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 Kain wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
If Space Marine is Canon, then all of it is, including murderously accurate Tankbustas, freakin' scary stealth Bomb Squigs, Ard boy Nobz that can just shug off repeated Melta and Lascannon hits..

Are you SURE you want to do this

As to my vote, Grots. They are basic infantry, being a codex troop choice. They have worse stats than TAU, FFS. In the fluff they do a chunk of the fighting too, in swarms of stabby little gits.

We may want to clarify whether we are defining basic infantry as codex choices in the troop slot here, or fluff-wise?

I can't thing of anything generally worse that's still a troop choice, as even Nurglings and Tau-in-CC beat them out

I wish TT Orks were as good as Relic Orks.

Relic is definitely an Ork loving company.

You bet they are. Catachans hit harder than 'Uge Choppa Nobz in retail Retribution.

wait wtf

There are people who don't use the hammers of kill everything?

To be fair, the hammers' base damage is less than 10% higher than the choppas'.

It is the stacking damage buff that quickly gets ridiculous.

My point stands- a 5 model swiss army knife T1 unit should not outdamage a dedicated heavy melee T3 unit that also is more expensive and lacks all the utility abilities and ludicrous ranged damage of the former...

Yeah in spite of 1d4chan's raging about "OP eldar" I generally found the Guard and Venom cannon spamming Tyranids (especially Carnifexes oh man the Carnifexes) to be much more of a problem.

The whining about the OP Eldar in the DOW games is largely bs. Unless you're uncoordinated enough to let a bunch of banshees drop on your face, Eldar are pretty easy to handle in DOW I by just getting SM's/CSM's heavy bolters, or getting heavy bolters as the IG to blow their infantry away while your tanks shred their armor. Or you could just play Necrons. In DOW II, eh. Eldar are freakishly good in T2 and T3, but they can be fought effectively by the other races. The main power of Eldar in DOW II is Wraithguard spam and Wraithlords murdering everything. If I had to choose a race as OP, it'd probably be Necrons or Space Marines in DOW I. Space Marines can drop a stupid amount of dreadnoughts right on top of your base and ensure you die, while Necrons are Necrons.

Also, for the most part all 1d4chan ever does is whine.

The Tau were also ridiculously absurd in DOW I.

The choice between Kauyon and Mont'ka is hardly a choice at all. Sure Crisis suits (especially with their lulzy flamers) and Hammerheads are nice, but Kauyon lets you field up to six relic unit equivalents and a knarloc to boot and buffs all your other units until your Tau can shoot farther than most artillery.

And for an army that's "weak" in melee, Carnivores and Hounds are plenty hurty, and the Tau Commander's DPS is nothing short of ridiculous. Meanwhile stealth suits can annoy the hell out of you from T1.

In any case, currently the big projects on 1d4chan are the Squat fandex and the Tyranod redux codex (I started a Slaugth fandex but I'm in a procrastinating mood and so haven't done anything but the bare bones).

There's also the disturbingly massive smut list.

From a DoW1 Tau player, Krootox are just broken. Super hard. I mean, Fire Warrior spam is one thing, but mass Krootox? Forget about it. I barely ever take Kauyon. Ever. Because, what's the fun in throwing six Krootox at something? Not much.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
From a DoW1 Tau player, Krootox are just broken. Super hard. I mean, Fire Warrior spam is one thing, but mass Krootox? Forget about it. I barely ever take Kauyon. Ever. Because, what's the fun in throwing six Krootox at something? Not much.

Tau games always devolved into "Stop the Krootox and Knarloc stampede".

Meanwhile Broadsides and Firewarriors slaughter everything at range.

Yup.

I remember when we got our Broadsides in teams of three. *sigh*. The Krootox just shouldn't have happened. Like, at all.

I don't get why DoWII's most effective anti tank weapon is the Ogryn. Seriously, they can tear apart a Russ way more effectively than a bunch of Lascannons.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Yup.

