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 adamsouza wrote:
Is there any rule preventing scarabs from entering and using a wall of martyrs bunker ?

Spoiler:

10 scarabs inside wall of martyrs bunker with escape hatch.
Bunker placed right on front edge of deployment zone.
Escape hatch placed 12" into the center of battlefield.
Turn 1, Scarabs exit bunker using escape hatch, and move 12" across board to edge of opponents deployment zone, preferabley behind cover.
Run and/or going to ground
Turn 2 Assault.

You might want to double check, but I don't believe Beasts can embark into buildings.

 Kriswall wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Is there any rule preventing scarabs from entering and using a wall of martyrs bunker ?

Spoiler:

10 scarabs inside wall of martyrs bunker with escape hatch.
Bunker placed right on front edge of deployment zone.
Escape hatch placed 12" into the center of battlefield.
Turn 1, Scarabs exit bunker using escape hatch, and move 12" across board to edge of opponents deployment zone, preferabley behind cover.
Run and/or going to ground
Turn 2 Assault.

You might want to double check, but I don't believe Beasts can embark into buildings.

That is why I was asking. It made sense fluff wise, but I didn't have my rulebook handy at the time.

Looked it up.

Beasts rules themselves do not prevent it.
Building rules treat embarking and disembarking the same as vehicles.
Vehicles rules state only infantry can embark.

RAW not a valid tactict.

Has anyone tried running a CCB lord with a Staff of Light rather than a Warscythe? I generally try to keep mine out of combat - he can win against certain things, but has more vulnerability in Assault than he does zooming around. 3 extra shots at S5 AP3 if you take Gauss can be very scary to anything that isn't an MC or Terminator. Of course, you lose the ability wreck vehicles with Armourbane, but other than that, I think the tradeoff is worthwhile.

A single Staff of Light is hardly anything to be afraid of.
... 5 to 10 Staves of Light, on the other hand, should have MEQ players worried.
(eg. put a shooty RCDI in a Ghost Ark or Veil, go around blasting suckers with mass AP3)

Requizen wrote:
Has anyone tried running a CCB lord with a Staff of Light rather than a Warscythe? I generally try to keep mine out of combat - he can win against certain things, but has more vulnerability in Assault than he does zooming around. 3 extra shots at S5 AP3 if you take Gauss can be very scary to anything that isn't an MC or Terminator. Of course, you lose the ability wreck vehicles with Armourbane, but other than that, I think the tradeoff is worthwhile.

Would still require you to be in comfortable assault range to do anything.

Basically, once your foes realise there's no reason to shoot it and it has low proportionate damage output, the Barge loses a lot of value. It can kill vehicles, but scarabs can do it better at half the cost. It has a Warscythe and D6 HoW, but that ain't as good as proportionate dedicated assault units from the same codex.

Outside of the AV 13 spam playstyle, they've got limited utility at best, and honestly having zero interest in running vehicle spam myself I can't quite wrap my head aroud why, on a theoretical level, they'd even be a better option there than just supplementing the spam with combat units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 skoffs wrote:
A single Staff of Light is hardly anything to be afraid of.
... 5 to 10 Staves of Light, on the other hand, should have MEQ players worried.
(eg. put a shooty RCDI in a Ghost Ark or Veil, go around blasting suckers with mass AP3)

I'm definately interested in trying out the full Court of Light when I finish off my last few Lord conversions.

Pricey, but looks fun.

 skoffs wrote:
A single Staff of Light is hardly anything to be afraid of.
... 5 to 10 Staves of Light, on the other hand, should have MEQ players worried.
(eg. put a shooty RCDI in a Ghost Ark or Veil, go around blasting suckers with mass AP3)

Yeah, but you start racking up the cost by quite a bit at that point. I've always wanted to try out the Ghost Ark filled with SoLs, but that's ~415 points rolling around in one vehicle (before upgrades). Once it gets in 12", it kills anything that's not a T6 or 2+, though, which is pretty great, but it'll take a huge amount of fire getting to that point.

But maybe just 5 Destructeks rolling around in the Ark. 5 Eldrich Lance shots from an AV13 platform will make plenty of things cry, you could even throw in Zahndrekh in the list to constantly give the Barge a 3+ cover (Assuming they're not Ignoring Cover). Could potentially be an interesting unit - 290 points for a fairly solid platform shooting like Devestators.

