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As of right now my planned list is:

Deatchment 1:

Overlord, Warscythe, MSS, Weave, Shifter, CCB
Overlord, Warsctyhe, MSS, Weave, Shifter, CCB

3 Storm Teks

5 Warriors Night Scythe, 2x Stormteks

5 Warriors Night Scythe, 1x Stormtek

3x Abarges

Detachment 2
Dlord, MSS, Weave,

5 Warriors Ghost Ark

5 Warriors, Ghost Ark

6 Ancanthrites.

Puts me at 2005 points. I'l let you guys know how it goes!

^
Looks interesting. Would this be unbound or forged? (still haven't got a firm enough grasp on the rules to recognize one from the other yet).
How would you adjust it for tournament play? (1850 battle forged)

It's a Battleforged list, technically, as it uses two legit detachments.

Scaling this down to 1850 is hardly doable, you would have to remove all Stormteks and either cut down the unit of Arcanthrites to 4 or cut down on the OL wargear.

 skoffs wrote:
^
Looks interesting. Would this be unbound or forged? (still haven't got a firm enough grasp on the rules to recognize one from the other yet).
How would you adjust it for tournament play? (1850 battle forged)

My area runs 2k Tournies, so I would just have to loose 5 points.

As for cutting down the list, to 1850, I would cut an Overlord and Stormtek, and Ancanthrite. You can then add 5 Scarabs and 2 Spyders for 1850 on the dot. If you wanted, you could cut one more Ancanthrite and add a 3rd spyder, but I find 4 is probably too low for what you want to start with on the Ancanthrites.

skoffs wrote:
Back to the topic at hand,
I wonder how well a full Canoptek unbound army would work?
I've always wanted to run a list of nothing but non-sentient machines from one of those SkyNet tomb worlds.
Wraiths & Acranthites
Spyders & Scarabs
Possibly throw a Sentinel/Stalker in for lols
And at the center of it? The walking embodiment of the Machine Spirit: Void Dragon (Transcendent C'tan)

I think an all Canoptek list would rock. Being unbound would mean you'd have to deal with enemy troops quickly (if they were battleforged) because otherwise they would trump you on objectives. However, balancing that would be the sheer volume of wraiths, spyders and scarabs running around. I'll have to try it (without the C'tan) and lower points levels (cos I don't have enough models). But at lower points levels this would be even stronger (assuming they didn't bring a flyer).

Sasori wrote:As of right now my planned list is:

Deatchment 1:

Overlord, Warscythe, MSS, Weave, Shifter, CCB
Overlord, Warsctyhe, MSS, Weave, Shifter, CCB

3 Storm Teks

5 Warriors Night Scythe, 2x Stormteks

5 Warriors Night Scythe, 1x Stormtek

3x Abarges

Detachment 2
Dlord, MSS, Weave,

5 Warriors Ghost Ark

5 Warriors, Ghost Ark

6 Ancanthrites.

Puts me at 2005 points. I'l let you guys know how it goes!

You're going to have a tough time finding the 5 points! List looks good though.

I haven't looked at FW rules for Ancanthrites etc - which IA are they in? Is it 12? I'm really thinking about getting it now, because I heard you can take Flayed ones as troops - is that right?

Is a lord on a chariot still able to use mindshackle scarabs against enemy models?

Would a monolith be big enough to sit on top of an objective and not let anyone within 3 inches? Because if it was, that sounds like a great way to score without the threat of superscoring troops stealing it.

omerakk wrote:Is a lord on a chariot still able to use mindshackle scarabs against enemy models?

I'd say so, because the rider and chariot are considered to be one model. You'd have a lot more models to randomise against though given the size of the chariot. Would still work for lone characters or MC though.

Doctarro wrote:Would a monolith be big enough to sit on top of an objective and not let anyone within 3 inches? Because if it was, that sounds like a great way to score without the threat of superscoring troops stealing it.

Haven't got a monolith, but the base would need to be more than 6 inches wide on all sides for that to work.

My mind is slowly coming around to how much better our vehicles are this edition. Specifically the Ghost Ark and the CCB.

Getting a 4++ on both vehicles without really worrying about the consequences and only being destroyed by AP1 or AP2. Huge boost.

Can a monolith shoot its main weapon if it Jinks? if not wouldn't that mean the Monolith got a massive nerf?

Where is Destroyers getting Jink coming from? They're still jump infantry and the rulebook doesn't say jump units get jink. If that was the case Acanthrites would have a 3+ jink save!

On page 87 of the rule book it does state that the attacker decides whether to attack the character or chariot. So even though MC only get one smash attack that still means that if that attack gets the pen it could very easily kill the CB in one attack. Does that mean we can't use the Phase Shifter save that the Overlord has?

 Sushi636 wrote:
On page 87 of the rule book it does state that the attacker decides whether to attack the character or chariot. So even though MC only get one smash attack that still means that if that attack gets the pen it could very easily kill the CB in one attack. Does that mean we can't use the Phase Shifter save that the Overlord has?

Only in CC. Not from shooting.

