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Well I apologize for any insult I caused. Clearly I was wrong in think you are one of the new glut of digital guys looking to cash in on digital printing for minis.

Please do nto take what I am going to say the wrong way but it is advice given from a VERY hard learned lesson.

Start small and grow over time.

I know that seems like BS but please trust me when I say I know what I am talking about.

 WarPrime wrote:


I am just a game maker trying to do what I think would be cool. I love miniatures. I love tabletop wargaming. I love sci-fi. I have spent all of my savings and racked up my credit cards to get to this point. Should I have waited a bit longer to get things more solidified? Yeah. But I am out of time and money. If I didn't launch the KS then I wouldn't get to keep working on it, and it would go into the pile of other games I hope to one day have the time and money to build.

I hope you realize that this doesn't really do anything to instill any confidence in anyone here, right?

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people seem to jump into these types of projects without any kind of clear project plan. It's hard for me to fathom.

For those of you have have backed and supported me and my grand idea of creating some affordable miniatures. With every fiber of my being, I thank you. With your help we can prove everyone else wrong. The little guy can stand up to the big guy. We can shrug off the insults and verbal oppression. We can build a new universe that at least has some ray of hope no matter how small. And we can show that greed does not have to the be basis of all business.

The proselytizing is a bit much, don't you think?

The big guy succeeds because he plans. Plenty of little guys succeed because they plan. And they co-exist just fine. You can throw around words like "greed" and "oppression," but that doesn't absolve you of the fact that your KS would be more successful if you had a clear project map for your potential investors. Pretty sizable pieces of information were ambiguous or non-existent. That's not a good thing for a brand new company.

Had you launched this project 12-18 months ago, your success would have been all but guaranteed. But in that time, the consumer base has grown exponentially more informed about Kickstarter projects, and you need to realize that people want as much information they can before plunking down their hard earned money on an untested source.

I hope you're able to get more organized and regroup, but your attitude isn't going to win friends or influence people. And that's unfortunate, as you clearly have some talented artists on your team.

 cincydooley wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me how so many people seem to jump into these types of projects without any kind of clear project plan. It's hard for me to fathom.

That is the nature of Kickstarter. Miniature gamers are more critical though of Kickstarter than say a board gamer. If this was a board game, half of these questions wouldn't pop up because most of the manufacturing is a clear cut process. Miniatures is the same, but the hobbyists are a bit more fanatical. It isn't a bad thing necessarily but also isn't a good thing. On a forum too people tend to be cut and dry, so a lot of text is taken out of context than if people were meeting face to face. There are a few people who I thought I'd never like because of how they talked on forums, but when I met them at GenCon it was a completely different experience.

They do have a plan, at least they believe they do. They reached out to Ed and took his response as they could work something out. They believe they could do the Kickstarter, they left plenty of time to get in the queue and sign a contract afterward. I can see how it is easy to do. When I first contacted Ed awhile back, the prospect was good. Then 2 months went by without a response. I know he is busy but initial contact was great, when it came time to hammer things down it was a bit harder. I don't think they are trying to purposely do anything devious... but they are coming at from a video game background and signing contracts means something a little bit different.

 cincydooley wrote:
Had you launched this project 12-18 months ago, your success would have been all but guaranteed. But in that time, the consumer base has grown exponentially more informed about Kickstarter projects, and you need to realize that people want as much information they can before plunking down their hard earned money on an untested source.

I don't think the consumer base has grown more informed, it is more they have become more jaded because they have been burned by larger companies with plans, the budget to be able to use backup options and they haven't. The idea of backing someone because of what they are trying to do is gone, at least with miniatures, trust has to be earned. The smaller company could have the best plan available and even with a contract, it will get picked apart by the crowd. That is the nature of Kickstarter currently, where if someone was only asking 10K it is less likely to have an issue. If he did a small line of humans and wanted 10K, there would be less flak. In that type of atmosphere, the nature of Kickstarter has faltered from what it was originally intended and designed for unfortunately.

 WarPrime wrote:
The ruler: Yes...I know people want to see my miniatures standing right next to a GW mini. Based on all the opinion I got here in this thread (and on BoLS) the frequent comments about getting sued made me a bit more cautious. I didn't think slapping a picture of a GW product on my KS page was a very good idea. I have seen some other KS do it, but they didn't have Sci-fi games with men in powered armor so their risk was a lot less.

