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Made in us
Raging Ravener





I think that's what I really love about the new edition change. It really benefits the natural Necron durability. It's really hard to shove reanimating units off an objective, and makes units, like Praetorians, a little more attractive because of that.

I'm also really enjoying the idea of Flayed Ones now...They almost act like psuedo Ork blobs. Just spread out across the objective and try to get things to move you.

I can't help but also think Night Scythes are going to be pivotal in claiming the opponent's objectives/contesting. Throw some Immortals with Gauss Blasters - who nuke all Non-MEQ/TEQ fairly easily - and blow enemy troops off objectives while you use reanimating Warrior and Flayed One blobs to claim your own...
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Perth, Australia

Or, just sit Anni Barges on your objectives.

I think that Ghost Arks are rapidly becoming the transport of choice for me. Being able to leave an empty GA (with a Spyder or two for support) on an objective in the middle of the board is cool. NS are good for deep drops (or maybe veiling immortals) and will be really handy combined with Z and phased reinforcements.

But I agree, the new edition is opening up new options and making lots of units viable - I think mainly because everything scores.


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Does anybody know how things like Royal Court, Szeras, Phyrrian Immortals are going to work with Necron Ally Necron?
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Perth, Australia

Not know, but the main question for me is whether you can detach a cryptek from a royal court from CAD A and put it into warriors in CAD B.

I haven't got my codex with me, but a lot will depend on what the wording in the requirements for the royal court says. I'm pretty sure it says to attach the cryptek to a unit in your army so cross detachment deployment looks ok in that case.

   
Made in za
Fixture of Dakka




Temple Prime

Tried the 7e rules on a few private games on vassal, the improvements to Jink saves made my Tesla boats (Anni barges and Night Scythes) extremely frustrating for my opponents to kill while super-scoring immortals were able to steal objectives from out beneath my enemy's noses at the last minute. As I predicted, the new vehicle damage charts meant very little for the Necrons as we have many methods of hull point stripping or decidedy nonstandard ways to kill vehicles. An enemy had hoped to have his Chaos contemptor dread break my royal court; but the Warscythe remained as awesome as ever and quickly disabused the Chaos contemptor of that particular illusion. As far as our MCs go, Spyders and Sentinels don't mind the nerfs overly much as they weren't getting in many attacks in the first place, but Tomb Stalkers and Shards took a bit of a hit.

I also got in a few games against the 7e Tyranids, which made up the majority (two out of three) of the games I got in since Sunday. Against an assaulty groundpounding nid Army I ended up dominating the game so thoroughly that the enemy conceded by turn four after I was standing on most of the objectives and had wiped out a full three fourths of his army. As I expected, the shooty dragonflight (my nickname for tyranid flier and jump unit spam lists since they do kind of look like dragons) list was the substantially harder fight and got quite hairy several times. The new D-weapon rules turn Tyranid bio-titans from laughable Transcendant C'tan and Superheavy Pylon fodder into an actually serious threat, if one that I'd say is still lesser than that of an equivalently costed Imperial or Eldar titan. Not the Heirodule though, the Heirodule still remains a pile of fail.

The games seem to be confirming my suspicions that 7e is only really bringing good things to the Necrons and I hope that any future codexes remain strong. Hopefully the Tyranid, Chaos Space Marine,and Dark Angel codex debacles will convince GW to not release such bad and/or mediocre books in the future.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.



 
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





7e is only really bringing good things to the Necrons and I hope that any future codexes remain strong. Hopefully the Tyranid, Chaos Space Marine,and Dark Angel codex debacles will convince GW to not release such bad and/or mediocre books in the future.


Sadly, with how good our codex is at the moment, I have a feeling it's going to be mostly downhill for us when our next book comes out.
I guess we'll find out in '15 (if current rumors are to be believed)

 
   
Made in za
Fixture of Dakka




Temple Prime

 skoffs wrote:
7e is only really bringing good things to the Necrons and I hope that any future codexes remain strong. Hopefully the Tyranid, Chaos Space Marine,and Dark Angel codex debacles will convince GW to not release such bad and/or mediocre books in the future.


