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When counting units to put in reserves, Independent Characters are still counted separately even if they are joined to a unit (BRB page 124 - Preparing reserves), so technically one of the DW units should have started on the board.
Libby (Psychic Hood) plus Perfidious Relic is quite a cunning tactic now that I think about it - not much use against Tau and the new edition may shake it up, but I'll have a think about it.
Did you go first or second? I can't imagine the scouts would have survived an entire Tau shooting phase so I'm guessing first - did you find the CCW / Shotgun scouts useful?
Was it all a T1 alpha-strike or did you try bringing a few units in using Belial's Teleport Homer?
Tau can potentially bring a large amount of AP2 Interceptor, so I normally struggle with that match-up with my DW.
Quanar wrote: When counting units to put in reserves, Independent Characters are still counted separately even if they are joined to a unit (BRB page 124 - Preparing reserves), so technically one of the DW units should have started on the board.
Libby (Psychic Hood) plus Perfidious Relic is quite a cunning tactic now that I think about it - not much use against Tau and the new edition may shake it up, but I'll have a think about it.
Did you go first or second? I can't imagine the scouts would have survived an entire Tau shooting phase so I'm guessing first - did you find the CCW / Shotgun scouts useful?
Was it all a T1 alpha-strike or did you try bringing a few units in using Belial's Teleport Homer?
Tau can potentially bring a large amount of AP2 Interceptor, so I normally struggle with that match-up with my DW.
My mistake on the reserve thing...It was a friendly game and I will remember that in the future. I went first and it was hammer and anvil so I was able to deploy far enough back out of range and in cover/out of LOS. I like the CCW/shotgun scout myself but YMMV...I ran it 5 snipers on each objective with the two combat squads split between the two objectives out of LOS of anything until the endgame. The dreadnought was hugging cover as well back there. Turn one I dropped Belial and the command and 2 terminator squads, turn 2 brought the other terminator squad, and turn 3 brought knights. I lost 7 terminators to interceptor so it was a large hit, it was 2 in two squads and 3 in another. My saving boon was that those small numbers were enough to assault the next turn and that was that.
I'm surprised you were able to table them tbh. A good block of firewarriors will blow away a terminator squad per turn with relatively little difficulty.
It all depends on what he had in his list. Still any tau player worth his salt should either have a mass of firewarriors or an ionside or 2, especially at 2k points, both of which would have made winning with terminators almost an impossibility.
Big Blind Bill wrote: I'm surprised you were able to table them tbh. A good block of firewarriors will blow away a terminator squad per turn with relatively little difficulty.
It all depends on what he had in his list. Still any tau player worth his salt should either have a mass of firewarriors or an ionside or 2, especially at 2k points, both of which would have made winning with terminators almost an impossibility.
it could jsut be that the player was sh!t and i personnaly dont feel sorry for them. tau are an army built around standing behind a wall and shooting at you. their a force tailor made for guys/girls who play to much gears of war and CoD. you crouch behind a just high wall, peek over and shoot. and so i hope that collectively tau armies fail to do their 1 job and get clubbed to death
DA army: 3500pts,
admech army: 600pts
ravenguard: 565 pts
per the DWA rules ALL your DW termies MUST deepstrike on the same turn (you pick 1st or 2nd turn). The only way around that is to have some starting on the board (ie Belial in LRC to puch forward turn 1 and have the rest of your termies DWA on turn 2).
Actually, you can DWA some DW on turn one (Belial for homer) and then deep strike the others from turn 2 onward using the normal reserves rules (instead of DWA) - it means rolling to see if they turn up, so there are merits to each.
The guy is newer to Tau but he is probably one of the top 3 players in my city...He rolled atrociously but target prioritized exactly as he should have. I find it disturbing that you guys are polarized to believe that putting tau on the table is an instant win. I really don't have a bad record against them whether it be with marines, dark angels, or guard.
riverhawks32 wrote: The guy is newer to Tau but he is probably one of the top 3 players in my city...He rolled atrociously but target prioritized exactly as he should have. I find it disturbing that you guys are polarized to believe that putting tau on the table is an instant win. I really don't have a bad record against them whether it be with marines, dark angels, or guard.
Tau are currently one of the higher end top-tier armies. Deathwing are undoubtedly one of the worst. These are facts.
The reason people are posting as they are is not just because one of the players was using tau, but because the other was using DW.
Tactics and good play is important, but consider the cost, durability and damage output of the two sides:
220 gets you 5 DW terminators. 220 points gives you 24 firewarriors.
The firewarriors have far superior damage output and are more durable.
The tau will beat the DW at shooting at ranges over 15, and absolutely massacre them at ranges under it.
There is no way a DW footslogging army should come out on top against a decent tau list, the terminators just won't be able to weather the shooting.
