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 liquidjoshi wrote:
To be fair, I've been generally disappointed by the Dakka community as of late. I think 7th has drawn the worst out of a lot of us, and it isn't usually this bad. Still, it does suck to be a legion player right now. Or Chaos in general.

Considering grabbing a team to run up a custom codex closer to the variety we should have.

I'm not one to typically be adversarial but with what I'm being given, I don't think I have a choice. It's either someone who doesn't play my game telling me I'm doing it wrong or I should just be happy with what I got, or like-mindeds who are having the same idea.

Screw it, then, if that's the point we're at. Beardies v. Gamers? GW v. Unofficial? Tournament v. Everything else? Fine. Have your sport the way it is, and the spectators will go somewhere else.

On that note, anyone have a Chaos Gaming Club in Texas anywhere? Granted, I'm not going to be here for much longer, but hey! Chaos Gaming Clubs anywhere? Might as well start looking now.

And on the note of division, I already had to tell Riptide players to bugger off. Looks like I'm going to have to be that much more discerning about everything else now as well.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

Agreed, and while I do that, here is a commercial of what's going on in the meantime. I've got kids that love this stuff too. And not just one that I see on the weekends or anything, but I've got a sizable household, extremely limited cash flow and time to spend (I am disabled), and all that comes with. So jumping between hobbies is crazy expensive at the end of the day, and I barely have enough life as it is without having to worry about what the next edition of something is going to look like. I digress though, for a demographic like mine, this is an extremely disturbing trend.

C'est la vie, I suppose. Such is Life.

If it's just you and your kids (and his friends/cousins), then stick to 6th edition and enjoy yourselves. Even play with points if you want to mess with balance and such. Make it your own.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:
To be fair, I've been generally disappointed by the Dakka community as of late. I think 7th has drawn the worst out of a lot of us, and it isn't usually this bad. Still, it does suck to be a legion player right now. Or Chaos in general.

Considering grabbing a team to run up a custom codex closer to the variety we should have.

I'm not one to typically be adversarial but with what I'm being given, I don't think I have a choice. It's either someone who doesn't play my game telling me I'm doing it wrong or I should just be happy with what I got, or like-mindeds who are having the same idea.

Screw it, then, if that's the point we're at. Beardies v. Gamers? GW v. Unofficial? Tournament v. Everything else? Fine. Have your sport the way it is, and the spectators will go somewhere else.

On that note, anyone have a Chaos Gaming Club in Texas anywhere? Granted, I'm not going to be here for much longer, but hey! Chaos Gaming Clubs anywhere? Might as well start looking now.

And on the note of division, I already had to tell Riptide players to bugger off. Looks like I'm going to have to be that much more discerning about everything else now as well.

Oh I completely agree, don't get me wrong. SM players waltzing in giving us Chaos players the business, people assuming it's Helldrake complaints... yeah, this thread is pretty much a monument to shameless bigotry.

All we can do really is make do. And, well, hope GW stop fething us over.

 Melissia wrote:
If you do make a custom codex, be prepared for a lot of hate. People hate new things unless GW introduces them (and usually even then).

I dunno really, the CSM fandex in proposed rules got nice reception.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
shameless bigotry.

Seriously? In a thread about plastic miniatures?

Bigotry?

Maybe you should go get some ice cream. Or have a snickers. You're not you when you're hungry.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
If you do make a custom codex, be prepared for a lot of hate. People hate new things unless GW introduces them (and usually even then).

I dunno really, the CSM fandex in proposed rules got nice reception.

To be fair, it's on proposed rules where people are far more accepting of such ideas and is largely influenced by people that like and want something similar from CSM. The problem more comes from strangers and even your friends when you reveal this new fandex.

 Blacksails wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:
shameless bigotry.

Seriously? In a thread about plastic miniatures?

Bigotry?

Maybe you should go get some ice cream. Or have a snickers. You're not you when you're hungry.

Have an exalt!

I agree bigotry is far too strong a word, but I get what he's saying.

That CSM Fandex does look pretty nice, but some people will give you grief about using it because it isn't 'official.'

I still can't really understand the logic behind the Price of the Mauler and Forgefiend. Seriously I loved the models ,but then actually looked at the rules and was like Welp.


