Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

That would depend on what your opponent fields:
MC's: Death Marks.
Marines: Destroyers.
Nothing: Monolith. Because it will misshap if the opponent plays stuff.

Ooh, even though it was Apocalypse I found something where Lychguard really shine: Assaulting multiple Vehicles at the same time!
Is anyone interested in a short description of how most units worked out over those two days?

Death and Despair squad

 Sigvatr wrote:
Death and Despair squad

Yes, but a D&D squad is over 200 points if you stick it in a Night Scythe (like every good 'Cron player should).

Kangodo wrote:
That would depend on what your opponent fields:
MC's: Death Marks.
Marines: Destroyers.
Nothing: Monolith. Because it will misshap if the opponent plays stuff.

Ooh, even though it was Apocalypse I found something where Lychguard really shine: Assaulting multiple Vehicles at the same time!
Is anyone interested in a short description of how most units worked out over those two days?

Yes please.

 skoffs wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Death and Despair squad

Yes, but a D&D squad is over 200 points if you stick it in a Night Scythe (like every good 'Cron player should).

VoD o/

Hey fellow Phaerons. Having a big game against my 40k Nemesis. I have actually never beaten him (after over ten games) and we are going to play a huge game (5,000pts) at Warhammer World on one of the special tables. Should be great fun, but I would LOVE to finally beat him.

Here is my list:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/613973.page#7181364

Using Immo for Phaeron on the PylonStar and the Lightning feels worth it at this pints level (he's going to bring at least 10 tactical squads / grey hunter units). And Zandrekh for deep striking the wraiths whenhe pods in. The callidus is to reroll my seize on 4+ with Immo and for buffs/debuffs. I suspect I probably need more troops and to lose some HQ or specialised unit.

He's going to bring melta in pods, a Legion Fellblade (probably on a skyshield) , probably a unit of grav centurions in a drop pod with a Psycher maybe, and some kind of close combat deathstar thing that he won't tell me about yet. The table is going to be loads of multi level ruins.

Help me pull this one off for the silver tide.

Kholzerino wrote:
Hey fellow Phaerons. Having a big game against my 40k Nemesis. I have actually never beaten him (after over ten games) and we are going to play a huge game (5,000pts) at Warhammer World on one of the special tables. Should be great fun, but I would LOVE to finally beat him.

Here is my list:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/613973.page#7181364

Using Immo for Phaeron on the PylonStar and the Lightning feels worth it at this pints level (he's going to bring at least 10 tactical squads / grey hunter units). And Zandrekh for deep striking the wraiths whenhe pods in. The callidus is to reroll my seize on 4+ with Immo and for buffs/debuffs. I suspect I probably need more troops and to lose some HQ or specialised unit.

He's going to bring melta in pods, a Legion Fellblade (probably on a skyshield) , probably a unit of grav centurions in a drop pod with a Psycher maybe, and some kind of close combat deathstar thing that he won't tell me about yet. The table is going to be loads of multi level ruins.

Help me pull this one off for the silver tide.

Pair a chronotek with Immo to keep the lightning strikes going. Keep in mind Callidus is hit by Immo as well. With nightfighting you probably want a ton of skimmers that can jink and get the 3+ save and tons of stuff to take full advantage of the 3+ in the ruins.

Zandrekh is a bit of a liability in PylonStar. If he is assaulted that removes Obyron from the Star to join Zandrekh. He might still be worth it but just watch out for that vulnerability.

You might consider starting the PylonStar in reserves so you aren't the perfect target for Drop Pod assault. You want the Pylon Star to make its points the turn it comes down.

An ADL with a comms for re-rollable reserves is a cheap include that goes up in value the more stuff that is in reserves.

Watch out if he includes any orks (and that meganob formation is really really good) then it shuts off Immo's seize the initiative.

col_impact wrote:
Pair a chronotek with Immo to keep the lightning strikes going

A Chrono-tek won't be able to join the Sentry Pylons, so if he's planning on having Imotekh as the Phaeron for the deathstar, that won't work.

Zandrekh is a bit of a liability in PylonStar. If he is assaulted that removes Obyron from the Star to join Zandrekh. He might still be worth it but just watch out for that vulnerability.

Just stick Zahndrekh in something that can't be assaulted, maybe?

You might consider starting the PylonStar in reserves so you aren't the perfect target for Drop Pod assault. You want the Pylon Star to make its points the turn it comes down.

But you really want to get the Alpha Strike on your opponent with this thing, so it tends to be better to start it on the table so Obyron can get them where they need to go if you get first turn (assuming you can seize).

