Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Malacdor shows one of the founders of the inquisition the first of a series of many Adamantium steel doors beneath the palace, with apparently each the size of an imperator Titan. The author describes Imperators as 100+ meters so.....damn.......
And aparenty legions of greater daemons, and untold numbers of lesser daemons fighting the entirety of the Custodes behind the doors, meant to seal the breach of the throne. The Custodes keeping the Daemons from breaching.
The largest series of battles in imperial history lasting 10000 years, takes place on Terran soil, and is a complete secret.
Is it me or is this literally the sickest piece of fluff in all of 40k?

Literally fighting at the gates of hell, it would be nice to see how desperate the fighting was for the Custodes/Sisters of Silence deployed there but I think this uncovered aspect adds to its epicness since its not supposed to well-documented given its hush-hush secret project nature. Sadly, given how Black Library has handled the Heresy series I really hope they don't screw up this part with some bad deus ex machine or worse like more perpetual interference.

It's new to me that the battle has been continuing all 10,000 years.I assumed when the Emperor hooked up to the Golden Throne permanently the breach was shut. It would explain what the Custodes are doing, I guess.

I assumed that the emperor sealed the breach when the golden trhone was active, is why he was throne bound during the battle for Terra as he had to hold the breach closes to prevent incursions by deamons while the traitors laid seige from the outside.

This sounds like 300 to me. >>

A group of super-elites clogging a limited space for Daemons to punch through. But if this is the case, what is stopping a "Primal" from just reaching through the warp with one giant hand and snatching them all up, before knocking on the door with their collective heads?

Or are we going to find out the Custodes are immortals or something, and when they die, they just get back up and keep fighting.

This should be examined more closely. On that note, the Emperor couldn't have been placed on the Golden Throne during the seige because, what happened when he unclenched his keigel excercises and went to go fight Horus? What stopped the daemons from breaching the Imperial Palace then?

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
This sounds like 300 to me. >>

A group of super-elites clogging a limited space for Daemons to punch through. But if this is the case, what is stopping a "Primal" from just reaching through the warp with one giant hand and snatching them all up, before knocking on the door with their collective heads?

Or are we going to find out the Custodes are immortals or something, and when they die, they just get back up and keep fighting.

This should be examined more closely. On that note, the Emperor couldn't have been placed on the Golden Throne during the seige because, what happened when he unclenched his keigel excercises and went to go fight Horus? What stopped the daemons from breaching the Imperial Palace then?

Sounds like 300? You mean the Battle of Thermopylae, which did involve, roughly, 7000 Greeks (culminating in said battle of ~ 300 Spartans led by Leonidas, and their allies) holding off what was originally said to be 1 million men (now thought to be much less, say 150,000, which is still incredible). It broke the spirit of the Persians who were then defeated by Athens at the naval battle of Salamis and later by the Greeks at the Battle of Platea. Each time, the numerically superior Persians who beaten.

300 is the loosely based film of an actual historical event which did involve a tiny force taking on numberless hordes.

As to fighting for all eternity, by being resurrected after falling. Look no further than Valhalla. Spend all day fighting and killing, get resurrected at the end, binge drink and party all night long only to wake up and do it all again tomorrow, until the end of days.

 Maniac_nmt wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
This sounds like 300 to me. >>

A group of super-elites clogging a limited space for Daemons to punch through. But if this is the case, what is stopping a "Primal" from just reaching through the warp with one giant hand and snatching them all up, before knocking on the door with their collective heads?

Or are we going to find out the Custodes are immortals or something, and when they die, they just get back up and keep fighting.

This should be examined more closely. On that note, the Emperor couldn't have been placed on the Golden Throne during the seige because, what happened when he unclenched his keigel excercises and went to go fight Horus? What stopped the daemons from breaching the Imperial Palace then?

Sounds like 300? You mean the Battle of Thermopylae, which did involve, roughly, 7000 Greeks (culminating in said battle of ~ 300 Spartans led by Leonidas, and their allies) holding off what was originally said to be 1 million men (now thought to be much less, say 150,000, which is still incredible). It broke the spirit of the Persians who were then defeated by Athens at the naval battle of Salamis and later by the Greeks at the Battle of Platea. Each time, the numerically superior Persians who beaten.

300 is the loosely based film of an actual historical event which did involve a tiny force taking on numberless hordes.

As to fighting for all eternity, by being resurrected after falling. Look no further than Valhalla. Spend all day fighting and killing, get resurrected at the end, binge drink and party all night long only to wake up and do it all again tomorrow, until the end of days.

They need to make another movie. The 700 Thespians- Bro Where's My Respect?

