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Necrons do not have Psykers, but despite them having no psychic defense (which is another really stupid plot hole), they still got a good thing out of 7th as Psykers in general got nerfed.

 jy2 wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Which is why allowing the barge lord to join wraiths is more than fair, since wave serpent space is so powerful.

"My 1-kiloton hydrogen bomb isn't as powerful as that dude's 1-megaton nuclear bomb," says 1 soldier to another.

To which the other soldier responds, " And you don't see why all those guys with just hand grenades are looking at you kinda funny."

A Bargelord joining a unit of wraiths is not OP at all. Just test it out. Reduced mobility for the Bargelord, no LOS from the wraiths, and no other ICs able to join that unit make a Bargelord joined to a unit of wraiths (~ 500 points) hardly something that will do anything remotely OP.

So yeah, I am yet again taking you to task on this. Show me how a Bargelord joined to a unit of wraiths is OP.

 jy2 wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Which is why allowing the barge lord to join wraiths is more than fair, since wave serpent space is so powerful.

"My 1-kiloton hydrogen bomb isn't as powerful as that dude's 1-megaton nuclear bomb," says 1 soldier to another.

To which the other soldier responds, " And you don't see why all those guys with just hand grenades are looking at you kinda funny."

[Nitpick] Hydrogen bombs are nuclear bombs that work via nuclear fusion rather than fission, and are generally orders of magnitude more powerful than fission bombs so I doubt a 1 kiloton hydrogen bomb exists (too low a yield for a device that requires the simultaneous detonation of several fission bombs to set off) [/Nitpick]

Otherwise a good analogy.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Necrons do not have Psykers, but despite them having no psychic defense (which is another really stupid plot hole), they still got a good thing out of 7th as Psykers in general got nerfed.

Apparently my sarcasm was lost on you.

What was your point then?

Just finished another report, this time against the Seer Council Deldar.


1850 7E BAO Practice - Jy2's Necrons vs Brothererekose's Seer Council Deldar


BTW, in the game I ran 2 bargelords and 2x5 wraiths. However, I played the bargelords as not being able to join another unit.

That Necrons have no access to powerful psychic abilities or D weapons when tournaments ban Escalation. While powerful Titans, and psychic abilities with D strength are allowed but Necrons have no access to them. When the rules support us getting something uber-powerful like the CCB tournaments change the rules and take that from us too.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
That Necrons have no access to powerful psychic abilities

Thus my previous post.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
I ran it at a tournament and played conservatively. Didn't bring a squad for it to join and only rolled the 3++ when allocating to The Lord, it it was a monster. The d6 HoW is amazing since. It's only real weakness is being tarpited, and blast weapons that easily pierce the Ar11(13) since blasts auto go to the hull, you can't opt to roll on the lords 3++ save.

Could you point me to where it says that blasts have to be taken on the vehicle (or chariot) and cannot be taken by a chariot rider? I wasn't aware of this.

under chariots for allocating shooting, it says blasts and templates must be taken on the chariot.

Removed and pasted into Pylon Star thread.

You guys should probably take all this Pylon talk to the Pylon thread. I really don't care about Pylons. Pylons.

7th Ed: Stormteks for sure.

Do Tomb blades have more of a place? What with mobility being so important. And then being so cheap to get one or two of.

Kholzerino wrote:
7th Ed: Stormteks for sure.

Do Tomb blades have more of a place? What with mobility being so important. And then being so cheap to get one or two of.

For Maelstrom missions, 20pts for a single jet bike that can grab an objective just about anywhere on the board is amazing. I don't play with wraiths so the loss of the FA slots is no big deal. I generally take 1-2 tomb blades and they earn their points in objectives every game. The only weakness is that you can potentially give up first blood if you're not careful with them in deployment. Try to get first blood as soon as you can so you can bring them out of hiding for objectives.

That's why it tends to be better to take at least three Tomb Blades.
Yeah, 20 points is better than 60, but at least a single lucky shot isn't going to ruin their day.

col_impact wrote:
A Bargelord joining a unit of wraiths is not OP at all. Just test it out. Reduced mobility for the Bargelord, no LOS from the wraiths, and no other ICs able to join that unit make a Bargelord joined to a unit of wraiths (~ 500 points) hardly something that will do anything remotely OP.

