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So I see that hardly anyone uses shielded missile drones with their Riptides, but doesn't anyone use missile drones with their broadsides and does anyone run them with buffmanders? Wondering how effective or otherwise people find drones and given that I've just built a reasonable sized triptide list, I've got a bit to chose from in terms of drones... Is there a great use?

Missle drones for Broadsides are pretty bad. They only offer two S7 shots at BS2. By contrast, Broadsides offer four S7 shots at twinlinked BS3 - they do 4.5 times more damage before you even consider their twin-linked smart missile systems (so broadsides actually give you more firepower per point cost). They have the additional downside of forcing morale checks on your broadside teams when they get destroyed. Shield drones are a better source of ablative wounds (the only source of invulnerable saves for Broadsides), and marker drones synergize pretty well with misslesides (since markerlights and HYMPs share a 36" range). EDIT: I'm wrong about the markerlights, your broadsides don't benefit from them.

The shielded missile drones for Riptides are pretty meh. They offer negligible firepower, at much shorter ranges and worse AP than the Riptide's ion accelerator. They're a risky option for ablative wounds, since they force a morale check on your Riptide if they die. They let you do some majority toughness shenanigans with the buffmander, but that's it.

I run marker drones. In my crises suit lists i have a 3 man crises suit squad with 6 burst cannons and one marker drone. I also run a 5 drone marker squad lead by a commander.

Without being networked, can the unit benefit from their own marker drones?

Kholzerino wrote:
Without being networked, can the unit benefit from their own marker drones?

You're right, the Broadsides in the same unit wouldn't benefit from them. I guess they're less useful than I thought.

I've actually built my Taudar list with, currently, no marker lights. I'm buffing with a Farseer and a buffmander. Is this an okay idea?

If by buffmander you mean drone controller, it doesn't work as it only works on marker and gun.

Shield drones I use frequently. A stealth team with two shield drones is a tough unit to remove from the table.

But offensive drones are kinda meh. I have used marker drones but aside from that nothing else.

Issue with the shielded missile drones is its 25pts (2 drones +1pt worth) for the same 4++ protection that is easily removed with infantry fire. Yes, its T6, but who cares when its a single wound and only a 4++? Group of 5 marines are pretty much guaranteed to cause 1 wound and remove it, forcing a leadership test. If they were 2+ armor 4++ invul, or had a better BS, i would take them - but as it is, i hate them as theyre so expensive for 2 S7 shots at BS2.

Broadsides, on the other hand, are awesome. I dont know why people dont bring them sometimes. Yes, theyre BS2, but heres the thing - thats 12 more S7 AP4 missiles IN ADDITION to the 12 TL ones on the broadsides. Theres two benefits here - one is ablative wounds, as until late game most of the guns that are going to hit your broadsides will not have the RoF to clear the drones out in one go unless it poses no threat to the broadsides to begin with (barring bad luck). Droneless broadsides will die to random lascannons in an instant, but not with drones around.
They also benefit from markerlights and do NOT snapfire when they move, so if you move and supply ML's to buff their BS back up then the drones are way better as well.

And before anyone comments about the leadership issue, i run mine with an Ethereal hiding between the suits and a bubble of FW out front. Ive never lost my ethereal in dozens of games barring a table-clear loss - which is rare. Which also helps their movement from Zephyr's Grace, but thats another topic.

Gun Drones are kinda bleh imo unless theres a commander with a DC around. Be surprised how fast a squad of 10 drones that got dumped off of 5 piranhas attached to a commander with 2 bursts and 2 of his own drones can squish opponents. Thats 8 S5 AP5 nontwinlinked shots and 24 that are twinlinked, all at BS5. Its nuts lol.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Missle drones for Broadsides are pretty bad. They only offer two S7 shots at BS2. By contrast, Broadsides offer four S7 shots at twinlinked BS3 - they do 4.5 times more damage before you even consider their twin-linked smart missile systems (so broadsides actually give you more firepower per point cost). They have the additional downside of forcing morale checks on your broadside teams when they get destroyed. Shield drones are a better source of ablative wounds

I disagree, except on the risk of morale checks. However, any drones can cause this.

