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Lungpickle wrote:
per the digi codex drop down highlights.

Psyker is either a psychic pilot, or psyker.

psyker unit refers to both the brother hoods.

so pink horrors, and a herald of tzentch (sp) are not a psyker unit just the horrors, so yes they both can cast flickering fire during the psychic phase. i would post the highlighted rules but allas we cant do that.

While that is true the problem lies in the fact that the pink horrors are brotherhood which confers to all models in the unit making the herald part of the brotherhood psyker unit messing it all up

katana100 wrote:
Okay again thought the only time in the rules we have permission for gaining a psyker unit is brotherhood as it is a confering USR that states about making psyker units. If I am wrong so where in the psyker or psychic pilot rule that it confers to other models and where in them.it stats that they make a psychic unit and will concede the point

I've just read this 5 times, and I still have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Psyker and psychic pilot do not confer and thus do not make a psychic unit. Only Brotherhood confers to the unit and only brotherhood makes a psyker unit as it is in its USR

Show me where in the rules we get told that psyker and psychic pilot make a unit a psyker unit.

(so about previous post was on phone and can see literally none of what I am writing as it keeps jumpinp up)

katana100 wrote:
Show me where in the rules we get told that psyker and psychic pilot make a unit a psyker unit.

I'm confused... you posted the relevant rule yourself earlier in the thread:

katana100 wrote:
Pg 22 - For the purposes of all rules, the term 'psyker' and 'psyker unit' refers to any unit with the Psykee (pg 170), Psychich Pilot (pg 170) or Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers (pg 159) special...

So any unit with the Psyker or Psychic Pilot rule is a Psyker Unit.

 insaniak wrote:

katana100 wrote:
Show me where in the rules we get told that psyker and psychic pilot make a unit a psyker unit.

I'm confused... you posted the relevant rule yourself earlier in the thread:

katana100 wrote:
Pg 22 - For the purposes of all rules, the term 'psyker' and 'psyker unit' refers to any unit with the Psykee (pg 170), Psychich Pilot (pg 170) or Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers (pg 159) special...

So any unit with the Psyker or Psychic Pilot rule is a Psyker Unit.

*sigh* I knew you where going to quote that but that is what that is saying read the brotherhood rules that is the rules for a psyker unit it says as much.

That rule is stating where they writr psyker uni or psyker you can i terchange the word as needed dependong oj the circumstance so in perils where it says a psyker unit takes a perils of the warp test it can be read a psyker takes a perils of the warp it is in no way saying that they are the same thing

It sounds like you're possibly just a little confused about what constitutes a 'unit' in Warhammer 40K.

A squad of Brotherhood psykers is a unit of 1 or more models. Because they are a unit that has the Brotherhood rule, they are a psyker unit, as per that rule on page 22.

An Independant Character Psyker is a unit of one model. Because he has the Psyker rule, he is a psyker unit, as per that rule on page 22.

Hey i've been reading this thread and I think I found the source of all this consternation. As the OP said in the title, it all stems from the usage of "unit" in the rule book. Now most people when they hear the word think of a group of models, and that's reasonable. That is not how GW uses the term in the rulebook however. Unit is a catch all, a umbrella term describing lone models, groups of models (squads), Monstrous Creatures, etc...It's their pronoun.

A unit usually consists of several models that have banded
together, but a single, powerful model, such as a lone character, a tank, a war engine or a
rampaging monster, is also considered to be a unit in its own right.

On pg. 9 they explain how it will be used. It can mean pretty much anything depending on the context. Now context is key because they will reuse this word in the psyker section as a "Psyker unit, Psyker, and unit.

For the purposes of all rules, the term ‘Psyker’ and ‘Psyker unit’ refers to any unit with the
Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rules.

To manifest a psychic power, you will first need to select one of your Psyker units. It
does not matter if the selected unit is Falling Back or has Gone to Ground. Then, select a
psychic power known to the selected unit that the unit has not already attempted
to manifest in this Psychic phase.

Pg. 24

Assuming you have enough Warp Charge points, you can alternate back and forth between the same Psyker units in this way, but no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than one per Psychic Phase.