 Sushi636 wrote:
On page 87 of the rule book it does state that the attacker decides whether to attack the character or chariot. So even though MC only get one smash attack that still means that if that attack gets the pen it could very easily kill the CB in one attack. Does that mean we can't use the Phase Shifter save that the Overlord has?

Does the smash attack hit back armour or front?

It would still need to hit with it's one attack (3+) than pen (2+ on rear armour) than roll a 6 (+1 for AP2) on the chart to explode. And even if it does we now get to re-animate the entire chariot with rider at the end of the CC phase.

Much easier to avoid a MC these days however since FMC's can not charge the turn they change flight modes and most other MC's are only moving 6" per turn.

bodazoka wrote:

 Sushi636 wrote:
On page 87 of the rule book it does state that the attacker decides whether to attack the character or chariot. So even though MC only get one smash attack that still means that if that attack gets the pen it could very easily kill the CB in one attack. Does that mean we can't use the Phase Shifter save that the Overlord has?

Does the smash attack hit back armour or front?

It would still need to hit with it's one attack (3+) than pen (2+ on rear armour) than roll a 6 (+1 for AP2) on the chart to explode. And even if it does we now get to re-animate the entire chariot with rider at the end of the CC phase.

Much easier to avoid a MC these days however since FMC's can not charge the turn they change flight modes and most other MC's are only moving 6" per turn.

Actually it's against front armor and they have to hit using the WS of the rider so unless the MC has a WS of 5 or better they are going to need 4's to hit, 4 to pen and 5+ to wreck it.

bodazoka wrote:

 Sushi636 wrote:
On page 87 of the rule book it does state that the attacker decides whether to attack the character or chariot. So even though MC only get one smash attack that still means that if that attack gets the pen it could very easily kill the CB in one attack. Does that mean we can't use the Phase Shifter save that the Overlord has?

Does the smash attack hit back armour or front?

It would still need to hit with it's one attack (3+) than pen (2+ on rear armour) than roll a 6 (+1 for AP2) on the chart to explode. And even if it does we now get to re-animate the entire chariot with rider at the end of the CC phase.

Much easier to avoid a MC these days however since FMC's can not charge the turn they change flight modes and most other MC's are only moving 6" per turn.

CC is always vs the front armor

Just use the Phase Shifter to give the CCB the 3++

Rider and Chariot are one model.
Phase Shifer grants a 3++ to the model.
So bother the Overlord and the CCB get a 3++

Wait,
If the attacker decides whether they want to attack rider or chariot, how does the CCB get to benefit from the 3++ if they choose not to attack the Overlord?
(and is that "attacker decides" thing for both shooting and CC or just CC?)

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
Where is Destroyers getting Jink coming from? They're still jump infantry and the rulebook doesn't say jump units get jink. If that was the case Acanthrites would have a 3+ jink save!

Interested in this, myself.
Anyone care to weigh in?

bodazoka wrote:
Can a monolith shoot its main weapon if it Jinks? if not wouldn't that mean the Monolith got a massive nerf.

I thought Monoliths couldn't jink (because heavy)

Yeah, Heavy vehicles can't jink.

 Sushi636 wrote:

bodazoka wrote:

 Sushi636 wrote:
On page 87 of the rule book it does state that the attacker decides whether to attack the character or chariot. So even though MC only get one smash attack that still means that if that attack gets the pen it could very easily kill the CB in one attack. Does that mean we can't use the Phase Shifter save that the Overlord has?

Does the smash attack hit back armour or front?

It would still need to hit with it's one attack (3+) than pen (2+ on rear armour) than roll a 6 (+1 for AP2) on the chart to explode. And even if it does we now get to re-animate the entire chariot with rider at the end of the CC phase.

Much easier to avoid a MC these days however since FMC's can not charge the turn they change flight modes and most other MC's are only moving 6" per turn.

Actually it's against front armor and they have to hit using the WS of the rider so unless the MC has a WS of 5 or better they are going to need 4's to hit, 4 to pen and 5+ to wreck it.

This is if they pass their MSS test, as well!


On that note, I had my first game, against a standard 5th edition Tau List.

Buffmander sitting with three HYMP broadsides, with the trmmings

3x riptides with IA, and Interceptor

4sets of Firewarriors

3 groups of PF

3x more broadsides with the trimmings

I don't remember all the upgrades and the exact numbers, sot his may be off a bit.

Anyway, the CCB... Rocked. I got first turn, so Sped one toward the Buffmanders unit, and another toward the other set of Broadsides. Since I was so meched up, they were really the only threat to my entire army. He poured missileside fire into my CCBs, but they just plinked off my Weave for the most part. I was in combat with both units turn two, and it was just a slaughter from there. Without the missilesides, He really coulden't do much to to rest of my army, and it was cleanup from there.

The Haywire guys didn't do anything this game, but there were no vehicles. They are there for Land Raiders and what not.

Dlord and Ancanthries cleaned house. They took a lot of fire, but between stealth, 2+ on the Dlord and having 3W they were hard to take down.

Ghost Arks just speed around, until they could lay their fulisides into the tau line.

Abarges did their grisly work as usual.