I remember when we got our Broadsides in teams of three. *sigh*. The Krootox just shouldn't have happened. Like, at all.

I don't get why DoWII's most effective anti tank weapon is the Ogryn. Seriously, they can tear apart a Russ way more effectively than a bunch of Lascannons.

I thought it was Melta stormies?

Or the Vanquisher when it spazzed out and spat out rapid fire shells.

Grey Templar wrote:And Stormtroopers already have a pretty good statline. No complaints there.

And their statline is only three points better than a firewarrior, which means that firewarriors also have a pretty good statline.

Stormtroopers have literally 1 extra point in their statline than a normal guardsman, and a normal guardsman is scarcely better than a firewarrior. Which is a unit that's still better than conscripts and gretchin.

 Kain wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Yup.

I remember when we got our Broadsides in teams of three. *sigh*. The Krootox just shouldn't have happened. Like, at all.

I don't get why DoWII's most effective anti tank weapon is the Ogryn. Seriously, they can tear apart a Russ way more effectively than a bunch of Lascannons.

I thought it was Melta stormies?

Or the Vanquisher when it spazzed out and spat out rapid fire shells.

Oh yeah, that. No, Ogryn are better than Melta Stormies. They're brutal, for no real reason.

The Glitchquisher is a beautiful sight to behold though. I believe the Executioner does it too, sometimes, which just leaves meaty chunks behind.

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Yup.

I remember when we got our Broadsides in teams of three. *sigh*. The Krootox just shouldn't have happened. Like, at all.

I don't get why DoWII's most effective anti tank weapon is the Ogryn. Seriously, they can tear apart a Russ way more effectively than a bunch of Lascannons.

I thought it was Melta stormies?

Or the Vanquisher when it spazzed out and spat out rapid fire shells.

Oh yeah, that. No, Ogryn are better than Melta Stormies. They're brutal, for no real reason.

The Glitchquisher is a beautiful sight to behold though. I believe the Executioner does it too, sometimes, which just leaves meaty chunks behind.

Venom cannons also had a weird habit of suddenly deciding they wanted to fire multi-shot bursts at random.

But watching a Vanquisher put out more shots than an Autocannon Khornate Chaos pred is a hilarious thing to watch.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
It's amazing how everybody seems to think that tau have bad eyesight even though the only place where that is mentioned (IIRC) is The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, which is officially propaganda.

Not to mention it also makes some eyebrow raising statements like Eldar weapons being relatively harmless to guardsmen. Sure if you're an Astatres you can take a hail of of shurikens to the face, but a guardsmen? Something that looks like a slushie will be all that's left.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
It's amazing how everybody seems to think that tau have bad eyesight even though the only place where that is mentioned (IIRC) is The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, which is officially propaganda.

Not to mention it also makes some eyebrow raising statements like Eldar weapons being relatively harmless to guardsmen. Sure if you're an Astatres you can take a hail of of shurikens to the face, but a guardsmen? Something that looks like a slushie will be all that's left.

The best part of it though?

"Genestealers are slow and sluggish and have blunt claws."

There is literally nothing correct about that statement.

Way to mislead your soldiers about creatures who wiped out 95% of the blood angels.

Kain wrote:"Genestealers are slow and sluggish and have blunt claws."

There is literally nothing correct about that statement.

Wait, yes there is.

"Genestealers ... claws".

Which, ironically enough, is all you really need to know about genestealers

Actually, to stay on with tyranid, termagaunts are in the running as well. They're guardsmen with +1I but -1Ld.

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Yup.

I remember when we got our Broadsides in teams of three. *sigh*. The Krootox just shouldn't have happened. Like, at all.

I don't get why DoWII's most effective anti tank weapon is the Ogryn. Seriously, they can tear apart a Russ way more effectively than a bunch of Lascannons.

I thought it was Melta stormies?

Or the Vanquisher when it spazzed out and spat out rapid fire shells.

Oh yeah, that. No, Ogryn are better than Melta Stormies. They're brutal, for no real reason.

