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Very interesting and thoughtful article on the history of racism in America, which makes a compelling argument that white Americans have been stealing the wealth of black Americans for generations, up into the present. This article is generating a lot of heat, and is well worth reading.


http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/05/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

There's a lot of interesting history in the article but it's not going to get what it wants both because the concept of reparations is something of a fools errand (not that African American's haven't been kept down imo) and because reparations are not going to resolve a lot of the underlying issues of modern institutional racism (if anything they might make them worse).

Reparations as an idea is a good way of inducing a discussion about the long term effects of slavery, but isn't remotely feasible for a myriad of issues.

 Ahtman wrote:
Reparations as an idea is a good way of inducing a discussion about the long term effects of slavery, but isn't remotely feasible for a myriad of issues.

If you read the article, it's not about slavery. Slavery ended 150 years ago, and when we reduce the discussion to just slavery, it becomes too easy to dismiss. Read the article, it's not about things that happened generations ago to people who are all dead now. It's about the continuous destruction of black wealth for white gain that followed slavery up into the modern era.

I'm not sure the author actually makes the case for reparations -- to me it really depends on what you mean by reparations. Is targeted funding of schools in primarily black neighborhoods reparations? Then I'm for that. But if we're talking cash payouts, then no, that seems like a bad idea that won't solve anything. I think what's more important is that the author makes a very compelling case that black poverty is directly attributable to white supremacy, and that we have run out of excuses for inaction.

Interesting article.

However, reparation is impossible.

Beside , one can argue that some reparative actions has taken place (and still ongoing).

Why should I have to pay anything? What great sin did I do? I was born white. You think, for that sin alone, I should be forced to pay money to black people? Insane.

Anyone who wants to seriously look into improving race relations should read everything written my Thomas Sowell. The man is a genius and speaks plain truth.

 Gen. Lee Losing wrote:
Why should I have to pay anything? What great sin did I do? I was born white. You think, for that sin alone, I should be forced to pay money to black people? Insane.

You're profiting from a system that's keeping black people as a group down, is the theory.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


You're profiting from a system that's keeping black people as a group down, is the theory.

I must have missed "Free College Day" when I was younger. I probably missed the "Auto Higher Pay" clause in my employment. And I must have forgot the secret white man code word that gets me out of speeding tickets- because I always have to pay those.

What magical bonus do I have?

 Gen. Lee Losing wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


You're profiting from a system that's keeping black people as a group down, is the theory.

I must have missed "Free College Day" when I was younger. I probably missed the "Auto Higher Pay" clause in my employment. And I must have forgot the secret white man code word that gets me out of speeding tickets- because I always have to pay those.

What magical bonus do I have?

Not being anywhere near as likely to be harassed by police, not being anywhere near as likely to be jailed, not being anywhere near as likely to be killed.

2/10 for effort though.

This thread again...

I bow out.

 Gen. Lee Losing wrote:
What magical bonus do I have?

You really should read the article, because from your comments I think it's fairly clear you have not.



Anyway, for the OP; you're pretty new here. You post interesting stuff, I like the cut of your jib. There was a lot of good stuff in that article - I didn't know most of the things about how Germany came to make reparations (I had assumed they were mandated when they surrendered).

I don't think reparations in the idea of what people usually think of when they hear the word are workable, as you say, but in this age of American jingoism it's fairly common to forget, or at least downplay, that this is a country with a heavy, heavy moral debt; if not economical. It's certainly a very persuasive case for the continuing of affirmative action programs in colleges and similar, I think.

 Gen. Lee Losing wrote:
Why should I have to pay anything? What great sin did I do? I was born white. You think, for that sin alone, I should be forced to pay money to black people? Insane.

Maybe you could try reading the article.

Anyone who wants to seriously look into improving race relations should read everything written my Thomas Sowell. The man is a genius and speaks plain truth.

Thomas Sowell has made a great living telling racist white men that they aren't racist at all. I would strongly recommend reading Sowell if you want to become a stereotype of a the clueless racist conservative who is completely incapable of understanding why everyone who isn't a conservative notices that conservatives have a huge racism problem.

Seriously, if you don't find Sowell's writings on race to be offensive, you are almost certainly a racist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:
I don't think reparations in the idea of what people usually think of when they hear the word are workable, as you say, but in this age of American jingoism it's fairly common to forget, or at least downplay, that this is a country with a heavy, heavy moral debt; if not economical. It's certainly a very persuasive case for the continuing of affirmative action programs in colleges and similar, I think.

Yeah, when most people hear "reparations" they think "hand out giant checks," like lottery winnings. The Dave Chapelle video up above is a pretty humorous take on what that would look like, and is probably not far from the truth. Poor people have no idea how to handle money because they never have money to handle; it's why so many lottery winners end up poor again. They don't know how to invest and manage portfolios because nobody they know has those things. But we could be putting a lot of money into schools, and tutoring programs, and adult outreach programs to reach parents and help them help their kids, to break cycles of poverty. We could be creating investment pools for middle-class black entrepreneurs. There's lots of sensible things we can do.