Sadly, with how good our codex is at the moment, I have a feeling it's going to be mostly downhill for us when our next book comes out.
I guess we'll find out in '15 (if current rumors are to be believed)

As long as we get Ward to work on the book again we should be fine.

We're fethed if it's Cruddace though.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.



 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Perth, Australia

 Kain wrote:
 skoffs wrote:
7e is only really bringing good things to the Necrons and I hope that any future codexes remain strong. Hopefully the Tyranid, Chaos Space Marine,and Dark Angel codex debacles will convince GW to not release such bad and/or mediocre books in the future.


Sadly, with how good our codex is at the moment, I have a feeling it's going to be mostly downhill for us when our next book comes out.
I guess we'll find out in '15 (if current rumors are to be believed)

As long as we get Ward to work on the book again we should be fine.

We're fethed if it's Cruddace though.


This....sooooo this

Ward FTW!

   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





MarkCron wrote:
 Kain wrote:
 skoffs wrote:
7e is only really bringing good things to the Necrons and I hope that any future codexes remain strong. Hopefully the Tyranid, Chaos Space Marine,and Dark Angel codex debacles will convince GW to not release such bad and/or mediocre books in the future.

Sadly, with how good our codex is at the moment, I have a feeling it's going to be mostly downhill for us when our next book comes out.
I guess we'll find out in '15 (if current rumors are to be believed)

As long as we get Ward to work on the book again we should be fine.

We're fethed if it's Cruddace though.

This....sooooo this

Ward FTW!

I could have sworn they said Ward wasn't allowed to solo write codexes anymore after all the backlash.
... which is good, because the Necron codex was an utter train wreck when it first came out (needed a 5 page FAQ to make it work right, and even then they still hadn't fixed everything.)

Regardless, back on topic, how about them Tomb Blades, then?
Relatively cheap super fast scoring, jink saves that can be helped with Shadowloom, plus twin linked Tesla so it doesn't really care too much about snapshots.
I think I definitely need to consider making space for them in my lists, now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/28 10:31:51


 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




 skoffs wrote:
7e is only really bringing good things to the Necrons and I hope that any future codexes remain strong. Hopefully the Tyranid, Chaos Space Marine,and Dark Angel codex debacles will convince GW to not release such bad and/or mediocre books in the future.


Sadly, with how good our codex is at the moment, I have a feeling it's going to be mostly downhill for us when our next book comes out.
I guess we'll find out in '15 (if current rumors are to be believed)


Print off and laminate the FAQs that just came out. That had the couple of tweaks to make the current codex compatible with 7th.

When the new codex comes out, if its a dud, we'll have both to choose from, at least for friendly games (my gaming club would have no problem with that, especially since it has 7th edition faqs).

That said, I'm thinking the next codex might actually be pretty beast...finally some codex-specific warlord traits and artifacts. And I bet they throw in some anti-psyker goodies in those lists.
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





The thing I most want is for Deathmark's Ethereal Interception rule to match the fluff and actually grant them the Interceptor USR (as it stands, E.I. is practically useless. Yes, it's slightly more useful in 7th, as they can jump on an objective during an opponents turn, but really, that's not why you take Deathmarks. More than likely somebody f'd up and forgot to include the mechanic when the codex was written).

 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




It'd be cool if there "sniper" rifles had some range, too.
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Nah, their rapid fire guns are fine. The fluff explains they're not long range snipers so much as they are assassins. They can appear from anywhere, kill a thing, job done. They don't need distance for that (their weapons use "sniper" as a mechanic because it's more convenient than making a new rule up).

But speaking of sniper and 7th, wtf is up with them removing pinning from the rule!
Rending is "gone", too, but at least the basic mechanic is still intact.

 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




 skoffs wrote:
Nah, their rapid fire guns are fine. The fluff explains they're not long range snipers so much as they are assassins. They can appear from anywhere, kill a thing, job done. They don't need distance for that (their weapons use "sniper" as a mechanic because it's more convenient than making a new rule up).


Yeah, after re-reading the fluff I agree. Plus, I think 32" HFH @19 points a piece would be pretty friggin OP...however, I would NOT complain if they gave DMs range

 skoffs wrote:
But speaking of sniper and 7th, wtf is up with them removing pinning from the rule!
Rending is "gone", too, but at least the basic mechanic is still intact.