The Glitchquisher is a beautiful sight to behold though. I believe the Executioner does it too, sometimes, which just leaves meaty chunks behind.

'

I will admit to not having seen that. There are a few stupid bugs in DoWII (Gaunts getting stuck in terrain) but otherwise it mostly seems like wonky balance.

Wait the nids took out the BA?

 Ashiraya wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Yup.

I remember when we got our Broadsides in teams of three. *sigh*. The Krootox just shouldn't have happened. Like, at all.

I don't get why DoWII's most effective anti tank weapon is the Ogryn. Seriously, they can tear apart a Russ way more effectively than a bunch of Lascannons.

I thought it was Melta stormies?

Or the Vanquisher when it spazzed out and spat out rapid fire shells.

Oh yeah, that. No, Ogryn are better than Melta Stormies. They're brutal, for no real reason.

The Glitchquisher is a beautiful sight to behold though. I believe the Executioner does it too, sometimes, which just leaves meaty chunks behind.

'

I will admit to not having seen that. There are a few stupid bugs in DoWII (Gaunts getting stuck in terrain) but otherwise it mostly seems like wonky balance.

I think the Vanquisher thing only happens in the Campaign, but the Ogryns... damn I hate the Ogryns...

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
It's amazing how everybody seems to think that tau have bad eyesight even though the only place where that is mentioned (IIRC) is The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, which is officially propaganda.

The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer is a well-sourced document, the result of many brilliant minds working in concert to equip our glorious soldiers with cutting edge information and research.

 raiden wrote:
Wait the nids took out the BA?

The Blood Angels once sent their entire chapter into a space hulk. IIRC, they only managed to extract around fifty guys. Everyone else was devoured thanks once again for people thinking terminators are a good counter against genestealers for some reason.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 raiden wrote:
Wait the nids took out the BA?

The Blood Angels once sent their entire chapter into a space hulk. IIRC, they only managed to extract around fifty guys. Everyone else was devoured thanks once again for people thinking terminators are a good counter against genestealers for some reason.

Wasn't that just 1 company?

It's Space Hulk and it was the First Company, not the whole Chapter.

Of course in the original Space Hulk if a stealer reached you you were uberly fethed, instead of just ignoring them and then beating them down at I 1

 Psienesis wrote:
It's Space Hulk and it was the First Company, not the whole Chapter.

I'm pretty sure it says 950 Blood Angels died on the space hulk in Space Hulk, stated in the rulebook and reaffirmed in the video game approved of by GW.

 Ascalam wrote:
Of course in the original Space Hulk if a stealer reached you you were uberly fethed, instead of just ignoring them and then beating them down at I 1

I've never understood why the hell they even send in terminators to fight genestealers besides high radiation if the space hulk is close to a star. Otherwise you're sending the worst possible unit imaginable to fight bullet timing super reptile bugs that pretty much have lightning claws for hands. You'd save yourself a lot of men and equipment if you just sent in Devastator squads armed with heavy flamers and grav weaponry to completely neutralize the advantages of Genestealers and turn them into sitting ducks.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
Of course in the original Space Hulk if a stealer reached you you were uberly fethed, instead of just ignoring them and then beating them down at I 1

I've never understood why the hell they even send in terminators to fight genestealers besides high radiation if the space hulk is close to a star. Otherwise you're sending the worst possible unit imaginable to fight bullet timing super reptile bugs that pretty much have lightning claws for hands. You'd save yourself a lot of men and equipment if you just sent in Devastator squads armed with heavy flamers and grav weaponry to completely neutralize the advantages of Genestealers and turn them into sitting ducks.

Well, grav guns aren't particularly good weapons against gene-stealers.

I think heavy bolters would be a better bet.

Heavy flamers worked wonders in that game though.

Doubly so if you ignored the rule saying that you couldn't flambe your own guys

no, space hulk was only the 1st company.

 raiden wrote:
no, space hulk was only the 1st company.

Nope.