The only reason people mention a space marine is that it's the most prevalent mini in the world probably so most gamers have access to one. A ruler is more than good enough, preferably the right way around, starting at the minis feet and in mm not just inches.

 WarPrime wrote:
Video Games: Yeah...we want to make a video game set in this universe. We built a prototype of War Prime with low-poly (2000polys) models for Tablets. The estimate to get the full game made and brought to development would have cost in excess of $500,000US. I was no comfortable coming onto Kickstarter and asking for half a million dollars. So I thought I would start small. Build a real miniatures game. Build a foundation. A fan base. I guess I am still a romantic at heart and believe that if you are passionate, and honest about something. People will get behind you and help you build it. I am not trying to match GW quality. They have 30 years on me. So the only way I can compete is do something they can't. Make some cool miniatures for a great price.

Firstly, that's not something they can't do, it's something they choose not do do because they'd like to make money. Good luck with the philanthropy though.

Secondly, it doesn't take 30 years of anything to match GW's quality, they aren't even objectively the quality you should be aiming for these days, it's been a long while since a GW mini won a best mini poll anywhere. They are good for the most part but have long since been surpassed in quality by a number of smaller companies/sculptors. Their business sense, deep pockets and massive IP is what keeps them as the market leader.

 WarPrime wrote:
I am starting to think I was wrong. Maybe I should just be greedy and only care about the money. Charging you $30 for less than $3 worth of plastic.

*sigh* Seriously? I think you missed off the end of your sentence. ...$3 worth of plastic plus design costs, sculpting costs, massive manufacturing costs and shipping.

Out of interest, how much are you charging for $3 worth of plastic? Oh wait, you can't afford to make proper plastic minis, maybe that's because it doesn't really cost $3.

 WarPrime wrote:
The Plastic: I am sure it will get posted up here soon but I thought I would post the latest Update on the KS page so you hear it from me:

=========================================================
My dear backers,

First let me say how thankful I am for all the support and kind words I have received so far. And to be so far along in such a short time is huge! Kicktraq currently has us trending to succeed at $133k. That is amazing and I thank you.

If you think Kicktraq has ever been correct in the history of time about it's trending then you are very horribly mistaken. The site itself even admits that it's totally useless as an actual indicator of what you're getting until the last couple of days. You'll noticed it's dropped 30k in a single day, keep an eye on it as it falls day after day.

 WarPrime wrote:
*snipped a bit*

I am just a game maker trying to do what I think would be cool. I love miniatures. I love tabletop wargaming. I love sci-fi. I have spent all of my savings and racked up my credit cards to get to this point. Should I have waited a bit longer to get things more solidified? Yeah. But I am out of time and money. If I didn't launch the KS then I wouldn't get to keep working on it, and it would go into the pile of other games I hope to one day have the time and money to build.

You've spent all of your savings and racked up credit cards to get... half a dozen 3d sculpts, some prints and then a bunch of sketches?

By any chance are you including money spent on the failed video game project here?

 WarPrime wrote:
If you don't like the designs. Don't back it. You think we can't deliver. Don't back it. You think Im an ass-hole who is only trying to "cash in on the miniatures market". Don't back it. It's as simple as that. But I have been nothing but open and honest. My email is easy to find. eric@kingmakergames.com I am always willing to talk and share my thoughts and ideas. It seems I have had a few conversations with people on here who thought what I said was a "Joke" and "face palm" worthy. But rather than talking to me about it they ran off here to the rumor mill to stir the gak. I thank you for the same trust and honesty I shared with you.

For those of you have have backed and supported me and my grand idea of creating some affordable miniatures. With every fiber of my being, I thank you. With your help we can prove everyone else wrong. The little guy can stand up to the big guy. We can shrug off the insults and verbal oppression. We can build a new universe that at least has some ray of hope no matter how small. And we can show that greed does not have to the be basis of all business.

Thank you.

No, thank you! Thanks for being the saviour of our industry and showing us all how philanthropic we can be. Before you came along and showed us the way all of us already working in the industry were just being led around by greed while sipping dom out of platinum goblets bought with the cash we suckered out of our poor misled customers. Damn the man! Power to the people! ...

Just out of interest, you are aware that despite your entire business plan basicallly being 'We're sort of a really cut rate version of GW, stick it to the man by buying our stuff for less money!' that there are hundreds of other miniature companies out there right? And by implying the above you basically insulted them all, including me.

