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**Cytharai**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Don't forget that Grotesques count as 3 models each (Extra Bulky) for determining Rampage.

Where does it say that? Rampage rule only mentions models, and to my knowledge any sorts of bulky only changes how many models can ride in a transport

**ClockworkZion**

Cytharai wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Don't forget that Grotesques count as 3 models each (Extra Bulky) for determining Rampage.

Where does it say that? Rampage rule only mentions models, and to my knowledge any sorts of bulky only changes how many models can ride in a transport

I might be thinking of FW wrote some rules for Dorn now that I think about it. Sorry, was mixing up the more tightly written rules for less tightly written ones.

**Cytharai**

Haha np, my mind is still catching up to 7th ed rule changes, was wondering if I had missed another.

**ClockworkZion**

More from Scorpion:

Q: How have Incubi been changed?
A: No, but no way of getting assault grenades

Q:Are their Klaives now unwieldy?
A: No

Q: And what bonusses does the Klaivex now give?
A: He has Rampage

Q: What does soulblight do?
A: Sorry, soulfright:

At the end of shooting phase, a unit that has been hit by a weapon with that rule must make a Ld test. units takes wound with no armour or cover save for each point the test is failed by. Doesn't Work on Fearless and ATSKNF.

Both PGL and TGL has that.

PGL: range 18", S 1, AP-, assault 1, blast, soulfright
TGL: range 24", S 1, AP-, assault 1, blast, soulfright

Q: Does Urien still offer a S6 upgrade to Grots?
A: No.

Q: Stats on the wracks and grotesques? Also, Do they get FnP stock or earlier than other units?
A: The same... they start with FNP and...
Talos and Chronos start with FNP as well. And Chronos Spirit Probe gives DE unit within 6" +1 to FNP to a maximum of 4+

Q: Any shooting weapon options for Archon, like Blasters, Shardcarbines etc...
A: Yes

Q: Can Succubus take relics?
A: Yes

Q: Is Archon armor save 5+ or 3+
A: 5+

Q: Do Warrior squads come with Sybarites free?
A: No

Q: I heard from somewhere that each of them [Grotesques] now have flesh gauntlets, and can be equipped with liquefiers each. Any confirmation?
A: Confirmed!

Q: I do wish witches got something, hopefully they are dirt cheap.
A: 10 points each

I'll be ducking off to class soon but when I get out I'll keep doing the roll ups.

**Colpicklejar**

Still kind of annoyed that the cool fear-gas grenades don't work against what seems like a full half the codexes. Not saying it's the worst thing ever, but still.

**Auswin**

Rampage on a small unit of incubi could be amazing. Especially given you'll almost always be outnumbered if you take 3 and a klaivex.

Also 120 pts for 4 scourges with haywire blasters? That is really good.

Also GOOD GOD GROTESQUES

**ClockworkZion**

Last update before class:

All missiles have the blast or Large blast rule. The void bomb is large blast now, Dark scythes that the voidraven can get instead of voidlances are 24", S 8, AP2, Blast, lance.

**mercury14**

Dark Scythes are pretty sweet. Works against vehicles of all sizes, works against infantry.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Auswin wrote:
Rampage on a small unit of incubi could be amazing. Especially given you'll almost always be outnumbered if you take 3 and a klaivex.

Also 120 pts for 4 scourges with haywire blasters? That is really good.

Also GOOD GOD GROTESQUES

5x Incubi w/ Klaivex would be 19+D3 S4 AP2 attacks that probably hit on a 3+

**Red Corsair**

I'll still escort my Grot squads. LD4 is way to susceptible to things like tank shock or psychic shriek or heck, losing assaults.

Too bad haemis are not like tech marines. Only having two HQ's will hseem tough without adding more CAD's.

**Amishprn86**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Don't forget that Grotesques count as 3 models each (Extra Bulky) for determining Rampage.

?? What?? Bulky is only for transport.

EDIT: It was answered already.

**Red Corsair**

mercury14 wrote:
Dark Scythes are pretty sweet. Works against vehicles of all sizes, works against infantry.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Auswin wrote:
Rampage on a small unit of incubi could be amazing. Especially given you'll almost always be outnumbered if you take 3 and a klaivex.