Maybe long range pinning spam was an issue? It wasn't an issue in the circles I play in...

In 6t, when I used deathmarks, I took 2+ units for multiple HFH, and used them to DS into RF range and annihilate units, and as such they always became high target priorities, so I never really got much benefit from the pinning part.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/28 12:19:46


 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Perth, Australia

Rending is gone, which sucks, but at least we still get AP2 on a role of a 6.

RE tomb blades, I'm off to pick some up this weekend to test them out. FA is an even more crowded slot now, with scarabs being so useful.

I'm almost thinking that taking two CAD is a requirement.

   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




<deleted>

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/05/28 12:28:14


 
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





MarkCron wrote:
I'm almost thinking that taking two CAD is a requirement.
... I feel like I should know what CAD stands for...

 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Perth, Australia

 skoffs wrote:
MarkCron wrote:
I'm almost thinking that taking two CAD is a requirement.
... I feel like I should know what CAD stands for...


Sorry, too many posts on FOC. CAD = Combined Arms Detachment.

   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Weighting in on this by Skoff:

HQ
Imotekh -- Expensive, no offensive power besides lightnings, nerf to Nightfight. Only got worse.
Zandrekh ++ Still the vastly superior named character in the current codex.
Obyron ++ Still a good model. Sadly lost the ability to take a CCB.
Orikan -- Very expensive, difficult terrain now even worse, terrible special ability.
Anrakyr - MitM still completely useless, lost the ability to take a CCB. Improving Immortals still is "meh" as the unit size is max 10.
Szeras - Too expensive for what it brings to the battlefield. Still worth a shot if you manage to give a blob of super-scoring Warriors T5.
Trazyn -- Trash weapon, low defense, lost his special ability.
Overlord + Got a huge buff due to the improved CCB.
Destroyer Lord = Aye, same.
Lord = Same.
Cryptek = Same.
H. Despair ++ Veil allows for super fast scoring. Expensive though.
H. Destruction + Got a buff by the (hopefully) temporary huge nerf to Gauss Sentry Pylons.
H. Eternity -- Absolute trash weapon, very expensive with only 1 viable piece of war gear.
H. Storm + Haywire. Much love. So Wow.
H. Trans = same.

TROOP / TRANSPORT
Warrior + Buffed by superior GA and thus higher lasting power.
Immortal = same
Nightscythe + Nightscythes cannot score as they cannot hover. Still a good flyer. Buffed by huge nerf to Interceptor.
Ghost Ark ++ Became way more resilient, now has a free 4++ every turn.
Command Barge ++ Might be the new star. Excels vs. MC / tanks. If ridden by Kutlakh can instagib every MC in the game. Very powerful.

ELITES
Deathmark - Now scoring, but very expensive and a nerf to Sniper weapons in general.
Lychguard - Still bad.
Preatorian = Same.
C’tan -- Still trash.
Flayed One - Still trash. Slight buff by Overwatch / GtG change.
Stalker + New vehicle damage table buffed it a bit. Still too expensive by 20 points.

FAST
Wraith ++ Still your go-to-pick for Fast.
Scarabs +++ Scoring, Fearless, replenishable. Yuuuus.
Destroyer - Still way too expensive. Slight buff by Jink.
Heavy D. + Still way too expensive. Slight buff by Jink.
Tomb Blade + Can no longer jink and shoot their blast. Scoring and fast. Models look like gak.

HEAVY
Spyder + Still good MC, buffed due to better Scarabs.
Annihilation Barge + Slight nerf to fire power, buff to survivability.
Doom Scythe -- Way to expensive, completely outclassed by the Sentry Pylon, no scoring.
Doom Ark -- Still an absolute piece of trash. Hey, it got even worse! You can no longer get a Jink Save and shoot because it only fires Blasts.
Monolith = Slightly more durable (only buffed by the new vehicle damage chart), still too expensive / poor weaponry. Still outclassed by Sentry Pylons and AB.
Sentry Pylons + Still one of the best picks for the book as it delivers much needed high AP weaponry. Gauss got a huge nerf that is hopefully getting fixed soon. Take the Deathray for now.