The bolded parts are key because when they're used in context, the word unit is a call back to the original use of the term Psyker unit in the paragraph or sentence. Unit is an abbreviation that the author is expecting you to follow.

What is happening here is a unintentional broadening of the word unit to a squad when the context of the paragraph doesn't call for it. Their dealing solely with the definition of a Psyker Unit which was explained earlier in the section.

So what you take from this is that Psyker rule (or BoP) can only manifest the same power once (reasonable), and they alone suffer the perils. Its much simpler when you stop focusing on the broader use of the term "Unit" and actually engage on the context of the section.

 insaniak wrote:
It sounds like you're possibly just a little confused about what constitutes a 'unit' in Warhammer 40K.

A squad of Brotherhood psykers is a unit of 1 or more models. Because they are a unit that has the Brotherhood rule, they are a psyker unit, as per that rule on page 22.

An Independant Character Psyker is a unit of one model. Because he has the Psyker rule, he is a psyker unit, as per that rule on page 22.

I know what a unit it it is a group of several models or a lone epic hero blahblah

So by what your saying a tactical squad becuase one model has a flamer in it is a flamer unit or becuaee a model has zealot it is a zealot unit or even becuase it is a IC in the unit it is a IC unit not a unit with a flamer in or a character with the zealot or IC rule.

Units are made of of model eith varying rules and wargear there are in cases where USR confers to the wholeunit like brotherhood does as it states it does in its rules where as psyker does not state it confers.

Katana100,
We lack instructions telling us how to determine if X causes the Unit to be an "X Unit" outside of one specific situation, that of Psykers. This is a glaring Black Hole not just in 7th Edition, it has plagued Editions right back to the first which would allow two Units to merge into a single Unit. This latest development is just the most logical conclusion that would stem from Game Workshops inability to resolve this particular little problem once and for all, if we had Rules on how to determine "Unit Status" for Mixed-Units then we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.

Therefore the comparison of a 'Flamer Unit' is inaccurate, because we have instructions telling us how to determine if something is a "Pskyker Unit."

katana100 wrote:
So by what your saying a tactical squad becuase one model has a flamer in it is a flamer unit or becuaee a model has zealot it is a zealot unit or even becuase it is a IC in the unit it is a IC unit not a unit with a flamer in or a character with the zealot or IC rule.

No. By what I'm saying, any unit with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood rules is a Psyker Unit. Because that's what the rule on page 22 says.

That was a direct response to your statement that Brotherhood units are the only thing that can be called a Psyker Unit. That statement is incorrect. Brotherhood units are Psyker Units. Vehicles with the Psychic Pilot rule are Psyker Units. Independant Characters with the Psyker rule are Psyker Units. Units of Psykers (like Warlocks) are Psyker Units.

Whether or not a unit made up of non-psykers with an IC joined to it is a Psyker Unit is, as I have pointed out repeatedly through this thread, something that we simply do not have enough information to determine.

 insaniak wrote:

katana100 wrote:
So by what your saying a tactical squad becuase one model has a flamer in it is a flamer unit or becuaee a model has zealot it is a zealot unit or even becuase it is a IC in the unit it is a IC unit not a unit with a flamer in or a character with the zealot or IC rule.

No. By what I'm saying, any unit with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood rules is a Psyker Unit. Because that's what the rule on page 22 says.

That was a direct response to your statement that Brotherhood units are the only thing that can be called a Psyker Unit. That statement is incorrect. Brotherhood units are Psyker Units. Vehicles with the Psychic Pilot rule are Psyker Units. Independant Characters with the Psyker rule are Psyker Units. Units of Psykers (like Warlocks) are Psyker Units.

Whether or not a unit made up of non-psykers with an IC joined to it is a Psyker Unit is, as I have pointed out repeatedly through this thread, something that we simply do not have enough information to determine.

If you notice, the examples you provide all clearly state that they are Psyker units, but for mixed units it does not, the answer is obvious, a mixed unit would not be considered a Psyker unit.