Also, the battle initially involved a Greek army numbering between 5,200 and 7,000 Greeks and anywhere between 100,000 to 150,000 Persians. The Greeks achieved a kill ratio of 1:5, then on the third day most of the Greek army either retreated under orders or straight up fled, but 700 Thespians and 400 Thebans stayed behind to fight and die with the 300 Spartans.

But yeah, they killed around 20,000 Persians with a 1:5 kill ratio in melee.

Though the narrow valley, Persian mass counted for nothing, no route to flank at first, no way round just through,

The land did a lot of work for them + greeks where fighting for homes n families, alit counting on holding the line,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The custodious are tough but 10,000 years holding the line?
Surely the deamons would have erroded them down by them, they are limitless

jhe90 wrote:
Though the narrow valley, Persian mass counted for nothing, no route to flank at first, no way round just through,

The land did a lot of work for them + greeks where fighting for homes n families, alit counting on holding the line,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The custodious are tough but 10,000 years holding the line?
Surely the deamons would have erroded them down by them, they are limitless

Depends. Against Custodes? Surely not, they'd die. But something like the Eldar Solitaire would slaughter even legions of Greater Daemons if organized into a small army.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
This should be examined more closely. On that note, the Emperor couldn't have been placed on the Golden Throne during the seige because, what happened when he unclenched his keigel excercises and went to go fight Horus? What stopped the daemons from breaching the Imperial Palace then?

Malcador took his place, and the strain killed him within hours. As I recall it's hinted at the end of The Sigilite that he knows he's going to have to go through those doors one day.

It is an awesome piece of fluff. I'd like to think the war is ongoing - it would explain what the Custodes do, and what the Sisters of Silence have been up to for the last ten thousand years.

 Wyzilla wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
Though the narrow valley, Persian mass counted for nothing, no route to flank at first, no way round just through,

The land did a lot of work for them + greeks where fighting for homes n families, alit counting on holding the line,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The custodious are tough but 10,000 years holding the line?
Surely the deamons would have erroded them down by them, they are limitless

Depends. Against Custodes? Surely not, they'd die. But something like the Eldar Solitaire would slaughter even legions of Greater Daemons if organized into a small army.

But the Custodes arn't an army, they are Guards. They do not fight as one like the Astartes do, each is an individual warrior, with little sense of brotherhood or.love between them.

While I don't have the exact quote, in The First Heretic, Argel Tal mentions as much. He says something like "They do not fight as one, like the Astartes, covering each other or attacking as a squad. For all their might, they are not brothers. And only brotherhood could prevail."

So with that in mind, an army of individuals would not have the same power as that of Space Marines. Sure, each Custodes is equal to many times his number in Marines but each would fight alone, seeking to rely only on hia own power and skills. A Space Marine chapter/company/squad/Legion, would all work in concert, trying to keep their brothers alive and fight more effectively in my view.

Frankly, I'd much rather believe that that is the role of the 2nd Legion since its vanishing.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
Though the narrow valley, Persian mass counted for nothing, no route to flank at first, no way round just through,

The land did a lot of work for them + greeks where fighting for homes n families, alit counting on holding the line,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The custodious are tough but 10,000 years holding the line?
Surely the deamons would have erroded them down by them, they are limitless

Depends. Against Custodes? Surely not, they'd die. But something like the Eldar Solitaire would slaughter even legions of Greater Daemons if organized into a small army.

But the Custodes arn't an army, they are Guards. They do not fight as one like the Astartes do, each is an individual warrior, with little sense of brotherhood or.love between them.

While I don't have the exact quote, in The First Heretic, Argel Tal mentions as much. He says something like "They do not fight as one, like the Astartes, covering each other or attacking as a squad. For all their might, they are not brothers. And only brotherhood could prevail."

So with that in mind, an army of individuals would not have the same power as that of Space Marines. Sure, each Custodes is equal to many times his number in Marines but each would fight alone, seeking to rely only on hia own power and skills. A Space Marine chapter/company/squad/Legion, would all work in concert, trying to keep their brothers alive and fight more effectively in my view.

Frankly, I'd much rather believe that that is the role of the 2nd Legion since its vanishing.

I'm not talking about them being an effective army to guard against daemons. I'm talking about them being laughably out of their game against hordes of Greater Daemons. That's a job you call the Solitaire for, not Custodes.

On the bright side, ADB's next Horus Heresy book, Master of Mankind will be dealing extensively with the War in the Webway, so we should expect a great deal of awesome detail and explanation.

 Wyzilla wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
Though the narrow valley, Persian mass counted for nothing, no route to flank at first, no way round just through,

The land did a lot of work for them + greeks where fighting for homes n families, alit counting on holding the line,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The custodious are tough but 10,000 years holding the line?
Surely the deamons would have erroded them down by them, they are limitless

Depends. Against Custodes? Surely not, they'd die. But something like the Eldar Solitaire would slaughter even legions of Greater Daemons if organized into a small army.