Watch out if he includes any orks (and that meganob formation is really really good) then it shuts off Immo's seize the initiative.

Can't remember, is that for any force that includes Orks, or just for armies whose primary are Orks?

 skoffs wrote:

col_impact wrote:
You might consider starting the PylonStar in reserves so you aren't the perfect target for Drop Pod assault. You want the Pylon Star to make its points the turn it comes down.

But you really want to get the Alpha Strike on your opponent with this thing, so it tends to be better to start it on the table so Obyron can get them where they need to go if you get first turn (assuming you can seize).

If I was the opponent, I would reserve everything and use drop pod assault. Makes going first a whole lot less potent for the Necron player and insures you get first crack at stuff.

Fair enough
Rule of thumb for Sentry-Star: if they reserve, you reserve. If they deploy, you deploy.
(if possible, obviously)

Kholzerino wrote:
Yes please.

Well, I played with Necrons and Black Templars against Tau, Eldar, Grey Knights and Imperial Guard.
The list was this:


Some really interesting things happened.
The Deep Strike Strategic Asset is really good, perhaps even overpowered.
It allowed me to Deep Strike two Monoliths, 10 Death Marks, the Court of the Flayer King (20 Flayed Ones) and teleport Obyron to the front.
And that in the middle of way too many Eldar, Tau and Astra Militarium (3 SHV's).

That meant I could also use the Monolith's gate to get my Transcendent C'tan in their base, where it used his flamer to wreck tanks and his 6D6 (with Zhandrekh's Tank Hunter) to nearly kill of a Shadowsword.
Next turn they managed to kill it with Eldar Guardians (or something) that wound on a 6. But I forgot to use Feel No Pain on my C'tan.
Not that it really mattered, because he exploded 17" in all directions which really, really hurt their armies a lot.

The awesome stuff:

The bad:

 skoffs wrote:
Fair enough
Rule of thumb for Sentry-Star: if they reserve, you reserve. If they deploy, you deploy.
(if possible, obviously)

The game is probably going to be won or lost in deployment. The key is to set up an alpha strike that eliminates the enemy LoW or DeathStar and ride the point differential to the win from there.

Drop pods are brutally good at setting up an alpha strike. However, Zandrekh with phased reinforcements can be used to great effect to keep up with the drop pods and counter deploy for early survival. You probably want to bring the Tranny Ctan into play from reserves on the opponents turn after all drop pod deployment has been revealed via Dimensional Corridor a la Necron Monolith (that you phased reinforcement into play) to ensure he can survive a turn to bring the pain and earn his points early. He will be target #1 and he is very vulnerable to a centurion strike so you want his one to two turns in play to be super juicy.

Grav guns are great vs LoW and Necrons in general so expect a good opponent to bring those against you. Scarabs are really survivable vs grav guns so you want to force scarabs into CC vs grav gun units.

A key thing to keep in mind is that Zandrekh can have his phased reinforcement ability trigger at the very end of all of the opponent's drop pods resolving and you can bring in any number of deep strike units in response. So if the opponent deploys nothing at game start you will probably rely on a minimal deployment with Zandrekh hidden out of LOS and respond reactively to how the opponent commits with his Drop Pod Assault, but it is key that you get to respond at the very end of his drop pod assault. Also Necron Monoliths are key to "cheat" units into play via phased reinforcements and Dimensional Corridor (which triggers on opponent turn) that don't intrinsically have deep strike (like Tranny) and Monoliths are good for blocking LOS which is key for early survival vs opposing LoW.

So I think Kholzerino is going to have to really study deployment and turn one and analyze his options so that he comes out ahead in the super important early punch. He should probably adjust his list to include at least a couple of Necron Monoliths since at this point level they have their critical uses.

Requizen wrote:

I've never used a Tesseract Labyrinth before, but it makes sense to bring now. Why? Challenges changed. No longer is your Overlord only in base contact with the character you challenge, so good luck getting off MSS for the guaranteed win. But the Labyrinth specifically states to choose a Character/MC/FMC in base contact, so you can snipe things out with it.

Against MCs, who are pretty decent at killing the CCB, take off a couple wounds with Sweep attacks + HoW and then Labyrinth what's left. Or take off wounds in the first turn of combat, and then if you survive until the next turn, Labyrinth and remove it. If you bring the MC to 3 wounds, it has an as good or better chance of dying to this than to MSS + your attacks.

