Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
troa wrote: Because it's a step in the right direction, perhaps, Blacksails? Once you are at a "GW is evil, they are terrible!" mindset then nothing they do is worth acknowledging as positive, and that's where you're at. I'd encourage you to find a new hobby, since you hate GW that much. You won't be satisfied until EVERYTHING you think is wrong is fixed to your liking, and that will never happen.
Fair enough, however it might take a few more steps in a positive direction before GW deserves much recognition. Remember, despite the glut* of information GW is providing about 7th edition, they still pulled the rug out from under the fan base by shortening the life span of 6th edition by at least 2 years. So, a few videos are nice, and a cynic could argue NECESSARY to stave off a tidal wave of anger from the aforementioned rug-less fans, but it is a drop in the bucket compared to the antics GW is pulling with 7th edition and has pulled for the last few years with questionable rule and model releases.
It might be premature to dust off the knee pads for the GW suck-a-thon just yet.
*This is sarcasm. Some videos and hearsay from GW reps is still crap marketing, especially in 2014.
If it is a step in the right direction, then you typically want to acknowledge that, and encourage further steps. Basic "how to get people to improve" methodology. If the changes were all misguided, than you acknowledge that as well, don't get me wrong, but if there are good changes then you MUST acknowledge those.
Going "you suck still!" just encourages more of the past undesirable behavior, as the attempt at improvement goes unnoticed. It's as simple as that. It also indicates you should take a break from the forums, and worrying about what GW is doing, as it's apparently aggravating.
Objective feedback is useful, pure anger reactions are not, and are why forums (which SHOULD be a GREAT place for them to get info!) are fairly worthless. Reading over the forums the last couple years, I'd say that it's not hard to argue that the community seems to constantly want overhaul and standardization, which for the GW business model means a new edition.
Yes, they do have lots of improvement to go. But if one is jaded it's time to move on.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/14 17:13:20
I'll also mention that pictures of this weeks WDW, which were photos of another users own personal copy of the mag, that I'd rehosted on Photobucket were taken down today at someone's (presumably a GW employee) request for copyright violation.
So that's time and money wasted to find the pics and inform Photobucket, but not only that, those pics were being used solely to generate interest in their product. The Internet being what it is, they're out there now, so it was a futile exercise, whose objective seems to have been, once again, to handicap people trying to promote GW's products.
I have no doubt that there probably was some sort of violation in reproducing pages from a magazine that isn't officially out yet, but surely one has to look at the longer game here? Just because you're legally allowed to do something, doesn't mean its a good idea, or in your best interest, to do so.
So, yeah, a long way to go.
PS If anyone hasn't seen those pics and wants to, they're still up on the FB page I link to in my sig!
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
H.B.M.C. wrote: I bought an expensive massive book less than 2 years ago. I then bought two expensive expansions less than a year ago.
I won't be buying another.
I think a lot of people probably feel the same way.
I also think it's pretty amusing to say that they are 'improving' when it has never been more expensive to get a collection of rules and get the damned models on the tabletop. This whole thing has got 'fleece them' written all over it, and I feel sorry for the dedicated fans that are going to be reaching into their pockets again and again if they just want to continue to play the game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/14 17:18:24
troa wrote: If it is a step in the right direction, then you typically want to acknowledge that, and encourage further steps. Basic "how to get people to improve" methodology. If the changes were all misguided, than you acknowledge that as well, don't get me wrong, but if there are good changes then you MUST acknowledge those.
GW is not a child that needs encouragement to keep going. They are a multinational corporation. I expect them to always strive for the best because they should want to for innumerable reasons. Further, meeting the bare minimums is not something to be praised. It should simply be accepted. I don't have to acknowledge anything, let alone when a corporation finally does something they should have been doing for a decade.
Going "you suck still!" just encourages more of the past undesirable behavior, as the attempt at improvement goes unnoticed. It's as simple as that. It also indicates you should take a break from the forums, and worrying about what GW is doing, as it's apparently aggravating.
