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 RiTides wrote:
I thought the models were new...?

Dunno, maybe the infantry is new. Can't really tell, they all look the same without armour. The machines are slight variations on existing chassis designs. Booooring.

I think the KS will start to shine when the bonuses start to add up from the stretch goals.

Wow a jump from $20 to $150 right off the bat at full retail and no rules for people just starting.

I am guessing this KS is for the passionate DUST aficionado as opposed to the newbie.

I love the miniatures and the background but not looking to start a new game at full retail.

I have GW for that kind of self-abuse.

A few people here have asked if the KS includes the Dust Tactics core rules.

It does not.

No reason to panic as the new Dust Tactics rulebook can be downloaded for free from the Battlefront website.
http://www.dust-tactics.com/Home/tabid/56/entryid/148/Default.aspx

Floris wrote:
A few people here have asked if the KS includes the Dust Tactics core rules.

It does not.

No reason to panic as the new Dust Tactics rulebook can be downloaded for free from the Battlefront website.
http://www.dust-tactics.com/Home/tabid/56/entryid/148/Default.aspx

A company that publishes its rules for free....just gives them away....so people might try their game....and perhaps begin playing thereby purchasing their line of models.....heresy!

The only thing worthwhile of purchase is the premium edition. It is still not as good as the original fully painted set which you got 6 squads, 4 walkers, and 2 heroes with tiles and dice for the same price of $300. That may change if the pledge level is high enough to unlock a few bonus. At the time of writing, all Axis sets are gone. I am doubtful that anyone will give it up. If you are new, I suggest the SSU due to the type 4 soldiers.

they need to do something pretty impressive with stretch goals to get me interested. This Kickstarter looks more like a preorder which annoys me

Updates:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/duststudio/dust-operation-babylon/posts

The stretch goals are add-ons for $22 each (plus shipping). One of the KS Creator's comments in the comment section says "We have lots of fun options to add later as Paolo has truly surpassed himself on the creative front so fear not as the add-ons come every 10k for a bit as we wanted to get them out for viewing a.s.a.p."

To me that sounds like "no free stuff, just a $22 unit for every $10K".

EDIT:

This was posted a few mintues ago:

"We have no control over the Warfare rules at all as they belong to FFG so they will remain unchanged for the foreseeable future. We are simply making sure that all model units have cards in them for Tactics and Warfare."

This is news to me, but I'm out of the loop and this may be old news to some.

Update 2 confirms freebies on the way.

They'll need a lot of them to make this worth it, though.

LOL, first stretch goals are paid add-ons...

Amateur hour on KS...

It all seems horrible.

And shocking.

i think the problem is people are looking at this from a usual mini kickstarter, great value and cool freebies, this is more and more looking like a flat out preorder

Well, i'm not concerned as of yet, as freebies are incoming... That said, every time I see a $22 unit, i'm reminded of the fact that I literally today picked up a Dust Command Squad for $12 :-p

I am, however, thrilled in general though, as it looks like there will be plenty of Dust releases for me to pick up over the next couple years, one way or another.

Also, happy accident... but i'd always been painting my Allied minis in African Front colors, so I feel both fancy, and ahead of the curve. :-p

Seems like people are making this out to be a failure from the start, even though it's only been live for a few hours...

Talk about a lack of faith or confidence. If these were the last few hours of the project and nothing had changed, then I might be up in arms with everyone else. As it stands, the project is funded, and it's stretch goals from here on out.

Are people that quick to write this off as a loss already? They weren't asking for half a million, they aren't promising the world in terms of delivery, so I don't understand where the negative feedback is coming from.

Are projects with deep discounts and loads of minis the only thing allowed on Kickstarter now?

~iPaint

All kidding aside, there really seems to be little reason to pledge for this one.

It really is a pre-order, and I can certainly wait for these to hit discounted retail.

I suppose the 'freebies' might become so great that this one will become irresistible - but I doubt it.