We probably won't, but hopefully we can at least get to a point where people stop denying this is a deeply racist country.

 friendlycommissar wrote:


Thomas Sowell has made a great living telling racist white men that they aren't racist at all. I would strongly recommend reading Sowell if you want to become a stereotype of a the clueless racist conservative who is completely incapable of understanding why everyone who isn't a conservative notices that conservatives have a huge racism problem.

Seriously, if you don't find Sowell's writings on race to be offensive, you are almost certainly a racist.

Racists today have done a rather marvelous job redefining racism into other terms. It's not because they're black. They're just uncultured, from single parent homes, and poor. Ignore the system behind the curtain. The concept of insitutional racism seems to completely go over their heads, not that they care.

EDIT: Then people who aren't really racist buy into the crap, and start repeating it with no consideration for what it is they're peddling.

 friendlycommissar wrote:

 Gen. Lee Losing wrote:
Why should I have to pay anything? What great sin did I do? I was born white. You think, for that sin alone, I should be forced to pay money to black people? Insane.

Maybe you could try reading the article.

Anyone who wants to seriously look into improving race relations should read everything written my Thomas Sowell. The man is a genius and speaks plain truth.

Thomas Sowell has made a great living telling racist white men that they aren't racist at all. I would strongly recommend reading Sowell if you want to become a stereotype of a the clueless racist conservative who is completely incapable of understanding why everyone who isn't a conservative notices that conservatives have a huge racism problem.

Seriously, if you don't find Sowell's writings on race to be offensive, you are almost certainly a racist.

I read it. And my heart goes out to the poor souls who were so obviously abused in the past. And I acknowledge that abuses still occur.
Now, My family immigrated post WWII from the UK to the US. On arriving some filthy jerk landlord took every dollar my granddad had as "First and Last Month Rent" and a week later told him the building was coming down for a freeway and he would not get his money back. Bad thing can and do happen to white people too.

And those who directly took advantage of blacks should be open to criminal and civil lawsuits. But to ask that my taxes be increases solely because I share a skin color to someone, somewhere, who did bad things is racist.

Now, you can shoot down Thomas Sowell or his like as an Uncle Tom or whatever you want. But to say that someone who disagrees is automatically a racism enabler is a bit much for an intellectually honest person to swallow. Do you say the same about Bill Crosby?

Well, I really need to stop now. I have an evil conservative secret meeting where I will be given free money to go to. Its part of the basic 'White Privilege' package. After that I am going to walk around and hold some African Americans down. I don't know how, but I am evil and white (redundant) so I will figure something out...

 Gen. Lee Losing wrote:


Now, you can shoot down Thomas Sowell or his like as an Uncle Tom or whatever you want. But to say that someone who disagrees is automatically a racism enabler is a bit much for an intellectually honest person to swallow. Do you say the same about Bill Crosby?

Strawmanning and complaining about academic dishonesty in the same paragraph? Give the man a medal.

Reparation is both an impossible, stupid, and abhorrent idea at the same time.

1) Nowhere near enough cash to pay it out.

2) Its not going to fix anything.

3) You are holding every current white person responsible for the actions of a tiny minority of white people from several generations ago. That opens up a whole can of worms you don't want to open. It would mean we would also have to hold the descendents of Nazi war criminals to be as equally responsible for their ancestors actions as they were, the descendents of Romans would have to be tried for throwing people to lions, the descendents of Vikings would have to be held responsible for all the plundering, pillage, and rape they committed(ditto for the Mongolians and Huns), etc...

There is no argument which can make it a good idea. Anyone espousing it should be ignored.

You are only responsible for your actions.

 friendlycommissar wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Reparations as an idea is a good way of inducing a discussion about the long term effects of slavery, but isn't remotely feasible for a myriad of issues.

If you read the article, it's not about slavery.

You don't think institutional racism has its roots in the long term effects of slavery, whether actual or de facto, or that slavery will come up in a discussion about reparations then you may not be ready for the discussion yet.

How many treaties we broke with the Native Americans? Opening one can of worms will open a slew of others

So is thi article just another "Blame Whitey" article?

 Grey Templar wrote:
Reparation is both an impossible, stupid, and abhorrent idea at the same time.

1) Nowhere near enough cash to pay it out.

2) Its not going to fix anything.

3) You are holding every current white person responsible for the actions of a tiny minority of white people from several generations ago. That opens up a whole can of worms you don't want to open. It would mean we would also have to hold the descendents of Nazi war criminals to be as equally responsible for their ancestors actions as they were, the descendents of Romans would have to be tried for throwing people to lions, the descendents of Vikings would have to be held responsible for all the plundering, pillage, and rape they committed(ditto for the Mongolians and Huns), etc...

There is no argument which can make it a good idea. Anyone espousing it should be ignored.

You are only responsible for your actions.

stop making so much sense,

we are supposed to totally ignore the actions of people that long ago, in regards to how they set out things like the constitution, but we are all personally to blame for the actions of some people during that time period, and we are all subconsciously still doing it and enabling it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So is thi article just another "Blame Whitey" article?

smart kid, youll go far.

