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Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





LaPorte, IN

You could also haywire sweep over the Knight then tarpit it with another unit to save the overlord from being assaulted.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 NecronLord3 wrote:
Um, super heavies? A lord cam take a Imp Kmight down to 2 Hp on a charge with the haywire alone, then the armourbane will finish it off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just a shame we are rocking that Int. 2.


The problem with the haywire special rule is that haywire replaces the armor penetration roll so you don't get to apply armourbane so overall your armourbane warscythe gets nerfed. I would rather have an armourbane warscythe than a haywire one.

Also I don't think haywire will get applied to the sweep attack since the haywire buff specifies close combat and the sweep attack is not specified as such.

However, the d6 hammer of wrath auto-hits do get haywire so that is definitely something pretty potent. With the give and take of the trait, its overall a buff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have started to run one mega-buffed mega-relicked Mephrit bargeLord with Nemesor Zandrekh for the 33% chance of Hit and Run on the bargeLord or the 66% chance of Hit and Run on the C'tan Shard Formation.

Rolling a successful Hit and Run on the bargeLord is absolutely phenomenal.
seems
Correction: It looks like the Sweep Attack does get Haywire since the warscythe involved is a "Melee weapon". However, it still is a nerf as opposed to the armourbane that you lose.

Also, since Hammer of Wrath isn't a "Melee weapon" it doesn't get haywire, so that sucks.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/06 10:17:56


 
   
Made in nl
Loyal Necron Lychguard



Netherlands

Thank you, I know there was a reason why it was a bad idea!
I forgot it replaced the regular Armour Penetration.

The Haywire would apply to the Sweeping Attack, but how often is that better than the Warscythe itself?
HoW would probably not work since Haywire is on the weapon itself, right?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Kangodo wrote:
Thank you, I know there was a reason why it was a bad idea!
I forgot it replaced the regular Armour Penetration.

The Haywire would apply to the Sweeping Attack, but how often is that better than the Warscythe itself?
HoW would probably not work since Haywire is on the weapon itself, right?


Correct. Hammer of Wrath is not a "Melee Weapon" so it does not get the haywire USR from the Warlord trait.

Haywire is marginally an upgrade over armourbane vs av 14. It is definitely better on av 15 or greater.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/06 10:25:30


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Bear in mind there are other Overlord weapons.

Sure, you won't take one under normal circumstances but if you're on a special character such as Zandrekh or Imhotek it's a buff.
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





LaPorte, IN

Not really worth building a tactic around the haywire trait since you have a 1/6 chance of ever getting it, who knows what the new dex holds, and the personal warlord tree is hands down the better option.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Basically if you are forced to take the Haywire Warlord trait you tell your opponent you are putting the warscythe aside and the bargeLord is pummeling the Imperial Knight with his bare hands just to to show him how bad @ss he is.

I am being facetious. You would probably want the ap 1 of the warscythe on the odd chance you score a pen with the Haywire instead of bare-handing your close combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
col_impact wrote:




I also tested out my go to list right now (mini spyder farm, bargeLord with Edge of Eternity and Solar Thermasite, MSS, SW, PS, RO, C'tan Shard formation with VeilTek and LightningTek, Nemesor Zandrekh and alpha strike VeilTek/StormTek teams) against a Pacific Rim list (Adamantine Lance + 3 Riptides, 2 x 10 Kroot and an Ethereal).

I deployed my 2 teams of 1 VeilTek and 3 StormTek and my C'tan Formation and my Nemesor Zandrekh 5 warrior unit on the board out of Line of Sight. My spyder farm was deployed in ruins.

My opponent stole the initiative with his Warlord Trait.

I got Eternal Warrior for my bargeLord (sweet ba-jeezuz!)

The Imperial Knights lumbered forward and put 2 wounds on my bargeLord with focused fire.

My turn one I surrounded the Adamantine Lance Formation from all angles with the deepstriking VeilTek/StormTek teams, the C'tan Formation, an Annihilation Barge, and the bargeLord. It forced a tough decision come choosing which side to put the shields on.

Long story short. One Knight went down turn one and the rest came down turn 2 and there suddenly wasn't enough of a force for my opponent to handle my army. The bargeLord reanimated 3 times and my cryptek teams kept having lingering survivors forcing my opponent to deal with them, since you cannot ignore a StormTek.

Again, my opponent was forced to deal with the Alpha Strike teams rather than deal with the Spyder farm so it grew turn 3 to critical mass once again.


Got a chance to re-test this match-up a few times.

This always goes savagely in my favor.

With 2 teams of 3 stormTeks attached to 1 veilTek and 1 C'tanShard Formation (veilTek/lightningTek with TT and PS) I can reliably surround and explode 2 Imperial Knights on the first turn and a good number of times kill all 3 in the first turn.

