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Hazards, are as good as ever, I'm pleased to announce. I love them, they are very fun.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Hazards, are as good as ever, I'm pleased to announce. I love them, they are very fun.

You mean "not good at all"?

They were never any good. everything about them is overpriced to hell and back, then to narnia.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Hazards, are as good as ever, I'm pleased to announce. I love them, they are very fun.

You mean "not good at all"?

They were never any good. everything about them is overpriced to hell and back, then to narnia.

I don't know about you, but I find them quite good. It's all about how you use them I suppose. They are a bit expensive, I will agree, but they are quite versatile, and fit in a FA slot, which I don't use in any case (I find pathfinders always die to quickly to be any use to me, and it's either that or piranhas).

i thought the general consensus about FW suits were they were utter garbage? ive literally never heard anything good about ANY tau FW outside the barracuda/remora.

Models are epic though. I use an XV89 for my non-buffmander commander and Shas'O R'Myre or whatever the gak his name was for my buffmander. Lovely models. Wish the normal Crisis suits were that cool.

The biggest issue I have with the XV-9 is that you have to buy the suit with a single weapon load out. Instead of selling the body and weapons separately or with all options.

The hammerhead variants are terrible since they're still 2 weapons, the kroot options are a terrible joke (majority T3 MC should have the author of it shot), and others are just too expensive to be considered worth it.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
ive literally never heard anything good about ANY tau FW outside the barracuda/remora.

Never heard of tetras then? they are quite nice to have for a mobile army.

As for Rmy'r and Ralai, both are actually pretty good. not cheesy, but good.

Rmy'r is all out there with random upgrades, but costs surprisingly little when looking at the prices of comparable wargear, while Ralai is pretty much an all-purpose glass cannon (liturally all purpose, he deals nasty damage to nearly target in the game, only elite low model count Sv2+ guys are safe.)



As for other stuff, kroot are as said a bad joke, the sensor and gun turrent variants are overpriced, the superheavies are overpriced (even the mere 300 point orca. you do NOT want to give the enemy the benefits of fighting a LoW for THAT), the hammerhead guns are subpar, the TX-42 are overpriced too (pattern?), heavy gun drones are in the wrong slot, experimental suits are AGAIN overpriced, gue'vesa are useless (though they take the crown for cheapest unit in the game after minimal inquisition warbands at mere 25 points for minimum squad)
As for the HS riptide, after the change he is...workable but not impressive.


So yea, FW have us with tetras and barracudas as the good guys, ralai and rmyr as the "decent", remoras and heavytides as "workable". everything else either costs too much to be of note, or is just bad outright.

Quick question about the Tau tanks / skimmers to better understand the changes of v7 on you guys:

For shooting skimmers, how much does jinking reduce your firepower on the next turn, in realistic scenarios including markerlights and all that ?

XV-9s aren't bad, they're just too expensive to be more useful than XV-8s.

Hammerhead with missile pods aren't a bad AA platform, when your missiles won't expend themselves. I'd rather a Barracuda, though.

I've been running FE suits list (fusion mark'o, some drones in an all fusion crisis / target lock team, three double burst suit team, double missile crisis by two, double flamer crisis by two, HBC ECPA tide, ion/fusion tide, another of the same in a FBSC with HYMP/SMS sides, a Skyray and a bunker with Comms relay).

I've been loving 7th and loving the jump-shoot-jump army. Much more fun to play than my necrons were. I can see why people get hooked on eldar - mobility is cool! Sneaky is cool! I reckon if I can develop better deployment strategies (at the moment I just start the b/sides, riptides and skyray in reserves every game and then drop the suits turn two) and figure a way to help deepstrike (maybe swapping commander for farsight and rethinking marker support delivery?) then I reckon I have a serviceable win-some-but-lose-some tournament list.

Not feeling lost in 7th with tau, but it ain't seercouncil or summoning star. I guess?

Tau got some nerfs and lost the MC/IC combo, but otherwise, it's still a very strong codex.

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Uh, how the hell do you make a non-HQ unit your warlord?

now any model with the Character type can become your warlord. If you don't have any Character model, any other can become your warlord.
So any 'vre suit or 'ui foot soldier can become your warlord. Kroot Shaper as well

What page of the Rulebook does this say its on? Might want to try that tomorrow.