 Ahtman wrote:

 friendlycommissar wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Reparations as an idea is a good way of inducing a discussion about the long term effects of slavery, but isn't remotely feasible for a myriad of issues.

If you read the article, it's not about slavery.

You don't think institutional racism has its roots in the long term effects of slavery, whether actual or de facto, or that slavery will come up in a discussion about reparations then you may not be ready for the discussion yet.

Thanks for completing ignoring everything I said after the line you quoted, and then condescendingly implying I'm the one not ready for discussion.

 easysauce wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Reparation is both an impossible, stupid, and abhorrent idea at the same time.

1) Nowhere near enough cash to pay it out.

2) Its not going to fix anything.

3) You are holding every current white person responsible for the actions of a tiny minority of white people from several generations ago. That opens up a whole can of worms you don't want to open. It would mean we would also have to hold the descendents of Nazi war criminals to be as equally responsible for their ancestors actions as they were, the descendents of Romans would have to be tried for throwing people to lions, the descendents of Vikings would have to be held responsible for all the plundering, pillage, and rape they committed(ditto for the Mongolians and Huns), etc...

There is no argument which can make it a good idea. Anyone espousing it should be ignored.

You are only responsible for your actions.

stop making so much sense,

we are supposed to totally ignore the actions of people that long ago, in regards to how they set out things like the constitution, but we are all personally to blame for the actions of some people during that time period, and we are all subconsciously still doing it and enabling it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So is thi article just another "Blame Whitey" article?

smart kid, youll go far.

Sarcasm detected...maybe?

 Grey Templar wrote:
1) Nowhere near enough cash to pay it out.

That's a complete fallacy. There is as much cash as the Federal Reserve says there is. It is literally impossible to run out of cash.

2) Its not going to fix anything.

That's nothing but defeatism.

3) You are holding every current white person responsible for the actions of a tiny minority of white people from several generations ago. That opens up a whole can of worms you don't want to open. It would mean we would also have to hold the descendents of Nazi war criminals to be as equally responsible for their ancestors actions as they were, the descendents of Romans would have to be tried for throwing people to lions, the descendents of Vikings would have to be held responsible for all the plundering, pillage, and rape they committed(ditto for the Mongolians and Huns), etc...

You know how I know you didn't actually read the article, and just dismissed it out of hand without even pausing to think or consider the argument being made? Because the underlined bit there, that's exactly what happened. Germany -- including Germans born after the war! -- paid reparations to Israel for the crimes of the Nazis. Your other examples are bogus, because they refer to events that occurred centuries ago and have no meaningful consequences in the modern world.

Again this demonstrates that you did not read the article, which is full of examples of how modern, contemporary African-Americans have been systematically impoverished by institutional racism while whites have systematically benefit.

There is no argument which can make it a good idea. Anyone espousing it should be ignored.

The calling card of a man who has abandoned all reason and logic in favor of simplistic and emotionally satisfying ideology. There is no argument which can make it a good idea {u]to you[/u], because you are close-minded and unwilling to consider arguments fairly and rationally.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Sarcasm detected...maybe?

oh you were being sarcastic? the internets doesnt indicate that tone of voice, so you have to actually let us know when you are being sarcastic.

I thought your BS meter was working on this article lol

now THERE is some good sarcasm lol

Ignore the fact that tens of thousands of white men died to give them freedom, just concentrate on the minority that "keeps them down" and blame the whole white race. ::eye roll::


America is a land where in a single generation you can lift yourself up with hard work and education. Many of our wealthiest individuals have came from nothing and built empires by their own hand. While not everyone achieves that level of success, it is certainly possible to rise far above your roots. Any person can build a life for themselves regardless of the circumstance that they come from by educating themselves, it's all determined by how driven you are and how willing you are to grow and evolve as a person. This is true regardless of race, the difficulty is that in order to make those changes is that people have to take responsibility for the actions they do (or don't do) that hinder their own success. It's very hard for most people to be truly honest with themselves about what is holding them back in life and it's usually easier to blame something or someone else for those failures.

Where we come from is not under our control, but the choices you make you have power over where you end up. Sometimes our past means we have to work harder for certain things, but you are not bound to the past if you choose not to let it hinder you.

Nobody in life is "owed" anything, you can choose to either accept the life you have, or take actions to improve upon it.

 easysauce wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Sarcasm detected...maybe?

oh you were being sarcastic? the internets doesnt indicate that tone of voice, so you have to actually let us know when you are being sarcastic.

I thought your BS meter was working on this article lol

While I agree with that the article makes points to WHY they are in poverty, after awhile you have t stop making excuses. Whitey used t be to blame, but not anymore.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 easysauce wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Sarcasm detected...maybe?

oh you were being sarcastic? the internets doesnt indicate that tone of voice, so you have to actually let us know when you are being sarcastic.

I thought your BS meter was working on this article lol

While I agree with that the article makes points to WHY they are in poverty, after awhile you have t stop making excuses. Whitey used t be to blame, but not anymore.

cool, we are on the same page, I think you thought I was calling you a smart guy sarcastically, I was not.