Also, the biggest change i want is that for Chaos and Chaos Daemon Marks to Match up


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's really really dumb they don/t, Also Helbrutes should be Daemons.

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
If you do make a custom codex, be prepared for a lot of hate. People hate new things unless GW introduces them (and usually even then).

I dunno really, the CSM fandex in proposed rules got nice reception.

To be fair, it's on proposed rules where people are far more accepting of such ideas and is largely influenced by people that like and want something similar from CSM. The problem more comes from strangers and even your friends when you reveal this new fandex.

I guess I am just lucky with a community who agrees unchanged rules = stupid.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I dunno really, the CSM fandex in proposed rules got nice reception.

Maybe the culture of Proposed Rules has changed in the past couple years then. I remember there being a ton of trolls there, myself.

 Blacksails wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:
shameless bigotry.

Seriously? In a thread about plastic miniatures?

Bigotry?

Entitled white guys claiming other people are bigoted against them is always funny

 Melissia wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
I dunno really, the CSM fandex in proposed rules got nice reception.

Maybe the culture of Proposed Rules has changed in the past couple years then. I remember there being a ton of trolls there, myself.

You can always go check. First-hand information is always best.

Hollismason wrote:


Also, the biggest change i want is that for Chaos and Chaos Daemon Marks to Match up.

I believe they do?

Daemon of x is the same, or v similar, in both books. CD book doesn't have marks.

 azreal13 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:


Also, the biggest change i want is that for Chaos and Chaos Daemon Marks to Match up.

I believe they do?

Daemon of x is the same, or v similar, in both books. CD book doesn't have marks.

Not quite. The Daemon of Tzeentch is actually different I believe by one rule.

 Melissia wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
I dunno really, the CSM fandex in proposed rules got nice reception.

Maybe the culture of Proposed Rules has changed in the past couple years then. I remember there being a ton of trolls there, myself.

 Blacksails wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:
shameless bigotry.

Seriously? In a thread about plastic miniatures?

Bigotry?

Entitled white guys claiming other people are bigoted against them is always funny

It would be funny if it weren't true. Anyone else notice that racism is applicable to everyone except white males now? How interesting a phenomena.

On that note, there are far more white males who aren't entitled or feel entitled that get swept up in that bracket just as easily as anyone else. For further stats and evidence to this standard, one need only look at the rate of incarceration betwen Males and Females, then between Ethnicities. What you find in the end is that males are discriminated against, something like 100 to 1. But then we can always lean on the misnomer that "the (white) man runs everything." Sorry, that isn't as true as it used to be anymore. It's "the wealthy man" that runs everything and believes it is entitled to everything. Racism has nothing to do with it. That is just ignorance excusing itself for not realizing that class-ism is what is truly bleeding our species.

Right up there with desensitizing people to things they would not tolerate otherwise, like the idea that bigotry, in any fashion, is funny. Whether it be for or against your better interests.

Sorry to get all philosophical here, but this is where we are getting too. People grown up around misnomers anecdotally thrown out like the 2000's are the 1900's in any way shape or form.

In conclusion, yeah, there is a lot of bigotry still going on, and yes it happens here in the Miniwargaming/40k world as well. It happens when one group of people gets together to decide it's going to be better than the next group of people, and as I said, that is how stupid it has gotten. That people group and be bigoted without any real difference to separate them from their own bigoted opinion. How else do you explain the discrepancy between Imperial players and Chaos players?

Chaos will be fine. The increased difficulty will be a welcomed challenge that forces everyone to stop spamming dragons and nurgle (hopefully). It was getting old.

This edition is the most open and option heavy yet. This is the time to act, not mope. Stop whining.

This is a thread about plastic miniatures; specifically of the spikey power armoured variety.

Amazingly, not a thread about bigotry, racism, or anything remotely similar.

I pointed out the comical absurdity that a poster equating the woes of CSM players to being bigots.

It should have ended there.

crimson_caesar wrote:
Chaos will be fine. The increased difficulty will be a welcomed challenge that forces everyone to stop spamming dragons and nurgle (hopefully). It was getting old.

This edition is the most open and option heavy yet. This is the time to act, not mope. Stop whining.

of course good sir, your post has opened my eyes, i will wipe my tears, learn some skills like your magnificent self and start having fun immediately

crimson_caesar wrote:
Chaos will be fine. The increased difficulty will be a welcomed challenge that forces everyone to stop spamming dragons and nurgle (hopefully). It was getting old.

