if their duties include ministering to other faiths I would imagine the person who applied for and trained for the position would be more than happy to step in to do such things. If I knew how, I'd be happy to lead a religious group if no one more suitable were available and I am extremely non-religious.

It's been said that more often than not atheists know religions (in particular Christianity) better than the believers do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To be fair though, this group probably just wanted to min-max our troops for when they make a charge.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I fail to see the added benefit of an atheist 'chaplain'.
Can someone please explain to me what in Heaven's name an atheist chaplain is supposed to do? Pray to nothing?

While the prayer got a chuckle from me, did you read the thread where its been explained what chaplains probably spend most of their time doing?

But if that is truly the case... Why have an Atheist chaplain at all when any of them will do?

Plus, its not like you're going to have access to one if you want one. Its not like each member of the military has access to a chaplain of their preferred religion at all times, even when they're at a base in the States.

Not to mention people who don't have a religion asking to have a religious position just seems silly.

 Grey Templar wrote:


But if that is truly the case... Why have an Atheist chaplain at all when any of them will do?

Plus, its not like you're going to have access to one if you want one. Its not like each member of the military has access to a chaplain of their preferred religion at all times, even when they're at a base in the States.

Not to mention people who don't have a religion asking to have a religious position just seems silly. Its attention grabbing and nothing more.

Any of the can do, for sure, but as you can imagine, most people would probably feel more comfortable with someone of their belief.

And sure, not every base has every representative, but how is that a point against including atheistic chaplains?

Finally, its not purely a religious position anymore. As more and more people are becoming less religious, the need still exists for someone outside the chain of command that is still distinctly military to help provide the services they do. I feel that's been covered fairly well so far. Things change and evolve, why not the chaplain position?

What the heck is an athiest chaplain? Is that just a sideways term for counseler?

If they, the Senate, which seems to be Democrats, press it. I see a position of a "Counselor" or something with a acronym being invented to cover the Atheist. How will rank progression go though? If a Atheist Counselor hit Field Grade rank then we might have a interesting dilemma in the Chaplain Corp

How do Christians deal with non-Christian Chaplains? Do Jews speak with Christian or Muslim Chaplains? What about Muslims?

Are these groups able to deal with "opposing" Chaplains?

Your not locked into the unit Chaplain assigned to battalion. Its well known where you can find a Chaplain of your belief either on post that the US Military recognized or contact numbers of those with faith that does not have a Chaplain available to them.

Better throw this out before someone hammer the origin of Chaplain. The US Military consider the title "Chaplain" to encompass all Spiritual Leader. Chaplain is not in the Chain of Command also.

 d-usa wrote:
How do Christians deal with non-Christian Chaplains? Do Jews speak with Christian or Muslim Chaplains? What about Muslims?

Are these groups able to deal with "opposing" Chaplains?

At the military college up here, we had two chaplains; an RC and a Prot.

With a student body of 1200 people from all over the country, there were bound to be people who didn't fall into those two categories (even Christians of different sects). For major religious events, the students would have to organize for a private session with a religious figure from in town to come in, or go in town for their religious needs, or just pray by themselves in a generic temple thing for everyone. Alternatively, there would be a large service for everyone who wasn't a Christian on events that were Christian oriented.

For non-religious needs, but still requiring the aid of a chaplain (dealing with suicides, as an example), you'd just call whoever was on duty. To that end, their faith didn't matter too much, but I can see some of the more zealous or protective of my religious friends disliking speaking to a chaplain not of their faith/denomination.

So yeah, anyone not a Christian at that school had to deal with Christian chaplains for anything that might pertain to their duties. Not ideal, but they were good people.

So it's not a problem specific to Atheists then?

 d-usa wrote:
So it's not a problem specific to Atheists then?

No.

 d-usa wrote:
How do Christians deal with non-Christian Chaplains? Do Jews speak with Christian or Muslim Chaplains? What about Muslims?

Are these groups able to deal with "opposing" Chaplains?

I imagine that Christian chaplains try to be as non-denominational as possible. Lutherans, Anglicans, Catholics and Orthodox can all receive communion from one another and when you're in a combat situation any spirituality is better than none.

In addition, Jews, Christians and Muslims all recognize each other as people of the book, so at least on a morality level they are simmilar. (As in, an immam, rabbi and priest will all probably offer the same spiritual advice for dealing with the pressures of combat)

 Blacksails wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
So it's not a problem specific to Atheists then?

No.

Thanks for clarifying.

Not that "well, other people have to deal with it so screw them" is a valid excuse, but I was just wondering if Atheists have a unique problem.

Is "I have to talk to somebody who believes in a God when I believe in another" worse/better/the same as "I have to talk to somebody who believes in a God when I believe in none"?

 d-usa wrote:

Is "I have to talk to somebody who believes in a God when I believe in another" worse/better/the same as "I have to talk to somebody who believes in a God when I believe in none"?

Well, "try praying for it" will not be very helpful...

 daedalus wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

Is "I have to talk to somebody who believes in a God when I believe in another" worse/better/the same as "I have to talk to somebody who believes in a God when I believe in none"?

Well, "try praying for it" will not be very helpful...

Well, giving religious advice to non-religious people will always be the wrong answer of course.

Do Chaplains always give religious advice though?

 d-usa wrote:


Do Chaplains always give religious advice though?

Also no.

here's a article about a marine chaplain that get's into what he does:

http://www.dvidshub.net/news/124699/marine-turned-chaplain-explains-roles-religious-ministries#.U3GCQijFli5

But as many theists like to claim that atheism is a religion, than they should also have chaplains. Although I'd rather have a Jedi for a counselor

sirlynchmob wrote:
Although I'd rather have a Jedi for a counselor

We all do.

 Jihadin wrote:
Chaplain is not in the Chain of Command also.

I thought they held the rank of Captain? Or at least equal to a Captain.

A Chaplain cannot assume a leadership position. It will go his/her belief being in charge of troops that has a main goal of opting out individuals.

 Jihadin wrote:
A Chaplain cannot assume a leadership position. It will go his/her belief being in charge of troops that has a main goal of opting out individuals.

That's a shame; because in the urban combat situations that our modern armed forces often find themselves in, re-rolling failed hits would be a huge force multiplier.

 Ouze wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
A Chaplain cannot assume a leadership position. It will go his/her belief being in charge of troops that has a main goal of opting out individuals.

That's a shame; because in the urban combat situations that our modern armed forces often find themselves in, re-rolling failed hits would be a huge force multiplier.

Don't worry, he's still an IC

I think the Navy has vastly different experiences with chaplains than the rest of you guys.

I'm an atheist. I wouldn't want atheist chaplains. They'd probably be even nuttier than the religious ones.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Chaplain is not in the Chain of Command also.

I thought they held the rank of Captain? Or at least equal to a Captain.

The best chaplain I ever dealt with was an O6. Prior SF enlisted guy in Vietnam. Had served in the ranger regiment as a chaplain. I remember when one of my troopers wanted to marry a local (we were stationed overseas) who was clearly after nothing more than an ID card and a ticket to The BIg PX, Chaplain D gave him the following advice:

Son, I don't see any wings on your chest, you're not Airborne are you?

No Sir

Well, my advice is instead of marrying this girl, you go to Airborne School. At least a parachute has a chance of letting you down easy instead of hard

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Chaplain is not in the Chain of Command also.

I thought they held the rank of Captain? Or at least equal to a Captain.

They do have rank, they have to get paid, but they are outside of the command structure. A chaplain has no "real" authority. That's not to say that they don't have authority though. It's an interesting world...