Zodiark wrote:
If you notice, the examples you provide all clearly state that they are Psyker units, but for mixed units it does not, the answer is obvious, a mixed unit would not be considered a Psyker unit.

Except that would mean that an IC Psyker joined to a non-psyker unit would not count towards your warp points for the psychic phase.

 insaniak wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
If you notice, the examples you provide all clearly state that they are Psyker units, but for mixed units it does not, the answer is obvious, a mixed unit would not be considered a Psyker unit.

Except that would mean that an IC Psyker joined to a non-psyker unit would not count towards your warp points for the psychic phase.

How? Does he stop being a Psyker? I see no ruling that states that the Psyker stops being a Psyker because he is in another unit.

"Each player then adds up the Mastery Levels of all the Psyker units they currently have on the tabletop" Direct quote.

The Psyker in a mixed unit doesn't lose his Mastery Levels if he is in a unit so you would count as normal

Zodiark wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
If you notice, the examples you provide all clearly state that they are Psyker units, but for mixed units it does not, the answer is obvious, a mixed unit would not be considered a Psyker unit.

Except that would mean that an IC Psyker joined to a non-psyker unit would not count towards your warp points for the psychic phase.

How? Does he stop being a Psyker? I see no ruling that states that the Psyker stops being a Psyker because he is in another unit.

"Each player then adds up the Mastery Levels of all the Psyker units they currently have on the tabletop" Direct quote.

The Psyker in a mixed unit doesn't lose his Mastery Levels if he is in a unit so you would count as normal

You said the mixed unit is not a psyker unit.
Since only psyker units add mastery levels, per your quote, it wouldn't add mastery levels.

rigeld2 wrote:

Zodiark wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
If you notice, the examples you provide all clearly state that they are Psyker units, but for mixed units it does not, the answer is obvious, a mixed unit would not be considered a Psyker unit.

Except that would mean that an IC Psyker joined to a non-psyker unit would not count towards your warp points for the psychic phase.

How? Does he stop being a Psyker? I see no ruling that states that the Psyker stops being a Psyker because he is in another unit.

"Each player then adds up the Mastery Levels of all the Psyker units they currently have on the tabletop" Direct quote.

The Psyker in a mixed unit doesn't lose his Mastery Levels if he is in a unit so you would count as normal

You said the mixed unit is not a psyker unit.
Since only psyker units add mastery levels, per your quote, it wouldn't add mastery levels.

Except that it does where I play. Because we read the RAW and since it doesn't say anything to contradict, we play it as it does as the BRB does a good job as letting you know when you can or cannot do something.

That's enough I'll add in reply to you unless you bring rule quotes to contradict my statement, don't want another senseless thread of arguing.

Zodiark wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Zodiark wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
If you notice, the examples you provide all clearly state that they are Psyker units, but for mixed units it does not, the answer is obvious, a mixed unit would not be considered a Psyker unit.

Except that would mean that an IC Psyker joined to a non-psyker unit would not count towards your warp points for the psychic phase.

How? Does he stop being a Psyker? I see no ruling that states that the Psyker stops being a Psyker because he is in another unit.

"Each player then adds up the Mastery Levels of all the Psyker units they currently have on the tabletop" Direct quote.

The Psyker in a mixed unit doesn't lose his Mastery Levels if he is in a unit so you would count as normal

You said the mixed unit is not a psyker unit.
Since only psyker units add mastery levels, per your quote, it wouldn't add mastery levels.

Except that it does where I play. Because we read the RAW and since it doesn't say anything to contradict, we play it as it does as the BRB does a good job as letting you know when you can or cannot do something.

That's enough I'll add in reply to you unless you bring rule quotes to contradict my statement, don't want another senseless thread of arguing.

So that's a RAI/HYWPI argument then. Fair enough - in the future please clarify that fact beforehand.

rigeld2 wrote:

Zodiark wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Zodiark wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
If you notice, the examples you provide all clearly state that they are Psyker units, but for mixed units it does not, the answer is obvious, a mixed unit would not be considered a Psyker unit.

Except that would mean that an IC Psyker joined to a non-psyker unit would not count towards your warp points for the psychic phase.