The bargeLord is overrated.

However, its speed, vehicle popping, and tarpitting capabilities are solid.

Its sweep attack ignores cover and laughs at jink and can even hit zooming flyers.

With AV13 to boot the bargeLord is strong against Eldar.

The bargeLord can generally get to where it wants to be unscathed.

A D Lord + 6 wraiths will generally outperform the bargeLord in combat (if it gets there largely intact, which is a big IF in certain matchups like Tau). The bargeLord is generally lackluster in CC against the typical 10 MEQ unit where the wraiths have a kill feast.

However, the bargeLord outperforms a D Lord + 6 wraiths in certain matchups (elite killy units with str8 weapons and 2+)

Against 5 meganobs for example the wraiths go down super fast againt s8 weapons and are ineffective against 2+ and the D Lord lacks the invul save so the D Lord + 6 wraiths go down hard against 5 meganobs. Similarly, they go down hard against TH/SS Termies and TWC and the like.

The bargeLord is approximately evenly matched against the meganob unit of power klaw death (but that's 285 points versus 200 points so the meganobs are still showing off their CC superiority there).

Plus, making the 4+ reanimation roll for the bargeLord is huge, giving it a pseudo hit and run.

col_impact wrote:
Its sweep attack ignores cover and laughs at jink and can even hit zooming flyers.

Mmmm... You're using a hole in the rules there. You need to fly over something to sweep it and Zooming Flyers are implicitly in the sky.

Works, but I wouldn't be happy using a fluff-warping glitch like that. Good were it not for the conceptual wonkiness though. Anti-flyer that does something else is annoyingly hard to come by after the Interceptor nerf.

Against 5 meganobs for example the wraiths go down super fast againt s8 weapons and are ineffective against 2+ and the D Lord lacks the invul save so the D Lord + 6 wraiths go down hard against 5 meganobs. Similarly, they go down hard against TH/SS Termies and TWC and the like.

Actually, you're discounting the sheer number of attacks and thus rends here. Dunno how many attacks a Meganob has, but against Thunderhammer and Stormshield Terminators the fact that Termies only have one wound, Wraiths have way more attacks, are almost guaranteed to get the charge, and they have the same invul makes it pretty much even.

changemod wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Its sweep attack ignores cover and laughs at jink and can even hit zooming flyers.

Mmmm... You're using a hole in the rules there. You need to fly over something to sweep it and Zooming Flyers are implicitly in the sky.

Works, but I wouldn't be happy using a fluff-warping glitch like that. Good were it not for the conceptual wonkiness though. Anti-flyer that does something else is annoyingly hard to come by after the Interceptor nerf.

Against 5 meganobs for example the wraiths go down super fast againt s8 weapons and are ineffective against 2+ and the D Lord lacks the invul save so the D Lord + 6 wraiths go down hard against 5 meganobs. Similarly, they go down hard against TH/SS Termies and TWC and the like.

Actually, you're discounting the sheer number of attacks and thus rends here. Dunno how many attacks a Meganob has, but against Thunderhammer and Stormshield Terminators the fact that Termies only have one wound, Wraiths have way more attacks, are almost guaranteed to get the charge, and they have the same invul makes it pretty much even.

Fair enough. TWC is the more likely matchup anyway.

The bargeLord is better than the D Lord + wraiths in a lot of matchups a lot the times due to the D Lord + Wraiths taking wounds from small arms fire as it comes in. One big variable is how big the D Lord + wraiths squad when it finally gets into CC. Against shooty armies this is of course a huge consideration.

Regarding Sweep versus Flyers, I play the bargeLord RAW.

col_impact wrote:
The bargeLord is better than the D Lord + wraiths in a lot of matchups a lot the times due to the D Lord + Wraiths taking wounds from small arms fire as it comes in. One big variable is how big the D Lord + wraiths squad when it finally gets into CC. Against shooty armies this is of course a huge consideration.

Tends to lose 1d3 members against an agressively shooty list in my experience. I've never gotten the hang of wound allocation tricks though so I dunno if I could minimise that with better 2+ and Look out Sir manipulation.