I was thinking of asking a bunch of pointed questions like why you seem comfortable that 1 in 5 of all of your product is going to be broken, or why you have allocated a massive chunk of your goal to 'marketing' and 'fulfillment' but after this rather ridiculous post I probably shouldn't as my sarcasm might get the better of me and this isn't the forum for that.

 Dark Severance wrote:
That is the nature of Kickstarter.

Well, no. There are plenty of instances of well planned KS projects out there. Plenty.

They do have a plan, at least they believe they do. They reached out to Ed and took his response as they could work something out. They believe they could do the Kickstarter, they left plenty of time to get in the queue and sign a contract afterward. I can see how it is easy to do. When I first contacted Ed awhile back, the prospect was good. Then 2 months went by without a response. I know he is busy but initial contact was great, when it came time to hammer things down it was a bit harder. I don't think they are trying to purposely do anything devious... but they are coming at from a video game background and signing contracts means something a little bit different.

Sadly, your faith and belief doesn't amount to much here. We called multiple places about our wedding reception. But none of them held our place and guaranteed us a spot until we signed a contract. I can't imagine why anyone would think that'd be different with production. Coming from a video game background means signing contracts is different? You're going to have to explain that one to me.

I don't think the consumer base has grown more informed

I mean, I completely disagree. The amount of knowledge about the production process and production materials has increased significantly.

...it is more they have become more jaded because they have been burned by larger companies with plans, the budget to be able to use backup options and they haven't. The idea of backing someone because of what they are trying to do is gone, at least with miniatures, trust has to be earned. The smaller company could have the best plan available and even with a contract, it will get picked apart by the crowd.

And it should be. Kickstarter backers are beginning to treat these crowdfunding scenarios more like investors. As they should. If Warprime or even Fallen Frontiers went to look for traditional funding (via investor or bank loan) with the information they've presented us, they'd be laughed out of the room. IMO, it's GOOD that people that crowdfunding investors are starting to do this. Very good. We SHOULD hold these people accountable for and with our money.

That is the nature of Kickstarter currently, where if someone was only asking 10K it is less likely to have an issue. If he did a small line of humans and wanted 10K, there would be less flak. In that type of atmosphere, the nature of Kickstarter has faltered from what it was originally intended and designed for unfortunately.

Originally intended? Give me a break. It was never intended as a charity, which is what it seems like you're implying.

I wonder if there is a general lack of understanding on the part of Kingmaker about the state of the wargaming hobby?

Firstly there's the whole 'GW is expensive, why isn't anyone doing anything about that?' angle, then the 'well, we were going to do a comparison shot, but GW would sue us' line.

It's like the creator truthfully has come back to the hobby after 20 years or so and not noticed any of the myriad companies that have sprung up recently, and so genuinely believes they come offering something unique to the market.

 cincydooley wrote:
Well, no. There are plenty of instances of well planned KS projects out there. Plenty.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing against it. There are equally as many KS that appear to be well planned, but aren't as well and they do fine. There are also well planned KS projects that don't make it. I'm also not saying that someone shouldn't have a plan either, merely playing devils advocate. ^_^

I won't quote anymore, because I think that by doing that... it may be creating an misunderstanding that I'm arguing but then again I could be reading the text wrong. It also isn't my faith and belief. Yes contracts depending on the field are different. When you make a contract to develop, design and deliver something the terms are outlined. In some cases that includes a delivery date, upfront portion of $$ in good faith and there are penalties for not delivering. That is why some cases reach out through Kickstarter to establish the customer base, the money for and ensure they are delivering to avoid failure to deliver. This also happens with other products. If I sign a contract ordering 1000 units, but because I fail to get funding and unable to fulfill my end then I have to pay a fee. For some manufacturing it could be as simple as it just means the place is lost in the que and the next person moves up though.

I can see your point. There is a large amount of knowledge about the process and materials and it has increased significantly. There is also a large amount of people who believe they understand the process because they read it on a forum. I also believe though that knowledge mixed with what has happened with some other bigger name Kickstarters has still made people a bit jaded. Like I said if it was a 10K project or a board game, most of these questions don't come up. The comments are already there "start with a small line of miniatures first then do another larger project". There is a lot of information about programming, game design and mechanics but look at any game company and everyone is a armchair programmer... that doesn't necessarily mean they understand the full process from start to finish.