If you kill the center one first from an unshielded direction (remember you are deep striking aggressively so you can choose different sides based on selection of Knight to shoot at usually) the rest of the unit then loses its re-rollable save.

A bit of wildness factor comes in with the exploding Knight. Sometimes it hits you. One time I lost the Shard to an exploding Knight. Other times the explosion scatters into the other Knights causing a chain reaction of damage. Good fun!


So basically I don't think you need to go beyond teams of 1 veilTek attached to 3 StormTeks. Committing to more stormTeks will open up other weaknesses (such as bike armies and MC armies where stormTeks are meh)

At present I am trying to sort out whether I should bother worrying about the lack of objective secured by taking the Mephrit Dynasty Cohort. It's easy enough to ally in 2 objSec units in NS but is this worth the bother?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/01/07 07:47:34


 
   
Made in gb
Proud Triarch Praetorian





So, I just acquired Exterminatus.

Besides the sudden OP-ness of the Overlords, the Formations are good. However, this book did not include that one in which the Monolith can replace destroyed models from an infantry unit.

Where are those ones found?

Experience is something you get just after you need it
The Narkos Dynasty - 15k
Iron Hands - 12k
The Shadewatch - 3k
Cadmus Outriders - 4k
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k  
   
Made in us
Swift Swooping Hawk





Massachusetts

White dwarf...

"What we do in life, echoes in eternity" - Maximus Meridius

Check out Veterans of the Long War Podcast -
https://www.facebook.com/VeteransOfTheLongWar 
   
Made in gb
Proud Triarch Praetorian





are they WD exclusives?

Perhaps I should have been more clear, are they going to turn up in any of the books, or am I going to have to find which WD they were in and obtain a copy?

Experience is something you get just after you need it
The Narkos Dynasty - 15k
Iron Hands - 12k
The Shadewatch - 3k
Cadmus Outriders - 4k
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 IHateNids wrote:
are they WD exclusives?

Perhaps I should have been more clear, are they going to turn up in any of the books, or am I going to have to find which WD they were in and obtain a copy?


Yes, that single formation is a White Dwarf exclusive.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA


Guys, I'm going to take my "Oldcrons" out for their Last Hurrah before they get updated. Expect them to bring it home at TSHFT GT over some fierce competition.


The Necron Mephrit Dynasty with Necron allies (self-allying allowed).

Wish me luck!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/09 16:41:39



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in gb
Proud Triarch Praetorian





changemod wrote:
 IHateNids wrote:
are they WD exclusives?

Perhaps I should have been more clear, are they going to turn up in any of the books, or am I going to have to find which WD they were in and obtain a copy?


Yes, that single formation is a White Dwarf exclusive.
serves to reason that the blood angel/flesh tearers from that are also exclusives then...

I'll have to dig up a copy

Experience is something you get just after you need it
The Narkos Dynasty - 15k
Iron Hands - 12k
The Shadewatch - 3k
Cadmus Outriders - 4k
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k  
   
Made in nl
Loyal Necron Lychguard



Netherlands

 IHateNids wrote:
are they WD exclusives?
Perhaps I should have been more clear, are they going to turn up in any of the books, or am I going to have to find which WD they were in and obtain a copy?

http://bloodofkittens.com/formation-compendium/

White Dwarf 47
   
Made in gb
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Thanks a lot for that. Did not know that BoK had a compendium, of course checking would help helped.

Will make that a go-to

Experience is something you get just after you need it
The Narkos Dynasty - 15k
Iron Hands - 12k
The Shadewatch - 3k
Cadmus Outriders - 4k
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





So the general consensus with you guys is that we can run the C'tan Formation with Crypteks upgraded as Harbingers?
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife





Yes, the permission to upgrade to Harbingers is granted in the Cryptek section. There is a separate permission for Royal Court stuff, but doesn't impact the first permission.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Nilok wrote:
Yes, the permission to upgrade to Harbingers is granted in the Cryptek section. There is a separate permission for Royal Court stuff, but doesn't impact the first permission.


I am on the Warseer forum and the consensus on there is overwhelmingly that you cannot, and my RAW argument keeps getting shouted out. Its odd to see such a difference between forums.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




col_impact wrote:
 Nilok wrote:
Yes, the permission to upgrade to Harbingers is granted in the Cryptek section. There is a separate permission for Royal Court stuff, but doesn't impact the first permission.


I am on the Warseer forum and the consensus on there is overwhelmingly that you cannot, and my RAW argument keeps getting shouted out. Its odd to see such a difference between forums.


As I said in this forum's analysis of it, the idea comes from reading the individual sentence outside the context of the paragraph.

The paragraph spells out that in a Royal Court, you have permission to become the same Harbinger, thus having duplicate staves but not to have other duplicate wargear.

Reading the first sentence alone just gives permission to upgrade to harbingers of the same type, creating the false impression upgrading to a harbinger isn't a default thing if read without taking the full context into account.

