Dust Tactics/Warfare/Battlefield: Operation Babylon Kickstarter (Goes live 8:00pm GMT)

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**Catyrpelius**

scarletsquig wrote:
I had a little dig around and if you look on e-figures distribution site you can see the entire contents of the kickstarter (including stuff that hasn't been "funded" yet) up for preorder:

http://www.e-figures.com/store/DustTacticsPreOrder.php

Here's the relevant KS stuff:

BFM D217 Dust Tactics: Babylon Campaign Set ~ TBA PreOrder $20.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D306 Dust Tactics: Axis Ndak Army Box ~ TBA PreOrder $150.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D307 Dust Tactics: Axis Rommel ~ TBA PreOrder $10.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D308 Dust Tactics: Axis Afrika Korps Command ~ TBA PreOrder $25.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D309 Dust Tactics: Axis Konigslothar - Heavy Artillery Walker ~ TBA PreOrder $45.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D310 Dust Tactics: Axis Tropical Light Panzer Walker ~ TBA PreOrder $33.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D401 Dust Tactics: SSU The Butcher ~ TBA PreOrder $10.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D402 Dust Tactics: SSU Spetnaz Army Box ~ TBA PreOrder $150.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D403 Dust Tactics: SSU Spetsnaz Command Team ~ TBA PreOrder $25.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D404 Dust Tactics: SSU Spetsnaz Infiltrators Squad ~ TBA PreOrder $25.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D503 Dust Tactics: Allies Silent Jack ~ TBA PreOrder $10.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D504 Dust Tactics: Allies USMC Army Box ~ TBA PreOrder $150.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D505 Dust Tactics: Allies USMC Command Team ~ TBA PreOrder $25.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D601 Dust Tactics: Mercenary Sisters Demolition ~ TBA PreOrder $25.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D901 Dust Tactics: Archaeological Ruins ~ TBA

If you go through the comments it appears that Battlefront is getting ready to take on every major online US retailer....

I backed this on my phone originally, but once I got home and actually looked through it... I'm pretty sure I won't be keeping my pledge.

**agnosto**

LoL. I thought that was against the Kickstarter rules? Wow.

**Some_Call_Me_Tim?**

Too bad the only viable KS options for Warfare players start at $150 + ~$30 in shipping. I'm pretty disappointed by this KS - no good discounts and a really steep buy-in if you want figures.

Guess I'll be waiting for retail release + Miniature Market's inevitable 20-30% discounts.

~Tim?

**Alpharius**

Plus free shipping.

Good job here Detective Squig - what a ridiculous 'campaign' this has turned out to be!

**Catyrpelius**

Alpharius wrote:
Plus free shipping.

Good job here Detective Squig - what a ridiculous 'campaign' this has turned out to be!

Maybe when they decide to try and strong arm The Warstore we will get a new discount code... This time around it could be Water or Duster...

**Trasvi**

Hmm. I was looking forward to this, but I'm not seeing anything exciting.
I got into Dust with the original box set, the revised box set and now have a decent zombie force and a Soldier/3 Allies force for Dust Warfare.

The Allies pledge level, the equivalent miniatures at full retail price would be $155. At Miniature Market's current prices, $97. Compared to Kickstarter price of $150 . Plus I get them now, not August+.
I'm disappointed they're still continuing with the paper mats. After the original box set with the stiff card boards, and after Deadzone's fantastic neoprene (wetsuit material) mat, I'm not touching the paper ones again.

I've pledged for the Allied force in anticipation of seeing some nice stretch goals, but unless I end up with double what is already on offer I can't see this really being worth my while. Not trying to be 'entitled' here, or sucked into the Mantic kickstarter mould... its that getting these models from Kickstarter is currently significantly more expensive than getting the same models in other ways.
Plus Soldier/1 sucks, and all the kits come with 2 squads of them. How on earth are they supposed to stand up to the Soldier/4s in the SSU team?

**Moopy**

scarletsquig wrote:

So, you can expect that list to be a spoiler for all the other "stretch goals" that backers will "fund", too.

You're missing the point. The point its that the Kickstarter isn't "funding" new minis, it's that it's getting the money together to get them out all at once instead having to wait while they come out piece meal.

