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Only GW would make a bad army even worse....

Perhaps they saw a lot of Eldar + Dark Eldar lists winning... and assumed that Dark Eldar were the problem.

"Can leave combat" implies Hit and Run, which is a small consolation for Reavers (though they still have to survive a round of combat with fragile T4 4+sv bodies).

4 specials for Scourges is pretty dope; relentless would have been nice, but relentless on 12'' moving platform that wields 4 splinter-cannons would be ridiculous.

As far as everything else, just lol. Looking forward to seeing all the logic-hoops GW apologists jump through to put a positive spin on this gak.

"J-just because Wyches don't have a re-rollable 2++ I-Win EZ mode button don't make them bad!"

Looks like very nice buff for scourges ,also looks like new haemoculus has statline of acient one, i hope we still can take more than 1 per HQ slot.

To be honest imo squishy and elite assualt armies are dead since 6ed ,and thers no much things that could change that.
So theres no use for crying ,because thats not suprice that full assualt DE dont exist anymore
only unit that i see in combat are jetbikes that can survive with 3+ cover and quickly kill things like small squads of infantry ofc if they still have drugs and cc weapons for champion ,after all 6pts drop for that new bladewanes in not nerf , but its sad that gw cuts of things that are funny and unique for armies

So for real though, what would be a good unit? I have a bunch of wraithguard that I was thinking of using as counts-as Sslyth (big durable bodyguards...that works, right?)

Webway portal combined with an archon and a bunch of Sslyth up ins?

...Well, that solidly knocks out any of my desire to get into 7th and pick up this new DE book.

Seriously, I didn't want to be right about all of the Special Characters without models being cut, or no bikes/skyboards for Archons since they don't have official models, it's just GW is some sort of "super-villain obvious" with these changes.

Even worse, it seems that some of the remaining CC strength was cut out. Hip, hip, hurrah?

Wow so its worse than we first thought - awesome............

They really want people to stop playing - wierd isn't it.

After what they did to my orks... I can accept this as a light blow. At least power from pain doesn't kill your own troops every turn.

Its a wildcard army that ultimately remains extremely wildcard.


Its just such an emotional response watching codex after codex have option after option removed. In the end, its good for the game (as long as they can reign in their natural instincts to make units like Wyverns and Wave Serpents). But I'd just kill for a honest to god statement from GW appologizing for going crazy before, explaining the need to trim back the game (which I recognize the hypocracy of this statement with formations, dataslates, supplements, etc).

They need to treat us like adults and acknowledge what they're doing. Not just give us a company line of "EVERYTHING IS AWESOME. NEVER BEEN BETTER"

Reavers sound awesome now for only 16 points. With Drugs they'll likely be T5 Reavers, S4, or get 4 attacks on the charge. Yes please!

Scourges got a buff if they can all get special weapons... haywire blasters?

Mandrakes are good now. Just 12 points and a 2+ save in cover, infiltrate, each has an assault 2 S4, AP4 gun, and decent in CC? Not bad.

Kabalites and Trueborn dropped a point.

Goresaw wrote:
After what they did to my orks... I can accept this as a light blow. At least power from pain doesn't kill your own troops every turn.

Its a wildcard army that ultimately remains extremely wildcard.


Its just such an emotional response watching codex after codex have option after option removed. In the end, its good for the game (as long as they can reign in their natural instincts to make units like Wyverns and Wave Serpents). But I'd just kill for a honest to god statement from GW appologizing for going crazy before, explaining the need to trim back the game (which I recognize the hypocracy of this statement with formations, dataslates, supplements, etc).

They need to treat us like adults and acknowledge what they're doing. Not just give us a company line of "EVERYTHING IS AWESOME. NEVER BEEN BETTER"

I don't understand what they are doing tbh

They are not forging a narrative as they consistantly ignore their own fluff

They are not balancing as units are all over the place and they make no attempt to addess the current balance issues with OP units and units that are pitiful - even in the same codex.

its just bizare as they seem intent to drive people out of their part of the hobby?

So this is what they want to be remembered by when they finally bite the dust in the soon-to-be future? It's very disheartening to see how badly managed these current codices are. It's like going back to 4th ed. CSM blandness but with even more character being removed.