   
Made in za
Fixture of Dakka




Temple Prime

 skoffs wrote:
MarkCron wrote:
 Kain wrote:
 skoffs wrote:
7e is only really bringing good things to the Necrons and I hope that any future codexes remain strong. Hopefully the Tyranid, Chaos Space Marine,and Dark Angel codex debacles will convince GW to not release such bad and/or mediocre books in the future.

Sadly, with how good our codex is at the moment, I have a feeling it's going to be mostly downhill for us when our next book comes out.
I guess we'll find out in '15 (if current rumors are to be believed)

As long as we get Ward to work on the book again we should be fine.

We're fethed if it's Cruddace though.

This....sooooo this

Ward FTW!

I could have sworn they said Ward wasn't allowed to solo write codexes anymore after all the backlash.
... which is good, because the Necron codex was an utter train wreck when it first came out (needed a 5 page FAQ to make it work right, and even then they still hadn't fixed everything.)

Regardless, back on topic, how about them Tomb Blades, then?
Relatively cheap super fast scoring, jink saves that can be helped with Shadowloom, plus twin linked Tesla so it doesn't really care too much about snapshots.
I think I definitely need to consider making space for them in my lists, now.

Ward gets a bit over-enthusiastic with his books, but you can tell he at least tries (unless it's Orcs and Goblins) and puts his all into each book he writes. He does write stuff that does need heavy FAQing but I've come to expect that out of GW's codex writers. Overall, ever since his...rocky start, he's made an effort to improve. Compare his prose in Iyanden to what he wrote for the Space Marines 2008 or GKs book for example.

Cruddace on the other hand; you can plainly tell when he doesn't really feel for an army. Compare how bland and uninspired his Tyranid and Tomb King books are to the Space marines and Imperial Guard. And even when he likes an army his fluff is incredibly boring and incredibly dry. No real effort at narrative, just a chain of related events and descriptions.

In addition, Cruddace has abysmal internal balancing abilities. His books tend have the problem of having equal parts auto-take or complete trash units. If he doesn't like your army, you can even expect mono-builds if you want to win.

While some Ward dexes have aged far better than others (Blood Angels aged terribly, his Space marine book aged decentish, his Grey Knights are aging well, and the Necrons have aged amazingly) he generally at least makes books with good internal balancing (not perfect, but at least good by GW standards) and fun and flavourful rules. Cruddace though...I'd never let him touch another xenos army again.

Kelly has really wonky internal balancing, a love of DICEROLLSALLTHEDICEROLLSDICEROLLSFOREVERYONE, auto-take units (Serpents, Heldrakes, winged Daemon princes, the Duke, Long Fangs, Grav Falcons, Lootas/Nob bikers/Battlewagons) and generally his codexes are eternally quite powerful with the exception of the CSMs and Orks (the latter mostly due to aging badly, they were hella strong in their time, I'm a bit hesitant to class Dark Eldar due to their tendency to either crush an enemy or go down in flames).

Vetock I'm still unsure of. His first 40k book seemed awesome for a while before aging ridiculously fast and his Tau book is...divisive. He seems to have genuine talent though but he's an unknown.

Of course with GW's new name policy we can only really make guesses as to who wrote what codex, and wouldn't really be able to tell if a new writer joined the fray if they didn't tell us.

In the new book, I'm hoping that instead of just nerfing the old tactics to promote the new/underselling models, GW instead tries to make the new or underloved things as viable as the current favorites, perhaps some rebalancing here and there (but it doesn't need overly much, the Necron book is very solidly balanced as a whole).