I'd take 10,000 elite SM captains (what Custodes are in terms of ability) than 5000 Solitaires (there's not even that many)
Aren't Many Custodes also Blanks? I remember they caused Ahriman to be uncomfortable in A Thousand Sons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
Though the narrow valley, Persian mass counted for nothing, no route to flank at first, no way round just through,

The land did a lot of work for them + greeks where fighting for homes n families, alit counting on holding the line,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The custodious are tough but 10,000 years holding the line?
Surely the deamons would have erroded them down by them, they are limitless

Depends. Against Custodes? Surely not, they'd die. But something like the Eldar Solitaire would slaughter even legions of Greater Daemons if organized into a small army.

But the Custodes arn't an army, they are Guards. They do not fight as one like the Astartes do, each is an individual warrior, with little sense of brotherhood or.love between them.

While I don't have the exact quote, in The First Heretic, Argel Tal mentions as much. He says something like "They do not fight as one, like the Astartes, covering each other or attacking as a squad. For all their might, they are not brothers. And only brotherhood could prevail."

So with that in mind, an army of individuals would not have the same power as that of Space Marines. Sure, each Custodes is equal to many times his number in Marines but each would fight alone, seeking to rely only on hia own power and skills. A Space Marine chapter/company/squad/Legion, would all work in concert, trying to keep their brothers alive and fight more effectively in my view.

Frankly, I'd much rather believe that that is the role of the 2nd Legion since its vanishing.

I'm not talking about them being an effective army to guard against daemons. I'm talking about them being laughably out of their game against hordes of Greater Daemons. That's a job you call the Solitaire for, not Custodes.

Aren't they all blanks, with thier hilariously powerful weapons that would probably be S:7+ TT?
I think they can handle it fine.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
Though the narrow valley, Persian mass counted for nothing, no route to flank at first, no way round just through,

The land did a lot of work for them + greeks where fighting for homes n families, alit counting on holding the line,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The custodious are tough but 10,000 years holding the line?
Surely the deamons would have erroded them down by them, they are limitless

Depends. Against Custodes? Surely not, they'd die. But something like the Eldar Solitaire would slaughter even legions of Greater Daemons if organized into a small army.

I'd take 10,000 elite SM captains (what Custodes are in terms of ability) than 5000 Solitaires (there's not even that many)
Aren't Many Custodes also Blanks? I remember they caused Ahriman to be uncomfortable in A Thousand Sons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
Though the narrow valley, Persian mass counted for nothing, no route to flank at first, no way round just through,

The land did a lot of work for them + greeks where fighting for homes n families, alit counting on holding the line,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The custodious are tough but 10,000 years holding the line?
Surely the deamons would have erroded them down by them, they are limitless

Depends. Against Custodes? Surely not, they'd die. But something like the Eldar Solitaire would slaughter even legions of Greater Daemons if organized into a small army.

But the Custodes arn't an army, they are Guards. They do not fight as one like the Astartes do, each is an individual warrior, with little sense of brotherhood or.love between them.

While I don't have the exact quote, in The First Heretic, Argel Tal mentions as much. He says something like "They do not fight as one, like the Astartes, covering each other or attacking as a squad. For all their might, they are not brothers. And only brotherhood could prevail."

So with that in mind, an army of individuals would not have the same power as that of Space Marines. Sure, each Custodes is equal to many times his number in Marines but each would fight alone, seeking to rely only on hia own power and skills. A Space Marine chapter/company/squad/Legion, would all work in concert, trying to keep their brothers alive and fight more effectively in my view.

Frankly, I'd much rather believe that that is the role of the 2nd Legion since its vanishing.

I'm not talking about them being an effective army to guard against daemons. I'm talking about them being laughably out of their game against hordes of Greater Daemons. That's a job you call the Solitaire for, not Custodes.

Aren't they all blanks, with thier hilariously powerful weapons that would probably be S:7+ TT?
I think they can handle it fine.

To my knowledge there's nothing pointing to them being blanks, especially since being a blank would make their use as black ops agents damn near impossible given that blanks set off alarms in psykers and cause discomfort in humans and Eldar.

And no, a Solitaire is laughably more powerful than a custode and better suited to fight daemons, given it's their livelihood. Plus they're completely immune to psykers, unlike blanks who can actually be overpowered. And unlike custodes, Solitare have a record for making a mockery of hordes of daemons with little danger to themselves, even great daemons.

Eldar have extreme powers to help, with training and such they can channel some very powerful abilities, + harliquins have backing of a god, weakened but still a god entity of eldar.

Frankly, I'd much rather believe that that is the role of the 2nd Legion since its vanishing.