So yeah, I am yet again taking you to task on this. Show me how a Bargelord joined to a unit of wraiths is OP.

The fact that the Wraith's can completely ignore all Str6 and below shooting incoming at them before they contact the enemy?

When you watch a battle report with Wraiths and the DL tanking 2+ saves you see allot of them being slaughtered before they reach enemy lines and they STILL wreck face. Now imagine them being completely un hurt getting there at full strength!

If I was worried about it surviving, I wouldn't take it at all. If someone wants to waste an entire unit of shooting at 20pts of models, go for it. The only risk is losing a VP to a mission objective. Chances are the unit that is shooting at the 20pt model could do a lot more damage in points if they shot at my OS units instead

bodazoka wrote:

col_impact wrote:
A Bargelord joining a unit of wraiths is not OP at all. Just test it out. Reduced mobility for the Bargelord, no LOS from the wraiths, and no other ICs able to join that unit make a Bargelord joined to a unit of wraiths (~ 500 points) hardly something that will do anything remotely OP.

So yeah, I am yet again taking you to task on this. Show me how a Bargelord joined to a unit of wraiths is OP.

The fact that the Wraith's can completely ignore all Str6 and below shooting incoming at them before they contact the enemy?

When you watch a battle report with Wraiths and the DL tanking 2+ saves you see allot of them being slaughtered before they reach enemy lines and they STILL wreck face. Now imagine them being completely un hurt getting there at full strength!

What you are saying is all just theory crafting. Actually test it out and you will see that the Bargelord is giving up some definite survivability and tactical potential by babysitting wraiths and reducing its mobility. The wraiths do enjoy a forward facing shield from small arms fire, but mobile opponents simply reposition to put the Wraiths in front of their small arms. The loss of mobility means the Bargelord has to eat 1-2 more turns of Anti-tank fire before reaching its target and allow its target 1-2 turns to do things. Since the wraiths can't provide LOS, the Bargelord loses out in the joining.

@col_impact

May I ask, why can't a bargelord LOS hits allocated to him (and not the barge) onto a unit that he has joined?

 jy2 wrote:
@col_impact

May I ask, why can't a bargelord LOS hits allocated to him (and not the barge) onto a unit that he has joined?

Though I am not him, my understanding was that you could not LOS for a vehicle. Perhaps this is simply because there were no IC vehicles previously, but if this is actually true, then it doesn't matter that the Lord is able to be LOS'd for because the vehicle cannot be LOS'd and he and the vehicle are one - similar to the argument for why he can join a unit but with the reverse logic.

col_impact wrote:

bodazoka wrote:

col_impact wrote:
A Bargelord joining a unit of wraiths is not OP at all. Just test it out. Reduced mobility for the Bargelord, no LOS from the wraiths, and no other ICs able to join that unit make a Bargelord joined to a unit of wraiths (~ 500 points) hardly something that will do anything remotely OP.

So yeah, I am yet again taking you to task on this. Show me how a Bargelord joined to a unit of wraiths is OP.

The fact that the Wraith's can completely ignore all Str6 and below shooting incoming at them before they contact the enemy?

When you watch a battle report with Wraiths and the DL tanking 2+ saves you see allot of them being slaughtered before they reach enemy lines and they STILL wreck face. Now imagine them being completely un hurt getting there at full strength!

What you are saying is all just theory crafting. Actually test it out and you will see that the Bargelord is giving up some definite survivability and tactical potential by babysitting wraiths and reducing its mobility. The wraiths do enjoy a forward facing shield from small arms fire, but mobile opponents simply reposition to put the Wraiths in front of their small arms. The loss of mobility means the Bargelord has to eat 1-2 more turns of Anti-tank fire before reaching its target and allow its target 1-2 turns to do things. Since the wraiths can't provide LOS, the Bargelord loses out in the joining.