I am not entirely agreeing but disagreeing. I think we all got into Kickstarters for different reasons and my reasons for backing them a couple years ago has also changed compared to how I back now. The market has also changed as more Kickstarters are treating it as pre-sales, which is valid. They ensure they have a customer base, they sell and advertise their product and don't have to worry about launching a product without a customer base. It is a less gamble for not only the company but for the customers. As much as everyone tries to say crowd funding is investing, it isn't because my taxes definitely don't recognize it that way. It is both good and bad aspects to it.

I never said Kickstarter was a charity, nor did I imply that. If it was, no one (including myself) would be caring about what material was made from or who it came from. Kickstarter was originally simply crowd funding, a venture that gets funded by raising small amounts of money from a large number of people for the promise of 'something'. It was a way for the litle guy who through traditional means couldn't get funded but could bring projects to life. It has now changed to becoming a pre-sales, marketing for Mantic, CoolMini and other companies that were once the small guy and now are established small-medium sized companies with backing no longer needing a Kickstarter. However it is still used now as that platform to launch new products. Again... it is both good and bad but it doesn't change the fact that Kickstarter moved away from what was its original intent... again it was not a charity, nor was it a pre-sale platform. I should rephrase that since a large part of Kickstarter still has that view. The games section though has definitely changed.

@Artemis Black,

I find your reply to Eric to be in poor taste and unnecessarily personal. The forum is a much more pleasant place to be if people refrain from ad hominem attacks and excessive use of sarcasm.

The 'were going to take 40k in funding and instantly throw 2.5k of it in the bin as damages' is a massive gak up. Thats how many pledges just to account for poor production? At lease they wont be wasting money on colour box art.

it really annoys me that many decent ks just scrape through funding, deliver their goods and have to struggle whilst others promise the world with no idea how to achieve it and rake in the cash. There really needs to be some accountability for kickstarter projects and I for one am happy that dakkas providing it before people commit their cash.

Admittedly all comments should be constructive, however emotion does come in to it.

 Gallahad wrote:
@Artemis Black,

I find your reply to Eric to be in poor taste and unnecessarily personal. The forum is a much more pleasant place to be if people refrain from ad hominem attacks and excessive use of sarcasm.

It 'is' personal when someone starts claiming to be the solution to this industry's greed. If he wants to insult GW, he should feel free to name them, if he wants to cover his ass by just referring to the industry as a whole then he can realise that there's a considerable number of people in it other than GW.

 Riquende wrote:
then the 'well, we were going to do a comparison shot, but GW would sue us' line.

It is a valid concern although honestly if they want to sue they will... it doesn't matter if they use their image for size comparison or not. It wouldn't be because they used their figure, it would be because the line seems similar to theirs. No one as far as I'm know have been sued for showing an image next to another image on a Kickstarter (although a couple have had C&D letters for other parts of their projects). I'm not sure any company is ready for the bad light it would receive to sue because of size comparison shot.

It is easier though for a individual to post pictures but it does become a gray area when a commercial entity uses an image of something that isn't theirs to do a comparison. I can't legally show artwork from another person/company to compare my work with even if I put a disclaimer that it isn't mine. Miniatures can do it and no one as far as I know has pushed that envelope, most likely because they'd come off as a bully more than anything. My lawyer actually advised me against the same thing. Although I would still do it for the Kickstarter, just not post the images on the website for facebook and leave that for members to do. It is a valid concern but again, a C&D shouldn't happen because of it.

I doubt anyone would be successfully sued for use of another company's products in a comparison photo - I would assume it falls under rules for Comparative Advertising

I'm not saying GW wouldn't issue a C&D for it, but C&D's can often be safely ignored or given the Arkell vs Pressdram Response

Plenty of miniatures companies have shown pics of their models next to GW's with no problems whatsoever. It's fairly common practice, actually.

~Tim?

Yeah, even Fallen Frontiers did it and their stuff was even more of 'a tribute' to GW's design than this is -but I thought I should dig up some legal back up as opposed to just 'everyone else does' - being fair, I wouldn't gamble MY company on trusting that other people's decisions were sound/

it really annoys me that many decent ks just scrape through funding, deliver their goods and have to struggle whilst others promise the world with no idea how to achieve it and rake in the cash. There really needs to be some accountability for kickstarter projects and I for one am happy that dakkas providing it before people commit their cash.

Yes.

.

 Artemis Black wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
@Artemis Black,

I find your reply to Eric to be in poor taste and unnecessarily personal. The forum is a much more pleasant place to be if people refrain from ad hominem attacks and excessive use of sarcasm.

