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Well the first of what people would consider a normal, "hefty" freebie stretch-goal was just announced, with each "Army Deal" getting a free walker chassis if the campaign reaches $450,000. In essence it adds about 20-30 to each $150 pledged as it lets those extra arm freebies actually be fielded concurrently.

Not bad, but that is a high goal to reach for the first genuinely exciting stretch-goal.

Especially with the freebies included in the higher tiers (rules books, dice, card sets...) there is SLOWLY a value trickling into this KS, but its also very rigid, making me still feel like i'm inclined to get more bang for my buck by waiting for discounted retail and cherry picking the exciting items.

Also, the shadowed upcoming stretch-goals FINALLY show models that don't seem to be reusing chassis and body molds from earlier units.

So many units, Walkers and Infantry alike are using repeat poses from existing Dust models which does drive me crazy though.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:


So many units, Walkers and Infantry alike are using repeat poses from existing Dust models which does drive me crazy though.

So alot of the new stuff is just repaints of older items?

No, not repaints of older items.

From what I can see, new units of Soldier 1 category (basically, fatiques and helmet, no armor vests) - truly basic grunts - are in the works for the existing three factions: light troops for tropical/desert environment.

Also, there are new Soldier 3 - Marines in powered armor, and the equivalent for the Krauts as well (the SSU skipped that category of soldier and went right up to Soldier 4 but I haven't seen any images of them for Babylon).

Many of the light walkers appear to be given an "open-top" variant, with some new weapon systems.

There also appear to be new variants of Medium and Heavy walkers.

Its an aesthetic thing, but my problem is that they seem to reuse sculpts very, very often.

Why, for instance, are new Infantry 1, Axis units using identical poses as the later Axis Zombie models?

Yes, they do seem to reuse poses/sculpts often.

Why? To annoy you! On a mostly serious not - I imagine to save on production costs... 'so the savings can be passed to you!'

Not really serious, sorry, but I can't help it - if you are looking for truly unique sculpts for every grunt and variant thereof, I'd recommend a different game.

However, if you like the setting, relatively low cost, and generally tight rule-set, I'd stick with Dust.

I'm not knocking your concerns, I just don't believe those particular issues will ever be addressed by Dust Studios for the forseeable future - it is just not that high on their list of priorities, since everything available is "good enough".

These are my personal opinions.

Oh, i'm not going anywhere as a fan. :-p

Reused sculpts are only a pet peeve because I own every single release for all three factions to date. As such, I am used to it. Stuff like the "Hellboys" being identical sculpts to a unit in the original/revised core set, but which had different stats. :-p

In a couple cases, i'm pretty sure I own four identical sculpts that came with four entirely different squads, and even in one case, across factions. :-p

That said, the cost has always been low, the quality high, and tons of my stuff also doubles as "Not 40k" models. :-p Namely SSU Tanks that can easily become Leman Russ' at half the cost or less.

My one thought with this kickstarter is "why didn't we see a new faction"? That would have been huge and could have easily brought in far more money.

Dust really needs a fourth faction (Aliens, Japanese). I know we're somewhat limited by the story containing three blocs.

A fourth faction would get me more likely to want to add a significant chunk more than I have currently pledged.

 Twelvecarpileup wrote:
My one thought with this kickstarter is "why didn't we see a new faction"? That would have been huge and could have easily brought in far more money.

Dust really needs a fourth faction (Aliens, Japanese). I know we're somewhat limited by the story containing three blocs.

With the success(and quicker release schedule due to funding) we're very likely to see The Japanese sooner rather than later. Likely via another kickstarter this Fall.

Dust Battlefield rules are out:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/duststudio/dust-operation-babylon/posts/864114

Thoughts?

Seems like a really basic wargame to me... not sure if I want to jump from warfare to this quite yet.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Starfarer wrote:

 Twelvecarpileup wrote:
My one thought with this kickstarter is "why didn't we see a new faction"? That would have been huge and could have easily brought in far more money.

Dust really needs a fourth faction (Aliens, Japanese). I know we're somewhat limited by the story containing three blocs.

With the success(and quicker release schedule due to funding) we're very likely to see The Japanese sooner rather than later. Likely via another kickstarter this Fall.