My personal wish-list:

Pariahs
A Counter-Psyker cryptek
More counter-psyker options
More viable destroyers
Flayed ones moved to troops and fixed up.
Some buffs handed out to Praetorians, Lychguard, C'tan Shards, and Doomsday arks.
More appropriate costing for nightscythes and annihilation barges.
A good, powerful set of relics. More Space marine relics of the chapter, less Tyranid Bio-artefacts.
Warlord traits that actually mesh well with the army.
Some female special characters. Some Phaerakhs or female Crypteks.
Some more ground based AA options, and/or a dedicated air to air fighter.
A true tank.
Maybe a monstrous creature/walker.
Dropping the insistence on having EVERYTHING be WS4 or lower and I2 or lower and actually hand out fluffier scores.
Rebalancing the Crypteks so that some aren't leagues better than others.
Interceptors for Deathmarks and longer ranged sniper rifles.
Dynasty tactics.
A ground based transport that can carry immortals too.
Letting Szeras and Anrakyr affect Lychguards and Praetorians, who could use those stat buffs and special rules far more than Immortals.
Making the other special characters more viable so that Zandrekh isn't a near auto-take all the damn time.
Fixing flux arcs so that the Monolith's pew pew splodey gun doesn't make them next to unusable.
Thomas fething MacAbee.


 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.



 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




I'd LOVE to see the option for an all-Canoptek cron army with no RP. Put that Tomb Stalker beastie in the main codex, and add a non-RP troop choice like Canoptek Automotons or something. Give the Illumniator some rules that buff Canoptek units, similar (but better) to what he does now for Warriors. As it stands now, that dude is one of the biggest wastes of a cool (IMO) sculpt in the codex.

Although they're so looked down upon, I usually had great results from Monoliths in 6th. I made great use of their transport mojo. They only got better with 7th because they're harder to explode, so I'll still be using them in some lists. What kind of changeswould you like to see out of the Flux Arc?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/28 12:57:12


 
   
Made in za
Fixture of Dakka




Temple Prime

 Sigvatr wrote:
Weighting in on this by Skoff:

HQ
Imotekh -- Expensive, no offensive power besides lightnings, nerf to Nightfight. Only got worse.
Zandrekh ++ Still the vastly superior named character in the current codex.
Obyron ++ Still a good model. Sadly lost the ability to take a CCB.
Orikan -- Very expensive, difficult terrain now even worse, terrible special ability.
Anrakyr - MitM still completely useless, lost the ability to take a CCB. Improving Immortals still is "meh" as the unit size is max 10.
Szeras - Too expensive for what it brings to the battlefield. Still worth a shot if you manage to give a blob of super-scoring Warriors T5.
Trazyn -- Trash weapon, low defense, lost his special ability.
Overlord + Got a huge buff due to the improved CCB.
Destroyer Lord = Aye, same.
Lord = Same.
Cryptek = Same.
H. Despair ++ Veil allows for super fast scoring. Expensive though.
H. Destruction + Got a buff by the (hopefully) temporary huge nerf to Gauss Sentry Pylons.
H. Eternity -- Absolute trash weapon, very expensive with only 1 viable piece of war gear.
H. Storm + Haywire. Much love. So Wow.
H. Trans = same.

TROOP / TRANSPORT
Warrior + Buffed by superior GA and thus higher lasting power.
Immortal = same
Nightscythe + Nightscythes cannot score as they cannot hover. Still a good flyer. Buffed by huge nerf to Interceptor.
Ghost Ark ++ Became way more resilient, now has a free 4++ every turn.
Command Barge ++ Might be the new star. Excels vs. MC / tanks. If ridden by Kutlakh can instagib every MC in the game. Very powerful.

ELITES
Deathmark - Now scoring, but very expensive and a nerf to Sniper weapons in general.
Lychguard - Still bad.
Preatorian = Same.
C’tan -- Still trash.
Flayed One - Still trash. Slight buff by Overwatch / GtG change.
Stalker + New vehicle damage table buffed it a bit. Still too expensive by 20 points.

FAST
Wraith ++ Still your go-to-pick for Fast.
Scarabs +++ Scoring, Fearless, replenishable. Yuuuus.
Destroyer - Still way too expensive. Slight buff by Jink.
Heavy D. + Still way too expensive. Slight buff by Jink.
Tomb Blade + Can no longer jink and shoot their blast. Scoring and fast. Models look like gak.

