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The Loyalists should take it easy unless Ahriman has had a lot of prep-time.
Tigurius: His foresight is exceptional, and he may have managed to subvert the Hive Mind itself. He simultaneously defeated seven Chaos Space Marine sorcerers while only a Lexicanum and since then he'll have only grown in power. He has studied the force staff of Malcador - yielding secrets about the Golden Throne - and possibly still wields it. He's not in the running for most powerful Psyker in the Imperium for no reason.
Mephiston: The Lord of Death. He has torn a Carnifex apart with his bare hands, struck down a Hive Tyrant and all it's guardians single-handedly, throttled the life from a daemon prince and defeated Doombreed. He's a combat monster.
Ezekiel: Eh... He has a bionic eye! Annnnnd he sacrificed himself to conjure up a Bloodthirster in White Dwarf, so I guess he could do that. But nah, he's probably pretty powerful too.
Animus wrote: The Loyalists should take it easy unless Ahriman has had a lot of prep-time.
Tigurius: His foresight is exceptional, and he may have managed to subvert the Hive Mind itself. He simultaneously defeated seven Chaos Space Marine sorcerers while only a Lexicanum and since then he'll have only grown in power. He has studied the force staff of Malcador - yielding secrets about the Golden Throne - and possibly still wields it. He's not in the running for most powerful Psyker in the Imperium for no reason.
Mephiston: The Lord of Death. He has torn a Carnifex apart with his bare hands, struck down a Hive Tyrant and all it's guardians single-handedly, throttled the life from a daemon prince and defeated Doombreed. He's a combat monster.
Ezekiel: Eh... He has a bionic eye! Annnnnd he sacrificed himself to conjure up a Bloodthirster in White Dwarf, so I guess he could do that. But nah, he's probably pretty powerful too.
Are you serious?
"Why? It is as I have already said, We knew from the beginning we could not stand, But it did not matter, 'Iron Within, Iron Without'. We made them pay".
And Ahriman is the 4th most powerful psyker the Imperium has ever seen, after the Emp, Magnus and Malcador.
Tigurius, powerful though he may be, is no match for Ahriman in raw psychic power, never mind refined psychic power - Ahriman has about a 10,000 year head start in that respect.
Although all three together would definitely be a challenge, I'm not sure who would win.
Tzeentch would just shut off the Imperial slaves psychic link to the warp for daring to mess with his favorite play-thing
Or maybe force them to roll poorly and peril - just as planned
Thousand Sons: 3850pts / Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / Black Death 1500pts
Arhiman is older than all of them combined, he has swallowed the knowledge of hundreds of worlds and was taught by Magnus the Red. Plus he was able to put up enough of a fight against Magnus that he wasn't turned to jelly in milliseconds.
Also he forced a Space Wolf to admit he was wrong.
Against 3 of the top Space Marine psykers? We don't know. However in the fluff anyway Arhiman's speciality was divination.
DS:90-S+G+++M++B-IPw40k03+D+A++/fWD-R++T(T)DM+ Warmachine MKIII record 39W/0D/6L
Wulfmar wrote: Tzeentch would just shut off the Imperial slaves psychic link to the warp for daring to mess with his favorite play-thing
Nah. He'd probably do that to Ahriman, for a laugh.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Wulfmar wrote: Tzeentch would just shut off the Imperial slaves psychic link to the warp for daring to mess with his favorite play-thing
Nah. He'd probably do that to Ahriman, for a laugh.
It's almost like you've witnessed every game of 40K I've ever played with the Thousand Sons
You're Tzeentch aren't you, come to haunt me
Thousand Sons: 3850pts / Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / Black Death 1500pts
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
I know this is the wrong forum for it but if we talked about rules then I don't think Ahriman has much of a chance Now if we talk in fluff, the people who have GW standing behind them will win. I think we all know who GW love most. They practically kiss Calgar goodnight.
Inquisition motto: 'They don't like it cause the emprah don't like it'
Inquisition logic: "Hundred thousand guardsmen in the area....... WHO CARES, COMMENCE EXTERMINATUS!!! the emperor shall know his own"
Inquisition excuse: "it is the emperors will"
or
"he/she was tainted by chaos"
Cursed Founding wrote: I know this is the wrong forum for it but if we talked about rules then I don't think Ahriman has much of a chance Now if we talk in fluff, the people who have GW standing behind them will win. I think we all know who GW love most. They practically kiss Calgar goodnight.