Sure, broadsides do more damage than a single missile drone, they also have a much better statline and smart missiles, muti trackers, blacksun filters, etc. They also cost over 5 times the price of a missile drone. Comparing the two is not really a fair argument, but we can measure the damage for the cost.

Assuming only the high yield missile pods are firing, comparing a single broadside to 5 missile drones(which cost less than a barebones missileside).
The broadside averages 3 hits
The drones average 3.3333 hits

BS2 sucks, particularly compared to BS3 twin linked, but for the cost missile drones are far from garbage. Shield drones do have an invul save, but they can't shoot. Missile drones have armor, and if your playing broadsides I highly doubt your playing them in the open, so they have cover too. Few weapons will punch drone armor, cover and actually threaten the broadsides. Unless you have S8+, ap2 or better, broadsides can shrug off wounds through armor and cover. The drones die first regardless; it is foolish to risk the units and models who will take the drones with them if they die. A full broadside team with 6 drones has the firepower of 4 broadsides at missile pod range, for about the same cost. However, you get a ton of bullet sponges. BS2 is not always an issue, as again you are buying these as defensive upgrades that shoot. If your running EWO sides, they might be called to AA duty, and the whole squad will be BS1, so BS won't matter there. For an interceptor shot on a non air target, the more missiles the better. If you are really concerned, a drone controller gives the drones BS3.

All drones are ultimately ablative wounds for the crisis suits, so you have to wager the cost of losing a battlesuit against the cost of failing morale due to losing a drone. An easy way to fix this on any battlesuit team is to take a 'vre. It also makes sense to bond any battlesuit team that has more drones than suits. For a few bones, 1-2 battlesuits can change a game if they rally.
Broadsides are stationary shooty units, so they can easily fix the leadership issue by taking an ethereal. They bubble the ethereal in 2+ saves, drones, and missiles while the ethereal gives them fearless and 6+fnp. If your running fire warriors and/or kroot, they can benefit from this. Alternatively, you can run a buffmander in the squad, making the drones BS5(drone controller) with twin linked shots ignoring cover+tank hunters/monster hunter as needed. In both cases the IC can look out sir, handing wounds to the drones who die in their stead. This is particularly useful for ethereals.

There's really only one circumstance in which I think shielded missile drones are worth taking: an O'Vesa star.

Vineheart01 pretty much nailed it. Volume of fire -- especially from modest strength weaponry like scatter lasers or punisher cannons -- is more than adequate to remove the shield drones. At 25 ppm, you can't afford to be losing them like that. But let's consider O'Vesa.

Someone at Games Workshop decided it's be a brilliant idea to give a Riptide the Independent Character rule, and now O'vesa can tank small arms fire on his 2+ save while passing AP1, AP2, and rending wounds onto the drones. This is sickeningly effective, and made all the more so by a Commander that lets those drones reroll misses, reroll wounds vs. MCs, reroll armor penetration, and ignore cover.

 Dr. Serling wrote:
If you are really concerned, a drone controller gives the drones BS3.

Drone Controllers only work on gun drones, marker drones, and sniper drones.

 Dr. Serling wrote:
The drones die first regardless; it is foolish to risk the units and models who will take the drones with them if they die.

If your running EWO sides, they might be called to AA duty, and the whole squad will be BS1, so BS won't matter there. For an interceptor shot on a non air target, the more missiles the better.

Snipped a few bits out of the above. First, I agree missile drones are good on broadsides, just two quick questions.

The way I remember it, in the new book, drones don't disappear if the squad that took them dies. Are you sure they do? Don't have my codex on me.

Second part, the broadsides taking EWO's doesn't give the drones intercept does it? Again, I can check when I get home but wanted to know sooner haha.

My regular opponent uses masses of drones. I enjoy playing them with my DE. First round I typically will strip most of his units of them in my first volley. Its really fun when he doesn't take bonding for some reason. I would say no, they are not on competitive lists simply for the points you are giving to an opponent and not using for something more useful.

No, drones dont disappear anymore when the unit dies. They have changed the rules for them quite a bit.

