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 welshhoppo wrote:
Smash is now one attack at double strength.

Bloodthirster will barely scratch the paint on AV12 now.

Confirmed or procrastination?

> Procrastination.

I don't think that means what you think it means.

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:
> Procrastination.

I don't think that means what you think it means.

Just checked it, and yeah, my head dictionary needs rewriting.

 welshhoppo wrote:
Smash is now one attack at double strength.

Bloodthirster will barely scratch the paint on AV12 now.

Seriously, how many vehicles have AV11+ rear armor? Land Raider, LR Demolisher... what am I missing? Bloodthirsters will be fine assaulting transports, though the landing with no assault rule is annoying.

Against Walkers however.

How did Sanguinius have an issue with Bloodthristers when he could have just sent a Dreadnought to take care of it.

 rabidguineapig wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Smash is now one attack at double strength.

Bloodthirster will barely scratch the paint on AV12 now.

Seriously, how many vehicles have AV11+ rear armor? Land Raider, LR Demolisher... what am I missing? Bloodthirsters will be fine assaulting transports, though the landing with no assault rule is annoying.

That Librarian Psyker dread sure isn't going to let your Bloodthirster get at those blood angel vehicles without showing it's power fist up the Bloodthirster's rear end.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Exergy wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:


edit: though without EW.... dreads are still STR10 on melee attacks yeah, so ID so lame... soo sooo lame..

Relying on Psychic powers when interfering with them is easier than ever may not be the best idea.

Agree absolutely, i dont want to have to rely on them at all. it would and will be terrible, they could have just made daemon include EW again, but apparently didnt, kind of them no? so osme of these powers will save DP from ID buuut well, gonna need it because they are going to get shot at even more

GW seems very reluctant to give out EW these days given that the Tyranids have absolutely no access to it period and it was stripped away as a native rule from all Daemons.

but of course every chaptermaster is running around with a 3++ and EW, because F xenos.

ALL ABOARD THE IMPERIAL SPANK TRAIN! DESTINATION FETH EVERYONE WHO PLAYS CHAOS OR XENOS!

 Kain wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:


edit: though without EW.... dreads are still STR10 on melee attacks yeah, so ID so lame... soo sooo lame..

Relying on Psychic powers when interfering with them is easier than ever may not be the best idea.

Agree absolutely, i dont want to have to rely on them at all. it would and will be terrible, they could have just made daemon include EW again, but apparently didnt, kind of them no? so osme of these powers will save DP from ID buuut well, gonna need it because they are going to get shot at even more

GW seems very reluctant to give out EW these days given that the Tyranids have absolutely no access to it period and it was stripped away as a native rule from all Daemons.

but of course every chaptermaster is running around with a 3++ and EW, because F xenos.

ALL ABOARD THE IMPERIAL SPANK TRAIN! DESTINATION FETH EVERYONE WHO PLAYS CHAOS OR XENOS!

D':

 rabidguineapig wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Smash is now one attack at double strength.

Bloodthirster will barely scratch the paint on AV12 now.

Seriously, how many vehicles have AV11+ rear armor? Land Raider, LR Demolisher... what am I missing? Bloodthirsters will be fine assaulting transports, though the landing with no assault rule is annoying.

All Necron vehicles.

Its only 11 for nearly all of them though, so that's not a big challenge for even a single S10 attack, given that you HIT.

FMCs got nerfed overall, and that's good. but if you just stick to arial vector striking, you got boosted. and that's fine, because its the opportunity cost of getting into CC, and controlling your movement.

Overall, a healthy change. (it looks more and more as if nids were written with 7th in mind rather then 6th.)

 Selym wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:


edit: though without EW.... dreads are still STR10 on melee attacks yeah, so ID so lame... soo sooo lame..

Relying on Psychic powers when interfering with them is easier than ever may not be the best idea.

Agree absolutely, i dont want to have to rely on them at all. it would and will be terrible, they could have just made daemon include EW again, but apparently didnt, kind of them no? so osme of these powers will save DP from ID buuut well, gonna need it because they are going to get shot at even more

GW seems very reluctant to give out EW these days given that the Tyranids have absolutely no access to it period and it was stripped away as a native rule from all Daemons.

but of course every chaptermaster is running around with a 3++ and EW, because F xenos.

ALL ABOARD THE IMPERIAL SPANK TRAIN! DESTINATION FETH EVERYONE WHO PLAYS CHAOS OR XENOS!

D':

Don't worry, the non-space Elf xenos will make sure to share lube with non-Daemonic Chaos players (and Khornate Daemon players too). Best to bite the pillow and hope future codices will treat us better.

God I am dreading playing my FMC list against a vehicles heavy Cron list. I know both armies & sometime play them both against each other if I'm bored or being foreveralone.