That may change but currently it's about getting the funds to cut all the dies for a large splash release.

**agnosto**

Moopy wrote:
scarletsquig wrote:

So, you can expect that list to be a spoiler for all the other "stretch goals" that backers will "fund", too.

You're missing the point. The point its that the Kickstarter isn't "funding" new minis, it's that it's getting the money together to get them out all at once instead having to wait while they come out piece meal.

That may change but currently it's about getting the funds to cut all the dies for a large splash release.

You did notice the delivery date of August, right? Dies don't cut themselves overnight or even within a few weeks each. Tooling and die casting is a laborious process that takes a great deal of tweaking so they've either lied about the delivery date or they lied about how far along they are in the prep production process in order to avoid getting shutdown by Kickstarter as a pre-order scheme.

**Moopy**

Here are the lists of reportable violations. You'll see that "pre-orders" aren't part of that.

1. This project creator is spamming me. Project creators are not permitted to spam. This includes sending unsolicited mass emails and unsolicited @messages on Twitter.

2. This is a charity project. Funding for charities or causes is not permitted. This includes solicitations for charity organizations, awareness campaigns, and raising funds for personal (non-project) expenses.

3. This is not a project. A project is something with a clear end, like making an album, a film, or a new game. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced as a result.

4. Prohibited rewards. Raffles, discounts, coupons, contests, and investment offers are prohibited. For more, please review what's not allowed.

5. I see abusive behavior on this project. If you see inappropriate comments or other activity, let us know.

6. Intellectual property violation. A project is infringing on your copyright or trademark.

**scarletsquig**

Yeah, you're allowed to run a pre-order scheme on KS, even large ones like Ogre straight-up stated that the game was being made anyway, regardless of KS success or failure.

Nothing wrong with it from Kickstarter's perspective, which can generally be summed up as "as long as we get our 10% and don't get sued, we don't care".

Even offering the entire contents of your webstore as add-ons is supposed to be be against the rules, and smaller projects do have it enforced... larger ones get away with it.

**Moopy**

Can you show me where it says that? I'm not being combative, I'm actually interested in where that is. Especially since I backed the Ogre project.

**agnosto**

Hmm you're right. I seem to recall that they used to prohibit such but it appears by what you posted that they've foregone all pretense.

It still leaves a bad impression with me though. I thought that Dust was far enough along that they wouldn't have to resort to KS as a preorder mechanism but they appear desperate enough to do so. Sad really.

**scarletsquig**

@Moopy: If I remember correctly it was in the video.. I think, or wherever they talked about the history and production of it. It has been a while. It was more along the lines of "we want to figure out what kind of production run we'll need to do for this edition so that's why we're using KS, not because it won't get made if we don't fund".

**cincydooley**

Alex C wrote:
2112 wrote:
The War Store has the same three army boxes on pre-order for $112.99

http://www.thewarstore.com/product92719.html

http://www.thewarstore.com/product92725.html

http://www.thewarstore.com/product92729.html

And... "Every US Order Ships For Only $6.95!"

LAWL

Also,

EDIT: Creator just said on the comments that he's going to "have a chat" with Neil about the pricing, which I read as "threaten to withhold product unless Neil takes down the preorders for the duration of the kickstarter so it doesn't look like they are ripping off their customer base"...

If I was Neil I'd tell him to feth off. Battlefront is a gak company.

**Some_Call_Me_Tim?**

BF is going to be biting the proverbial hand that feeds them if they start cracking down on discounters like Miniature Market. They move crap-tons of Dust models. Heck, for a lotta people, MM's discounts are what got them into Dust in the first place.

The fanbois over on the Dust FB groups just have this to say about discounters and those that have decided to wait for retail release to get the Babylon units : "They seem to just like stirring the gak it seems and those that stir the gak should be forced to lick the spoon."

Real classy, guys.

~Tim?

**Moopy**

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
BF is going to be biting the proverbial hand that feeds them if they start cracking down on discounters like Miniature Market. They move crap-tons of Dust models. Heck, for a lotta people, MM's discounts are what got them into Dust in the first place.

The fanbois over on the Dust FB groups just have this to say about discounters and those that have decided to wait for retail release to get the Babylon units : "They seem to just like stirring the gak it seems and those that stir the gak should be forced to lick the spoon."