Obviously, since this is the 40k Background forum, we're talking about fluff. GW's marketing decisions have no bearing on hypothetical situations in the fluff.
Anyways, I think Ahriman would likely pull it off, but it'd probably be a pretty arduous fight for him. Ahriman is ruthless, calculating, has had 10,000 years of knowledge-seeking, was trained by Magnus, and is one of the greatest human-affiliated psykers the galaxy has seen since the Horus Heresy (only exceeded by his Primarch, Malcador, and The Emperor himself). He's pretty ridiculously powerful.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/18 21:13:17
Mephiston is probably closest to being Ahriman's level of strength. Defeating Doombreed is really, really fething impressive. I'd be interested to know the conditions in which he defeated him. Probably with the help of several space marine chapters.
Ahriman, however, is just too fast and powerful. He is notorious for being able to cast 10 spells before his enemies can draw their swords, which probably is how his in game weapon the Black Staff got its 3X witchfires rule.
And if things ever get too crazy, Ahriman can just leave his body and rip one of the other guys out of their body and steal their life energy like he did with Amon.
And then if THAT didn't work Tzeentch would step in.
And then if THAT didn't work cause another chaos god overpowered Tzeentch, which could only be Khorne, Ahriman could just possess a body later, similar to how Thousand Sons Sorcerer Madox did 2 times. If he can do it, Ahriman can for sure.
I doubt Ahriman would reach even the first failsafe though, he's just too badass.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/18 21:36:31
"We are the Red Sorcerers of Prospero, damned in the eyes of our fellows, and this is to be how our story ends, in betrayal and bloodshed. No...you may find it nobler to suffer your fate, but I will take arms against it." -Ahzek Ahriman
1250 Points of The Prodigal Sons
Here is my theory for the tactics the marines would use.
mephiston- He would be up in ahrimans face, trying to "smite thy heretic with my glowing sword of awesomeness"
While tiggy would be the MAIN (note the others would have to do it as well, but I see tiggy diverting all his strength into this) protecting them from ahrimans spells.
while eziekel would be the more "offensive" pysker.
I love ahriman, and he is rid. strong, but so are these libbys and together.. its not additive, with space marines its always multiplicative when there strength is concerned.
Ahriman saw five days earlier that the Lascannon was going to be fired at that position and did not bother. He did something else that would not end with him having to get hit by one, like approaching from another direction.
That is the power of the mightiest Diviner currently fully alive.
Ahriman saw five days earlier that the Lascannon was going to be fired at that position and did not bother. He did something else that would not end with him having to get hit by one, like approaching from another direction.
That is the power of the mightiest Diviner currently fully alive.
Mightiest Diviner? Ha! He's got nothing on Eldrad.
Spoiler:
You know, Eldrad Ulthran really is a dick. I've said it before, and I have absolutely no doubt that I will say it again. He has skill and power of heights that are only reachable, even for most Eldar, in their dreams, and how does he use them? He uses them like this:
Years ago, a minor Ork Waaagh sprung up and launched itself against the Mon-Keigh world they call Lentak II. It's an insignificant planet by any definition except, apparently, Eldrad's. He summoned me and told me we were going to Lentak, and that it was of the utmost importance to see that a certain battle took a particular course. He also told me to bring along the best sniper I could find, adding that "He might come in handy," with a wink like he was passing on some kind of secret message. Typical Eldrad behavior, that.
So, we get down to the surface of Lentak and locate the "important" battle, in a rocky pass high up in a mountain range. Eldrad isn't wearing his helmet, the better to display the horribly annoying half-smile that's on his face the whole time, the one he puts on when he knows something you don't and is about to use that information. I'm busy projecting an illusion to keep the Mon-Keigh and the Orks from noticing us, Eldrad and the sniper are just watching the battle from the rock outcrop where we're standing. Finally, Eldrad points at a particular Ork nob riding in the back of one of their wartrukks.
"That one. Take off his ear. His *left* ear. Right...now."
The sniper fires, cleanly severing the Ork's ear. The thing roars like the beast it is, looks around, and smacks the Ork beside it right off the back of the bouncing vehicle. The fallen Ork doesn't even have time to stop rolling before it gets run over by another Ork on a warbike; the bike nearly crashes, and one of the bombs sitting in a rack near the back bounces loose and falls to the ground. Eldrad looks at it, nods in satisfaction, and motions for us to leave.
