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Unlikely, if you can pool all psykers to assure a single spell they dont even know, why wont you be able to pool all of them for a dispell?

I think you need to be close enough to the one casting the spell to even try to deny it though.

So basically spamming Psykers is the way to go?

Not really, its actually a clever design as you need multiple psykers to assure your stuff go off-but you get diminishing returns for every psyker after the first, as the "free D6 warp points" you get needs to be split among them all.

No psykers-wasted "free" points.
One/two psykers-risk not having enough warp points to punch crucial spells through psyker defenses.
Psyker spam-more warp points all around, less warp point avilable per psyker though.

There is no "right" answer the psyker game becomes a mini rock-paper-sicessors of its own when few psykers are best against no psykers, a spam will be good against a few, and against a spam you'd rather not even bother.

Now in "ties", either neither has and, so the field is equal, both have tons so nothing IMPORTANT will punch through, or each got very little, meaning its a game magnets where both side's pskyers are better as long they keep away from each other, and the first to nuke the enemy psyker takes over the psyking part of the game.
Unless one side got vastly superior psykers or some other edge ofc. (say ahriman will beat a level 1 libby in psyking every time, so he DOES prefer to get up close to him)

Overall I agree with what boomwolf is saying but keep in mind we still don't have (unless I missed it) details on how the pychic dice can be modified. If some psykers get a success on a 3+ instead of a 4+ it could change how many you may want to field by being able to stretch your D6 extra further.

Imagine a list with Be'lakor, Ahriman and Fateweaver...

Why? to get tons of dice?

Just spam pink horrors and heralds if that's what you are after, you can get 4 heralds and 6 horror teams for 30 mastery levels.

NO spells will trigger anywhere near you, but against psykerless lists? meh, such a wasted effort.


As said-the more you cast, the less value each independant cast has, as the d6 gets spread too thin.

I think I'll still keep my 1 Farseer, 1 Autarch combo for my Eldar army.

Supposedly one of the mechanics is affinity so that the whole 4+ cast a spell is not completely true but that is just rumour.

Basically if someone is trying to go with a Psychic Army and you don't bring a Psyker and they roll a 1 on the Warp charge , they dominate that phase.

Keep in mind you will likely also have limits on how many dice you can toss at a given power.

One of the rumors stated that hypothetical level is ML+1.

So ML 3 Farseer would be able to throw 4 dice maximum at a spell. This sounds really, really bad until you also look at another rumor, which is that certain schools will have an "affinity" and succeed at a 3+ instead of a 4+. So Fortune, being Warp Charge 2, will still be harder to cast, but not tremendously so.

When it comes to Deny the Witch, I wouldn't be surprised if a similar mechanic is in play. You will need to CHOOSE a Psyker to deny the witch with. You'll then get to Deny using ML+1 deny the witch dice. You'll likely get a bonus of a Deny succeeding on a 5 instead of a 6 if you're casting the spell at that psyker's unit, or if the pskyer who is denying is within a certain inches of the person casting.

That is my educated guess as to how it's going to work.

So my Farseer casts Fortune, and throws 4 dice (my maximum) at it. I roll a 2, 3, 4, and 4. Three successes, enough to cast the spell.

My opponent has a Hive Tyrant, ML2, who he's going to use to Deny the Witch. He throws 3 dice, but only gets one 6. Not enough to dispel.

Another scenario:

My Farseer tries to cast Doom, and throws 4 dice, getting a 2, 3, 4, and 5. Again, three successes. He's trying to cast Doom on the Hive Tyrant.

The Hive Tyrant again is ML2, and has three dice to deny. Since he's a Psyker, and I'm targetting him, his success is increased to a 5 from a 6. If he had a higher Mastery level than me, I suspect this might increase again to a 4+. Again, he throws 3 dice. He gets a 3, 5, and 6. Two successes are good, and the amount of the Warp Charge the spell cost, but since I got three successes on my roll, it's not enough. He gets Doomed.

I'll be interested to see if my predictions about this are correct.

 Araenion wrote:
I think I'll still keep my 1 Farseer, 1 Autarch combo for my Eldar army.

Same! My Tyranids and Grey Knights are where this will really shine for me.

I don't think that is how Deny the Witch is going to work at all.

One thing that was not clarified in the white dwarf...can blessings be denied?

The one thing I have a question about is things like Hammerhand and Force Weapons since both are casted at the assault phase. I get how this works for things like rolling for Discipline powers but how will this effect activating Force weapons which is one of the GKs main advantages.

 Envihon wrote:
The one thing I have a question about is things like Hammerhand and Force Weapons since both are casted at the assault phase. I get how this works for things like rolling for Discipline powers but how will this effect activating Force weapons which is one of the GKs main advantages.

That's a great question...though no one will have the answer now...unless it just turns into a blessing...we can't possibly know but Force Weapons are common enough to have been thought of.

More odd questions are like...what does Shadow in the Warp do?

 ductvader wrote:
One thing that was not clarified in the white dwarf...can blessings be denied?