HEAVY
Spyder + Still good MC, buffed due to better Scarabs.
Annihilation Barge + Slight nerf to fire power, buff to survivability.
Doom Scythe -- Way to expensive, completely outclassed by the Sentry Pylon, no scoring.
Doom Ark -- Still an absolute piece of trash. Hey, it got even worse! You can no longer get a Jink Save and shoot because it only fires Blasts.
Monolith = Slightly more durable (only buffed by the new vehicle damage chart), still too expensive / poor weaponry. Still outclassed by Sentry Pylons and AB.
Sentry Pylons + Still one of the best picks for the book as it delivers much needed high AP weaponry. Gauss got a huge nerf that is hopefully getting fixed soon. Take the Deathray for now.


Adding to this: Tomb Stalkers - The monstrous creature nerfs hurt badly and at 220 points you really want this thing to pull it's own weight.

Acranthites + Essentially unchanged. Still quite good, and with the monstrous creature nerfs they can freely eat a Trygon or a Daemon prince and not give a damn.

Tomb Sentinel == Against anything that you really wanted to smash/had any business putting the Sentinel into assault with, you didn't get rampage anyway, and it's shooting attack remains as goofy as ever. It's still a bizarre choice that took a bit of a nerf.

Tesseract Ark ++ Improved by the new damage rules, and at AV14 it really doesn't need to jink much anyway. The firepower it puts out remains rather mediocre (especially compared to Leman Russ tanks) but it's a swiss army knife. Though on the other hand, you're probably only going to be using the "totally not a plasma destroyer" as the S5 armourbane line sucks and the Fleshbane AP3 template lacks torrent. Still rather underwhelming but cool.

Night shroud bomber + Interceptor took a big nerf and the jink changes benefit it a bit. Still extremely costly however. If Draigowing does indeed return as a thing people use, this may just be the option to take to make the Grey Knights cry, then again, Heat Cannon or Death Ray Pylons can do the same thing.

Superheavy Pylon - More or less unchanged, never run it under the Warzone Damnos rules ever. The D-weapon nerf does hurt, but if it rolls a six, lulz will be had.

Tesseract Vault + Benefitted a bit, but ultimately what you really want is...

Transcendant C'tan - Still the best thing since sliced bread for a Necron army, even with the D-weapon nerf it melts entire armies, and it can get enough hits to roll up some sixes here and there. Also with the changes to Open-topped Transports, these become hilarious against mech-orks or Dark Eldar. Get into position and hellstorm their transport's asses. Between the template auto-hits and their vehicles exploding you'll probably kill everyone carried inside and wipe out their transports to boot, essentially all but crippling them. Take a picture of their face after you inform them that they have now lost a massive portion of their army in one go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jasper76 wrote:
I'd LOVE to see the option for an all-Canoptek cron army with no RP. Put that Tomb Stalker beastie in the main codex, and add a non-RP troop choice like Canoptek Automotons or something. Give the Illumniator some rules that buff Canoptek units, similar (but better) to what he does now for Warriors. As it stands now, that dude is one of the biggest wastes of a cool (IMO) sculpt in the codex.

Although they're so looked down upon, I usually had great results from Monoliths in 6th. I made great use of their transport mojo. They only got better with 7th because they're harder to explode, so I'll still be using them in some lists. What kind of changeswould you like to see out of the Flux Arc?

The change to the Flux Arc would be very simple: They can fire at full BS even if the particle whip fires.

I'd perhaps also like to see heat, tesla, and particle weapons also spread in ubiquity. So small heat carbines for Immortals (though that may just turn them into wannabe fire dragons) or particle carbines, maybe Tesla guns for warriors, Heat and Particle guns as alternatives to Gauss or Tesla cannons, Tesla cannons for destroyers, that sort of thing.

More options for units is also always good. I'd like to be able to buy sempiternal weaves for Lychguards, Crypteks, and Praetorians at least, and I wouldn't mind flayed ones made from other Necron Chassis and new kinds of Destroyers.

In addition, I think the melee weapons could be balanced internally a bit better.

Change hyperphase swords into hyperphase power weapons, The Gauntlet of Fail needs a serious boost, and so on.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/28 13:13:12


 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.