It 'is' personal when someone starts claiming to be the solution to this industry's greed. If he wants to insult GW, he should feel free to name them, if he wants to cover his ass by just referring to the industry as a whole then he can realise that there's a considerable number of people in it other than GW.

Equating the level of personal affront found in the sentence "we can show that greed does not have to be the basis of all business" used by Eric in a KS update and your wall of snark in reply is silly. Again, making your response to his post in poor taste, and unnecessarily personal.

 Gallahad wrote:

 Artemis Black wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
@Artemis Black,

I find your reply to Eric to be in poor taste and unnecessarily personal. The forum is a much more pleasant place to be if people refrain from ad hominem attacks and excessive use of sarcasm.

It 'is' personal when someone starts claiming to be the solution to this industry's greed. If he wants to insult GW, he should feel free to name them, if he wants to cover his ass by just referring to the industry as a whole then he can realise that there's a considerable number of people in it other than GW.

Equating the level of personal affront found in the sentence "we can show that greed does not have to be the basis of all business" used by Eric in a KS update and your wall of snark in reply is silly. Again, making your response to his post in poor taste, and unnecessarily personal.

Well, you're absolutely welcome to your own opinion. I will continue to find his attitude ridiculous and insulting and you can continue to find my response all of the above, seems fair

 Gallahad wrote:
Again, making your response to his post in poor taste, and unnecessarily personal.

I'm intrigued - I can buy "unnecessarily personal" - I don't agree but I can see how you might feel it, but "in poor taste"? I honestly don't see anything in poor taste in these posts - could you elaborate? I don't know if this is just a culture clash where the UK posters (and especially those of us who also frequent the more forthright miniature forums) tend to (a) be more willing to criticise and (b) do so in a less than respectful way. We always got the impression that it was us in the UK who were the kow-towing subjects and that the US was the home of free speech and more rough and tumble in debate, but when it comes to KS projects there does seem to be a flipping of stereotypes.

(I'm off to bed btw so don't take any delay in replying as a personal slight )

 tre manor wrote:

it really annoys me that many decent ks just scrape through funding, deliver their goods and have to struggle whilst others promise the world with no idea how to achieve it and rake in the cash. There really needs to be some accountability for kickstarter projects and I for one am happy that dakkas providing it before people commit their cash.

Yes.

.

Agreed.

Hi guys,

a lot of kickstarters recently have faced such high scrutiny, I've started a thread on the current state of minature ks and would like your opions. Feel free to take any aspect of current ks trends and opions there.

Cheers.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/602512.page#6974519

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
Plenty of miniatures companies have shown pics of their models next to GW's with no problems whatsoever. It's fairly common practice, actually.

~Tim?

I think the usual, "You're going to get sued!" communications towards anyone who even dares to think of making a sci-fi miniatures game might have scared the owners. Whether it's a legitimate fear or not is beside the point; if you have a fear that someone is going to sue you (and being American it's nearly as bad a going to the kitchen for a glass of water), you try to avoid it. Look, the guy apologized and put a tape measure upright, next to his model. What do people want? For him to drive to their house and ask for forgiveness on bent knee?

Not directed at you Tim, just a general comment.

I don't think these guys have their act together but I also don't think they've earned Defiance, Tony Reidy levels of scorn either. YMMV.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 tre manor wrote:

it really annoys me that many decent ks just scrape through funding, deliver their goods and have to struggle whilst others promise the world with no idea how to achieve it and rake in the cash. There really needs to be some accountability for kickstarter projects and I for one am happy that dakkas providing it before people commit their cash.

Yes.

.

Agreed.

+1

 agnosto wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
Plenty of miniatures companies have shown pics of their models next to GW's with no problems whatsoever. It's fairly common practice, actually.

~Tim?

I think the usual, "You're going to get sued!" communications towards anyone who even dares to think of making a sci-fi miniatures game might have scared the owners. Whether it's a legitimate fear or not is beside the point; if you have a fear that someone is going to sue you (and being American it's nearly as bad a going to the kitchen for a glass of water), you try to avoid it. Look, the guy apologized and put a tape measure upright, next to his model. What do people want? For him to drive to their house and ask for forgiveness on bent knee?

Not directed at you Tim, just a general comment.

I don't think these guys have their act together but I also don't think they've earned Defiance, Tony Reidy levels of scorn either. YMMV.

I am not surprised that many people said that GW wil sue them, considering their early pictures. Seriously my thought was "that is a strange Ultramarine image" when I saw them on BoLS Gamewire page. All the negativity is, at least from my point of view understandable. The Kickstarter is poorly executed, and the creator presents himself regularly as a Victim of opression and saviour of the industry in the same breath.