In 6ED the Flying Circus had massive problems against crons, Barges could torrent them out the sky, Ghost Arcs & Nightscythes kept all the juice troops hidden away & D.Lords w/ MSS & Wraiths can take out a DP pretty easy. You'd have to play a cowardly game of hiding & waiting for a mistake or take a risk to start taking out units.

In 7ED, smash is no longer a reliable way to take out vehicles. Having to land a turn before assaulting is a massive nerf, casting Invisibility does some what counter it. Casting Flicking Fire is going to take 6-8 dice for 4d6 Heavy bolter in the hope you can glance Av11 rear armor or melt a troop unit. Everything scoring is a plain nightmare for the Flying Circus, most games I'd win by killing troops & getting first blood/linebraker.

A side note but Flicking Fire is pretty much god awful now. My 1K5 6ed Flying Circus list had 15 Warp Charges, now I'll be using more than half such to cast this one mediocre power. Horrors got shafted so hard, they will only be taken to get another warp change as you certainly won't be shooting with them.

Is the Flying Circus dead? Maybe. I think once we all get a the book it will come clear that putting all your points into single units is going to be counter productive. The Tactical cards seems to be throwing out so maybe Victory points you can't afford not to be using them. No more dance around the board til turn 5.

 Nakor The BlueRider wrote:
God I am dreading playing my FMC list against a vehicles heavy Cron list. I know both armies & sometime play them both against each other if I'm bored or being foreveralone.

In 6ED the Flying Circus had massive problems against crons, Barges could torrent them out the sky, Ghost Arcs & Nightscythes kept all the juice troops hidden away & D.Lords w/ MSS & Wraiths can take out a DP pretty easy. You'd have to play a cowardly game of hiding & waiting for a mistake or take a risk to start taking out units.

In 7ED, smash is no longer a reliable way to take out vehicles. Having to land a turn before assaulting is a massive nerf, casting Invisibility does some what counter it. Casting Flicking Fire is going to take 6-8 dice for 4d6 Heavy bolter in the hope you can glance Av11 rear armor or melt a troop unit. Everything scoring is a plain nightmare for the Flying Circus, most games I'd win by killing troops & getting first blood/linebraker.

A side note but Flicking Fire is pretty much god awful now. My 1K5 6ed Flying Circus list had 15 Warp Charges, now I'll be using more than half such to cast this one mediocre power. Horrors got shafted so hard, they will only be taken to get another warp change as you certainly won't be shooting with them.

Is the Flying Circus dead? Maybe. I think once we all get a the book it will come clear that putting all your points into single units is going to be counter productive. The Tactical cards seems to be throwing out so maybe Victory points you can't afford not to be using them. No more dance around the board til turn 5.

The Tyranid flying circus remains strong because it doesn't need psychic powers for any of it's dakka.

Shame about vector striking though.

I guess it's official now that the only simple way to run a Hive Tyrant is to use a dakka tyrant. I'm still determined to run a melee Tyrant, it's just going to be very terrain dependent now.

*edit: Changed my mind

Sigvatr wrote:

 rabidguineapig wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Smash is now one attack at double strength.

Bloodthirster will barely scratch the paint on AV12 now.

Seriously, how many vehicles have AV11+ rear armor? Land Raider, LR Demolisher... what am I missing? Bloodthirsters will be fine assaulting transports, though the landing with no assault rule is annoying.

All Necron vehicles.

Those sneaky robot bastids. You can still at least have 7 attacks at S7 on the charge (and does smash still give you re-roll armor pen if you attack normally?) to get a few glances through. It definitely does hurt and FMC Daemon lists are going to require even more finesse than before, though it will be more about positioning for objective cards than worrying about getting grounded. They gave them a bit of a boost in resiliency but trimmed their claws at the same time. Portaglyph/Summoning shenanigans to get loads of troops will help a bit with this though.

I can also see Daemonettes being pretty useful for their D6+3" run toward Maelstrom of War objectives. I'll also be bringing Iridescent Horrors/Bloodreapers/Plagueridden/Alluresses in case I draw those challenge someone for D3 victory points cards though.

It will definitely be tougher to keep your opponent from scoring with an FMC list in the new system - I also know that swooping mc's can't score, but does anyone know if they contest?

rabidguineapig wrote:It will definitely be tougher to keep your opponent from scoring with an FMC list in the new system - I also know that swooping mc's can't score, but does anyone know if they contest?

They cannot. I just got my copy of the book last night, and the basic gist of it is that everything is scoring, except for things that are flying (and the usual stuff that specifically says it can't score), and only scoring units can deny control of an objective.