Regarding Sweep versus Flyers, I play the bargeLord RAW.

Didn't say you didn't, just that I'm uncomfortable using gaps like failure to adequately define Flyers being on different vertical levels.

And the flyer rules just plain are kind of a mess, one flyer can warp a game horribly with it's prescence at times and deciding if a list is going to tie itself in knots to deal with them or just ignore them and concede it'll have to endure them buzzing around and never table that army is a pain.

I can't even imagine how bad it must be in areas where people put more than two on the table. (Referring to actual flyers here, not FMC which usually either come down to play eventually or are so defence focused they can't keep up with damage output.)

No experience with Wolf Cavalry yet. Cool models though.

Night Scythes are a bit overrated these days too. I am not saying they are not good. But not being able to hover is a huge liability in 7th edition. And they lost the ability to scoop troops back up inside them with the 7th edition FAQ.

Compare Night Scythes to Storm Talons. Before 7th, Night Scythe obviously better. But now that its 7th, Storm Talons are a little bit better. People will still complain about Night Scythes though.

col_impact wrote:
Night Scythes are a bit overrated these days too. I am not saying they are not good. But not being able to hover is a huge liability in 7th edition. And they lost the ability to scoop troops back up inside them with the 7th edition FAQ.

Compare Night Scythes to Storm Talons. Before 7th, Night Scythe obviously better. But now that its 7th, Storm Talons are a little bit better. People will still complain about Night Scythes though.

Well, Annie Barge with a ten point upgrade that lets it only be snap-shotted at by most things.

...And harder to aim, can't shoot until it arrives from reserves, no shielding...

And on the plus side again, not open topped and can help a unit functionally deep strike most of the board's width in with improved accuracy.

It balances out, but most people just see "Annie Barge with a ten point snapshot upgrade" at first glance.

Personally I prefer the Night Shroud. Not for practical reasons, just that a S10 bomb and better AV makes it pretty cool to play.

I've been enjoying taking less Night Scythes as of late, and running more Warriors in in Arks. AV13 feels really strong in this edition, though that could just be my local meta.

In a tourney scene Scythes are necessary to get your Stormteks to the enemy vehicles (yay Knights and Superheavies), but most of my opponents are Tyranids or foot lists, so I end up bringing DnD squads or Destructeks instead.

I've veered away from D&D lately because it causes a distressing amount of people halting the game to page through the rulebook and look for ways to disprove it.

Two guys have even tried point blank saying "Deathmark Unit" phrasing automaticaly excludes any attached character and calling the matter settled, though both didn't demand a redo of the phase and figured I'd just been "corrected" and wouldn't pull it again.

RAW or not, if they're having that reaction it must be making me look like a dick.

'S fine though, I'm hardly in a hypercompettitive meta and two deep striking units of Marks are plenty fun.

I even have a Deathmark and Praetorian parts Vindicator converted to be the "leader" of the Deathmark division of the army. Only used him once so far though. (He killed a Grey Knight Librarian and a Stormraven in rapid sucession with two turbo-penetrator rounds and the Stormraven fell on and crushed a Paladin. Statistically unlikely, but an amazing first outing.)

changemod wrote:
I've veered away from D&D lately because it causes a distressing amount of people halting the game to page through the rulebook and look for ways to disprove it.

Two guys have even tried point blank saying "Deathmark Unit" phrasing automaticaly excludes any attached character and calling the matter settled, though both didn't demand a redo of the phase and figured I'd just been "corrected" and wouldn't pull it again.

RAW or not, if they're having that reaction it must be making me look like a dick.

'S fine though, I'm hardly in a hypercompettitive meta and two deep striking units of Marks are plenty fun.

I even have a Deathmark and Praetorian parts Vindicator converted to be the "leader" of the Deathmark division of the army. Only used him once so far though. (He killed a Grey Knight Librarian and a Stormraven in rapid sucession with two turbo-penetrator rounds and the Stormraven fell on and crushed a Paladin. Statistically unlikely, but an amazing first outing.)

I actually like this idea of converted models to be representative of Assassins. Pariahs for those of us of old can use them as Culexus, and then come crazy looking Flayed One to be an Eversor.
Not sure how to tackle Callidus though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

changemod wrote:
I've veered away from D&D lately because it causes a distressing amount of people halting the game to page through the rulebook and look for ways to disprove it.