Also 120 pts for 4 scourges with haywire blasters? That is really good.

Also GOOD GOD GROTESQUES

5x Incubi w/ Klaivex would be 19+D3 S4 AP2 attacks that probably hit on a 3+

Still not as good as grots IMO. Incubi should have been court members IMO, they were originally bodyguards in the HQ slot.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wow Urien is only 140 now.

Scorpion wrote:
django_unchained wrote:Wow, that's pretty amazing.

Could you detail Urien for us? Pt cost, stats, special rules, war gear?

So talos moving up with cronos have 4+ fnp? Would say a unit of 2 cronos give 4+ fnp to each other?

1. 140 points, Gnarlskin, CCW, Ichor Injector (Fleshbane, Lethal dose), Clone Field, FNP(4+), It will not Die, Night Vision, Master of Pain (same as ordinary heamon - treat the current turn as being one higher that it actually is when determining special rules from PfP), PfP, Father of pain (Master of Pain rule affects all unit within 12", not just his own unit). Casket of Flensing: Range 12", S 3, AP 3, assault 2D6, One use.

2. No, it affect the chronos it self as well. So one Chronos with spitit probe has FNP 4+.

**mercury14**

Urien is quite good now.

140 points
Gnarlskin
CCW
Ichor Injector (Fleshbane, ID on a 6)
Clone Field, FNP(4+)
It will not Die
Night Vision
Master of Pain (same as ordinary heamon - treat the current turn as being one higher that it actually is when determining special rules from PfP),
PfF
Father of pain (Master of Pain rule affects all unit within 12", not just his own unit).
Casket of Flensing: Range 12", S 3, AP 3, assault 2D6, One use
Haemi stat line plus T5

**Red Corsair**

Scorpion wrote:Mandrakes cause fear as well. So they have: Fear, Fleet, Infiltrate, Move through cover, Night vision, PfP, Shrouded, stealth, Baleblast, CCW. 13 points. A very nice unit.

stats: 4 - 4- 4- 3- 1- 5- 2- 8

No armor save however will mean they get chewed up in assaults with t3. Just keep em out of assault until turn 3 I suppose lol.

**rollawaythestone**

Red Corsair wrote:
Scorpion wrote:Mandrakes cause fear as well. So they have: Fear, Fleet, Infiltrate, Move through cover, Night vision, PfP, Shrouded, stealth, Baleblast, CCW. 13 points. A very nice unit.

stats: 4 - 4- 4- 3- 1- 5- 2- 8

No armor save however will mean they get chewed up in assaults with t3. Just keep em out of assault until turn 3 I suppose lol.

The lack of an armour save or Invuln sucks, but hiding until Turn 3 is normally a good tactic for a lot of different Infiltrators. Alternatively, they could be an excellent distraction unit like Nurglings - hiding on a distant objective all game, forcing your opponent to go deal with them.

**TyraelVladinhurst**

hm, all of this seems okay. but i think i'll be staying away from DE until they get their old lance rules back (I.E. all armor above 11 counts as 11)

**pretre**

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
hm, all of this seems okay. but i think i'll be staying away from DE until they get their old lance rules back (I.E. all armor above 11 counts as 11)

When did lance ever do that?

**TyraelVladinhurst**

pretre wrote:
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
hm, all of this seems okay. but i think i'll be staying away from DE until they get their old lance rules back (I.E. all armor above 11 counts as 11)

When did lance ever do that?

DE codex 3rd edition and the 3.5 edition

**CthuluIsSpy**

pretre wrote:
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
hm, all of this seems okay. but i think i'll be staying away from DE until they get their old lance rules back (I.E. all armor above 11 counts as 11)

When did lance ever do that?

I think he means any armor that is greater than 12 is reduced to 12 for the purposes of resolving penetration.

**mercury14**

Red Corsair wrote:
Scorpion wrote:Mandrakes cause fear as well. So they have: Fear, Fleet, Infiltrate, Move through cover, Night vision, PfP, Shrouded, stealth, Baleblast, CCW. 13 points. A very nice unit.

stats: 4 - 4- 4- 3- 1- 5- 2- 8

No armor save however will mean they get chewed up in assaults with t3. Just keep em out of assault until turn 3 I suppose lol.