It's a good thing I bought like $350.00 worth of DE to prepare for their "awesome new codex".... Ha ha ha, but I can't complain, I knew it would happen.

They mentioned vect in today's white dwarf daily and was so excited. Maybe data slate?

I had my mind set that this wouldn't happen. I couldn't see GW swinging the bat this hard, if this is all 100% true. I won't stop playing DE as I just started and I'm not familiar with the good old days. but for the longtime players it's got to hurt

I will hold out hope...but do they typically release new models for data slates? If not I doubt it....You would think that they would put it in the dex as more people are likely to buy that than a dataslate.

Not really sure why in 2014 everyone who gets an early dex is taking photos with a flip phone making it impossible to decipher, but I took the image into photoshop and sharpened it up.

Losing Haywire on wyches really sucks, but hey it justifies selling all those Imperial Knights. Wouldn't want to scratch those.

Archon gets a 3+ save stock is nice. It gives me hope that the first round of rumors of ghostplate being a 4+/6++ as a relic weren't true. I can't see taking armor with an effect that's a step back.

Haemy's getting five attacks is pretty nice depending on the kit. Greater chance of getting a ID wound through.

Urien could be a star depending on his special rules. S5 T5 with 4 attacks and 5 wounds could be very interesting when he gets going with PFP.

I'll wait until we see more to be too doom and gloom. I wont lie, it's not looking amazing right now -- but given we're seeing some stat line changes there could be more we're missing.

I don't think this looks bad at all.

Hey, Kabalite warriors cost -1 point and get FNP just for sitting around in cover.

Turn 3 all our guys get Furious charge so we can finally punch AV10.

Turn 3 Reavers are S4 Hammer of Wrath. If they get the right drug they're S5 hammer.... All rending.

mercury14 wrote:
I don't think this looks bad at all.

Hey, Kabalite warriors cost -1 point and get FNP just for sitting around in cover.

Turn 3 all our guys get Furious charge so we can finally punch AV10.

Turn 3 Reavers are S4 Hammer of Wrath. If they get the right drug they're S5 hammer.... All rending.

Either way, the Toughness 3 models will all be paste by Turn 3.

 Accolade wrote:

mercury14 wrote:
I don't think this looks bad at all.

Hey, Kabalite warriors cost -1 point and get FNP just for sitting around in cover.

Turn 3 all our guys get Furious charge so we can finally punch AV10.

Turn 3 Reavers are S4 Hammer of Wrath. If they get the right drug they're S5 hammer.... All rending.

Either way, the Toughness 3 models will all be paste by Turn 3.

You're playing DE wrong.

mercury14 wrote:
I don't think this looks bad at all.

Hey, Kabalite warriors cost -1 point and get FNP just for sitting around in cover.

Turn 3 all our guys get Furious charge so we can finally punch AV10.

Turn 3 Reavers are S4 Hammer of Wrath. If they get the right drug they're S5 hammer.... All rending.

You caught all this right?

No vect or AP2 for Archon
Shadowfield more expensive
No Flickerfields for non venoms
Scourges are NOT relentless
weapons for trueborns, min size 5 man squad, no carabines
wracks are elite, no improvement, 1 special weapon for every 5 models
No harlies
Haywire granades only for characters
- Ravagers more expensive
- 4 weapons for Scourges
- No carabines for trueborns
- Raiders and Ravagers come with dissis. Dark lances + 5 points
- Bomber is 160 points + cost of missiles
No board or bike for Archon

mercury14 wrote:
I don't think this looks bad at all.

Hey, Kabalite warriors cost -1 point and get FNP just for sitting around in cover.

Turn 3 all our guys get Furious charge so we can finally punch AV10.

Turn 3 Reavers are S4 Hammer of Wrath. If they get the right drug they're S5 hammer.... All rending.

Yes, because av10 is such a pain in the ass for Dark Eldar to deal with, that they're completely powerless against it until this God-given blessing that is furious charge three turns into match.

Well this is disappointing. If there was one range of models that would entice me to start up a new 40k army it was Dark Eldar.