How? Does he stop being a Psyker? I see no ruling that states that the Psyker stops being a Psyker because he is in another unit.

"Each player then adds up the Mastery Levels of all the Psyker units they currently have on the tabletop" Direct quote.

The Psyker in a mixed unit doesn't lose his Mastery Levels if he is in a unit so you would count as normal

You said the mixed unit is not a psyker unit.
Since only psyker units add mastery levels, per your quote, it wouldn't add mastery levels.

Except that it does where I play. Because we read the RAW and since it doesn't say anything to contradict, we play it as it does as the BRB does a good job as letting you know when you can or cannot do something.

That's enough I'll add in reply to you unless you bring rule quotes to contradict my statement, don't want another senseless thread of arguing.

So that's a RAI/HYWPI argument then. Fair enough - in the future please clarify that fact beforehand.

You do realize that Rules as Interpreted is pretty much everything you do right. The process of reading on a mental basis is all about your brain analyzing and interpreting rules, which means all you do is interpret things. Some people read and see an answer immediately while others read and think that there is some vague conspiracy afoot in which they must question everything simply because there was no direct mention of a specific instance that occurs on an infrequent basis for individuals who have a problem interpreting from the start.

HYWPI. I play it how I read it. It isn't a home brew, it isn't rule breaking. I play it how it reads. I have yet to come across anything I flat out needed to have a full on discussion. Everything I've talked about the last few days I already understood when I got into the discussions in the first place, hence why I tried to answer the questions, but you people in this forum don't care for RAW it seems, though you claim to do so. You look for something specific and upon not finding it you feel that it is okay to simply do with it how you want which isn't really the right way to go about doing things, but this is okay, its one of the golden rules.

In the future, please cite exact quotes or at least a page and sentence when adding anything to a discussion because you have failed to do so on every account

Zodiark wrote:
How? Does he stop being a Psyker? I see no ruling that states that the Psyker stops being a Psyker because he is in another unit.

"Each player then adds up the Mastery Levels of all the Psyker units they currently have on the tabletop" Direct quote.

The Psyker in a mixed unit doesn't lose his Mastery Levels if he is in a unit so you would count as normal

Per that quote, you ad up the mastery levels of your psyker units. You just said that the IC in a non-psyker unit is not a psyker unit. So you wouldn't add his mastery level.

 insaniak wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
How? Does he stop being a Psyker? I see no ruling that states that the Psyker stops being a Psyker because he is in another unit.

"Each player then adds up the Mastery Levels of all the Psyker units they currently have on the tabletop" Direct quote.

The Psyker in a mixed unit doesn't lose his Mastery Levels if he is in a unit so you would count as normal

Per that quote, you ad up the mastery levels of your psyker units. You just said that the IC in a non-psyker unit is not a psyker unit. So you wouldn't add his mastery level.

I did not say he was a non-psyker unit, do NOT put words in my mouth sir. I said the MIXED unit was not a Psyker unit. The Psyker never ceases to be a Psyker, whether he is in a mixed unit or not and only certain conditions make other units Psyker when a Psyker joins them, as this isn't the issue at hand it doesn't matter at this point. Please, read carefully next time, no more assumptions.

The Psyker is still a Psyker, but the unit itself is not a Psyker, you would still do that Psykers Mastery level unless you find a ruling that states otherwise.

Zodiark wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
How? Does he stop being a Psyker? I see no ruling that states that the Psyker stops being a Psyker because he is in another unit.

"Each player then adds up the Mastery Levels of all the Psyker units they currently have on the tabletop" Direct quote.

The Psyker in a mixed unit doesn't lose his Mastery Levels if he is in a unit so you would count as normal

Per that quote, you ad up the mastery levels of your psyker units. You just said that the IC in a non-psyker unit is not a psyker unit. So you wouldn't add his mastery level.

I did not say he was a non-psyker unit, do NOT put words in my mouth sir.