Mandrakes are still good in CC for their points. They're skirmishers for sure and don't want to fight like assault marines, but for 12 points... That's less cheap as hell.

**Red Corsair**

pretre wrote:
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
hm, all of this seems okay. but i think i'll be staying away from DE until they get their old lance rules back (I.E. all armor above 11 counts as 11)

When did lance ever do that?

It did that exactly never to be precise

**pretre**

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
pretre wrote:
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
hm, all of this seems okay. but i think i'll be staying away from DE until they get their old lance rules back (I.E. all armor above 11 counts as 11)

When did lance ever do that?

DE codex 3rd edition and the 3.5 edition

Yeah, I think CthuluIsSpy, myself and Red Corsair have your number. You're thinking of 12.

**Red Corsair**

mercury14 wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
Scorpion wrote:Mandrakes cause fear as well. So they have: Fear, Fleet, Infiltrate, Move through cover, Night vision, PfP, Shrouded, stealth, Baleblast, CCW. 13 points. A very nice unit.

stats: 4 - 4- 4- 3- 1- 5- 2- 8

No armor save however will mean they get chewed up in assaults with t3. Just keep em out of assault until turn 3 I suppose lol.

Mandrakes are still good in CC for their points. They're skirmishers for sure and don't want to fight like assault marines, but for 12 points... That's less cheap as hell.

13ppm but yea I fully agree. I have to reiterate the dumbfoundedness I feel that they share a codice with 10ppm wyches though

**TyraelVladinhurst**

pretre wrote:
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
pretre wrote:
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
hm, all of this seems okay. but i think i'll be staying away from DE until they get their old lance rules back (I.E. all armor above 11 counts as 11)

When did lance ever do that?

DE codex 3rd edition and the 3.5 edition

Yeah, I think CthuluIsSpy, myself and Red Corsair have your number. You're thinking of 12.

it was 11, i'll post a pic in a minute

**Red Corsair**

Oh well I will just continue to use my wyches for painting comps instead lol.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
pretre wrote:
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
pretre wrote:
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
hm, all of this seems okay. but i think i'll be staying away from DE until they get their old lance rules back (I.E. all armor above 11 counts as 11)

When did lance ever do that?

DE codex 3rd edition and the 3.5 edition

Yeah, I think CthuluIsSpy, myself and Red Corsair have your number. You're thinking of 12.

it was 11, i'll post a pic in a minute

Gotta find that sharpie first

**mercury14**

That Realspace Raid detachment grants 6 FA slots and gives all troops 5+ cover standing in the open and 6+ cover to non-troops. So run your wyches with that and when they have FNP and drugs they'll be just fine for 10 points.

**TyraelVladinhurst**

Red Corsair wrote:
Oh well I will just continue to use my wyches for painting comps instead lol.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
pretre wrote:
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
pretre wrote:
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
hm, all of this seems okay. but i think i'll be staying away from DE until they get their old lance rules back (I.E. all armor above 11 counts as 11)

When did lance ever do that?

DE codex 3rd edition and the 3.5 edition

Yeah, I think CthuluIsSpy, myself and Red Corsair have your number. You're thinking of 12.

it was 11, i'll post a pic in a minute

Gotta find that sharpie first

not even, i just got to find where i put it. having over 100 codex's is a bit of a pain when trying to find stuff

**pretre**

100 Codexes? Have there even been a 100 codexes? I'm pretty sure there haven't.

**CthuluIsSpy**

That...doesn't seem right.

**Hollismason**

Well congrats on Eldar getting open top transports.

If the rules are like that then we can look forward to Wraithguard in deep striking Raiders etc..

**Red Corsair**

mercury14 wrote:
That Realspace Raid detachment grants 6 FA slots and gives all troops 5+ cover standing in the open and 6+ cover to non-troops. So run your wyches with that and when they have FNP and drugs they'll be just fine for 10 points.

Do what you must but they are far from good. ANY benefit you just suggested applies also to warriors in the same slot who are just flat better. they have better armor, better gear AND cost less.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pretre wrote:
100 Codexes? Have there even been a 100 codexes? I'm pretty sure there haven't.

He keeps back ups maybe