The only way I can see them competing is by using landraiders, as Tau armies are generally not too heavy on serious anti tank weapons.
to be honest, you should not have assaulted at all.
2 groups of 12 fire warriors supporting each other, thats almost 50 attacks on a DW squad. Then if you even GET to assault, they can all support fire over-watch for that many attacks AGAIN (and if you still have marker lights on you, potential full BS)
raiden wrote: to be honest, you should not have assaulted at all.
2 groups of 12 fire warriors supporting each other, thats almost 50 attacks on a DW squad. Then if you even GET to assault, they can all support fire over-watch for that many attacks AGAIN (and if you still have marker lights on you, potential full BS)
Yeah, this. Especially if there is an ethereal in there somewhere. Although this is a little wrong about marker lights, they don't get left over for overwatch. They disappear at the end of the phase they are used in.
The only way to increase overwatch with markerlights is if a different squad can use supporting fire with them. (or if there is a unit with an integrated markerlight that can overwatch, I thought they were all on vehicles though).
I don't even try walking terminators towards tau lines anymore. They have next to no chance of making it there. Deepstriking vs tau is risky with the best of units. Deepstriking with a 220+ points unit of terminators into rapidfire pulse rifle range is a death sentence.
Vs Tau I usually try to deal with any anti armour they have, then use my landraiders to my advantage: transporting, shielding units as they advance, blocking LoS to all but my army's target for that turn are all useful.
True about the Tau massed-fire, but the DW guys with Belial land exactly when and, more importantly, exactly WHERE they want to. If the drops go well, there would not be any fire warriors left to shoot anyone. That's the point; drop the DW the round you want and remove the threat you choose. All of the shots are TL the round you drop (Relentless Assault), improving kills. Split Fire on the cyclones, if needed.
Now, I can see how it can become a nightmare if things go wrong. But it seems that everyone assumes that his opponent's Tau list is exactly built to some 'standard' specification. Evidently Tau are unbeatable by DW in this mythical config. Bummer.
I'd like to see the list he was playing against. While I know many people believe that any list not built purely to twink out every rule in the book is worthless (and have the disposable income and time to buy and model each list they have every time a new 'dex/edition comes out), some people have to make what they have work for them. OP, do you have a copy of your opponent's list?
KillerWabbit wrote: True about the Tau massed-fire, but the DW guys with Belial land exactly when and, more importantly, exactly WHERE they want to. If the drops go well, there would not be any fire warriors left to shoot anyone. That's the point; drop the DW the round you want and remove the threat you choose. All of the shots are TL the round you drop (Relentless Assault), improving kills. Split Fire on the cyclones, if needed.
Now, I can see how it can become a nightmare if things go wrong. But it seems that everyone assumes that his opponent's Tau list is exactly built to some 'standard' specification. Evidently Tau are unbeatable by DW in this mythical config. Bummer.
I'd like to see the list he was playing against. While I know many people believe that any list not built purely to twink out every rule in the book is worthless (and have the disposable income and time to buy and model each list they have every time a new 'dex/edition comes out), some people have to make what they have work for them. OP, do you have a copy of your opponent's list?
This would be nice if it worked as well as it does in theory. However lets looks at some numbers:
Belial can bring down 10 terminators where he wants. They can shoot 20 bolter shots. This costs you 630 points.
A drop pod with tac marines has exactly the same firepower, and costs 175 points. They don't come down as reliably, however they can spread out after they land, and are less vulnerable to interceptor.
The terminators won't be removing any significant threat when they land, because they only have the firepower of a tac squad.
If you are using Belial for a squad with heavy flamers, consider that for the cost of 5 terminators with a HF, you can get 4 Landspeeders with 2 HF each.
DW will not always lose to tau. However, it should be very difficult for them to win. For the OP to be able to say that he beat a Tau army using DW, without using landraiders, and nearly tabled them, screams of ineptitude on the tau player's part. It must have been a bad list or a bad strategy on his part.
Evidently Tau are unbeatable by DW in this mythical config. Bummer.
In a competitive setup, most armies should beat a pure DW army. That's just the way it is. The DA codex dealt the DW a bum hand this edition.
Outside of a competitive scene it is better of course. However it is still pretty difficult to pick a list for tau without being able to bring down terminators.
This Tau player built it as a side project to his 30,000 point Eldar army...He didn't build it to be his main comp army and bought only models that he enjoys. The point of this thread was not to debate the power level of Tau weblists. I was merely submitting my DW list and saying I happened to beat Tau of which I was proud for DA. last night I beat Dark Eldar with this list as well (barely). In this particular game IIRC he brought 2 broadsides, 2 devilfish of fire warriors, the tau flier, a riptide, 10 piranhas, aegis line and quad gun with like 12 fire warriors manning, suit commander and a unit of crisis suits, pathfinders and 3 hammerheads
6000 points 
4000 points 
Empire 5500 Points 