Probably, but I think they would have been better off releasing a new faction before these African themed units. A new faction could have revitalized it more then this kickstarter. Don't have a problem with what we're seeing, but I just think they would have been better off with a new faction first.

Should maybe start a new thread for the Battlefields rule set?

 Twelvecarpileup wrote:


Probably, but I think they would have been better off releasing a new faction before these African themed units. A new faction could have revitalized it more then this kickstarter. Don't have a problem with what we're seeing, but I just think they would have been better off with a new faction first.

I don't disagree. However, Babylon was already announced and people were expecting it. Dust needs a 4th faction for sure. I've held off on starting an Allies or SSU army waiting for the Japanese to be released, so believe me, I want them to come out as soon as possible! As I said, I'm guessing the success of this Kickstarter will lead to more. I think they can maintain more interest this way, as well as accelerate the release schedule. It is really win-win for Dust Studios and the players.

As for this Kickstarter, it is almost to the tipping point of good enough deal to jump in for the army deal even though I don't have much interest in the basic Axis troops for Babylon. I do want just about everything else though. Just waiting to see if that $275k unlock is indeed a quad-laser heavy walker the silhouette seems to indicate. If it is, I'm in.

It seems some of the 'Kickstarter' models have hit Miniature Market

^ And at a 30% discount. Nice!

Anyone know what international delivery from Miniaturemarket is like?

The prices in that store are fantastic and they stock other niche non-miniature stuff I buy as well (complete MLP CCG range!).

Edit: Even with shipping, a lot of stuff on there works out way cheaper than buying in the UK. Customs is the only wildcard though, could randomly make it more expensive since I've heard of import fees being as high as 33%. /:

These are the numbers (for the UK) to keep in mind

The 'safe' zone (you can easily figure out possible costs)
£15.01 to £135 (calculated from exchange rate on the day of arrival)
◾ No customs duty
◾ Import VAT due on goods + postage (20% unless it's a paper book which is vat free)
◾Collection fee £8 from RM, couriers can be more


The 'complicated zone'
£135.01 and greater (calculated from exchange rate on the day of arrival)
◾ Import VAT due on goods + postage (20% unless it's a paper book which is vat free)
◾ Collection fee £8 from RM, couriers can be more
◾ Customs duty due, but . complicated and hard to figure out, 'human' figures attract different rates than 'non-human', boardgames are zero rated, but some boardgames aren't classified as boardgames etc. waived if the amount calculated due is less than £9

Ouch - it's one thing if some products hit retail before the backers get them.

It's another if they hit retail before the KS is even over.

Schmapdi wrote:
Ouch - it's one thing if some products hit retail before the backers get them.

It's another if they hit retail before the KS is even over.

This project was about accelerating the release of a product line that was going to be made anyway, so I'm going to guess that the ones that are releasing now were going to release now KS or no.

It is funny though.

I'm pretty sure that all of these miniatures were going to be released via retail chains in a rather timely fashion anyway.

This is one silly 'Kickstarter'!

Schmapdi wrote:
Ouch - it's one thing if some products hit retail before the backers get them.

It's another if they hit retail before the KS is even over.

That model was in stores before the KS even started. gak I think it was around under Fantasy Flight too... I'd guess it's just thematic to include it with the armies.

Sining wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

PomWallaby wrote:
I was suckered in by the Early Bird pledge levels (again). A free mini is a free mini but it is all too easy to slap some Early Bird deals on a project for an early spike and call a project a success.
All this Dust Kickstarter has shown me so far is just how many good deals are already out there for Dust. (Without the Kickstarter Risk).
I am going to take a rain check on this and come back in 30 days.

Oldest retail trick in the book.

Reminds me of a local FLGS retailer. He had a large travel-luggage style figure case for $220, and offers a flat 10% on all his products.

When I went to the manufacturer's website to see where else they're sold, I noticed that their MSRRP for those cases was $200....

Better than the cafeteria shop at my friends workplace. Where they sold 1 puff for 30 cents and 3 for 1 dollar. And people still bought the 1 dollar option -_-

You know in situations like that its possible the MSRRP has gone up and no one has told the retailer. This industry is astoundingly poor for product management information from manufacturers. By astoundingly poor I mean mind boggling in how poor it can be. Just to add, Bfront are one of the better in this industry but some manufacturers seem to want to keep their product information a secret.