I gave this a look over... is it really $150 for 14 minis and 3 vehicles?

Are the prepaints totally amazing and exactly what you see in the pictures or something because I'm really not seeing any value here.

Edit: They're just undercoated? Seriously? Not even half-decent prepaints like AT-43?

No no...

ALL the models are pre-assembled/based/under-coated.

The pre-paints are fully painted to a surprisingly good quality. I prefer to paint my own which is why I don't buy them, but some folks swear by 'em and won't buy anything else.

 scarletsquig wrote:
I gave this a look over... is it really $150 for 14 minis and 3 vehicles?

Are the prepaints totally amazing and exactly what you see in the pictures or something because I'm really not seeing any value here.

Edit: They're just undercoated? Seriously? Not even half-decent prepaints like AT-43?

Yes, each army is undercoated in a particular color. Grey for Axis, green for Allies, and kind of a khaki for SSU. That said, the undercoats are very nicely done, and are easy to paint over with no need for priming. The little doodz are a soft bendy plastic while the vehicles are hard plastic, but all have great detail.

Tactics is a fun board game, my 9- and 11-year old kids like the simplicity and the carnage. The minis are really nicely done for Weird WWII, so may have other uses outside of Dust if you are so inclined.

But not for the prices in the KS.

This just seems like so much fail.

With 40k going through an upheaval - this was the perfect time to throw something out there and make a great statement.

Instead, it seems we have found a company that takes its' cues from GW....

Disappointed.

 -iPaint- wrote:
Seems like people are making this out to be a failure from the start, even though it's only been live for a few hours...

Talk about a lack of faith or confidence. If these were the last few hours of the project and nothing had changed, then I might be up in arms with everyone else. As it stands, the project is funded, and it's stretch goals from here on out.

Are people that quick to write this off as a loss already? They weren't asking for half a million, they aren't promising the world in terms of delivery, so I don't understand where the negative feedback is coming from.

Are projects with deep discounts and loads of minis the only thing allowed on Kickstarter now?

~iPaint

In response to your last question yes. Battlefront/Dust Studios are asking me to pay upfront for things I won't get for a couple of months. Basically they are asking for a loan, and not offering to pay you any interest on it. In fact, the interest rate on the loan is currently negative (you are paying them to take your money now rather than later) as I can get the same models at retail for a lot less.

This makes Dust Studios look either utterly naive and incompetent, or like they are deliberately trying to screw over fans.

The War Store has the same three army boxes on pre-order for $112.99

http://www.thewarstore.com/product92719.html

http://www.thewarstore.com/product92725.html

http://www.thewarstore.com/product92729.html

And... "Every US Order Ships For Only $6.95!"

2112 wrote:
The War Store has the same three army boxes on pre-order for $112.99

http://www.thewarstore.com/product92719.html

http://www.thewarstore.com/product92725.html

http://www.thewarstore.com/product92729.html

And... "Every US Order Ships For Only $6.95!"

Can't even argue this one.

2112 wrote:
The War Store has the same three army boxes on pre-order for $112.99

http://www.thewarstore.com/product92719.html

http://www.thewarstore.com/product92725.html

http://www.thewarstore.com/product92729.html

And... "Every US Order Ships For Only $6.95!"

LAWL

Also,


EDIT: Creator just said on the comments that he's going to "have a chat" with Neil about the pricing, which I read as "threaten to withhold product unless Neil takes down the preorders for the duration of the kickstarter so it doesn't look like they are ripping off their customer base"...

I'm falling in love with Dakka KS threads all over again.

Conundrum for a kickstarter.

Most if not all KS give a discount as a thanks for financially backing us. Probably could have better orchestrated and researched. Kingdom Death and CMON, MegaCon KS are probably a good way to research on how to lay out a successful kickstarter (general layout, not carbon copy).

On the other hand, if I were passionate about the product, I wouldn't necessarily mind paying full retail, if it meant the project would not be underestimated and result in dead dog s#!t minis. Also helps knowing I will get some freebies down the road as well.