Interestingly, this means you could duplicate other wargear in a Conclave if you had a good reason.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Here is a direct link to the thread I started on WarSeer

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?404140-Can-you-upgrade-Crypteks-into-Harbingers-in-the-Conclave-Formation-%28Exterminatus%29
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





Seriously col_impact you are making a fuss about this here too?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Reading this, you've made an extensive one man crusade on the issue to the extent that you've turned everyone against you on the strength of your intensity and persistence alone. Despite the issue obviously meaning a lot to you if you've spent that much time on it, it's probably time to let it go as you won't get anywhere after souring people to you over it.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




changemod wrote:


Reading this, you've made an extensive one man crusade on the issue to the extent that you've turned everyone against you on the strength of your intensity and persistence alone. Despite the issue obviously meaning a lot to you if you've spent that much time on it, it's probably time to let it go as you won't get anywhere after souring people to you over it.


I am of the opinion that logic should win out in rules debates and not the mob. Call me old-fashioned.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




col_impact wrote:
changemod wrote:


Reading this, you've made an extensive one man crusade on the issue to the extent that you've turned everyone against you on the strength of your intensity and persistence alone. Despite the issue obviously meaning a lot to you if you've spent that much time on it, it's probably time to let it go as you won't get anywhere after souring people to you over it.


I am of the opinion that logic should win out in rules debates and not the mob. Call me old-fashioned.


Yes, which is why that boat has sailed. You've turned them into much more of a mob than they were before with your approach, and thus have failed in your goal of using logic to change their minds.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




changemod wrote:
col_impact wrote:
changemod wrote:


Reading this, you've made an extensive one man crusade on the issue to the extent that you've turned everyone against you on the strength of your intensity and persistence alone. Despite the issue obviously meaning a lot to you if you've spent that much time on it, it's probably time to let it go as you won't get anywhere after souring people to you over it.


I am of the opinion that logic should win out in rules debates and not the mob. Call me old-fashioned.


Yes, which is why that boat has sailed. You've turned them into much more of a mob than they were before with your approach, and thus have failed in your goal of using logic to change their minds.


Dunno. I find that people become entrenched quickly. Debating rules on forums is more for learning the underpinnings of the rules for one self rather than trying to win people over.
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





col_impact wrote:
Dunno. I find that people become entrenched quickly. Debating rules on forums is more for learning the underpinnings of the rules for one self rather than trying to win people over.

Then why have you spent the last 3 days fighting everyone on warseer over it?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




col_impact wrote:
changemod wrote:
col_impact wrote:
changemod wrote:


Reading this, you've made an extensive one man crusade on the issue to the extent that you've turned everyone against you on the strength of your intensity and persistence alone. Despite the issue obviously meaning a lot to you if you've spent that much time on it, it's probably time to let it go as you won't get anywhere after souring people to you over it.


I am of the opinion that logic should win out in rules debates and not the mob. Call me old-fashioned.


Yes, which is why that boat has sailed. You've turned them into much more of a mob than they were before with your approach, and thus have failed in your goal of using logic to change their minds.


Dunno. I find that people become entrenched quickly. Debating rules on forums is more for learning the underpinnings of the rules for one self rather than trying to win people over.


Whilst you do keep saying things I would agree with, I really don't see what you're hoping to accomplish at this stage. You appear to have spent a considerable amount of time and effort restating your opinion against opposition that only gets more polarised as you stretch quickly past the point where they would be willing to listen.

It's a dead end conversation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/10 00:36:30


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 CrownAxe wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Dunno. I find that people become entrenched quickly. Debating rules on forums is more for learning the underpinnings of the rules for one self rather than trying to win people over.

Then why have you spent the last 3 days fighting everyone on warseer over it?


Tightens up my argument.
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife





col_impact wrote:
 CrownAxe wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Dunno. I find that people become entrenched quickly. Debating rules on forums is more for learning the underpinnings of the rules for one self rather than trying to win people over.

Then why have you spent the last 3 days fighting everyone on warseer over it?


Tightens up my argument.

Maybe to an outsider, however, you have basically been arguing a thread by your self for the past 3 days. You have basically antagonized the people there who are exhausted trying to argue with you since you have made it clear, you are not going to let up your position.

Another problem is that you didn't let the discussion evolve naturally and instead tried to force it into your final state. By trying to force it towards to where you think it should be, the thread turned against you.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/10 03:22:16


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





The thread on warseer is the funniest I've read in ages, I love a good forum fight. I figured it was a no brainer that crypteks could be upgraded as normal but actually if you read the rules then yeah RAW do make it pretty clear you can't upgrade the crypteks because they are not inside a royal court, staffs of light all round boys. col_impact must be trolling.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/10 09:55:48


 
   
 
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