You didn't? What does the following mean? (Underlined for emphasis)

Zodiark wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

katana100 wrote:
So by what your saying a tactical squad becuase one model has a flamer in it is a flamer unit or becuaee a model has zealot it is a zealot unit or even becuase it is a IC in the unit it is a IC unit not a unit with a flamer in or a character with the zealot or IC rule.

No. By what I'm saying, any unit with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood rules is a Psyker Unit. Because that's what the rule on page 22 says.

That was a direct response to your statement that Brotherhood units are the only thing that can be called a Psyker Unit. That statement is incorrect. Brotherhood units are Psyker Units. Vehicles with the Psychic Pilot rule are Psyker Units. Independant Characters with the Psyker rule are Psyker Units. Units of Psykers (like Warlocks) are Psyker Units.

Whether or not a unit made up of non-psykers with an IC joined to it is a Psyker Unit is, as I have pointed out repeatedly through this thread, something that we simply do not have enough information to determine.

If you notice, the examples you provide all clearly state that they are Psyker units, but for mixed units it does not, the answer is obvious, a mixed unit would not be considered a Psyker unit.

Zodiark wrote:You do realize that Rules as Interpreted is pretty much everything you do right. The process of reading on a mental basis is all about your brain analyzing and interpreting rules, which means all you do is interpret things. Some people read and see an answer immediately while others read and think that there is some vague conspiracy afoot in which they must question everything simply because there was no direct mention of a specific instance that occurs on an infrequent basis for individuals who have a problem interpreting from the start.

There are not various ways to interpret 1+1=2. According to you, there are. This isn't some vague thing where you think "well, what did he really mean here" and assume that's what is written. What is written is what's written - your assumptions on what it means based on leaps is not written (by definition) and therefore isn't RAW despite what you said.

In the future, please cite exact quotes or at least a page and sentence when adding anything to a discussion because you have failed to do so on every account

That's a lie. You've obviously not read my post history.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zodiark wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
How? Does he stop being a Psyker? I see no ruling that states that the Psyker stops being a Psyker because he is in another unit.

"Each player then adds up the Mastery Levels of all the Psyker units they currently have on the tabletop" Direct quote.

The Psyker in a mixed unit doesn't lose his Mastery Levels if he is in a unit so you would count as normal

Per that quote, you ad up the mastery levels of your psyker units. You just said that the IC in a non-psyker unit is not a psyker unit. So you wouldn't add his mastery level.

I did not say he was a non-psyker unit, do NOT put words in my mouth sir. I said the MIXED unit was not a Psyker unit. The Psyker never ceases to be a Psyker, whether he is in a mixed unit or not and only certain conditions make other units Psyker when a Psyker joins them, as this isn't the issue at hand it doesn't matter at this point. Please, read carefully next time, no more assumptions.

The Psyker is still a Psyker, but the unit itself is not a Psyker, you would still do that Psykers Mastery level unless you find a ruling that states otherwise.

You edited, so I'll respond to it.
If the mixed unit is not a psyker unit, and only psyker units can generate warp charges, what rule is allowing you to count the psyker?

rigeld2 wrote:

Zodiark wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
How? Does he stop being a Psyker? I see no ruling that states that the Psyker stops being a Psyker because he is in another unit.

"Each player then adds up the Mastery Levels of all the Psyker units they currently have on the tabletop" Direct quote.

The Psyker in a mixed unit doesn't lose his Mastery Levels if he is in a unit so you would count as normal

Per that quote, you ad up the mastery levels of your psyker units. You just said that the IC in a non-psyker unit is not a psyker unit. So you wouldn't add his mastery level.

I did not say he was a non-psyker unit, do NOT put words in my mouth sir.

You didn't? What does the following mean? (Underlined for emphasis)

Zodiark wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

katana100 wrote:
So by what your saying a tactical squad becuase one model has a flamer in it is a flamer unit or becuaee a model has zealot it is a zealot unit or even becuase it is a IC in the unit it is a IC unit not a unit with a flamer in or a character with the zealot or IC rule.

No. By what I'm saying, any unit with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot or Brotherhood rules is a Psyker Unit. Because that's what the rule on page 22 says.