Two guys have even tried point blank saying "Deathmark Unit" phrasing automaticaly excludes any attached character and calling the matter settled, though both didn't demand a redo of the phase and figured I'd just been "corrected" and wouldn't pull it again.

RAW or not, if they're having that reaction it must be making me look like a dick.

'S fine though, I'm hardly in a hypercompettitive meta and two deep striking units of Marks are plenty fun.

I even have a Deathmark and Praetorian parts Vindicator converted to be the "leader" of the Deathmark division of the army. Only used him once so far though. (He killed a Grey Knight Librarian and a Stormraven in rapid sucession with two turbo-penetrator rounds and the Stormraven fell on and crushed a Paladin. Statistically unlikely, but an amazing first outing.)

I actually like this idea of converted models to be representative of Assassins. Pariahs for those of us of old can use them as Culexus, and then come crazy looking Flayed One to be an Eversor.
Not sure how to tackle Callidus though.

Yep, my (unused) Eversor is a Flayed One with one hand swapped for a Hyperphase sword and wrist-mounted particle caster. Thus he has the Freddy Kruger gauntlet, the power sword and the pistol.

Culexus is a Pariah as you said. Painted over his green plastic tube in glowy red-pink to show it's not Gauss anymore but a Necrony Anima Speculum equivalent.

Vindicare is a Praetorian with a Deathmark head, a one-handed Synaptic Disintegrator with a bayonet, and another pistol. Attempt at a vaguely James Bondish pose.

For the Callidus... I got lazy. My army has no Praetorians, so nobody'll confuse him for one and it's an excuse to own one, I guess. On the plus side he does have a blade and pistol by default. I can fluff the cage thing on his back as a hologram projector instead of a Jump Pack, I guess?

All my Crypteks used to be Pariahs. They all wield staff weapons are their heads make them distinguishable from the cannon fodder.

 adamsouza wrote:
All my Crypteks used to be Pariahs. They all wield staff weapons are their heads make them distinguishable from the cannon fodder.

Sensible reuse, though personally I've fallen in obsessive love with the cycloptic Deathmark/Cryptek heads.

My current project is a complete Science Team with 5 of each Cryptek Type barring only two Harbingers of Eternity (It'd be only one because you only take them for Chronometrons and his minions couldn't have them on the table... But both Orikan and Toholk are Eternity and I'm doubling Squad Leaders as special characters in some cases. Destruction is Szeras, Storm is Imhotek, Despair is Trazyn.)

26 of them have cycloptic heads. Toholk the Blinded still has a Deathmark head, but the eye is filed and liquid green stuffed out.

So, Imperial Knights as allies for an AV13 army that is not using CCBs. Sensible? They'll draw anti-tank fire from Barges, Arks, and possibly even things like Monoliths/Tesseract Arks (though then you're getting expensive). They're also not bad at tying up scary deathballs like TWC.

TWC will (typically) walk through a knight, but yea they do work as good allies, I recently ran Necrons with a knight errant at a local tourney and did extremely well.

Makes sense to me

Can also add a lot of the long-range firepower we lack

Two paladins will only set you back 760 points, and Necrons solo can make a solid 1000 point army list, which is a lot more TAC than most

Requizen wrote:
So, Imperial Knights as allies for an AV13 army that is not using CCBs. Sensible? They'll draw anti-tank fire from Barges, Arks, and possibly even things like Monoliths/Tesseract Arks (though then you're getting expensive). They're also not bad at tying up scary deathballs like TWC.

That base size plus Come the Apocalypse is gonna chew up a heck of a lot of board space, especially as you used plural.

Plus side, you could make Knights the Primary Detachment, convert them into War Mechs and Canoptek abominations, stick say... A combat Phaeron in a Scythe with an Immortal Squad for the mandatory (Or 5 warrior tax it, but I despise doing so, better to have your crew actually do something) then load up the other slots with speedy or shooty support units.

Nice and fluffy if you've got the conversions down and you could stick a lot in reserve.

I have something i'd like fellow Necron players to weigh in on. Recently it was brought to my attention by a mutual friend of a man who has become notorious in certain circles here in Northern Ireland for minmaxing/bending rules for the sake of cheese and online for a hilariously bad and ill fated kickstarter attempt last year.