Five of the Mon Keigh years pass. Five blessed, beloved years, in which I do not hear or see Eldrad a single time. I don't know where he was, or what he does when he's not busy being a dick; probably off seducing Tau or members of whatever other young race has caught his fancy recently. Anyway, those five years pass all too quickly, and then Eldrad comes back, contacts me, and tells me we're going back to Lentak II, just the two of us. This, of course, sets my teeth on edge, because I know he's going to do something unbearably dickish, but I can't exactly refuse the most important Farseer of my Craftworld.
Sure enough, we wind up back in that same mountain pass, watching a column of Imperial Guard troops march past. This time, we're down at roughly the same level as the guardsmen, but since there are only two of us, it's easy for me to project sufficient camouflage. Good thing, because Eldrad sure wasn't helping. I notice that the wreckage from the battle years ago hasn't been completely cleaned; some has been pushed up against the walls of the pass, some hasn't.
I belatedly remember the fallen bomb and start to look for it, but before I can spot it, a Chimera with a commissar riding in its open hatch finds it on its own. The explosion bounces the vehicle into the air, and the unsecured commissar goes flying. Shrapnel flies towards us and I dodge, rolling across the ground to avoid the splintered metal.
When I look up, I see Eldrad, standing with the sunrise behind him, posed like a statue with his head high and his fists on his hips. An instant later, the commissar's hat lands right on his head. And Eldrad, the dick, holds the pose and smirks at me. I almost dropped the illusion and let the mon-keigh kill us both, but then I realized Eldrad would probably have some way of escaping even that.
Never in my nearly twenty thousand years of life have I met a bigger dick than Eldrad Ulthran.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
changerofways wrote: Mephiston is probably closest to being Ahriman's level of strength. Defeating Doombreed is really, really fething impressive. I'd be interested to know the conditions in which he defeated him. Probably with the help of several space marine chapters.
Ahriman, however, is just too fast and powerful. He is notorious for being able to cast 10 spells before his enemies can draw their swords, which probably is how his in game weapon the Black Staff got its 3X witchfires rule.
And if things ever get too crazy, Ahriman can just leave his body and rip one of the other guys out of their body and steal their life energy like he did with Amon.
And then if THAT didn't work Tzeentch would step in.
And then if THAT didn't work cause another chaos god overpowered Tzeentch, which could only be Khorne, Ahriman could just possess a body later, similar to how Thousand Sons Sorcerer Madox did 2 times. If he can do it, Ahriman can for sure.
I doubt Ahriman would reach even the first failsafe though, he's just too badass.
Nope, the Doombreed fight was 1v1. There was a battle going on around them, but nobody else actually got involved.
changerofways wrote: Mephiston is probably closest to being Ahriman's level of strength. Defeating Doombreed is really, really fething impressive. I'd be interested to know the conditions in which he defeated him. Probably with the help of several space marine chapters.
Ahriman, however, is just too fast and powerful. He is notorious for being able to cast 10 spells before his enemies can draw their swords, which probably is how his in game weapon the Black Staff got its 3X witchfires rule.
And if things ever get too crazy, Ahriman can just leave his body and rip one of the other guys out of their body and steal their life energy like he did with Amon.
And then if THAT didn't work Tzeentch would step in.
And then if THAT didn't work cause another chaos god overpowered Tzeentch, which could only be Khorne, Ahriman could just possess a body later, similar to how Thousand Sons Sorcerer Madox did 2 times. If he can do it, Ahriman can for sure.
I doubt Ahriman would reach even the first failsafe though, he's just too badass.
Nope, the Doombreed fight was 1v1. There was a battle going on around them, but nobody else actually got involved.
That is awesome! Banishing Khorne's 3rd or 4th most powerful daemon single handedly is no small feat especially since Khorne is the most powerful God now a days according to the 6th ed CSM dex
"We are the Red Sorcerers of Prospero, damned in the eyes of our fellows, and this is to be how our story ends, in betrayal and bloodshed. No...you may find it nobler to suffer your fate, but I will take arms against it." -Ahzek Ahriman
1250 Points of The Prodigal Sons
changerofways wrote: Mephiston is probably closest to being Ahriman's level of strength. Defeating Doombreed is really, really fething impressive. I'd be interested to know the conditions in which he defeated him. Probably with the help of several space marine chapters.
Ahriman, however, is just too fast and powerful. He is notorious for being able to cast 10 spells before his enemies can draw their swords, which probably is how his in game weapon the Black Staff got its 3X witchfires rule.