This edition is the most open and option heavy yet. This is the time to act, not mope. Stop whining.

As people have mentioned, the reason people spammed dragons and nurgle is because everything else is far inferior. I doubt the lists are going to change much (for pure CSM anyways,) but they'll be a bit less effective/harder to use.

 StarTrotter wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:


Also, the biggest change i want is that for Chaos and Chaos Daemon Marks to Match up.

I believe they do?

Daemon of x is the same, or v similar, in both books. CD book doesn't have marks.

Not quite. The Daemon of Tzeentch is actually different I believe by one rule.

Dude, come on, surely that counts as v similar?!!

 azreal13 wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:


Also, the biggest change i want is that for Chaos and Chaos Daemon Marks to Match up.

I believe they do?

Daemon of x is the same, or v similar, in both books. CD book doesn't have marks.

Not quite. The Daemon of Tzeentch is actually different I believe by one rule.

Dude, come on, surely that counts as v similar?!!

*facedesk* Actually yeah sorry for that . Went for same in interpretation. My apologies for that one!

 Blacksails wrote:
This is a thread about plastic miniatures; specifically of the spikey power armoured variety.

Amazingly, not a thread about bigotry, racism, or anything remotely similar.

I pointed out the comical absurdity that a poster equating the woes of CSM players to being bigots.

It should have ended there.

Minimizing a position is the first step to discrediting without analysis. It's also a ploy by the bigoted. And I revert to "desensitizing." Would anyone even recognize a bigot if they saw one? Because saying stuff like "Stop crying and start dying," is pretty bigotted seeing as how no thought is being given to the person being told to "Stop crying and start dying."

It should have ended there, if only someone with a stand on the issue didn't have their own position as well. You think it's comical absurdity that a CSM player feels ousted by a game or group of gamers? I say it's profoundly offensive for anyone to cast of another persons concerns so readily without speculation. One position has you laughing until you are being laughed at and the other turns its back on the cruel idea on the outset.

Amazingly, the name of this thread is "CSM - what are we supposed to do now?" as if someone were asking for help about how to continue being CSM in this climate and atmsophere, as if the individual in question (or individuals who share this sentiment) are feeling somewhat downtrodden and discriminated against. And can you blame us with shennanigans like "Play something else!" or "You should stop crying!" coming from people who DON'T share our sentiments?

Taking a big logic leap here, you know, I'm sure the Jews wish they would've said something about bigotry during WW2. But then I'm sure some nice SS officer came up and said "Oh stop crying, it's not THAT bad. See look! I've got a turnip!"

And while you may think this is just a game, it stops being a game when people take their gaming behavior and apply it to the real world. But then I guess I'm just being to critical. Not like this has real world implications or anything, as I have just illustrated.

Back to "It's just a game and plastic models." How bout ya'll stop telling us we're crying over a game now since it's just a game and no one is actually crying? Unless you've got some kind of extra-sensory perception that lets you see peoples emotions through the internet.

You clearly missed the part where this thread wasn't about bigotry.

If you care passionately enough about the issue, start a thread in OT. Otherwise, feel free to return to the topic.

On topic myself, did someone post a link for a fandex?

It was mentioned, I don't think it was linked. I believe This is the one mentioned.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
This is a thread about plastic miniatures; specifically of the spikey power armoured variety.

Amazingly, not a thread about bigotry, racism, or anything remotely similar.

I pointed out the comical absurdity that a poster equating the woes of CSM players to being bigots.

It should have ended there.

Minimizing a position is the first step to discrediting without analysis. It's also a ploy by the bigoted. And I revert to "desensitizing." Would anyone even recognize a bigot if they saw one? Because saying stuff like "Stop crying and start dying," is pretty bigotted seeing as how no thought is being given to the person being told to "Stop crying and start dying."

It should have ended there, if only someone with a stand on the issue didn't have their own position as well. You think it's comical absurdity that a CSM player feels ousted by a game or group of gamers? I say it's profoundly offensive for anyone to cast of another persons concerns so readily without speculation. One position has you laughing until you are being laughed at and the other turns its back on the cruel idea on the outset.