That was a direct response to your statement that Brotherhood units are the only thing that can be called a Psyker Unit. That statement is incorrect. Brotherhood units are Psyker Units. Vehicles with the Psychic Pilot rule are Psyker Units. Independant Characters with the Psyker rule are Psyker Units. Units of Psykers (like Warlocks) are Psyker Units.

Whether or not a unit made up of non-psykers with an IC joined to it is a Psyker Unit is, as I have pointed out repeatedly through this thread, something that we simply do not have enough information to determine.

If you notice, the examples you provide all clearly state that they are Psyker units, but for mixed units it does not, the answer is obvious, a mixed unit would not be considered a Psyker unit.

Zodiark wrote:You do realize that Rules as Interpreted is pretty much everything you do right. The process of reading on a mental basis is all about your brain analyzing and interpreting rules, which means all you do is interpret things. Some people read and see an answer immediately while others read and think that there is some vague conspiracy afoot in which they must question everything simply because there was no direct mention of a specific instance that occurs on an infrequent basis for individuals who have a problem interpreting from the start.

There are not various ways to interpret 1+1=2. According to you, there are. This isn't some vague thing where you think "well, what did he really mean here" and assume that's what is written. What is written is what's written - your assumptions on what it means based on leaps is not written (by definition) and therefore isn't RAW despite what you said.

In the future, please cite exact quotes or at least a page and sentence when adding anything to a discussion because you have failed to do so on every account

That's a lie. You've obviously not read my post history.

Reading comprehension, work on it. The MIXED unit is not a Psyker, but the Psyker never stops being a Psyker, remember he is still a unit in his own right, how many times must we run around in circles before you get this.

Nevermind, I'm done. Play it how you want, I'll play it how I want, we can both be right and wrong until GW says otherwise.

Also, I've debated with you on two separate threads and about to be a 3rd if I decide to answer your weak argument and you have added facts less than 10% of your posts. You in fact ask for citations more than you say anything else, yet you provide extremely little on your own.

Zodiark wrote:
Reading comprehension, work on it. The MIXED unit is not a Psyker, but the Psyker never stops being a Psyker, remember he is still a unit in his own right, how many times must we run around in circles before you get this.

You've never proven this. In fact, it's been proven incorrect. The citations are through the threads.

Also, I've debated with you on two separate threads and about to be a 3rd if I decide to answer your weak argument and you have added facts less than 10% of your posts. You in fact ask for citations more than you say anything else, yet you provide extremely little on your own.

Because recently by the time I get involved in a thread all the relevant citations have been made. I ask for citations because someone (like you) asserts something as fact without supporting it with a citation. So I can't add anything as far as citations go, but others that disagree and haven't cited why absolutely can add something as far as citations go.

Also, would you mind stopping the personal attacks? They truly aren't warranted - I've been nothing but polite to you.

Zodiark wrote:
The MIXED unit is not a Psyker, but the Psyker never stops being a Psyker, remember he is still a unit in his own right, how many times must we run around in circles before you get this.

The psychic phase rules tell you to count the mastery levels of your psyker units, not psykers.

Imsaniak, he's still insisting the psyker is his own unit.
Never mind that the rules specifically state he BECOMES a unit of 1 again in the phase after the unit he's in is killed. Cause you know.... statements like "I was a doctor. Then I became a doctor" make total sense in his point of view

emmagine wrote:
Imsaniak, he's still insisting the psyker is his own unit.
Never mind that the rules specifically state he BECOMES a unit of 1 again in the phase after the unit he's in is killed. Cause you know.... statements like "I was a doctor. Then I became a doctor" make total sense in his point of view

As was stated to me in a game in which I was royally thrashed by a GK player and I asked him how BoP works.

The unit with BoP in it becomes a Psyker unit with a mastery level of 1. The Psyker does not lose his mastery level, ever. So I have a Librarian for example with a mastery level of 2 in a group with BoP with a mastery level of 1, the total would be mastery level of 3 because you add up the ML of all Psykers on the board and a BoP unit counts as a Psyker unit as per rules.