He still moves 12" and as JY2 mentioned above all the things that can blow the barge up you just LOS onto the 2 wound 3++ wraiths! Not to mention you wont have to worry about AV11 rear any more as the wraiths are there! Whilst not impossible it is very hard to move enough fire power around the side of the barge to attack the wraiths, barges are big models. You will very reliably be in your opponents lines turn 2 with a now detached barge that can tear it up and a full squad of wraiths!

Seriously dude I don't know how you cant see the combo being OP? You are shielded completely from S6 fire, S7 is glancing you on 6's AND anything that might blow up the barge gets LOS to an invun save wraith! The unit is almost invincible, destroys everything in CC AND you can take 2 of them!

The Bargelord moves +18" when moving flat out. Wraiths don't move flat out.

The Bargelord cannot use look out sir . . .



So yeah the Bargelord takes a hit in survivability by babysitting wraiths. Slowed down, he takes more rounds of anti-tank fire and the opponent has the opportunity to select which unit to bring into CC with him. Wraith speed is much easier for the opponent to tactically handle than fast skimmer speed.

Were saying that he is a vehicle character so can't LOS but can join another unit even though we are classing him as a vehicle? is this correct or am in missing something? Even if I can not LOS the wounds I can still allocate the high strength hits to my invuln save / 2+ save lord OR jink them on the barge OR just take it and IF it blows me up I still get a 4+ roll to get back up.

Also I give up 6" of movement to make sure my wraiths get into combat un molested? I would take that every single time.

bodazoka wrote:
Were saying that he is a vehicle character so can't LOS but can join another unit even though we are classing him as a vehicle? is this correct or am in missing something? Even if I can not LOS the wounds I can still allocate the high strength hits to my invuln save / 2+ save lord OR jink them on the barge OR just take it and IF it blows me up I still get a 4+ roll to get back up.

Also I give up 6" of movement to make sure my wraiths get into combat un molested? I would take that every single time.

It's more like you are giving up 15" of movement. That's uh . . . a lot.

bodazoka wrote:
Were saying that he is a vehicle character so can't LOS but can join another unit even though we are classing him as a vehicle? is this correct or am in missing something? Even if I can not LOS the wounds I can still allocate the high strength hits to my invuln save / 2+ save lord OR jink them on the barge OR just take it and IF it blows me up I still get a 4+ roll to get back up.

Vehicles are not disallowed to join other units, they just don't have permission to.

 Sigvatr wrote:


Vehicles are not disallowed to join other units, they just don't have permission to.

Neither do infantry. It's being an independent character that allows you to join.

Eh...yes...and that wasn't in question...

bodazoka wrote:
Were saying that he is a vehicle character so can't LOS but can join another unit even though we are classing him as a vehicle? is this correct or am in missing something? Even if I can not LOS the wounds I can still allocate the high strength hits to my invuln save / 2+ save lord OR jink them on the barge OR just take it and IF it blows me up I still get a 4+ roll to get back up.

Ugh, the rules for this thing are an utter train wreck.
How soon, realistically, can we expect to get the next FAQ update?
(and does anyone have the email address to submit rules questions to GW? Not that I assume they'd answer, but if certain questions are asked frequently enough...)

This bargelord argument reminds me of the scarab argument when our codex first came out.

To remind you, people were arguing that entropic strike only functioned on glancing or penetrating hits against vehicles (good luck with scarabs only being strength 3). They did this, not because of an ambiguity in the rules, but instead out of fear of what a 10 base scarab unit can do to a landraider in the vehicle-heavy 5th edition.

 skoffs wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
Were saying that he is a vehicle character so can't LOS but can join another unit even though we are classing him as a vehicle? is this correct or am in missing something? Even if I can not LOS the wounds I can still allocate the high strength hits to my invuln save / 2+ save lord OR jink them on the barge OR just take it and IF it blows me up I still get a 4+ roll to get back up.

Ugh, the rules for this thing are an utter train wreck.
How soon, realistically, can we expect to get the next FAQ update?
(and does anyone have the email address to submit rules questions to GW? Not that I assume they'd answer, but if certain questions are asked frequently enough...)

Gamefaqs@gwplc.com