Amazingly, the name of this thread is "CSM - what are we supposed to do now?" as if someone were asking for help about how to continue being CSM in this climate and atmsophere, as if the individual in question (or individuals who share this sentiment) are feeling somewhat downtrodden and discriminated against. And can you blame us with shennanigans like "Play something else!" or "You should stop crying!" coming from people who DON'T share our sentiments?

Taking a big logic leap here, you know, I'm sure the Jews wish they would've said something about bigotry during WW2. But then I'm sure some nice SS officer came up and said "Oh stop crying, it's not THAT bad. See look! I've got a turnip!"

And while you may think this is just a game, it stops being a game when people take their gaming behavior and apply it to the real world. But then I guess I'm just being to critical. Not like this has real world implications or anything, as I have just illustrated.

Back to "It's just a game and plastic models." How bout ya'll stop telling us we're crying over a game now since it's just a game and no one is actually crying? Unless you've got some kind of extra-sensory perception that lets you see peoples emotions through the internet.

Whoa whoa whoa BAAAAAAD comparison. Look, it really hasn't been anywhere close to that bad. Heck, I remember a time where a CSM discussion of the codex came up and somebody said your codex is okay because you have the heldrake you cheesemeisters so shut up. Nobody has even touched that, at worst some people have said they enjoy their codex. Really, at this point there isn't much to say. The codex sucks, 40k the game has many flaws from imbalances both internal and external with certain armies not existing anymore, some basically updated on a footnote (and I will blindly hold hope that the 7 or so missing SoB models = a new SoB update), and certain armies that become inferior and fail to represent what they should be from Orks sucking at CC to CSM being CSM to Nids to etc. At worst we can quit the game for a time, at best we can houserule things and try to have fun that way.

The fandex has its flaws and isn't nearly done but it has potential.

 erick99 wrote:
It was mentioned, I don't think it was linked. I believe This is the one mentioned.

Interesting. Not someone I recognize, but I'll take a look.

I remember being quite fond of JustDave's CSM fan dex back in 5th.

 erick99 wrote:

crimson_caesar wrote:
Chaos will be fine. The increased difficulty will be a welcomed challenge that forces everyone to stop spamming dragons and nurgle (hopefully). It was getting old.

This edition is the most open and option heavy yet. This is the time to act, not mope. Stop whining.

As people have mentioned, the reason people spammed dragons and nurgle is because everything else is far inferior. I doubt the lists are going to change much (for pure CSM anyways,) but they'll be a bit less effective/harder to use.

My hopes are high. There are a lot of new rules/additions we can take advantage of.
-Multiple Detachments|| we have strong HQs
-Increased Vehicle Durability
-the psychic phase|| many options like spell familiars
-Everything scores|| we can either be campy with troops choices or aggressive with few of them
-Challenges changed|| makes us more deadly in CC
-Maelstrom Missions||Discourages camping in general (come at us Tau and IG)

I think there are many different good pieces to the new BRB that we just haven't pieced together. Coming up with the answers will take time, no need to give up.

Oh I agree CSM improved a bit with some of the new rules, but so did everyone else. The spell familiars are a big plus, and unique. Vehicle boosts help everyone else just as much though (imo.)

But many of ours have 5++s and IWND. For 125 Points, a Maulerfiend seems like a steal.

Actually the Maelstrom Missions arguably hurt us. We aren't a mobile army for the most part. It's a massive buff to mobile armies particularly Eldar and even SM.

Challenges overall got a little buff. Then again if the enemy wins in challenges well we get hurt more. That and the DP got a huge nerf really.

Everything scores but so does everything the enemy does and objective secured means no more contestation.

The psychic phase is certainly, overall, a win for us unless spell familiars get nerfed.

I really dunno about the vehicle durability. For starters, all vehicles got buffed. Secondly, it still doesn't solve the main problem. Glanced to death.

Multiple Detatchements, meh, our only real nasty HQs are Typhus (more for zombies), Nurgle bikers, Juggerlords, and maybe a summoning DP with the flamer of doom (since black mace got nerfed)

crimson_caesar wrote:
But many of ours have 5++s and IWND. For 125 Points, a Maulerfiend seems like a steal.

It certainly is better than in 6th. But against armies that rely on glancing you to death (such as serpent spam) it is still as dead as before. And those serpents are also now harder to kill.