Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, wih the advent of new 7ed, and Explodes result pushed to 7+ result on damage table, how the heck wi kill those land raiders?
Melta drop was a risky tactic in the past, bu now it is even less so (each melta pen explodes only on 5+=33%)
Lass cannons and lances pens only explode on 6+.
MC only get 1 Smash attack, and it's AP2 pen also only explodes on 6+ only.
What are we to do?

To be honest, I dont know how to kill vehicles now. In 6th and 5th I was counting on LC fire, because after pen there was always 33% chance to kill vehicle...now I only have 16.6%...well, gak...

It wasnt easy before (wave serpents and Landraiders are around me...) now it will be...how to describe it...blechrhhcthulhuhhtpfujpfujftagn!...in other words, quite difficult

Ally Land Raiders. lol Just kidding

you can still glance it to death just fine. might take you an extra turn is all.

Eihnlazer wrote:
you can still glance it to death just fine. might take you an extra turn is all.

Glance it to death....you know that LC is something you dont usually have in so large numbers you can glance enemy LR with it...

"might take you an extra turn is all" - in a game, which usually takes 6 turns, that "one turn more" is quite a big change...

Maybe GW just got tired of making their models out of explodium. We actually have to battle tanks now.

Gauss... I think we use gauss. And monoliths.... many many monoliths

We will find a way. It will be cheezy to play those av 14 boxes for sure, but i think good old melta will do, lance weapons, lascannons, demolisher cannons... list is endless. I think it will be anyhow glances that will put those to scrap. Not not mention D weapons that will come available.

And as a necron player, i prefer gauss.

single models that cost 250+ points should not die from a single round of firing from even an equivilent point cost unit.

It should take 2-3x as many points worth of models to kill it in one turn.

This is assuming you are advancing across the table at each other from the start of the game.


If your using units specialized at deep striking melta, they a unit worth 80-120% of its points should be able to take it out.

Land raider nothing, Try killing a Flare shielded Spartan with ceramite armor. Those things are going to be unstoppable.

For the Wave Serpent mention, they have been hugely nerfed as they will only have their jinx if they forget their killing power, so now a choice is necessary, it is a huge (needed) nerf that makes it normal i think.

For the LR, yes it will be very hard to kill, but that is the point of a LR, it is crappy in terms of damage output for its point so it sounds normal that it should be hard to kill.
I would say to use the following :
- Tyranids : Carnifex or flyers or ignore it ^^
- Deamons : some MC can still kill it (sure not in just one turn as before but that sounds normal to me)
- SMC : oblits or some DP with the right stuff (iron arm and warp speed for instance for lots of S9 attacks)
- SM : grav will work, or droppod melta
- IG : lots and lots of LC
- orks : bikerboss or bikernobz or SAG (or wait for new codex)
- eldar and DE : lance weapons
- GK : DK
- necrons : gauss
- sororitas : lots of melta (they have lots anyway)
- tau : crisis with melta
see everyone has something, maybe they were not taken in lists, but that just mean that, what a surprise, the meta will chance a bit with a new edition.

I think it is normal (and i dont play LR myself) and quite good that a 250pts heavy box is not killed in a single round by any MC and much harder for anyone else to kill

Eihnlazer wrote:
single models that cost 250+ points should not die from a single round of firing from even an equivilent point cost unit.

Exactly. That was my intended reponse. My landraiders and dreadnought were basically shelved. They are now comming back since I know I will at least be able to do something with them on turn and possibly two as well.
Instant kiling a 40pts rhino, I have no problem with that. Its expected and their role is to live one round and then serve as cover. But a LR should be there for a majority of the battle unless your opponent goes out of his way to remove it with concentrated firepower.

Landraider Achillies look even more fun now, with their inherent -1 damage table ability you will need an AP1 weapon and a roll of a 6 to destroy it in 1 shot.

Landraider Achillies aside this change is a welcome one though. Landraiders were too weak as they were. Compare a Landraider to a Wraithknight and you can see the problem.

Still, the ways to destroy them remain the same. You will just have to do more work to get your prize however.

Man just think about how rage inducing Land Raider Achilles tanks will be. Or worse yet; an Iron hands Achilles tank, with the Clan Raukaan 4+ IWND reiic from a Master of the Forge. Invulnerable save from Dark Angel allies is optional. Very expensive, but it's not going down to anything short of a D-weapon. You can have more than one Achilles anyway. Three of them may just prove to be functionally impossible to get rid of for most lists.

In any case, it seems that hull point stripping or D strength weapons is your only real recourse to deal with Land Raiders, Superheavy vehicles, and Monoliths.

So far, 7e seems to only bring good things to the Necrons.

On no, I can't rely on anti infantry weapons to kill heavy armor.
The sky has fallen!

 minigun762 wrote:
On no, I can't rely on anti infantry weapons to kill heavy armor.
The sky has fallen!

Meltas, Hive Tyrants, and Lascannons have had Anti-tank as part of their portfolio since they were conceived of.

Unless you're using Meltas and Lascannons and trusting a 200+ point unit with only four (five) attacks with mediocre resiliency per point to kill infantry in droves for some reason.

I packed 20 Brightlances and a Firestorm Redoubt in my last 1500 point game. With how Night Fight may have changed (from what I've read), things like Land Raiders seem MORE vulnerable. It's nice to blow up a tank, but I don't think it's overly necessary when you can glance it to death. Wrecks are left in play, provide a 5+ cover save and there is no more mention of placing a crater after a vehicle explodes. Assaulting a vehicle also appears unchanged.

I'll get some games in this weekend, but I don't see things like Land Raiders being any more survivable than before.