Quotes taken directly from the Space Hulk Mission Book:

Of the entire Chapter, only fifty Space Marines survived

The Blood Angels have returned. We avenge nine hundred and fifty dead. Time alone does not heal our wounds

There is no room for doubt.

Grots. There are probably no less grots on the battlefield than orkses. At least before the battle starts

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
Of course in the original Space Hulk if a stealer reached you you were uberly fethed, instead of just ignoring them and then beating them down at I 1

I've never understood why the hell they even send in terminators to fight genestealers besides high radiation if the space hulk is close to a star. Otherwise you're sending the worst possible unit imaginable to fight bullet timing super reptile bugs that pretty much have lightning claws for hands. You'd save yourself a lot of men and equipment if you just sent in Devastator squads armed with heavy flamers and grav weaponry to completely neutralize the advantages of Genestealers and turn them into sitting ducks.

Actually... Not that bad.

Space Hulk, latest edition wrote:The space marine force, consisting of over eighty veterans in Terminator Armour, managed to not only cleanse the hulk of thousands of genestealers, but also recovered an ancient Blood Angels artifact in the process.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
Of course in the original Space Hulk if a stealer reached you you were uberly fethed, instead of just ignoring them and then beating them down at I 1

I've never understood why the hell they even send in terminators to fight genestealers besides high radiation if the space hulk is close to a star. Otherwise you're sending the worst possible unit imaginable to fight bullet timing super reptile bugs that pretty much have lightning claws for hands. You'd save yourself a lot of men and equipment if you just sent in Devastator squads armed with heavy flamers and grav weaponry to completely neutralize the advantages of Genestealers and turn them into sitting ducks.

I thik you're coming at this from the wrong angle. They don't send Terminators into space huilks to fight genestealers specifically. They send in terminators in becasue they are the de-facto best tunnel fighting troops in the Marine arsenal and they can handle a wide range of possible scenarios. It just so happens that the GW games and a lot of the associated background focus on the times when they come up against genestealers.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
Of course in the original Space Hulk if a stealer reached you you were uberly fethed, instead of just ignoring them and then beating them down at I 1

I've never understood why the hell they even send in terminators to fight genestealers besides high radiation if the space hulk is close to a star. Otherwise you're sending the worst possible unit imaginable to fight bullet timing super reptile bugs that pretty much have lightning claws for hands. You'd save yourself a lot of men and equipment if you just sent in Devastator squads armed with heavy flamers and grav weaponry to completely neutralize the advantages of Genestealers and turn them into sitting ducks.

Actually... Not that bad.

Space Hulk, latest edition wrote:The space marine force, consisting of over eighty veterans in Terminator Armour, managed to not only cleanse the hulk of thousands of genestealers, but also recovered an ancient Blood Angels artifact in the process.

It makes you wonder how over ten times more Blood Angels managed to fail so spectacularly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Flinty wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
Of course in the original Space Hulk if a stealer reached you you were uberly fethed, instead of just ignoring them and then beating them down at I 1

I've never understood why the hell they even send in terminators to fight genestealers besides high radiation if the space hulk is close to a star. Otherwise you're sending the worst possible unit imaginable to fight bullet timing super reptile bugs that pretty much have lightning claws for hands. You'd save yourself a lot of men and equipment if you just sent in Devastator squads armed with heavy flamers and grav weaponry to completely neutralize the advantages of Genestealers and turn them into sitting ducks.

I thik you're coming at this from the wrong angle. They don't send Terminators into space huilks to fight genestealers specifically. They send in terminators in becasue they are the de-facto best tunnel fighting troops in the Marine arsenal and they can handle a wide range of possible scenarios. It just so happens that the GW games and a lot of the associated background focus on the times when they come up against genestealers.

Genestealers are perhaps the most common inhabitants of space hulks, outstripping even Ork Waaaghs in transit and Chaos Warbands.

Space Hulk looters are often the genesis of Genestealer infestations that can corrupt whole worlds.