All signs point to yes. Unsure if this has been confirmed for sure, though.

This should be interesting for sure.
as there been anything stating you must roll more than 1 dice to cast a power?

Also since vehicle damage chart has been changed

it seems like GK psychic pilots will be interesting.
I get to whip out the assback spam and get free psychic help.

 Desubot wrote:
it seems like GK psychic pilots will be interesting.
I get to whip out the assback spam and get free psychic help.

Hahaha...didn't even think of this.

But one great unbound list. Draigo and 28 x 1 Solodins for 30 Warp Charge dice and all that Holocaust fire and free Hammers.

Well, I've watched the video.
JJ is really excited about the magic phase and daemonology.
I hope he knows what he's talking about. He should factor in the players able to use or abuse new rules.

JJ looks old, doesn't he?

JJ looks like someone who realized he's part of a player-hating company but still has to sell their product for a living.

This left aside, though, I agree, he really looks old :(

4 Heralds of Tzeentch + Fateweaver
6 squads of horrors

28 warp charge points? +D6? So from what I gathered, after you drop yourself off a Portaglyph from one of your Heralds, you can just explode them all into Bloodthirsters?

If you ran 2xFOCs and took 8 Heralds (IIRC) you could get up to
52 Warp Charge points and summon up to 8 Bloodthirsters?

Im just trying to hypothetically see how many you could spam in one list lol

I have a feeling to stop all that. the models you want to asplod into thirsters need to have mastery level 3 as well.

this is just me speculating.

Also you still roll on the table as well to pick your psyker powers so some may not get possession.

GoliothOnline wrote:
4 Heralds of Tzeentch + Fateweaver
6 squads of horrors

28 warp charge points? +D6? So from what I gathered, after you drop yourself off a Portaglyph from one of your Heralds, you can just explode them all into Bloodthirsters?

If you ran 2xFOCs and took 8 Heralds (IIRC) you could get up to
52 Warp Charge points and summon up to 8 Bloodthirsters?

Im just trying to hypothetically see how many you could spam in one list lol

Well, JJ was just talking about a unit of Bloodletters with a smile.
I guess he never thought about Bloodthirsters. This is just another movie.

What really makes me giggle is that on the one hand, there are people claiming that the WAAC aspect of Unfun isn't a big problem, but on the other hand, people are already theorycrafting min/max exploit WAAC TFG strategies even before the rules are released

 Sigvatr wrote:
What really makes me giggle is that on the one hand, there are people claiming that the WAAC aspect of Unfun isn't a big problem, but on the other hand, people are already theorycrafting min/max exploit WAAC TFG strategies even before the rules are released

It would not be the first time, GW is overlooking something in the rule set giving rise to shenanigans.

I would like a job at GW, my job description would be to find loop holes and purposely try to break the game.

GoliothOnline wrote:
I would like a job at GW, my job description would be to find loop holes and purposely try to break the game.

This is why they should release beta rules to the public...

GoliothOnline wrote:
I would like a job at GW, my job description would be to find loop holes and purposely try to break the game.

They're not looking for someone with those qualifications

 ductvader wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:
I would like a job at GW, my job description would be to find loop holes and purposely try to break the game.

This is why they should release beta rules to the public...

Free rules? you would be let go so fast for not having the right attitude.

 Desubot wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:
I would like a job at GW, my job description would be to find loop holes and purposely try to break the game.

This is why they should release beta rules to the public...

Free rules? you would be let go so fast for not having the right attitude.

Beta isn't rules...did you see/play the beta for GKs? It was massively different.

Warding Staves could be taken on every single model and worked against shooting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You want a game to run smoothly on release...beta test it.

...unless you're BF4...then mess it up anyways on opening day.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Not really, its actually a clever design as you need multiple psykers to assure your stuff go off-but you get diminishing returns for every psyker after the first, as the "free D6 warp points" you get needs to be split among them all.

No psykers-wasted "free" points.
One/two psykers-risk not having enough warp points to punch crucial spells through psyker defenses.
Psyker spam-more warp points all around, less warp point avilable per psyker though.

There is no "right" answer the psyker game becomes a mini rock-paper-sicessors of its own when few psykers are best against no psykers, a spam will be good against a few, and against a spam you'd rather not even bother.

Now in "ties", either neither has and, so the field is equal, both have tons so nothing IMPORTANT will punch through, or each got very little, meaning its a game magnets where both side's pskyers are better as long they keep away from each other, and the first to nuke the enemy psyker takes over the psyking part of the game.
Unless one side got vastly superior psykers or some other edge ofc. (say ahriman will beat a level 1 libby in psyking every time, so he DOES prefer to get up close to him)

I gotta say. This sounds freaking awesome. Not only from a gameplay perspective of turning the tides of the Psyker clash being a whole nother struggle brought to the field, it's also excellent for balance when there is no OPTIMAL number of psykers. Man I was ready to give up on GW. But everything about 7th seems amazing.