That's some serious cheese there, thanks GW for going crazy on the chariot rules (chariot allocate, d6 HoW, I10 HoW).
But what are the chances that the WK would let itself be caught ?
You've mostly created a situation where the opposing player will try to avoid the bargelord.
Or just melta it down I guess.
Or take the charge to your overlord, who will have to tank the wounds because the barge can't, AND BOOM HEADSHOT ! Instant death explodes you die goddamn necron I hate you !

Still a bit risky to get in there with a WK, since invisibility can't help. WTF necrons. you broke the game again.

col_impact wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Fair enough
Rule of thumb for Sentry-Star: if they reserve, you reserve. If they deploy, you deploy.
(if possible, obviously)

The game is probably going to be won or lost in deployment. The key is to set up an alpha strike that eliminates the enemy LoW or DeathStar and ride the point differential to the win from there.

Drop pods are brutally good at setting up an alpha strike. However, Zandrekh with phased reinforcements can be used to great effect to keep up with the drop pods and counter deploy for early survival. You probably want to bring the Tranny Ctan into play from reserves on the opponents turn after all drop pod deployment has been revealed via Dimensional Corridor a la Necron Monolith (that you phased reinforcement into play) to ensure he can survive a turn to bring the pain and earn his points early. He will be target #1 and he is very vulnerable to a centurion strike so you want his one to two turns in play to be super juicy.

Grav guns are great vs LoW and Necrons in general so expect a good opponent to bring those against you. Scarabs are really survivable vs grav guns so you want to force scarabs into CC vs grav gun units.

A key thing to keep in mind is that Zandrekh can have his phased reinforcement ability trigger at the very end of all of the opponent's drop pods resolving and you can bring in any number of deep strike units in response. So if the opponent deploys nothing at game start you will probably rely on a minimal deployment with Zandrekh hidden out of LOS and respond reactively to how the opponent commits with his Drop Pod Assault, but it is key that you get to respond at the very end of his drop pod assault. Also Necron Monoliths are key to "cheat" units into play via phased reinforcements and Dimensional Corridor (which triggers on opponent turn) that don't intrinsically have deep strike (like Tranny) and Monoliths are good for blocking LOS which is key for early survival vs opposing LoW.

So I think Kholzerino is going to have to really study deployment and turn one and analyze his options so that he comes out ahead in the super important early punch. He should probably adjust his list to include at least a couple of Necron Monoliths since at this point level they have their critical uses.

This is really useful. As is all the other advice. Don't currently have a monolith! But I might borrow one for this game. You are saying that during the phased reinforcements section, I can both deep strike the monolith (I get it) AND drag in the tranny C'Tanny from reserve with it?!?! How does this work?

Think you are dead right on deployment. Games are usually own or lost there, but doubly so here

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/Warhammer-40k/7th-faq/Necrons_v1.0_May14.pdf

"Note that a Monolith can use its dimensional corridor on a turn that it deploys by Deep Strike."
And the dimensional corridor can 'disembark' units out of Reserve.
Remember that he cannot make a charge the turn you walk him out of that portal!

I'm not sure if he can move or use his Transliminal Stride if he comes out of the Monolith.
But I think that Seismic Shockwave is his best ability since you can Stomp models that are not in combat.

But if I bring him in using phased reinforcements he is coming in on the opponents turn, so should be able to move and/or attack the following (my) turn.

This is great. I have now bought a monolith....

I don't think they intent to let the C'tan come out during your opponent's turn.
The move is still treated as disembarking, which can only be done in your own turn.

Kangodo wrote:
I don't think they intent to let the C'tan come out during your opponent's turn.
The move is still treated as disembarking, which can only be done in your own turn.

Zandrekh starts the chain of permission going with the deep strike happening in the opponent's movement phase. Everything from there is triggered and is legit if happening in a movement phase. The Tranny only gets the disembark move that keeps him 6" from the dimensional corridor.

Need some genral thoughts on running spiders and scarabs, I'm thinking of adding one spyder into my heavy slot alongside my two Annilhation Barges, for repairs and producing scoring units.

Is it worth buying Scarabs on their own or should I just rely on production? And does anyone have the maths for how many bases on average I could get through in a game?