 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




 Kain wrote:
Transcendant C'tan - Still the best thing since sliced bread for a Necron army, even with the D-weapon nerf it melts entire armies, and it can get enough hits to roll up some sixes here and there. Also with the changes to Open-topped Transports, these become hilarious against mech-orks or Dark Eldar. Get into position and hellstorm their transport's asses. Between the template auto-hits and their vehicles exploding you'll probably kill everyone carried inside and wipe out their transports to boot, essentially all but crippling them. Take a picture of their face after you inform them that they have now lost a massive portion of their army in one go.


I breathed a bi sigh of relief when the Escalation FAQ didn't have any updates to the Transcendant C'Tan. Bringer of Sad Faces!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kain wrote:
The change to the Flux Arc would be very simple: They can fire at full BS even if the particle whip fires.


OK, I'm sorry. I was confused, and thought you were talking about the Patricle Whip in the first place

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/28 13:15:30


 
   
Made in gb
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





As far as I can tell so far, the big counter to the Daemonfactory (would an Imperial summoner be a Daemonfactorum?) is getting all up in their grill with CC as early as possible. Nemesor Z deepstrike closecombat units in front of all those heralds could do this, and you could then charge in your own turn (after surviving fire). So Zahndrekh to deepstrike Lychguard + Veiltek units? Or maybe even a very big 20 man Flayed One unit, with as many beatstick independent characters joined in as possible to spread out along the board and multi assault all the summoning units at once?

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Temple Prime

God In Action wrote:
As far as I can tell so far, the big counter to the Daemonfactory (would an Imperial summoner be a Daemonfactorum?) is getting all up in their grill with CC as early as possible. Nemesor Z deepstrike closecombat units in front of all those heralds could do this, and you could then charge in your own turn (after surviving fire). So Zahndrekh to deepstrike Lychguard + Veiltek units? Or maybe even a very big 20 man Flayed One unit, with as many beatstick independent characters joined in as possible to spread out along the board and multi assault all the summoning units at once?

The best counter to Daemon factory is the thrown rulebook weapon, much like how it's the perfect counter to munchkinry in D&D.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.



 
   
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Guys, I want things fixed, too, but if you were to implement all of those changes Necrons would be so overwhelmingly powerful it would be like 5th ed. GK had a baby with 6th ed. TauDar.

All I can hope for from the next codex is balance.

Back to the topic at hand,
I wonder how well a full Canoptek unbound army would work?
I've always wanted to run a list of nothing but non-sentient machines from one of those SkyNet tomb worlds.
Wraiths & Acranthites
Spyders & Scarabs
Possibly throw a Sentinel/Stalker in for lols
And at the center of it? The walking embodiment of the Machine Spirit: Void Dragon (Transcendent C'tan)

 
   
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True. Or roll Power 7 on the Sanctic Table- The Housrule of Nerfdom.

Death Korps of Krieg Siege Army 1500 
   
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God In Action wrote:
As far as I can tell so far, the big counter to the Daemonfactory (would an Imperial summoner be a Daemonfactorum?) is getting all up in their grill with CC as early as possible. Nemesor Z deepstrike closecombat units in front of all those heralds could do this, and you could then charge in your own turn (after surviving fire). So Zahndrekh to deepstrike Lychguard + Veiltek units? Or maybe even a very big 20 man Flayed One unit, with as many beatstick independent characters joined in as possible to spread out along the board and multi assault all the summoning units at once?


For this job, I'd be inclined to DS Deatmarks with a Veiltek and Destroyer Lord, probably multiple Deathmark units if there are multiple summoning targets, and wipe out the Heralds upon arrival R2.

For some Zandrekh mojo, I'm not sure if the Lychguard would be better than Wraiths. Wraiths are still more survivable with the 3++ and multiple wounds, much more mobile, and better at CC. Obviously no deflect or RP.

With everything scoring now, I am eager to find a good use for Lychguard sword-n-boards cuz I really like the models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/28 14:16:50


 
   
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The best State-Texas

Kain, for the most part I agree with you, except over a few things:

Adding to this: Tomb Stalkers - The monstrous creature nerfs hurt badly and at 220 points you really want this thing to pull it's own weight.