I would say the same as they always have. Just use melta gun. Oh noes! Our meltas now explode on the same roll as they did in 5th what will we do! Sorry for sounding a bit like an a** there. The vehicle damage chart really needed the buff since HPing tanks to death was already an easy way to kill it let alone the severely weakened damage chart allowing a melta to slag a tank on a 4+.

Also, for those who think that Land Raiders are now safe from Monstrous creatures; A Wraith knight still kills it just as dead as before.

First come the shots from the Wraithcannons, then comes the Wraithknight itself, who will be turning the land raider inside out in one go.

The Dreadknight doesn't really fare that much worse either, with doomfists it had no need to smash anyway.

Crushing claw carnifexes also open them like tin boxes.

Units that rely on glances kill it as well as they killed it before.

Ultimately, shooting still works pretty well to kill high armor vehicles.

All this really means is that assault has taken yet another nerf as the phase grows less and less relevant with every new edition.

Because assault needed to be weaker after 6e.

Clearly.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A GumyBear wrote:
I would say the same as they always have. Just use melta gun. Oh noes! Our meltas now explode on the same roll as they did in 5th what will we do! Sorry for sounding a bit like an a** there. The vehicle damage chart really needed the buff since HPing tanks to death was already an easy way to kill it let alone the severely weakened damage chart allowing a melta to slag a tank on a 4+.

Meltas got wrecks on 4s in 5e.

A meltagun got a oneshot kill on a tank just as often in 5e as they did in 6e.

Unless everyone's already forgotten 5e.

From the nostalgia crowd I think people have indeed forgotten 6th edition.

Land raiders, either you have the tools to kill it(which means your list doesnt suck in that regard)

Or you dont and you ignore it.

 Kain wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
On no, I can't rely on anti infantry weapons to kill heavy armor.
The sky has fallen!

Meltas, Hive Tyrants, and Lascannons have had Anti-tank as part of their portfolio since they were conceived of.

Unless you're using Meltas and Lascannons and trusting a 200+ point unit with only four (five) attacks with mediocre resiliency per point to kill infantry in droves for some reason.

I believe we are agreeing if I understand your point to be that anti tank weapons should be used on tanks and anti infantry weapons on infantry.

Sternguard meltas in drop pods. Killing heavy armor with style since 5th edition.

Multimeltas. Attack bikes and Stormravens make great delivery systems for them.

 minigun762 wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
On no, I can't rely on anti infantry weapons to kill heavy armor.
The sky has fallen!

Meltas, Hive Tyrants, and Lascannons have had Anti-tank as part of their portfolio since they were conceived of.

Unless you're using Meltas and Lascannons and trusting a 200+ point unit with only four (five) attacks with mediocre resiliency per point to kill infantry in droves for some reason.

I believe we are agreeing if I understand your point to be that anti tank weapons should be used on tanks and anti infantry weapons on infantry.

Except the last one isn't particularly good at killing vehicles or massed infantry now. And the changes make Tyranid rupture cannons, Heavy Venom Cannons, Krak Missiles, and Battle cannons (even more) laughably inept at anti-tank. Essentially, this only encourages hull point stripping.

You know, the thing people complained about?

Because while a battlecannon can now never take out even an Ork trukk in one hit (as if Ordinance Russes needed to get any worse) this does...absolutely nothing to lessen the ability of grav centurions to reduce tanks to dust.

 Kain wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
On no, I can't rely on anti infantry weapons to kill heavy armor.
The sky has fallen!

Meltas, Hive Tyrants, and Lascannons have had Anti-tank as part of their portfolio since they were conceived of.

Unless you're using Meltas and Lascannons and trusting a 200+ point unit with only four (five) attacks with mediocre resiliency per point to kill infantry in droves for some reason.

I believe we are agreeing if I understand your point to be that anti tank weapons should be used on tanks and anti infantry weapons on infantry.

Except the last one isn't particularly good at killing vehicles or massed infantry now. And the changes make Tyranid rupture cannons, Heavy Venom Cannons, Krak Missiles, and Battle cannons (even more) laughably inept at anti-tank. Essentially, this only encourages hull point stripping.

You know, the thing people complained about?

Because while a battlecannon can now never take out even an Ork trukk in one hit (as if Ordinance Russes needed to get any worse) this does...absolutely nothing to lessen the ability of grav centurions to reduce tanks to dust.

At least pick a target where you are right. A battle cannon can get an ork trukk because they are open topped. Now a rhino it can not.

However that just means that it is a bad use of your resources to target a rhino/trukk with a battle cannon.

Deffrollas, Deffrollas everywhere!

Short of that: BikerBosses.

I like this change from 6th. Tanks were way too easy to kill before.

5 wyches with haywire grenades

I think that more lances and fire dragons will be finding their way into my eldar armies now!

As for my csm, terminators with meltas and chainfists, possible in land raiders.

Might even invest in a second!

 paqman wrote:

Eihnlazer wrote:
single models that cost 250+ points should not die from a single round of firing from even an equivilent point cost unit.

Exactly. That was my intended reponse. My landraiders and dreadnought were basically shelved. They are now comming back since I know I will at least be able to do something with them on turn and possibly two as well.
Instant kiling a 40pts rhino, I have no problem with that. Its expected and their role is to live one round and then serve as cover. But a LR should be there for a majority of the battle unless your opponent goes out of his way to remove it with concentrated firepower.

Frankly, I just ignore land raiders most of the time. Just like I ignore most flyers. They're hard to kill units, but their fire power usually isn't enough to make them worth killing. It'd have to kill four guard squads in a game, or a Russ and a chimera, to earn back it's points. And most people will have terminators inside the land raider which makes no sense to me (just like marines inside marines for centurions). You concentrate your points to the point of absurdity, putting 2+ save guys inside a 14/14/14 vehicle is crazy.

Pask in a punisher with LC and melta sponsons.