Schmapdi wrote:
Ouch - it's one thing if some products hit retail before the backers get them.

It's another if they hit retail before the KS is even over.

There are no exclusive items in this kickstarter, aside from different colored dice and stuff like that. NOthing in this kickstarter is about giving backers something other can't get. It's about accelerating the release of the entire campaign, rather than having it stretch out over a longer period of time.

That Jadgluther has been available from Dust Studios for years in a resin kit and has been out on Warstore for over a month. Now the variant kits for the Jadgleopold and Jadgwotan are new and coming out with this kickstarter.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm pretty sure that all of these miniatures were going to be released via retail chains in a rather timely fashion anyway.

This is one silly 'Kickstarter'!

That's not really the case. They are already into releases for the second North Africa campaign(Babylon being the first) so this has pushed the release schedule 9-12 months going off of the previous release time frames. This also serves to get us that much closer to the release of the Japanese faction, which Dust studios is already dropping hints and teases of in the kickstarter comments.

So this might not be the right place to ask this but is Dust a board game or a miniatures game? It looks pretty neat as an alternative-WW2 style game, but like I can't find a lot of information regarding what type of game it is. It'd be pretty neat I think as an actual Miniatures game, a la Bolt Action, but it seems like it's something kinda like the old Battletech where you have a little battle map to play games with (and could buy more that I recall), but later you can "graduate" to a table and terrain later if you want.

Might have to check it out; seems like it'd be a good way to play a WW2 style game without the constraints of history.

WayneTheGame wrote:
So this might not be the right place to ask this but is Dust a board game or a miniatures game? It looks pretty neat as an alternative-WW2 style game, but like I can't find a lot of information regarding what type of game it is. It'd be pretty neat I think as an actual Miniatures game, a la Bolt Action, but it seems like it's something kinda like the old Battletech where you have a little battle map to play games with (and could buy more that I recall), but later you can "graduate" to a table and terrain later if you want.

Might have to check it out; seems like it'd be a good way to play a WW2 style game without the constraints of history.

It looks like Dust Tactics is a board game, and Dust Battlefield is a miniatures game, with the kind of graduation from a grid map to a table and terrain but using the same miniatures and a few shared base rules that you're talking about. At least that's how it was described on BoW anyway.

I'm still interested, but holding fire for now.

Same here.

Something just seems 'off' or 'wrong' with this KS.

 Alpharius wrote:
Same here.

Something just seems 'off' or 'wrong' with this KS.

Agreed. Other campaigns are criticized for just being glorified preorders but this one takes it another step further and is partly just a glorified "order" for stuff you can already get apparently.

WayneTheGame wrote:
So this might not be the right place to ask this but is Dust a board game or a miniatures game? It looks pretty neat as an alternative-WW2 style game, but like I can't find a lot of information regarding what type of game it is. It'd be pretty neat I think as an actual Miniatures game, a la Bolt Action, but it seems like it's something kinda like the old Battletech where you have a little battle map to play games with (and could buy more that I recall), but later you can "graduate" to a table and terrain later if you want.

Might have to check it out; seems like it'd be a good way to play a WW2 style game without the constraints of history.

Dust Tactics is a grid based miniature game. It falls somewhere between miniatures boardgame and a wargame. Tactics:Battlefield uses the same core rules, but removes the grid and it is just played on a table and has some advanced rules. Terrain can be used in both. Tactics sets will come with 2D terrain on the grids or as separate card tiles. You can buy the 3D terrain or use your own. Both rules sets are contained in the 2nd edition rules which are on pre-order and release next month. You can get free downloads of the rules on the Dust website right now though: http://www.dust-tactics.com/Gaming/tabid/90/entryid/187/Default.aspx

edit: Also forgot to talk about the expansions. So new units and scenarios are released via campaign expansions. These add new units, which all have their rules on unit cards which come with every model in the box. The expansions aren't necessary to play or use the new models, but they do allow you to run a campaign or just play new scenarios. These typically are rolled out in waves over several months to a year. This kickstarter is basically to allow them to splash release the whole campaign at once, rather than releasing over an extended period. I think this is generally well received among the current Dust community, as we get everything sooner as opposed to having to wait like we have in the past.