And if things ever get too crazy, Ahriman can just leave his body and rip one of the other guys out of their body and steal their life energy like he did with Amon.
And then if THAT didn't work Tzeentch would step in.
And then if THAT didn't work cause another chaos god overpowered Tzeentch, which could only be Khorne, Ahriman could just possess a body later, similar to how Thousand Sons Sorcerer Madox did 2 times. If he can do it, Ahriman can for sure.
I doubt Ahriman would reach even the first failsafe though, he's just too badass.
Nope, the Doombreed fight was 1v1. There was a battle going on around them, but nobody else actually got involved.
That is awesome! Banishing Khorne's 3rd or 4th most powerful daemon single handedly is no small feat especially since Khorne is the most powerful God now a days according to the 6th ed CSM dex
To be fair 40k fluff is a terrible field on balance. Really 1v1 a DP and Greater Daemon should have an edge. Then you have new acolytes killing them with daggers. Add to that individuals like Ahriman and Fate Weaver are fluffed up to be absolutely terrifying as well as many other factions yet they promptly aren't nerlarly as impressive on the table. That and this is the same place where Craig exists despite being a big was of BS in every way shape and form.
As per the debate. Its an odd one. To be realistic, Ahriman can't really escape from Tzeentch or the more powerful warp entities. Sorcerers make deals constantly and many spells involve summoning. Besides that, it comes to several other questions. Obviously one on one Ahriman outclasses all three of them. As per 3v1 this gets much more complicated. How does divination work? Then there is how Ahriman can cheat death without Tzeentch to add to that. Overall I'd say it would be a hard fight but, in the end, Ahriman would edge a victory due to a combination of godly divination, being one of the top 5 or 10 psykers of the entire setting (not counting daemons), his mastery of offensive spells, his combat capabilities, and his cheap possession skills.
Unless we go tabletop then Ahriman dies trying to shoot
changerofways wrote: Mephiston is probably closest to being Ahriman's level of strength. Defeating Doombreed is really, really fething impressive. I'd be interested to know the conditions in which he defeated him. Probably with the help of several space marine chapters.
Ahriman, however, is just too fast and powerful. He is notorious for being able to cast 10 spells before his enemies can draw their swords, which probably is how his in game weapon the Black Staff got its 3X witchfires rule.
And if things ever get too crazy, Ahriman can just leave his body and rip one of the other guys out of their body and steal their life energy like he did with Amon.
And then if THAT didn't work Tzeentch would step in.
And then if THAT didn't work cause another chaos god overpowered Tzeentch, which could only be Khorne, Ahriman could just possess a body later, similar to how Thousand Sons Sorcerer Madox did 2 times. If he can do it, Ahriman can for sure.
I doubt Ahriman would reach even the first failsafe though, he's just too badass.
Nope, the Doombreed fight was 1v1. There was a battle going on around them, but nobody else actually got involved.
That is awesome! Banishing Khorne's 3rd or 4th most powerful daemon single handedly is no small feat especially since Khorne is the most powerful God now a days according to the 6th ed CSM dex
To be fair 40k fluff is a terrible field on balance. Really 1v1 a DP and Greater Daemon should have an edge. Then you have new acolytes killing them with daggers. Add to that individuals like Ahriman and Fate Weaver are fluffed up to be absolutely terrifying as well as many other factions yet they promptly aren't nerlarly as impressive on the table. That and this is the same place where Craig exists despite being a big was of BS in every way shape and form.
As per the debate. Its an odd one. To be realistic, Ahriman can't really escape from Tzeentch or the more powerful warp entities. Sorcerers make deals constantly and many spells involve summoning. Besides that, it comes to several other questions. Obviously one on one Ahriman outclasses all three of them. As per 3v1 this gets much more complicated. How does divination work? Then there is how Ahriman can cheat death without Tzeentch to add to that. Overall I'd say it would be a hard fight but, in the end, Ahriman would edge a victory due to a combination of godly divination, being one of the top 5 or 10 psykers of the entire setting (not counting daemons), his mastery of offensive spells, his combat capabilities, and his cheap possession skills.
Unless we go tabletop then Ahriman dies trying to shoot
Yes, you say this very well, I agree.
"We are the Red Sorcerers of Prospero, damned in the eyes of our fellows, and this is to be how our story ends, in betrayal and bloodshed. No...you may find it nobler to suffer your fate, but I will take arms against it." -Ahzek Ahriman
1250 Points of The Prodigal Sons
But nah, he's probably pretty powerful too.
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