I'll wait for the internet to properly evaluate what we've got here but I'm far less excited than I was as this release first leaked.

mercury14 wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

mercury14 wrote:
I don't think this looks bad at all.

Hey, Kabalite warriors cost -1 point and get FNP just for sitting around in cover.

Turn 3 all our guys get Furious charge so we can finally punch AV10.

Turn 3 Reavers are S4 Hammer of Wrath. If they get the right drug they're S5 hammer.... All rending.

Either way, the Toughness 3 models will all be paste by Turn 3.

You're playing DE wrong.

No, you are (see how pointless that is saying?)

Reavers got by because they could bladevane around, not because they could fight in close combat. Now they'll HoW into a unit and kill a few guys and then all die. Great.

PFP used to keep units *alive*- it's necessary to keep things ticking in the beginning when the firepower is the highest. Also, please see Mr. Morden's post above since it covers all the new...wonderful changes.

Here I thought Raids was more high cost, compare to some other things in this game, I mean.... AV10 with 1 semi ok gun, that is open top (+1 to damage roll and flamers get D6 hits) A bolt gun can pop a raider..... why does it have to cost more.

Or why cant it cost 40pts and you can add Dis cannon for 10pts or DL for 20pts??? I WOULD LOVE THAT!!!!!!!!

 vipoid wrote:
Perhaps they saw a lot of Eldar + Dark Eldar lists winning... and assumed that Dark Eldar were the problem.

Its typical GW, they are applying complaints from 5th edition. Look at orks, the things that barely worked were nerfed because they were good in 5th.

Lots of whining.

When the Eldar codex was at this stage people whined a whole lot too.

Stop assaulting your Reavers into things that can easily slaughter them.

mercury14 wrote:
Lots of whining.

And your solution is to whine about the whining.

mercury14 wrote:
When the Eldar codex was at this stage people whined a whole lot too.

Not really.

Stop assaulting your Reavers into things that can easily slaughter them.

Yeah, hence why bladevanes were better before than what we're rumored to be getting now. You didn't have to get stuck-in to do damage with them.

mercury14 wrote:
Lots of whining.

When the Eldar codex was at this stage people whined a whole lot too.

Stop assaulting your Reavers into things that can easily slaughter them.

That wasn't even the argument I was making. Reavers were never built for assaulting, they were meant to do bladevane attacks. GW, in their infinite wisdom, got rid of that ability because, I don't know, it's too confusing?

But you don't seem interested in discussing this, you'd just rather dismiss us all as "whining." Got it

 Accolade wrote:

mercury14 wrote:
Lots of whining.

When the Eldar codex was at this stage people whined a whole lot too.

Stop assaulting your Reavers into things that can easily slaughter them.

That wasn't even the argument I was making. Reavers were never built for assaulting, they were meant to do bladevane attacks. GW, in their infinite wisdom, got rid of that ability because, I don't know, it's too confusing?

But you don't seem interested in discussing this, you'd just rather dismiss us all as "whining." Got it

Your argument wasnt clear at all, it seem like you just wanted to whine about people whining which makes me think your whining too...

But I think I understand what you was trying to say? let me try.

Cough cough cough..

"Try to use your Reavers in a different manner, a good choice would be to wait for Turn 3 or 4 to do a last minute charge for an objective. Another thing, with the HoW hits and some Rending should make mopping up a unit fail to be killed from your shooting easy. "

Is that what you meant? Using them against things you know they will win against?

Well to be frank, there isnt much out there, tau with amazing Ovewatch, Necrons overwatch so strong too, Flamers auto hits (breaking out armor) and the amount of S6 and S7 on the field only strong units like Riptides and Wrathknights seem to be present out in the open to be charged.. and we know how well reavers are against those.

 Accolade wrote:

mercury14 wrote:
Lots of whining.

When the Eldar codex was at this stage people whined a whole lot too.

Stop assaulting your Reavers into things that can easily slaughter them.

That wasn't even the argument I was making. Reavers were never built for assaulting, they were meant to do bladevane attacks. GW, in their infinite wisdom, got rid of that ability because, I don't know, it's too confusing?

But you don't seem interested in discussing this, you'd just rather dismiss us all as "whining." Got it

Now they're a 16 point assault unit with utility for only 16 points.