It would be awesome if this is what the 2nd Legion had been doing all this time. Certainly better than some rubbish fluff about being tainted by chaos/disease/something else and being wiped out as a result by the other legions.

The God-Emperor of Mankind is not going to call in a bunch of Xenos to defend the Golden Throne. While Solitares might be the preferred foe... they're not going to Terra.

Depending on how the Human section of the Web-Way under the Golden Throne looks, you might not need an army. A couple of Custodes standing shoulder-to-shoulder in what is basically a hallway is more than enough to meet the challenge of a pack of daemons coming in single-file.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
Though the narrow valley, Persian mass counted for nothing, no route to flank at first, no way round just through,

The land did a lot of work for them + greeks where fighting for homes n families, alit counting on holding the line,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The custodious are tough but 10,000 years holding the line?
Surely the deamons would have erroded them down by them, they are limitless

Depends. Against Custodes? Surely not, they'd die. But something like the Eldar Solitaire would slaughter even legions of Greater Daemons if organized into a small army.

I'd take 10,000 elite SM captains (what Custodes are in terms of ability) than 5000 Solitaires (there's not even that many)
Aren't Many Custodes also Blanks? I remember they caused Ahriman to be uncomfortable in A Thousand Sons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
Though the narrow valley, Persian mass counted for nothing, no route to flank at first, no way round just through,

The land did a lot of work for them + greeks where fighting for homes n families, alit counting on holding the line,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The custodious are tough but 10,000 years holding the line?
Surely the deamons would have erroded them down by them, they are limitless

Depends. Against Custodes? Surely not, they'd die. But something like the Eldar Solitaire would slaughter even legions of Greater Daemons if organized into a small army.

But the Custodes arn't an army, they are Guards. They do not fight as one like the Astartes do, each is an individual warrior, with little sense of brotherhood or.love between them.

While I don't have the exact quote, in The First Heretic, Argel Tal mentions as much. He says something like "They do not fight as one, like the Astartes, covering each other or attacking as a squad. For all their might, they are not brothers. And only brotherhood could prevail."

So with that in mind, an army of individuals would not have the same power as that of Space Marines. Sure, each Custodes is equal to many times his number in Marines but each would fight alone, seeking to rely only on hia own power and skills. A Space Marine chapter/company/squad/Legion, would all work in concert, trying to keep their brothers alive and fight more effectively in my view.

Frankly, I'd much rather believe that that is the role of the 2nd Legion since its vanishing.

I'm not talking about them being an effective army to guard against daemons. I'm talking about them being laughably out of their game against hordes of Greater Daemons. That's a job you call the Solitaire for, not Custodes.

Aren't they all blanks, with thier hilariously powerful weapons that would probably be S:7+ TT?
I think they can handle it fine.

To my knowledge there's nothing pointing to them being blanks, especially since being a blank would make their use as black ops agents damn near impossible given that blanks set off alarms in psykers and cause discomfort in humans and Eldar.

And no, a Solitaire is laughably more powerful than a custode and better suited to fight daemons, given it's their livelihood. Plus they're completely immune to psykers, unlike blanks who can actually be overpowered. And unlike custodes, Solitare have a record for making a mockery of hordes of daemons with little danger to themselves, even great daemons.

Are Solitaires S:T:5, with 2 wounds, with armor that makes normal Terminator armor look like gak, and weapons that make them hit as hard as a 'Thirster (Going by Moloc's spear)?
Again that group of 2 Custodes caused Ahriman to genuine mental discomfort and pain.
All they have to guard against is Daemons, and Chaos touched Astartes (They are the Anathema's bodyguard after all) so it'd make sense for them to be blanks.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
Though the narrow valley, Persian mass counted for nothing, no route to flank at first, no way round just through,

The land did a lot of work for them + greeks where fighting for homes n families, alit counting on holding the line,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The custodious are tough but 10,000 years holding the line?
Surely the deamons would have erroded them down by them, they are limitless

Depends. Against Custodes? Surely not, they'd die. But something like the Eldar Solitaire would slaughter even legions of Greater Daemons if organized into a small army.

I'd take 10,000 elite SM captains (what Custodes are in terms of ability) than 5000 Solitaires (there's not even that many)
Aren't Many Custodes also Blanks? I remember they caused Ahriman to be uncomfortable in A Thousand Sons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
Though the narrow valley, Persian mass counted for nothing, no route to flank at first, no way round just through,

The land did a lot of work for them + greeks where fighting for homes n families, alit counting on holding the line,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The custodious are tough but 10,000 years holding the line?
Surely the deamons would have erroded them down by them, they are limitless

Depends. Against Custodes? Surely not, they'd die. But something like the Eldar Solitaire would slaughter even legions of Greater Daemons if organized into a small army.