Real classy, guys.

~Tim?

Jerks are everywhere. Dakka has a reputation of being fully of uppity know-it-alls who enjoy belittling new people. Painting a group with a broad brush is a bad idea.

**Some_Call_Me_Tim?**

Moopy wrote:
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
BF is going to be biting the proverbial hand that feeds them if they start cracking down on discounters like Miniature Market. They move crap-tons of Dust models. Heck, for a lotta people, MM's discounts are what got them into Dust in the first place.

The fanbois over on the Dust FB groups just have this to say about discounters and those that have decided to wait for retail release to get the Babylon units : "They seem to just like stirring the gak it seems and those that stir the gak should be forced to lick the spoon."

Real classy, guys.

~Tim?

Jerks are everywhere. Dakka has a reputation of being fully of uppity know-it-alls who enjoy belittling new people. Painting a group with a broad brush is a bad idea.

FWIW, I'm a member of the group in question and have been for over a year.

Still, you've got a good point. The group in question is pretty good - there's just a handful that drag the atmosphere down.

~Tim?

**Moopy**

Me too. Although I don't post much- I just like looking at all the conversion work people do on their figures.

**gunslingerpro**

Kind of a disappointing showing so far. I know it's early, but the direction it seems to be headed in is less than promising.

I suppose I'll put Dust off for another year.

**warboss**

agnosto wrote:
You did notice the delivery date of August, right? Dies don't cut themselves overnight or even within a few weeks each. Tooling and die casting is a laborious process that takes a great deal of tweaking so they've either lied about the delivery date or they lied about how far along they are in the prep production process in order to avoid getting shutdown by Kickstarter as a pre-order scheme.

According to the OP:

Edit: Incidentally, via there forums and Paolo Parente's FB page it was confirmed that all molds are done,

**Barzam**

gunslingerpro wrote:
Kind of a disappointing showing so far. I know it's early, but the direction it seems to be headed in is less than promising.

I suppose I'll put Dust off for another year.

Aside from the vehicles, it all looks so normal. When I think Dust, what comes to mind is zombies, cyborg gorillas, lasers, and Germans with jet packs. Where's all the funk?

**highlord tamburlaine**

Funk is a $22 dollar stretch goal.

It's only available if you pledge for both an army and the campaign rules.

**Jehan-reznor**

Hm, bummer. I'll just order them when i see it on the Japanese Amazon.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

While I don't mind paying what will turn out to be full retail on a KS I really want to support (and that's usually a smaller company)

I really don't like being what looks like flat out lied to,

If they've already 'sold' all this through to distributors, cut the moulds they should be offering some sort of basic discount to the RRP on top of any 'stretch goals'

I really hope they re-think things otherwise I forsee a real funding crash towards the end

**Sining**

I like how BF thinks Neil from Thewarstore has a conspiracy to sell everything off at 25% discount. Isn't that what discount online stores do??

**Fenrir Kitsune**

I'm interested in the book and $20 seems a decent price. Is that what it'd be in RRP? If so, I'll just wait until I get it off the shelf in DS or somewhere.

**Azazelx**

Not all that surprised at the pricing or the "going after" Neal, etc. Battlefront have a good game (FoW) but they're well known for being a bunch of dicks - including bs like regional pricing (it was cheaper for me to get Open Fire from the UK than locally!) Just because they're not as bad as GW doesn't mean it's not also true of them.

**Hekal Xul**

How very disappointing. I was quite enthusiastic about this but now it seems the whole thing is a little dodgy.
To me at least it basically seems like an attempt by the parent company to cut the retailer out of the equation by selling directly to the customer and claim the mark-up for themselves.
Its an abuse I feel of the basic intent of the Kickstarter program as well when this is so blatantly a pre-order program..
Does not bode well for the future of the game when (here at least) its hardly supported in the first place.

**Alpharius**

highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Funk is a $22 dollar stretch goal.

It's only available if you pledge for both an army and the campaign rules.

Or if you wait until retail and get them cheaper, and get to use your money now on other things...

Have they tried to explain the whole "all already available to distributors" thing yet?

**Malika2**

Please make that terrain you have on your banner available!