If your spyder doesn't get killed you'll generally produce 5 scarabs a game, since it's only a 1/6 chance you'll fail to produce. However a spyder costs 50pts and you have to spend at least 4 turns just to make back that cost in scarabs. The power is in bringing scarabs beyond their max strength of 10 bases and that ability also allows you to put one base 2" ahead of the rest of the unit to increase your charge range each time one is created. The Spyder effectively only works as a support model for the scarabs or an additional scoring unit now thanks to 7th.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
If your spyder doesn't get killed you'll generally produce 5 scarabs a game, since it's only a 1/6 chance you'll fail to produce. However a spyder costs 50pts and you have to spend at least 4 turns just to make back that cost in scarabs. The power is in bringing scarabs beyond their max strength of 10 bases and that ability also allows you to put one base 2" ahead of the rest of the unit to increase your charge range each time one is created. The Spyder effectively only works as a support model for the scarabs or an additional scoring unit now thanks to 7th.

Spyders never fail to create, even if they take a wound they still place the base.

Eldercaveman wrote:
Need some genral thoughts on running spiders and scarabs, I'm thinking of adding one spyder into my heavy slot alongside my two Annilhation Barges, for repairs and producing scoring units.

Is it worth buying Scarabs on their own or should I just rely on production? And does anyone have the maths for how many bases on average I could get through in a game?

Spyders can only add to existing units. I usually run 2 spyders with 5 or 6 bases of scarabs. Keep them hidden for a turn or two and then unleash the fury. lol

Requizen wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
If your spyder doesn't get killed you'll generally produce 5 scarabs a game, since it's only a 1/6 chance you'll fail to produce. However a spyder costs 50pts and you have to spend at least 4 turns just to make back that cost in scarabs. The power is in bringing scarabs beyond their max strength of 10 bases and that ability also allows you to put one base 2" ahead of the rest of the unit to increase your charge range each time one is created. The Spyder effectively only works as a support model for the scarabs or an additional scoring unit now thanks to 7th.

Spyders never fail to create, even if they take a wound they still place the base.

Good to know, I thought you lost the scarab with the one. Only recent started running one regularly in my army. So the odds of producing scarabs are 100%, it's just a matter of keeping your Spyders alive and in range to add to an existing swarm.

Possible newbie here with a question about the basics: Are Warriors better than Immortals or vice versa, if one isn't going for Nightscythe spam? I might be looking at a Necron force but I'm not sure what to really look at getting to start, and going heavy Cron-air won't make friends or make the wallet happy.

This might be the most boring answer ever, but it really depends on the list you want to play.
In a 'silver tide' I think it's a good idea to mix them up.
In some other lists I want to spend as little as possible on troops, so I'd take Warriors.
And I've also made lists where I prefer Immortals.

My opinion is that Immortals are slightly overpriced for what they do and I usually only bring them if I want troops with Tesla.

I run exclusively Warriors, and have found that when in units of ten with a ResOrb lord, they give impressive bang:buck ratio and can be a rather large pain to get rid of

The tactic is more evil to run two such units on foot, and two such units in flyers, and play a hammer and anvil tactic with a portion of the enemy army

 IHateNids wrote:
I run exclusively Warriors, and have found that when in units of ten with a ResOrb lord, they give impressive bang:buck ratio and can be a rather large pain to get rid of

The tactic is more evil to run two such units on foot, and two such units in flyers, and play a hammer and anvil tactic with a portion of the enemy army

Taking 5 extra warriors instead is objectively much better then taking a Lord w/ Rez Orb by a huge margin. Its literally a 50% increase in damage and survivability as apposed to just increasing reanimation protocol by 16% and a very negligible damage boost.

I think someone ran the numbers on that.
It was something like ResOrbs are only worth taking for units of Warriors 15+. For anything less, it's normally better just to add more Warriors.

The 'numbers' are quite easy.
It's a 30 point upgrade for 16% more durability.
16% of 15 Warriors is slightly above 30 points, so it's worth it.

There are a lot of other factors, but that is a general rule of thumb if you plan to include a Lord anyway.

So i've been thinking of a tactic i like to call sliding door and wanna know what you guys think, i'm sure someone has thought about this tac before

warriorsx9
ghost ark (this group has zhandrek or w/e)

warriorx10
Ghost ark

warriorsx20 (overlord w/res orb optional but not needed)
Ghost ark


What you do is have the unit of 20 warriors boxed on either side with the two ghost arks with warriors in them and have their ghost ark near their front during the movement phase and then "slide" over in front of the 20warriors during the shooting phase but after the 20 warriors have shot to give them a cover save. With zhandrek you can give the warriors stealth if you think they will be shot at or one of the GA to improve their jink. You don't really care to much about blast on the squad either since you will be returning 3-9 a turn from repairs.

may not be the best strat or cheapest but thought it could be something new to try in my next friendly game.