Not a fan of DT rules at all, but their mechs (or robots) are some the most enjoyable miniatures I have ever painted.

It is apparent that Battlefront is attempting to monetize Dust The new boxes of the older walkers now only make a single variant and retail for more than the old multi-variant boxes.

I would not be surprised to see online retailers in the future held to a maximum 10% discount, just like FOW.

So, do I want to grab one of those $40 Tactics revised core boxes off of Miniature Market's sale?

Would that be totally different than the stuff on offer here?

It's not like I don't have a billion other things to paint, build, or play...

Hard to say. I was hoping for a grand slam and some different business model. We'll all be able to tell at the end of the kickstarter...

 Alex C wrote:

2112 wrote:
The War Store has the same three army boxes on pre-order for $112.99

http://www.thewarstore.com/product92719.html

http://www.thewarstore.com/product92725.html

http://www.thewarstore.com/product92729.html

And... "Every US Order Ships For Only $6.95!"

LAWL

Also,


EDIT: Creator just said on the comments that he's going to "have a chat" with Neil about the pricing, which I read as "threaten to withhold product unless Neil takes down the preorders for the duration of the kickstarter so it doesn't look like they are ripping off their customer base"...

Wow.

I had a little dig around and if you look on e-figures distribution site you can see the entire contents of the kickstarter (including stuff that hasn't been "funded" yet) up for retail preorder:

http://www.e-figures.com/store/DustTacticsPreOrder.php

Here's the relevant KS stuff:

BFM D217 Dust Tactics: Babylon Campaign Set ~ TBA PreOrder $20.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D306 Dust Tactics: Axis Ndak Army Box ~ TBA PreOrder $150.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D307 Dust Tactics: Axis Rommel ~ TBA PreOrder $10.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D308 Dust Tactics: Axis Afrika Korps Command ~ TBA PreOrder $25.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D309 Dust Tactics: Axis Konigslothar - Heavy Artillery Walker ~ TBA PreOrder $45.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D310 Dust Tactics: Axis Tropical Light Panzer Walker ~ TBA PreOrder $33.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D401 Dust Tactics: SSU The Butcher ~ TBA PreOrder $10.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D402 Dust Tactics: SSU Spetnaz Army Box ~ TBA PreOrder $150.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D403 Dust Tactics: SSU Spetsnaz Command Team ~ TBA PreOrder $25.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D404 Dust Tactics: SSU Spetsnaz Infiltrators Squad ~ TBA PreOrder $25.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D503 Dust Tactics: Allies Silent Jack ~ TBA PreOrder $10.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D504 Dust Tactics: Allies USMC Army Box ~ TBA PreOrder $150.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D505 Dust Tactics: Allies USMC Command Team ~ TBA PreOrder $25.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D601 Dust Tactics: Mercenary Sisters Demolition ~ TBA PreOrder $25.00 Log in to see cost
BFM D901 Dust Tactics: Archaeological Ruins ~ TBA

The characters are the same RRP as in the KS, too.

This one is the $80k stretch goal:

BFM D403 Dust Tactics: SSU Spetsnaz Command Team ~ TBA PreOrder $25.00

And this one is the "yet to be funded, but retailers have already bought them by the truckload" $90k stretch:

BFM D901 Dust Tactics: Archaeological Ruins ~ TBA

So, you can expect that list to be a spoiler for all the other "stretch goals" that backers will "fund", too.

I think this might be the clearest cut "already funded, just a preorder" KS we've seen in a while. Their cute infographic on the KS front page about how they'd have to wait to release this all really slowly if they didn't use KS is looking a touch ridiculous when retailers have already been buying all the stuff before this even launched.

I also put good odds on the contents of the retail army box ending up being 100% identical to the "KS army box + KS bonus freebies".

I do have some interest in this game, but hopefully FFG will have more to do with it in future than battlefront.