It was a slaughter. Granted, This was a Tau 6th edition list, so I'm sure things will get changed up as we move a long. As of right now, They really don't have a way to deal with the CCB Overlord. You can throw anything that's AP 3 or higher on the Weave Lord, and Anything like melta you can throw on him as well.

The only army I'm really sweating at this point, is Wraithknight Eldar. We still don't have a really good way to deal with multiple Wraithknights.

Do templates work against Wraithknights?
If you throw 2-3 Despair-teks in with Deathmark units, would they stand a fair chance of putting some wounds on those things?

Also, would it be possible to combine 2 Storm-teks with a Veil-tek instead of your current configuration?
(so you can guarantee first blood if you go first and they have a vehicle)

This is mostly silliness, but Sasori mentioning a need for a good solution to Wraithknights got me thinking of the old 5th edition era Royal Court "dev" squads, with a 7th edition twist:

Detachment 1:

90 OLord
90 OLord
200 4 x Lancetek +1 Pulse + 1 Chronotek
200 4 x Lancetek +1 Pulse + 1 Chronotek

65 Warriors
65 Warriors

115 Ghost Arc
115 Ghost Arc

Detachment 2: (Same as Detachment one)

90 OLord
90 OLord
200 4 x Lancetek +1 Pulse + 1 Chronotek
200 4 x Lancetek +1 Pulse + 1 Chronotek

65 Warriors
65 Warriors

115 Ghost Arc
115 Ghost Arc

So that clocks in around 1880, so you have some points to spare to flavor up to 2k (4 Tachyon Arrows?), and aren't far from 1850, (drop one lancetek?)

That gives you 4 pretty salty dev squads riding around in AV 13 Open Topped 4+ cover save jinking skimmers (4 Solar Pulses should keep things sufficiently dark). Too bad we couldn't rock this with the old Night Fighting, would be positively sick.

Not nearly enough anti-infantry probably, which is why is more if an intellectual musing. But, kinda purdy looking on paper.

Just as you said: a single blob of infantry would be immortal vs that list :(

Sasori, you really have me excited! I may be dropping the Night Scythes in my main list for another GA.

I'm looking at the world of double/Triple Wraithknight and the only way out that I see is Transcendent C'Tan (which is why I'm building one). Which will only encourage them to play their Titan (and we don't win that one either).

Sasori, how did the barges do in the combats? Are there any units you wouldn't charge with them?

MarkCron wrote:
Sasori, how did the barges do in the combats? Are there any units you wouldn't charge with them?

Well, since by Raw the Phase Shifter grants the barge a 3++...

I would avoid anything that excels in close combat either vs the Chariot or the Overlord. Wraithknights come to mind for example. They can wreck both of them pretty easy.

Most MCs you should be ok. They have to etiher choose to make a single Smash attack against the Chariot, or Make it's regular attacks against the overlord. Between MSS, AV 13, and a 3++ Most MCs are not going to be doing that well....

Thanks Sasori. In CC, does the phase shifter benefit transfer to the barge? In CC the attacker can direct its attacks only to the CCB - so one argument is that phase shifter doesn't kick in. This would be consistent with the treatment of the wound pool in shooting (separating wounds between the rider and the CCB). Other argument is that it is one model, hence 3++ kicks in - this is also consistent with the wording re CCB being always attacked on front armour ("the rider can defend it").


Thought I'd share a list I used last weekend for a couple of maelstrom games against a CSM SM army.




And, inspired by Skoffs Canoptek army, but working with my models only, my canoptek unbound list for a couple of games this weekend.


edit: to add the lists.

MarkCron wrote:
Thanks Sasori. In CC, does the phase shifter benefit transfer to the barge? In CC the attacker can direct its attacks only to the CCB - so one argument is that phase shifter doesn't kick in. This would be consistent with the treatment of the wound pool in shooting (separating wounds between the rider and the CCB). Other argument is that it is one model, hence 3++ kicks in - this is also consistent with the wording re CCB being always attacked on front armour ("the rider can defend it").

RAWise, right now, since it's considered one model, the CCB benefits from the 3++ no matter what. I didn't need to use that last game though, but I may in future games.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/597565.page Here is the YMDC on it.

Well, its nice to see that it looks like both on paper and in practice, we have another beastly CC option.

There has been much conversation about Warlord Traits that came with the new edition, how they improved a bit. Id like to hear what do you think about them in point of view of crons?

I see much potential in these new tables for some fun combos. I know they are really random but for example, CCB OL with 3+ inv, FNP buffed by tenacity from personal traits and 4+ RP can be pretty nasty. Or if so, it will not die... that's... yeah... I like it!

I don't have the book yet. Can someone look into the deep striking of skimmers. Do Monoliths have deep strike protection in 7th?

The jink save snap shots kind of bums me out, as I liked to roll around filled ghost arks up in rapid fire range.

What really spooks me now is "no escape" If you hit an open topped vehicle with a template weapon, that is D6 hits on the unit inside. While the heldrake has gone back to its original form (woo, no longer feel guilty about bringing mine! seriously only used it twice and I got it when it came out) This is good news for my other armies, but bad news for necrons. a heavy flamer now poses a bit of a thread. Though the Ghost ark self repair should help with that a lot.