The one that is telling you how to pick your warlord.
Under no part of it does it say it has to be an HQ. just a character.
Not even an independent one.

Did crisis suits lose the ability to take two of the same weapons (and be able to shoot them seperatly) instead of having to twinlink them? I don't see anywhere in the 7th ed. FAQ that allows us to do that?

 mangrove yeti wrote:
Did crisis suits lose the ability to take two of the same weapons (and be able to shoot them seperatly) instead of having to twinlink them? I don't see anywhere in the 7th ed. FAQ that allows us to do that?

The FAQ was a clarification, it's still doable RAW. You are given the option to take Single Versions of weapons, or a double Twinlinked version. No where is buying two single options prohibited or buying the Twinlinked version mandatory.

You simply declare, I'm buying a Single Missile pod for 15pt and one slot, and I'm buying another single missile pod for 15pts and a second slot.

Also, this probably should have gone in YMDC.

OK cool, thanks!

Since its relevant in this thread i'll post it.

My FLGS usually runs 2k lists. I used to run 4 10man squads of bonded firewarriors with shas'ui and ML/TLock. I have since cut two units, filled the other two to 12 (11 if i use ethereals), and added in 2 devilfish with dpods and spines.

I am pleasently shocked how well those things are doing. My last 2k list was heavy armor themed. Was actually intending to field 5 piranha, 2 devilfish, a skyray, and a hammerhead but i accidently left my hammerhead in a box i dont bring with me so i ended up swapping it for a riptide (same cost since i had longstrike). The devilfish give me a very nasty up close SUPER DAKKA rate of fire on something (23 FW under 15" with the ethereal's extra dakka "spell" = 69 shots lol giggity) and theyre durable enough with the 3+ jink that they just do not die. In five games since i started using them, i have not lost a single one. Also make excellent Tankshock platforms once i disembark the drones/FW and theres no nearby objectives to steal.

Actually tempted to start bringing a third.

7th has made devilfish stupid tough. The main downside to jink doesn't really hurt devilfish much thanks to the TL on the drones it comes with. Just played a game with an all mechanized and suit list and I nearly tabled my opponent on turn 2. He conceded with nothing left but a flyer and an immobile dread. We both decided afterwords that all the vehicles just required too much firepower to stop for him to effectively deal with my army.

I don't see how being twin linked makes snapshotting not a problem.

Twin linked doesn't make snap shooting not a problem it makes it less of a problem. This is because you have twice the chance to get a 6 to hit.

And a single marker light token boosts your odds of hitting to 5/9.

 Punisher Gatling Cannon wrote:
Twin linked doesn't make snap shooting not a problem it makes it less of a problem. This is because you have twice the chance to get a 6 to hit.

Exactly. Guess I should have been more clear. Basically what I'm getting at is having a skimmer transport with a 3+ is very nice.

Uh, problem with the drone thing.

Jink does not affect passengers. Gun drones are a passenger that must fire at the same target of the vehicle. This means a fish that moves 6" can fire drones and bursts at full BS, but a piranha moving 12" fires the drones via snapshots.
Also means they dont count for weapon destroyed.

Dont believe me? Read the page on drones word for word so you dont accidentally skip it. They count as passengers, which is awesome for Fish bad for Piranha. And no they dont take max capacity since theyre outside the vehicle.

They're still pretty tough, but the problem is they're still very expensive. Though now that they're Objective Secured scoring units I guess that does help to justify them. 105 points for a 12/11/10 skimmer that doesn't take dangerous terrain tests and a 3+ cover save isn't too bad, especially since it'd probably be ignored for the most part.

Tank shocking a unit to clear an objective and steal it does sound like a fun thing to do now though.

How is everyone dealing with T2 assaulting armies? In a recent tournament I had a tough time against a CSM spawn star and a Daemon list with tons of Khornedogs, and a screamerstar with invisibility shenanigans thrown in. I would imagine new orks with their wonky waagh rules could get a bottom T1 charge off with massed trucks.

The point beng...is assault back? And how do we deal with it? I play enclaves but castling up is almost never a good idea, and I'm not fast enough to get away from the quicker assault elements of CSM and Daemons.