Drones used to prevent IC's from attaching to a unit, since they were considered a unit on their own. Now they form a single IC "unit" until they attach to something, then its just the commander himself. Should commander die on his own with just his drones, drones are still around and in fact must be killed before the points are awarded. If hes attached to a unit, the drones become part of the unit forever and the point is awarded even though the drones he bought are still alive.

Drones also used to be scoring bodies They were only able to be on their own if departed from a vehicle, thus counted as no particular FOC choice, or as FA so they couldnt score unless given the Scouring rules. But they could deny and take Linebreaker awards in any mode.
Now, units comprised entirely of drones (meaning this does NOT include the Mark'O combination as theres a suit in the mix) cannot score or deny...period. Thats our tradeoff for no longer losing them if the suits die and/or being allowed to have an IC buy them and still attach to other units.

Dont believe me? Look in the codex in the page-sized box talking about drones. The rules for drones are surprisingly clear, minus the typo that only broadsides can take missiles lol.

Deep-striking in drone teams for area denial can be quite good.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Deep-striking in drone teams for area denial can be quite good.

Unfortunately not anymore. Unless they are attached to a deepstriking suit team, they cannot deny or land you Linebreaker. Even in the Scouring, as the rules for that and other such specific situation scoring rules says "unless the unit is specifically denied scoring" which sadly drones are if they are purely drones.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Deep-striking in drone teams for area denial can be quite good.

Unfortunately not anymore. Unless they are attached to a deepstriking suit team, they cannot deny or land you Linebreaker. Even in the Scouring, as the rules for that and other such specific situation scoring rules says "unless the unit is specifically denied scoring" which sadly drones are if they are purely drones.

AREA DENIAL IS NOT THE SAME AS OBJECTIVE DENIAL GODDAMMIT!

No need to fly off the hinges over a misread post. Youre talking about simply being in the way, not objectives. That yes theyre good for, and is part of the reason i bring 5 piranhas as it also gives me 10 "free" drones to be a mobile wall with guns my opponent doesnt WANT to deal with but has to.

i misread your post, my bad.

Sorry about that. People keep doing that to me, and it gets irritating after a while.

Kholzerino wrote:
So I see that hardly anyone uses shielded missile drones with their Riptides, but doesn't anyone use missile drones with their broadsides and does anyone run them with buffmanders? Wondering how effective or otherwise people find drones and given that I've just built a reasonable sized triptide list, I've got a bit to chose from in terms of drones... Is there a great use?

I think that they overpriced them. Its an invul save AS WELL AS a Missile but still. Kinda spendy. and making a riptide NOT Fearless (which could change in 7E if all Monsters are made Fearless) made the Drones not nearly as attractive.

But having said that, the Drones are seriously angry firepower when you consider the propensity of Tau like myself to use Markerlights. The Drones PRIMARY usefulness in my mind is on Heavy Railgun Broadsides. I prefer the Heavy Railgun (and yes, I'm aware of its STR). However with the Drones you kind of get the best of both worlds. So if you're willing to invest in the broadsides, I'd say tghe Missile Drones have a LOT of usefulnss on the Railsides.

 Jancoran wrote:

Kholzerino wrote:
So I see that hardly anyone uses shielded missile drones with their Riptides, but doesn't anyone use missile drones with their broadsides and does anyone run them with buffmanders? Wondering how effective or otherwise people find drones and given that I've just built a reasonable sized triptide list, I've got a bit to chose from in terms of drones... Is there a great use?

I think that they overpriced them. Its an invul save AS WELL AS a Missile but still. Kinda spendy. and making a riptide NOT Fearless (which could change in 7E if all Monsters are made Fearless) made the Drones not nearly as attractive.

But having said that, the Drones are seriously angry firepower when you consider the propensity of Tau like myself to use Markerlights. The Drones PRIMARY usefulness in my mind is on Heavy Railgun Broadsides. I prefer the Heavy Railgun (and yes, I'm aware of its STR). However with the Drones you kind of get the best of both worlds. So if you're willing to invest in the broadsides, I'd say tghe Missile Drones have a LOT of usefulnss on the Railsides.

You know that's not a terrible idea, I miss the old Railsides and have been trying to find a reason to throw them back in my lists.

Marker drones plus a battlesuit commander with a DC offer a points-efficient, mobile, survivable source of markerlight hits. Well worth it if you want to be concentrating fire from multiple strong units onto one target each turn.