But the Custodes arn't an army, they are Guards. They do not fight as one like the Astartes do, each is an individual warrior, with little sense of brotherhood or.love between them.

While I don't have the exact quote, in The First Heretic, Argel Tal mentions as much. He says something like "They do not fight as one, like the Astartes, covering each other or attacking as a squad. For all their might, they are not brothers. And only brotherhood could prevail."

So with that in mind, an army of individuals would not have the same power as that of Space Marines. Sure, each Custodes is equal to many times his number in Marines but each would fight alone, seeking to rely only on hia own power and skills. A Space Marine chapter/company/squad/Legion, would all work in concert, trying to keep their brothers alive and fight more effectively in my view.

Frankly, I'd much rather believe that that is the role of the 2nd Legion since its vanishing.

I'm not talking about them being an effective army to guard against daemons. I'm talking about them being laughably out of their game against hordes of Greater Daemons. That's a job you call the Solitaire for, not Custodes.

Aren't they all blanks, with thier hilariously powerful weapons that would probably be S:7+ TT?
I think they can handle it fine.

To my knowledge there's nothing pointing to them being blanks, especially since being a blank would make their use as black ops agents damn near impossible given that blanks set off alarms in psykers and cause discomfort in humans and Eldar.

And no, a Solitaire is laughably more powerful than a custode and better suited to fight daemons, given it's their livelihood. Plus they're completely immune to psykers, unlike blanks who can actually be overpowered. And unlike custodes, Solitare have a record for making a mockery of hordes of daemons with little danger to themselves, even great daemons.

Are Solitaires S:T:5, with 2 wounds, with armor that makes normal Terminator armor look like gak, and weapons that make them hit as hard as a 'Thirster (Going by Moloc's spear)?
Again that group of 2 Custodes caused Ahriman to genuine mental discomfort and pain.
All they have to guard against is Daemons, and Chaos touched Astartes (They are the Anathema's bodyguard after all) so it'd make sense for them to be blanks.

Blanks can be overpowered by powerful psykers. The Solitaire are stated to be outright completely immune to all psyker powers, hence them being able to laughably stomp Greater Daemons with little effort.

I know Solitaires are bad ass and all, but were is this 'laughably stomping Greater Daemons'' thing coming from? Source please, I know Path of the Renegade has a Solitaire go 1 V 1 with a Greater Daemon of Slaanesh and win, but it wasn't 'laughably easy' by any means.I would love for you to prove me wrong here, because any fluff about Harlequins, let alone the Solitaires is always a joy to read.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I know Solitaires are bad ass and all, but were is this 'laughably stomping Greater Daemons'' thing coming from? Source please, I know Path of the Renegade has a Solitaire go 1 V 1 with a Greater Daemon of Slaanesh and win, but it wasn't 'laughably easy' by any means.I would love for you to prove me wrong here, because any fluff about Harlequins, let alone the Solitaires is always a joy to read.

Considering that Greater Daemons normally rely largely on psyker powers to blow their enemies away, and otherwise are just lumbering brutes, yes it was indeed laughably easy compared to what typically happens to other warriors who take them on. The Solitaire are capable of simply evading all of the blows thrown at them while picking apart if not purposely embarrassing the Greater Daemon in combat. And that was a Keeper of Secrets, Slaaneshi and thus among the faster daemons. Bloodthirsters and Great Unclean Ones would be even more lopsided in the Solitaire's favor. The only one that might prove a difficult fight are Lords of Change given their precog powers.

Plus in comparison, IIRC Custodes actually get killed by squads of Space Marines in the Horus Heresy. Their feats are just somewhat average or mediocre compared to the Solitaire.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I know Solitaires are bad ass and all, but were is this 'laughably stomping Greater Daemons'' thing coming from? Source please, I know Path of the Renegade has a Solitaire go 1 V 1 with a Greater Daemon of Slaanesh and win, but it wasn't 'laughably easy' by any means.I would love for you to prove me wrong here, because any fluff about Harlequins, let alone the Solitaires is always a joy to read.

Considering that Greater Daemons normally rely largely on psyker powers to blow their enemies away, and otherwise are just lumbering brutes, yes it was indeed laughably easy compared to what typically happens to other warriors who take them on. The Solitaire are capable of simply evading all of the blows thrown at them while picking apart if not purposely embarrassing the Greater Daemon in combat. And that was a Keeper of Secrets, Slaaneshi and thus among the faster daemons. Bloodthirsters and Great Unclean Ones would be even more lopsided in the Solitaire's favor. The only one that might prove a difficult fight are Lords of Change given their precog powers.