Point out where I said 'you suck still'. If you'll recall, I said 'not deserving of praise'. Then I further went to qualify that with what it would take for me to acknowledge their positive moves. Going back to point number one; GW is not a child that needs to be given a gold star for doing the bare minimum everyone else in the industry has been doing for years. I stay active on these boards because I still care about 40k. GW, being the owner of this game means that anything that happens to 40k is a direct result of GW, therefore I find myself commenting. You know, discussing things, on a discussion board. You also seem to be attributing emotions to my post that aren't there; if anything, I'm constantly disappointed by GW, as I want them to succeed and 40k to be a good game that I want to introduce more people to.
Objective feedback is useful, pure anger reactions are not, and are why forums (which SHOULD be a GREAT place for them to get info!) are fairly worthless. Reading over the forums the last couple years, I'd say that it's not hard to argue that the community seems to constantly want overhaul and standardization, which for the GW business model means a new edition.
Point out the anger in my posts. Feedback and criticism (on these boards in particular) is often mistaken for anger, or 'hating' as some people like to call it. The forums are a great place for gleaning info, its that many people mistake anything that isn't 100% positive as beeing raging trash, which couldn't be further from the truth.
Yes, they do have lots of improvement to go. But if one is jaded it's time to move on.
Maybe I'm jaded, but that doesn't mean I can't stick around here and weigh my opinion on these matters as the game still matters to me.
Azreal has a good quote in his signature block.
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias!
Some small city in nowhere, Illinois,United States
I kind of agree with BlackSails on this. This is the step in the right direction, but this is what should be required for them, not something of praise for doing something good and just breathing.
They really need to go above and beyond to impress me, but that is just me.
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
Tanakosyke22 wrote: I kind of agree with BlackSails on this. This is the step in the right direction, but this is what should be required for them, not something of praise for doing something good and just breathing.
They really need to go above and beyond to impress me, but that is just me.
I personally don't feel like they have to go above and beyond, I just feel like they need to put in the average amount of effort and engagement with their customers that any other company would in this modern social media world. Have a twitter account. Have a Facebook page or a blog-type site where reps from the company interact with the community. If they could get to that point, with me at least, they would win a lot of good will.
The problem, I think, is their business model is so WTF that it makes those interactions extraordinarily painful for them, so they are completely withdrawn from it.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Tanakosyke22 wrote: I kind of agree with BlackSails on this. This is the step in the right direction, but this is what should be required for them, not something of praise for doing something good and just breathing.
They really need to go above and beyond to impress me, but that is just me.
I personally don't feel like they have to go above and beyond, I just feel like they need to put in the average amount of effort and engagement with their customers that any other company would in this modern social media world. Have a twitter account. Have a Facebook page or a blog-type site where reps from the company interact with the community. If they could get to that point, with me at least, they would win a lot of good will.
The problem, I think, is their business model is so WTF that it makes those interactions extraordinarily painful for them, so they are completely withdrawn from it.
I guess that is fair enough. Although I have to say that, as you put it, those interaction would be strenous as best since Games Workshop have dug itself into. At least if they did that then they are starting to do it right.
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
dereksatkinson wrote: Maybe we could all just refuse to buy GW models on Tuesdays. I hear that worked great for sending a message to oil companies.
Won't do any good.
Thanks to the one man store program, nearly every shop is closed on a Tuesday.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
dereksatkinson wrote: Maybe we could all just refuse to buy GW models on Tuesdays. I hear that worked great for sending a message to oil companies.
Won't do any good.
Thanks to the one man store program, nearly every shop is closed on a Tuesday.
Even then it wouldn't matter since it wouldn't change most of our purchasing patterns enough to make a difference. I mean how many of us are buying stuff on a weekly basis to make GW notice a sudden shift like that?
Heck, even if everyone who participated did we'd need to go longer than a single day every week, and then they'd just fire the GW store managers for not meeting their sales goals.
Is it confirmed that the mini-rulebook in the boxed set will NOT have the full rules in it.
If that's the case, I'm even more annoyed with GW. Being able to get the boxed set mini rulebook 2nd hand has kept me in at least two editions of 40k. If it's not complete anymore, then the new rulebook is even less satisfying.
More to the point, I see nothing "Good on GW" for releasing a new ruleset (no matter how it's bound) that is only moderatly more expensive than it's predecessor and accompanied by codices that are considerably more so.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/14 22:05:01
dereksatkinson wrote: Maybe we could all just refuse to buy GW models on Tuesdays. I hear that worked great for sending a message to oil companies.