There is also a separate game using the Dust models called Dust Warfare. This has a separate rulebook and expansion books. You can buy Warfare unit cards now and skip the expansion purchases I believe, although you may need Zverograd for the SSU. Anyway, this play a little more like 40k or similar scaled wargames. It is supposed to be really good, and was designed in part by Andy Chambers. I have the rulebook but haven't read it thoroughly or played it yet, so my knowledge of this is a bit limited. Since Fantasy Flight Games has the rights to Warfare until their current stock runs out, and Battlefront has the rights to Tactics, there is a bit of uncertainty on how it will continue, although BF does produce cards for every unit released, so it is supported in that regard. However, it may become the case the Tactics: Battlefield eventually replaces Warfare.

There is also a Tabletop RPG called Dust Adventures in the works that will use the same models, and the rules are being developed by Modiphius Entertainment: http://www.modiphius.com/dust-adventures.html

If you are looking to get started with the game and wanted to get 2 forces to lure friends in or just for your own use, I think the best way is to do the following. You can currently get the starter sets on Miniature Market for 30% off, so $35. These include 1 hero, 2 units and 1 walker each, as well as a paper mat for Tactics and a starter rulebook. You can also do the New Recruit option in the kickstarter that has the rulebook, 1 hero, 1 walker and 1 unit for 2 factions of your choice. If you combined this with 2 starter sets, you're going to have 2 decent armies and a hardcopy of the rules for under $200.

Lastly, their are a lot of people who "Dustify" existing 28mm WW2 vehicles for use in Tactics and people make unit cards for them online. So if you're looking to go slightly sci-fi instead of Zombies, war gorillas and lasers level sci-fi, it can be done fairly easily.

Needless to say, I'm a pretty big fan of it. If you have any other questions, I'll try to answer them if I can.

 warboss wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Same here.

Something just seems 'off' or 'wrong' with this KS.

Agreed. Other campaigns are criticized for just being glorified preorders but this one takes it another step further and is partly just a glorified "order" for stuff you can already get apparently.

That's quite a bit of an exaggeration. One unit can be purchased that came out within the last month as part of the Babylon expansion. It's core chassis an a single weapon variant at that. All other variants are only available through the kickstarter. So that's kind of like saying a SM Stalker isn't a new unit because a Rhino already exists.

One item is all the KS being out at retail?

 Starfarer wrote:
That's quite a bit of an exaggeration. One unit can be purchased that came out within the last month as part of the Babylon expansion. It's core chassis an a single weapon variant at that. All other variants are only available through the kickstarter. So that's kind of like saying a SM Stalker isn't a new unit because a Rhino already exists.

You forgot to add the all important "so far" to all of your sentences. It is a bit naive to think that a company that is using kickstarter to sell an EXISTING product (which is technically against the website's rules) even in one case wouldn't do so again. Also, weren't online retailers preselling (or even just selling... don't recall) the same kits as in the kickstarter for cheaper as reported earlier in this thread? I'll admit that I follow this peripherally but the whole campaign from day 1 has persistently had a fishy odor from the subpar "deals" to the attitude in posts and now to select "kickstarted" items already being available.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
These are the numbers (for the UK) to keep in mind

The 'safe' zone (you can easily figure out possible costs)
£15.01 to £135 (calculated from exchange rate on the day of arrival)
◾ No customs duty
◾ Import VAT due on goods + postage (20% unless it's a paper book which is vat free)
◾Collection fee £8 from RM, couriers can be more


The 'complicated zone'
£135.01 and greater (calculated from exchange rate on the day of arrival)
◾ Import VAT due on goods + postage (20% unless it's a paper book which is vat free)
◾ Collection fee £8 from RM, couriers can be more
◾ Customs duty due, but . complicated and hard to figure out, 'human' figures attract different rates than 'non-human', boardgames are zero rated, but some boardgames aren't classified as boardgames etc. waived if the amount calculated due is less than £9

Thanks for the info, 20% VAT on item+shipping really does murder a good deal. Interesting to know about paper books being VAT-free though, think I'll be making a few barnes and noble orders for stuff with that in mind.

Shipping is the big hit for books,

I used to buy loads from B&N when it was cheaper, but now it's mainly better to go to Amazon.co.uk