Plus in comparison, IIRC Custodes actually get killed by squads of Space Marines in the Horus Heresy. Their feats are just somewhat average or mediocre compared to the Solitaire.

What?
Bloothirsters and Great Unclean Ones "rely" on punching, beating, and cutting the everliving crap out of things.
Being immune to psychic powers would have no effect on "these lumbering brutes" (who have WS:10 btw)
Custodes also punch Ogryns into bloody gore in the 40k equivalent of a muscle shirt, and jeans, and a standard Custode (Vendatha) killed 3 Word Bearer captains, and then survived having a bolter clip pumped in his face (he still got overwhelmed though)
THEY make Solitaires look like trash.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I know Solitaires are bad ass and all, but were is this 'laughably stomping Greater Daemons'' thing coming from? Source please, I know Path of the Renegade has a Solitaire go 1 V 1 with a Greater Daemon of Slaanesh and win, but it wasn't 'laughably easy' by any means.I would love for you to prove me wrong here, because any fluff about Harlequins, let alone the Solitaires is always a joy to read.

Considering that Greater Daemons normally rely largely on psyker powers to blow their enemies away, and otherwise are just lumbering brutes, yes it was indeed laughably easy compared to what typically happens to other warriors who take them on. The Solitaire are capable of simply evading all of the blows thrown at them while picking apart if not purposely embarrassing the Greater Daemon in combat. And that was a Keeper of Secrets, Slaaneshi and thus among the faster daemons. Bloodthirsters and Great Unclean Ones would be even more lopsided in the Solitaire's favor. The only one that might prove a difficult fight are Lords of Change given their precog powers.

Plus in comparison, IIRC Custodes actually get killed by squads of Space Marines in the Horus Heresy. Their feats are just somewhat average or mediocre compared to the Solitaire.

Once again, source? Can you give me an example of a time when a Solitaire beats a Greater Daemon to the extent you are talking about. I have read several pieces of fluff pieces that contain Solitaires and their combat ability, namely Path of the Renegade, Path of the Incubus, Path of the Archon and Masque The Vyle and while all show the Solitaire as being deadly as all shizz, they don't go around beating down Daemon Princes. Motley is shown dueling with Lady Malys, dodging bullets at point blank range and being able to avoid mortar shrapnel *After it had exploded!* while the one in Path of a Renegade is shown going 1v1 with a Keeper of Secrets and managing to lure him into Trees were he puts two daggers in his eyes, but they are not ultimate psychic blanks. Motley makes common reference to being able to read surface thoughs and use Witch Sight as well as have a strange ability to mind control people by touching them, The Path of the Renegade one can Bone Sing, Motley is around a Shadowseer without her head exploding from being around a blank. These are sources which back up my argument, can you show me yours?

As for Solitaire vs Custode; this will only end in argument. I see no comparably feats between them, as the Custode can punch through an Ogryns chest while a Solitaire can move faster then light (Literally, Motley dodges lasers...) so a fight between then would be down to if the Harlequin can get his Kiss into the Custode without putting himself open. If that Kiss hits home though, i don't care how tough you are, you are super, super dead. Like...mushy soup dead.

I was pretty sure that Custodes have spent their days since the Heresy lounging around in leather boots and thongs, taking turns oiling each others' abs and playing at war.

I'm also not sure where these statistics are coming from. Custodes wargear is described as "slightly superior" to that of Astartes, so I wouldn't say their armour "makes Terminator armour look like gak".

It also doesn't make a great deal of sense. A permanent gateway into the Materium is good enough, not to mention easy access to The Emperor and the Astronomican. Why don't the forces of Chaos devote their "undivided" (sorry) attention to this aim? Why isn't every Daemon, Daemon Prince, and Daemon Primarch in the Warp being pushed out by their dark masters to take the single most significant objective in the galaxy? Why is anyone bothering with such petty things as Black Crusades or eating a few souls when this lies in reach?

Last I read, the breach beneath the Golden Throne only opened once and briefly (when Magnus contacted The Emperor about Horus' betrayal), resulting in a daemonic incursion that took much time and many lives to quell.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I know Solitaires are bad ass and all, but were is this 'laughably stomping Greater Daemons'' thing coming from? Source please, I know Path of the Renegade has a Solitaire go 1 V 1 with a Greater Daemon of Slaanesh and win, but it wasn't 'laughably easy' by any means.I would love for you to prove me wrong here, because any fluff about Harlequins, let alone the Solitaires is always a joy to read.

Considering that Greater Daemons normally rely largely on psyker powers to blow their enemies away, and otherwise are just lumbering brutes, yes it was indeed laughably easy compared to what typically happens to other warriors who take them on. The Solitaire are capable of simply evading all of the blows thrown at them while picking apart if not purposely embarrassing the Greater Daemon in combat. And that was a Keeper of Secrets, Slaaneshi and thus among the faster daemons. Bloodthirsters and Great Unclean Ones would be even more lopsided in the Solitaire's favor. The only one that might prove a difficult fight are Lords of Change given their precog powers.