Thoughts?

Is assault back? I don't think so personally.
There are some units that happen to be fast and strong enough to make it to assault that they can make it work despite the rules, but for the most part no I don't think assault is all that viable.

As for dealing with early assault, the best ways are probably to hope for some marker light hits first in overwatch so the rest of your units can hit the opponent hard enough to knock em out of range. Otherwise load everything you can in transports so even if they do reach you, the vehicle dies and not the unit inside.

 TNT925 wrote:
Is assault back? I don't think so personally.
There are some units that happen to be fast and strong enough to make it to assault that they can make it work despite the rules, but for the most part no I don't think assault is all that viable.

As for dealing with early assault, the best ways are probably to hope for some marker light hits first in overwatch so the rest of your units can hit the opponent hard enough to knock em out of range. Otherwise load everything you can in transports so even if they do reach you, the vehicle dies and not the unit inside.

Most armies aren't going to have that many fast units.
Just throw a disposable unit in the way to block their path.

I would warn against beleiving that. I have been playing a Chaos Space Marines force and now a Dark Eldar force that positively crushes things in combat, can circumvent your blockers in many cases and uses close combat as its primary (though not exclusive) anti-vehicle measure since vehicles are harder to pummel into submission now. In the Dark eldar build, it has three units that charge round 2 if not before with ferocity. I can wreck four Wave Serpents in round 2 with relatively little chance of failure or have 3 Riptide tied up interminably if not dead by round 2.

I'm seeing more hammers in armies now. Im seeing late game turn arounds in Maelstrom missions also from having a melee presence. I think its worth reconsidering. Melee is making a very positive showing for me.

Is assault back? I don't think so personally.
There are some units that happen to be fast and strong enough to make it to assault that they can make it work despite the rules, but for the most part no I don't think assault is all that viable.

As for dealing with early assault, the best ways are probably to hope for some marker light hits first in overwatch so the rest of your units can hit the opponent hard enough to knock em out of range. Otherwise load everything you can in transports so even if they do reach you, the vehicle dies and not the unit inside.

Well.

I fought Tau recently. Wanted to try a Dark eldar idea out. Three hammers in the Force. Round 1, I was on his doorstep with every transport I had.

He spent his units killing mostly 3 HP hull transports. and that was fine. the next round, I had his Broadsides and two Riptides in melee, his Fire Warriors Crisped with Liquifiers and his leader charged by Trueborn of all things. The game was effectively over when I didn't finish most of them off the round of the charge. Perfect timing. Safe inside their hugs.

and while all this was going on I quietly bounced around free to take whatever objectives i pleased with a few little back field units.

Im noit saying it couldnt have gone different. But I am telling you that I dictated his choices entirely. And thats a statement worth mentioning.

melee that is slower has a lesser advantage. Blood Angels deep striking in still have to take that round of shooting. but when you can effectively pull off a round one deep strike and effectively stay IN your drop pod...good times. Goooood times. I bet the Space Wolves would give their left nut for a drop pod that works like that.

Tau players are getting lazy and sure of themselves and the Ork Horde Detachment and othe things are making me think its time to respect melee a little more.

I am primarily a Tau General. But I play all kinds of armies and I am just cautioning against too much over generalization on this subject. Assault armies have evolved and rhino rushes are better, Raider Rush's are downright frightening and whats inside is not friendly.

 The Shrike wrote:
How is everyone dealing with T2 assaulting armies? In a recent tournament I had a tough time against a CSM spawn star and a Daemon list with tons of Khornedogs, and a screamerstar with invisibility shenanigans thrown in. I would imagine new orks with their wonky waagh rules could get a bottom T1 charge off with massed trucks.

The point beng...is assault back? And how do we deal with it? I play enclaves but castling up is almost never a good idea, and I'm not fast enough to get away from the quicker assault elements of CSM and Daemons.

Thoughts?

I run a 8-10 drone screen for just this purpose. It provides a nice solid front and can be long enough to trip a lot Supporting Fire to hammer that early charge. And lets face it drones are as good or better in melee than FWs. Heck had a shield drones tie up wraiths and save an ethereal's butt.