According to him a death ray can't extend via the 3d6" roll beyond the range listed in the weapons profile. For example using the death ray on the Doom Scythe i nominate a point starting at the base of the flyer, as close as possible and by sheer luck I roll 3 6's meaning an 18" line. By his ruling the beam would vanish after leaving the 12" range bubble as listed in the weapons profile. This also applies to the focussed death ray of course so if I nominated a point 23.5" away from the pylon the line would only go 0.5" no matter what I rolled (should I want to hit something further away).

I have never played it this way nor have I seen any other Necron player (online and off) even mention this let alone play it that way and have understood the range listed in the weapons profiles as merely the range in which the line can be started.

His argument seems to stem from the fact traditional line weapons have their range in their profile as xd6" rather than the standard number. I can't comment on that as Necrons are my only army.

Is he right? Am I taking crazy pills?

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
I have something i'd like fellow Necron players to weigh in on. Recently it was brought to my attention by a mutual friend of a man who has become notorious in certain circles here in Northern Ireland for minmaxing/bending rules for the sake of cheese and online for a hilariously bad and ill fated kickstarter attempt last year.

According to him a death ray can't extend via the 3d6" roll beyond the range listed in the weapons profile. For example using the death ray on the Doom Scythe i nominate a point starting at the base of the flyer, as close as possible and by sheer luck I roll 3 6's meaning an 18" line. By his ruling the beam would vanish after leaving the 12" range bubble as listed in the weapons profile. This also applies to the focussed death ray of course so if I nominated a point 23.5" away from the pylon the line would only go 0.5" no matter what I rolled (should I want to hit something further away).

I have never played it this way nor have I seen any other Necron player (online and off) even mention this let alone play it that way and have understood the range listed in the weapons profiles as merely the range in which the line can be started.

His argument seems to stem from the fact traditional line weapons have their range in their profile as xd6" rather than the standard number. I can't comment on that as Necrons are my only army.

Is he right? Am I taking crazy pills?

Short answer. He is wrong. You just follow the instructions on the Death Ray. Only the first nominated point is within 12". You then roll 3d6 and then nominate a 2nd point that can be that many inches away from the first nominated point. Then draw a 1 mm line.

It also doesn't give you a speficic direction to extend the line in. Feel free to have it focus a penetrating straight line blast or rake sideways through an enemy line.

What should I tell my friend who has been pretty firmly brainwashed by this guy into his way of thinking? I've explained to him how it really works, which is how we've been playing it for years but now he just repeats the rule bending guys take on it.

I'm looking forward to Terminator Genisys coming out next year and the inevitable Knight Paladin Sized Endoskeleton Terminator toys that will follow.

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
What should I tell my friend who has been pretty firmly brainwashed by this guy into his way of thinking? I've explained to him how it really works, which is how we've been playing it for years but now he just repeats the rule bending guys take on it.

If this is the same rule-bending guy I think you are talking about , I think he's just sick to death about the Death Ray being "OP".

He also argued that the Death Ray hits all the models in a unit (using the rule-bending guys example, if the Death Ray passes over one model in a unit of 30 Ork Boyz, all 30 Boyz take a hit). Sounds about right (it was later FAQ'd to hit the number of models that are directly underneath the line, so in the previous example, it would just be one hit on the lone Ork Boy underneath the line).

I wouldn't take advice from the rule-bending guy, he sounds like a WAAC kind of player (and loves his deathstars).

If you want evidence, the Death Ray doesn't state the second point needs to be within 12" of the Doomscythe.

This is simply a false interpretation for the benefit of the SW player and his T5 TWC.

Yep he is the guy you're thinking of and he is a WAAC player more often than not. I just rang my friend and repeatedly read him the rules entry for the death ray and focussed death ray, underlining the fact it specifically mentions that the first point is within the weapons range and the second point can be anywhere within 3d6" of that point.

He came around to my interpretation thankfully.

Now the two of you need to start a campaign of correcting the misinformation he's been spreading.
Get enough people onboard and you might be able to widespread discredit him enough so that everyone will automatically assume anything he says from then on is an attempt to be TFG.