Plus in comparison, IIRC Custodes actually get killed by squads of Space Marines in the Horus Heresy. Their feats are just somewhat average or mediocre compared to the Solitaire.

Source please?
This is all from extrapolation, not from actual fluff.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
I was pretty sure that Custodes have spent their days since the Heresy lounging around in leather boots and thongs, taking turns oiling each others' abs and playing at war.

I'm also not sure where these statistics are coming from. Custodes wargear is described as "slightly superior" to that of Astartes, so I wouldn't say their armour "makes Terminator armour look like gak".

It also doesn't make a great deal of sense. A permanent gateway into the Materium is good enough, not to mention easy access to The Emperor and the Astronomican. Why don't the forces of Chaos devote their "undivided" (sorry) attention to this aim? Why isn't every Daemon, Daemon Prince, and Daemon Primarch in the Warp being pushed out by their dark masters to take the single most significant objective in the galaxy? Why is anyone bothering with such petty things as Black Crusades or eating a few souls when this lies in reach?

Last I read, the breach beneath the Golden Throne only opened once and briefly (when Magnus contacted The Emperor about Horus' betrayal), resulting in a daemonic incursion that took much time and many lives to quell.

Remember the Custodes armor from Dawn of War? The one with similar defense to terminator armor of the same level.
And Moloc's S:+2, AP:2 Power Spear without Unwiedly, with an inbuilt lascannon? That's a Custodes spear.
Or Argel Tal's custode weapons that cleaved through power armor, and broke other power weapons?
Their wargear is meant to be hilariously better than marines. You can afford to do that when there are 200 astartes per 1 Custodian.
The Breach never closed, as evidenced by the massive doors with fighting behind them. It's common knowledge the breach never closed. It's not that the Custodes are fighting off the incursion.
Because if they did the Imperium would just devote 1000s of times more forces, 1000s of Capital battleships, 10 of thousands of Imperator Titans, I think you get the idea. Making the whole thing pointless. Concentrating the Imperium would only make them harder to beat. They could actually fight off the chaos incursion relatively easily.
Trying to stretch them is actually a good idea.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
I was pretty sure that Custodes have spent their days since the Heresy lounging around in leather boots and thongs, taking turns oiling each others' abs and playing at war.

I'm also not sure where these statistics are coming from. Custodes wargear is described as "slightly superior" to that of Astartes, so I wouldn't say their armour "makes Terminator armour look like gak".

It also doesn't make a great deal of sense. A permanent gateway into the Materium is good enough, not to mention easy access to The Emperor and the Astronomican. Why don't the forces of Chaos devote their "undivided" (sorry) attention to this aim? Why isn't every Daemon, Daemon Prince, and Daemon Primarch in the Warp being pushed out by their dark masters to take the single most significant objective in the galaxy? Why is anyone bothering with such petty things as Black Crusades or eating a few souls when this lies in reach?

Last I read, the breach beneath the Golden Throne only opened once and briefly (when Magnus contacted The Emperor about Horus' betrayal), resulting in a daemonic incursion that took much time and many lives to quell.

Remember the Custodes armor from Dawn of War? The one with similar defense to terminator armor of the same level.
And Moloc's S:+2, AP:2 Power Spear without Unwiedly, with an inbuilt lascannon? That's a Custodes spear.
Or Argel Tal's custode weapons that cleaved through power armor, and broke other power weapons?
Their wargear is meant to be hilariously better than marines. You can afford to do that when there are 200 astartes per 1 Custodian.
The Breach never closed, as evidenced by the massive doors with fighting behind them. It's common knowledge the breach never closed. It's not that the Custodes are fighting off the incursion.
Because if they did the Imperium would just devote 1000s of times more forces, 1000s of Capital battleships, 10 of thousands of Imperator Titans, I think you get the idea. Making the whole thing pointless. Concentrating the Imperium would only make them harder to beat. They could actually fight off the chaos incursion relatively easily.
Trying to stretch them is actually a good idea.

Oh I didn't know that rules impacted on the fluff.
Or the Dawn of War games for that matter.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I know Solitaires are bad ass and all, but were is this 'laughably stomping Greater Daemons'' thing coming from? Source please, I know Path of the Renegade has a Solitaire go 1 V 1 with a Greater Daemon of Slaanesh and win, but it wasn't 'laughably easy' by any means.I would love for you to prove me wrong here, because any fluff about Harlequins, let alone the Solitaires is always a joy to read.