-edited by insaniak. Please see Dakka's Rule #1-

You add up the ML of Psyker *units* on the board.
And your example has literally nothing to do with the current discussion.

HIWPI:
The problematic definition of a 'psychic unit' is there simply so the authors don't have to keep saying 'select a psyker, or a brotherhood of psykers unit, or a vehicle with the psychic pilot special rule...' every time. But, their clarification backfired.

IMO, the rules are intended so that each psyker/unit/pilot is selected separately and can cast their spells separately. This means that
a) If multiple psykers in the same unit have the same spell, they can each attempt to cast it
b) Perils/benefits are not conferred to other non-psyker models in the unit, or models in the unit not part of the brotherhood.
c) you 'drill down' to the most atomised view of psykers possible - essentially, whatever individual units appear on your army list.

I think that if you don't do that, you have all kinds of problems as the 'psyker unit' expands to include
- mixed units with psykers and non-psykers: this doesn't even count as a psyker unit according to RAW and thus can't generate WC or cast powers.
- mixed units with psykers and brotherhood of psykers can calculating mastery levels.
- powers which affect 'the psyker' when he is in a unit
- allocating perils wounds to non-casting models in the unit

Trasvi wrote:
HIWPI:
The problematic definition of a 'psychic unit' is there simply so the authors don't have to keep saying 'select a psyker, or a brotherhood of psykers unit, or a vehicle with the psychic pilot special rule...' every time. But, their clarification backfired.

IMO, the rules are intended so that each psyker/unit/pilot is selected separately and can cast their spells separately. This means that
a) If multiple psykers in the same unit have the same spell, they can each attempt to cast it
b) Perils/benefits are not conferred to other non-psyker models in the unit, or models in the unit not part of the brotherhood.
c) you 'drill down' to the most atomised view of psykers possible - essentially, whatever individual units appear on your army list.

I think that if you don't do that, you have all kinds of problems as the 'psyker unit' expands to include
- mixed units with psykers and non-psykers: this doesn't even count as a psyker unit according to RAW and thus can't generate WC or cast powers.
- mixed units with psykers and brotherhood of psykers can calculating mastery levels.
- powers which affect 'the psyker' when he is in a unit
- allocating perils wounds to non-casting models in the unit

This is exactly my point. I completely agree. Well said.

Agreed as well. I fully believe that is the RAI, but that the GW writers F'ed up by using the word unit when they attempted to write it down. Thus RAW is broken.

I fully intend to play according to Trasvi's logic, and it seems likely that most Tourney's will agree.

Trasvi wrote:
HIWPI:
The problematic definition of a 'psychic unit' is there simply so the authors don't have to keep saying 'select a psyker, or a brotherhood of psykers unit, or a vehicle with the psychic pilot special rule...' every time. But, their clarification backfired.

IMO, the rules are intended so that each psyker/unit/pilot is selected separately and can cast their spells separately. This means that
a) If multiple psykers in the same unit have the same spell, they can each attempt to cast it
b) Perils/benefits are not conferred to other non-psyker models in the unit, or models in the unit not part of the brotherhood.
c) you 'drill down' to the most atomised view of psykers possible - essentially, whatever individual units appear on your army list.

I think that if you don't do that, you have all kinds of problems as the 'psyker unit' expands to include
- mixed units with psykers and non-psykers: this doesn't even count as a psyker unit according to RAW and thus can't generate WC or cast powers.
- mixed units with psykers and brotherhood of psykers can calculating mastery levels.
- powers which affect 'the psyker' when he is in a unit
- allocating perils wounds to non-casting models in the unit

Totally agree and was the original point I myself and others mentioned earlier except for this part: "mixed units with psykers and non-psykers: this doesn't even count as a psyker unit according to RAW and thus can't generate WC or cast powers." The way I read it, the way I see GK players player it and Daemons for that matter, the Psyker is still a Psyker, even in another unit as he does not lose his Psyker status, so you would still apply his mastery levels for WC generation and you can still select him as an individual within the unit to resolve his psychic power.

This point is hotly in contention and will most likely need an FAQ as the sides are two entrenched to agree.