I am not sure on your area but my area is flooded with st7. I have started putting my broadsides in a bastion. It holds 20 models which a broadside takes up 5. So i can fit 3 broadsides and a commander in a bastion. Granted they have a short range but they cover a massive area and are immune to small arms fire. If they shoot the bastion with high str weapons then they aren't attacking my skyray or riptide. I also use it with a commander and marker drones, they jump up shoot their bs5 marker lights then jump down. the top of a bastion can fit a quad gun and 7 models quiet well on the top.

Doesnt the bastion limit their fire though? Thought the bastion only had 1 fire port per side, leaving to an absolute max of 2 units firing at the same unit assuming its in the right spot?

Could technically Target Lock all 3 of them and shoot from all 3 ports at 3 different units though, i guess.

I run 2 8-10 drone "Drone Walls" in my lists as sort of a moving screen. It is an tactic I carried over my 'nid lists. Works very well especially against fast assault lists. Marker lights can make the cover save effectively one way .

Ethereals giving gun drones 3 TL pinning shots at 9" is surprisingly effective on a 10 drones squad, and makes Overwatch nasty. plus that 20 in front means I have a lot of units with in 6" for supporting fire.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Marker drones plus a battlesuit commander with a DC offer a points-efficient, mobile, survivable source of markerlight hits. Well worth it if you want to be concentrating fire from multiple strong units onto one target each turn.

Not that point-efficient unless the commander gets multiple other things done too.

Lets assume a naked commander with 8 drones are 205 points grant 6.66 hits, meaning you pay 30 points per hit, a pathfinder does it for 22 points per hit. while drones ARE more mobile, and more durable-they fall at the pure marker efficiency.
Not the worst marker source (still beats fire warrior team leaders by far), but not the best either.

You CAN get more drones to boost efficiency, but as they all shoot as one, that will quickly flow into overkill, heck in my opinion 8 drones are ALREADY an overkill, how often do you need more then 6ish markerlights on the same target? that tank/squad is DEAD as long you got a decent number of guns to aim at it.


So, either the commander gets something else done (my favorite is a hybrid team of 6 marker drones and 3 missile suits with target locks and a target locked missile commander, if not all out buff commander), or you might as well go for something else.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Doesnt the bastion limit their fire though? Thought the bastion only had 1 fire port per side, leaving to an absolute max of 2 units firing at the same unit assuming its in the right spot?

Could technically Target Lock all 3 of them and shoot from all 3 ports at 3 different units though, i guess.

It has 2 sides with one and 2 sides with 3. Also 2 models can fire out of each of it's firing ports. And as a fortification it provides the riptide behind it a 3+ cover save.

Sargow wrote:
I am not sure on your area but my area is flooded with st7. I have started putting my broadsides in a bastion. It holds 20 models which a broadside takes up 5. So i can fit 3 broadsides and a commander in a bastion. Granted they have a short range but they cover a massive area and are immune to small arms fire. If they shoot the bastion with high str weapons then they aren't attacking my skyray or riptide. I also use it with a commander and marker drones, they jump up shoot their bs5 marker lights then jump down. the top of a bastion can fit a quad gun and 7 models quiet well on the top.

Bastions add to the price of the unit and limits them to one spot, from which the enemy can shrink if you use missiles. if you're not using missiles, the bastion isn't necessary.

So catch 22 in my estimation. Ergo why having the Drones might be a better way to go.

So...............for Bastions.........

Access Points & Fire Points: As per model.


So since its a medium building can fit 20 models(unsure if its that or 30) I can park 3 full Broadside squads with drones inside and blast away each turn.

Drones are good in my estimate. If you have the points they add ablative wounds.

 foto69man wrote:
So...............for Bastions.........

Access Points & Fire Points: As per model.


So since its a medium building can fit 20 models(unsure if its that or 30) I can park 3 full Broadside squads with drones inside and blast away each turn.

Drones are good in my estimate. If you have the points they add ablative wounds.

I am almost 100% certain that it is still limited to 1 unit per building


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd say that drones CAN be good.... I love ablative wounds, but hate the LD checks they force