Skullhammer wrote:
Gods help the thirster against any av13 walker 1 smash that 1/3of the time will miss to even stand a chance to hurt it yeaa god of battle with a rubber axe.

Poor Bloodthrister. Now loosing to a Dread.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Skullhammer wrote:
Gods help the thirster against any av13 walker 1 smash that 1/3of the time will miss to even stand a chance to hurt it yeaa god of battle with a rubber axe.

Poor Bloodthrister. Now loosing to a Dread.

Well at least he can glance the Ironclad on the turn he charges... if he's the one that charges...

Then again he is a Bloodthirster and not an iron thirster, but even still I'd have to imagine Iron is an essential nutrient in any healthy Bloodthirster's diet.

 rabidguineapig wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Skullhammer wrote:
Gods help the thirster against any av13 walker 1 smash that 1/3of the time will miss to even stand a chance to hurt it yeaa god of battle with a rubber axe.

Poor Bloodthrister. Now loosing to a Dread.

Well at least he can glance the Ironclad on the turn he charges... if he's the one that charges...

Then again he is a Bloodthirster and not an iron thirster, but even still I'd have to imagine Iron is an essential nutrient in any healthy Bloodthirster's diet.

Khorne help that poor Bloodthirster if he's going up against a Blood Angels Furioso Contemptor with Blood Talons.

Give the blood thirsted some rewards and there is a good chance he ends up with armorbane, or a strength 8 lance shot. Close combat dreads are now not useless I'd stop crying blood thirsters and other flying monsterous creatures are still good in CC.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Skullhammer wrote:
Gods help the thirster against any av13 walker 1 smash that 1/3of the time will miss to even stand a chance to hurt it yeaa god of battle with a rubber axe.

Poor Bloodthrister. Now loosing to a Dread.

In my 15 years of playing, MCs have always been ridiculously overpowered in melee against walkers. I'm not shedding any tears here.

Pony_law wrote:
Give the blood thirsted some rewards and there is a good chance he ends up with armorbane, or a strength 8 lance shot. Close combat dreads are now not useless I'd stop crying blood thirsters and other flying monsterous creatures are still good in CC.

Except those are random and Khornate Dp are jokes with thirsters hardly being better. Also remember a thirster is an expensive beat stick to begin with. I agree that dreads needed a buff. At least to kill rip tides in CC though. That stuff was BS but now my LoC is better at killing dreads than my thirster. Nothing like S8 boomsticks.

Sometimes I just wish everything gave up armor and hopped over to wounds.

Here come the white knights!

 Kain wrote:
Here come the white knights!

[sarcasm ]

GW has every right to make money, you shouldn't act like trying to sell more models is a bad thing.
As you all should know, there is no cannon in 40k, anything and nothing is true. It makes total sense for all IOM psykers to start summoning daemons, without being heretics.
GW has reasonable prices, because of how high-quality their stuff is.

[ /sarcasm]


...


I think my blood pressure doubled as I wrote that.

 Kain wrote:

The Tyranid flying circus remains strong because it doesn't need psychic powers for any of it's dakka.

Shame about vector striking though.

These two comments directly contradict each other.

Not really.

Unless Tyranid FMC guns just became psychic powers...

Vector Strikes aren't Dakka

Well thats kind of sad. I liked switching out my flyrants with a lash whip bonesword every now and then to switch up what people would expect.

Obviously this is a down for chaos more than tyranids at the moment since melee flyrants aren't the most competitive.

 Kain wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
Oh, move through cover preserves your assault init too now.

Banshees and Bloodletters are slightly less god awful now! Huzzah!

But doesn't that mean that assault grenades and the likes of the Skull Cannon need to be changed?

Bloodletters don't have MTC.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
Oh, move through cover preserves your assault init too now.

Banshees and Bloodletters are slightly less god awful now! Huzzah!

But doesn't that mean that assault grenades and the likes of the Skull Cannon need to be changed?

Bloodletters don't have MTC.

For the lord of war, Khorne's followers sure seem to suck at it.

Where does it say MTC preserves assault initiative? I can't seem to find where it says that in the rule book.


Under 'Charging Through Difficult Terrain' it says:

Warhammer 40000: The Rules, Assault Phase, pg. 47 wrote:
...if at least one model in the charging unit moved through difficult terrain as part of its charge move, all of the unit's models must attack at initiative step 1, regardless of other initiative modifiers, even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain...

and the explanation for Move Through Cove only says that 'it is not slowed by charging through difficult terrain'. No mention of ignoring the 'initiative step 1' section of 'Charging Through Difficult Terrain'...

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Where does it say MTC preserves assault initiative? I can't seem to find where it says that in the rule book.

It doesn't, you're still stuck at initiative 1 without grenades.