Won't do any good.
Thanks to the one man store program, nearly every shop is closed on a Tuesday.
Even then it wouldn't matter since it wouldn't change most of our purchasing patterns enough to make a difference. I mean how many of us are buying stuff on a weekly basis to make GW notice a sudden shift like that?
Heck, even if everyone who participated did we'd need to go longer than a single day every week, and then they'd just fire the GW store managers for not meeting their sales goals.
I'm trying to compromise. I don't like the fact that the new edition is coming out so early but at the same time I want to stay relevant with people at the FLGS. So I've decided to wait until a rules-only edition of the book comes out or I can purchase just the rules on eBay for a reasonable price.
In the past I've been very supportive of GW, I have my Collector's 6th Edition, number 2144 out of 4000. It is a pretty damn nice book, I certainly won't be getting rid of it, it cost $130 at the time! But it only lasted half the time, and that to me severely decreases the value of any future books (since a significant portion of the value comes from the application of the rules themselves).
I imagine that if others are similarly-minded then sales of 7th will be affected. But of course I'm not here to shout anyone down from buying the book, more just detailing my perspective.
Eilif wrote: Is it confirmed that the mini-rulebook in the boxed set will NOT have the full rules in it.
If that's the case, I'm even more annoyed with GW. Being able to get the boxed set mini rulebook 2nd hand has kept me in at least two editions of 40k. If it's not complete anymore, then the new rulebook is even less satisfying.
That makes sense, GW is trying to extract maximum money from their customers in any way possible. I think the mini-rulebook was one of the last items of great quality per cost.
It's either that or Tom Kirby finally discovered eBay, and the great Gnashing of Teeth began.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/14 22:06:41
Im gonna let GW slip on the early new edition, only because with the exception of unbound and demon lore, its pretty decent sounding.
But if they try do another edition shortly after I will not go further.
In saying that though a 3 part book sounds so much better than the usual mega book. There is more to like about what they are releasing and how they are releasing it over most of their releases.
Sorry, there's NFW I am getting on this bandwagon. Take your optimism and EAT IT.
Seriously, GW is going to have us paying for new rules systems continuously. I am still getting used to 6th edition and now the whole thing is about to change.
I know people who have bought entire new armies - $2k+ - because the stuff they had in 5th edition no longer works. Are we really saying we are all content with that? Like, I see Thousand Sons suddenly about to become the OP uber unit - is that what everyone actually wants, a situation that is set up where the company can just screw with the rules to drive sales? Where there's constant churn, and you need to learn things over again and again?
I am through paying through the nose for GW's miniatures and no way am I buying into this new edition. Getting out the 2nd edition rules right now to build a World Eaters army with librarians.
I fail to see how this is a good thing. You shouldn't be thanking a company for not screwing you as hard as they could. You shouldn't be thanking them at all for getting something right once or getting one thing right in the middle of a debacle such as a new $85 rulebook 2 years after the last $80 rulebook. There's nothing good about the situation.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
RAGE
Be sure to use logic! Avoid fallacies whenever possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
They arent screwing anybody. Dont buy the damn thing if you dont like it. You are only screwing yourself if you buy it.
just stick to older editions if that's what you want. But this edition shows some real promise (in my opinion) to improving almost all the problems I have had with 40k.
If its an improvement im happy, especially since they literally have improved everything except force organisation so far.
I found 4th boring. I hated 5th. I gave 6th a chance because I saw genuine improvements in the rules... and it's done and dusted in 2 years. I won't be dragged in again. They've lost me.
Sorry, but I think that is a matter of debate. People who have already invested in an army and want to keep it relevant are faced with a real dilemma: either pay the ever inflating prices, or quit the mainstream game. Since neither option is attractive I would argue that those people are in fact being screwed. It isn't just a simple don't like it don't buy it deal. It is more akin maintenance costs. People are stuck between not liking it, but also being committed and invested in their army. That's before we even talk about the quality of the maintenance work.
Swastakowey wrote: Well what is no longer relevant in the update with the exception of the main rule book?
That is quite an overwhelming exception, when the rulebook is coming in at £50 a pop. Especially considering that the necessary part would probably fit in short pamphlet.
4500 
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress 