Considering that Greater Daemons normally rely largely on psyker powers to blow their enemies away, and otherwise are just lumbering brutes, yes it was indeed laughably easy compared to what typically happens to other warriors who take them on. The Solitaire are capable of simply evading all of the blows thrown at them while picking apart if not purposely embarrassing the Greater Daemon in combat. And that was a Keeper of Secrets, Slaaneshi and thus among the faster daemons. Bloodthirsters and Great Unclean Ones would be even more lopsided in the Solitaire's favor. The only one that might prove a difficult fight are Lords of Change given their precog powers.

Plus in comparison, IIRC Custodes actually get killed by squads of Space Marines in the Horus Heresy. Their feats are just somewhat average or mediocre compared to the Solitaire.

Source please?
This is all from extrapolation, not from actual fluff.

Hm? No, it happens all in Path of the Outcast. The Solitaire makes a mockery of the Keeper of Secrets and dodges every blow it flings. Plus they're outright immune to psyker powers which IIRC was either in the 2nd Edition Codex for Eldar or the 40K Compendium- slightly different than blanks as their souls were torn from them by Slaanesh, whereas Blanks never had a soul in the first place.

Also, I don't remember Daemon Princes ever being stronger than Greater Daemons except in the cases of the Daemon Primarchs or rare exceptions like Be'lakor.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
I was pretty sure that Custodes have spent their days since the Heresy lounging around in leather boots and thongs, taking turns oiling each others' abs and playing at war.

I'm also not sure where these statistics are coming from. Custodes wargear is described as "slightly superior" to that of Astartes, so I wouldn't say their armour "makes Terminator armour look like gak".

It also doesn't make a great deal of sense. A permanent gateway into the Materium is good enough, not to mention easy access to The Emperor and the Astronomican. Why don't the forces of Chaos devote their "undivided" (sorry) attention to this aim? Why isn't every Daemon, Daemon Prince, and Daemon Primarch in the Warp being pushed out by their dark masters to take the single most significant objective in the galaxy? Why is anyone bothering with such petty things as Black Crusades or eating a few souls when this lies in reach?

Last I read, the breach beneath the Golden Throne only opened once and briefly (when Magnus contacted The Emperor about Horus' betrayal), resulting in a daemonic incursion that took much time and many lives to quell.

Remember the Custodes armor from Dawn of War? The one with similar defense to terminator armor of the same level.
And Moloc's S:+2, AP:2 Power Spear without Unwiedly, with an inbuilt lascannon? That's a Custodes spear.
Or Argel Tal's custode weapons that cleaved through power armor, and broke other power weapons?
Their wargear is meant to be hilariously better than marines. You can afford to do that when there are 200 astartes per 1 Custodian.
The Breach never closed, as evidenced by the massive doors with fighting behind them. It's common knowledge the breach never closed. It's not that the Custodes are fighting off the incursion.
Because if they did the Imperium would just devote 1000s of times more forces, 1000s of Capital battleships, 10 of thousands of Imperator Titans, I think you get the idea. Making the whole thing pointless. Concentrating the Imperium would only make them harder to beat. They could actually fight off the chaos incursion relatively easily.
Trying to stretch them is actually a good idea.

Dawn of War gameplay is a terrible source for fluff. Furthermore, even by that same logic there are many items in Dawn of War that have obviously non-canon stats. You could have a Heavy Bolter that does twice as much damage because it was once wielded by a named character, for example. In other words, it's a special, named item in a game and is therefore seriously non-canon.

Moloc's Black Spear is "similar" to Custodes weapons, not the same. It is said to have once been used by Custodes. The Black Spear is a special Relic Blade with a one-shot lascannon in it. Guardian Spears are power halberds with bolters in them that may or may not be Relic Blades (power weapons with a strength boon).

The actions of a named character are a terrible and highly suspect source. However, all this suggests is that the Custodes weapon is a power weapon (cutting through power armour is something even the simplest power sword can do). Breaking other power weapons might be evidence for them being Relic Blades, but again, he's a named character and could break power weapons with his eyebrows if the author wanted.

Source for their wargear being "hilariously better"? They seem to just be like Grey Knights, in that they have wargear+1 (i.e. bolters stuck on to things).

Source for the Breach never closing?

So the Chaos Gods have planned to purposefully lose the fight (by throwing daemonic forces that can't win against the Custodes, which they've been supposedly doing for 10,000 years)... because if they try to win, then they'll lose? That makes no sense at all. For a start, a single massive effort could overwhelm the Custodes defense, kill the Emperor, and disable the Astronomican far quicker than the Imperium could reinforce them or even become aware of the situation. This is hugely beneficial to the forces of Chaos. At any rate, causing that number of Imperial force to descend on one location would also be beneficial to Chaos.