I'm going to have to Disagree here. I think the changes to MCs actually made the Tomb Stalker better. You don't really need to smash with it, it's best purpose is hunting troops and other backfield holders, so that it benefits from Rampage. Before, you'd have to worry about other MCs giving the Tomb Stalker problems. Now, you actually have an advantage since most will take 5's to wound against it, instead of being able to smash it's 4 wounds away like before.

Acranthites + Essentially unchanged. Still quite good, and with the monstrous creature nerfs they can freely eat a Trygon or a Daemon prince and not give a damn.


I think we are going to see a move toward Vehicles, that will make these guys even better. Right now, I find them to be better than Wraiths, since they deal with Volume of fire much better than Wraiths do, thanks to their Higher T and W value.

Tesseract Ark ++ Improved by the new damage rules, and at AV14 it really doesn't need to jink much anyway. The firepower it puts out remains rather mediocre (especially compared to Leman Russ tanks) but it's a swiss army knife. Though on the other hand, you're probably only going to be using the "totally not a plasma destroyer" as the S5 armourbane line sucks and the Fleshbane AP3 template lacks torrent. Still rather underwhelming but cool.


Well, it can't benefit from Jink because it's heavy. It has a 5++ standard though, so it's not really needed. It's going to be a lot harder to break these suckers now, and the put out a resonable amount of fire. Three plasma blasts at 48' +Two Tesla or Gauss Cannons is not bad. It is expensive though. I do wish the Flamer Had torrent though!

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Temple Prime

 Sasori wrote:
Kain, for the most part I agree with you, except over a few things:

Adding to this: Tomb Stalkers - The monstrous creature nerfs hurt badly and at 220 points you really want this thing to pull it's own weight.


I'm going to have to Disagree here. I think the changes to MCs actually made the Tomb Stalker better. You don't really need to smash with it, it's best purpose is hunting troops and other backfield holders, so that it benefits from Rampage. Before, you'd have to worry about other MCs giving the Tomb Stalker problems. Now, you actually have an advantage since most will take 5's to wound against it, instead of being able to smash it's 4 wounds away like before.

Acranthites + Essentially unchanged. Still quite good, and with the monstrous creature nerfs they can freely eat a Trygon or a Daemon prince and not give a damn.


I think we are going to see a move toward Vehicles, that will make these guys even better. Right now, I find them to be better than Wraiths, since they deal with Volume of fire much better than Wraiths do, thanks to their Higher T and W value.

Tesseract Ark ++ Improved by the new damage rules, and at AV14 it really doesn't need to jink much anyway. The firepower it puts out remains rather mediocre (especially compared to Leman Russ tanks) but it's a swiss army knife. Though on the other hand, you're probably only going to be using the "totally not a plasma destroyer" as the S5 armourbane line sucks and the Fleshbane AP3 template lacks torrent. Still rather underwhelming but cool.


Well, it can't benefit from Jink because it's heavy. It has a 5++ standard though, so it's not really needed. It's going to be a lot harder to break these suckers now, and the put out a resonable amount of fire. Three plasma blasts at 48' +Two Tesla or Gauss Cannons is not bad. It is expensive though. I do wish the Flamer Had torrent though!

The Ark is more a tough bastard to kill than super-duper killy, since it costs more than a Leman Russ for a negligible increase in firepower but a strong increase in durability.

It's just about killy enough to make your enemy want to shoot at it (and thus draw fire from squishier but more dangerous units).

As for the Acranthites: It'd seem that their improvements mostly come from meta-shifts and nerfs to units they once dreaded facing. Right now, Acranthites only fear clawed carnifexes and the swarmlord in the entire Tyranid book for example, and charging the Swarmlord when the easy option is to challenge and MSS him (preferably with a cheap Lord in case he does pass the test) so he instantly kills himself is a silly thing to do. And as long as you charge first, you should be able to kill the Carnifexes before they can start swining back.

The Guard though, is pretty much Codex: Blobs, Psykers, and Leman Russes, and those Leman Russes are just begging to be Acranthite'd to death and unlike a Land Raider; you rarely have to worry about the prize inside.

Stalkers, oh yeah I forgot about Rampage. Potentially 8 attacks on the charge is pretty beefy given their statlines, and they're incredibly fast too.


 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.



 
   
 
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