They talk as if they work on the next instant tabletop classic, but they don't deliver. I hope for them that they sort this problems out, and I wish them all luck they need to bring this thing trough but they need to do their homework first.

Dark Severance wrote:

 Riquende wrote:
then the 'well, we were going to do a comparison shot, but GW would sue us' line.

It is a valid concern although honestly if they want to sue they will... it doesn't matter if they use their image for size comparison or not. It wouldn't be because they used their figure, it would be because the line seems similar to theirs. No one as far as I'm know have been sued for showing an image next to another image on a Kickstarter (although a couple have had C&D letters for other parts of their projects). I'm not sure any company is ready for the bad light it would receive to sue because of size comparison shot.

It is easier though for a individual to post pictures but it does become a gray area when a commercial entity uses an image of something that isn't theirs to do a comparison. I can't legally show artwork from another person/company to compare my work with even if I put a disclaimer that it isn't mine. Miniatures can do it and no one as far as I know has pushed that envelope, most likely because they'd come off as a bully more than anything. My lawyer actually advised me against the same thing. Although I would still do it for the Kickstarter, just not post the images on the website for facebook and leave that for members to do. It is a valid concern but again, a C&D shouldn't happen because of it.

Did... did you just completely miss the whole point of my post? Why, yes you did!

The point is that you don't need to take comparison pictures next to GW figures at all, there are plenty of miniature out there, many of which now are very popular ranges. My point was that the creator seemed unaware of this.

I don't care one iota what the legal situation with GW is, because you can avoid it entirely.

Gallahad wrote:@Artemis Black,

I find your reply to Eric to be in poor taste and unnecessarily personal. The forum is a much more pleasant place to be if people refrain from ad hominem attacks and excessive use of sarcasm.

Please learn what an 'ad hominem' is before accusing anyone of doing it. You may not like insults, but they're not automatically ad hominems. Don't be 'that guy' who tosses about fancy phrases in discussions without understanding their meanings.

richred_uk wrote:
I doubt anyone would be successfully sued for use of another company's products in a comparison photo - I would assume it falls under rules for Comparative Advertising

Yes and no, it isn't completely black and white like that.

 Riquende wrote:
The point is that you don't need to take comparison pictures next to GW figures at all, there are plenty of miniature out there, many of which now are very popular ranges. My point was that the creator seemed unaware of this.

It has nothing to do with if it was a GW figure at all. As a commercial company entity you can't and shouldn't be utilizing photos of another product that you don't own the copyright to. It could be Reaper miniatures and they could technically be liable for a C&D at the very least.

The defense "everyone else does it" doesn't hold up in a court of law. Now the chances of it happening are going to be rare and it hasn't happened yet but just because it hasn't happened it doesn't make it legal.

I find the human concepts to have more in common with Warzone then current 40k.

The hyperbole from the creator is getting a little much. There are many companies doing what you are hoping to do. Show us why you are worth putting money in to, don't tell us.

Understand that a significant portion of community is very familiar with the issues and potential pitfalls that you are facing because A: they have been/are project creators B: they have/are currently experiencing project fulfillment as backers.
Try to appreciate that there is little to no 'trolling' happening here. Most of us want to see good projects do well, it helps everyone to have a strong, competitive marketplace, but a high threshold for Crowdfunding has been established.

I you haven't yet you should research Defiance Games as an example of why backers have every reason to be suspicious of the sort of promises and terminology that you are using.
Look at Dreamforge Games for an example of how someone with all his ducks in a row has maintained good will and high quality despite running late on delivery.
Look at Sedition Wars and Gates of Antares to see how being respected and established in the community doesn't overcome a shoddy plan and poor production.

Don't be a martyr, don't be passive aggressive, be open minded and responsive to criticism.

 plastictrees wrote:


The hyperbole from the creator is getting a little much. There are many companies doing what you are hoping to do. Show us why you are worth putting money in to, don't tell us.

This. So, so much this. I was pretty interested for a little while, but after having been exposed to the creator's whole "I'm a martyr/War Prime is the second coming of gaming" spiel, I've pretty much lost all interest in it. He just comes off as a *bit* of an egomaniac.

~Tim?

P.S. And the passive-aggressiveness ain't helping things at all.

It's worse on his blog

http://warprime.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/the-war-prime-game-announced.html

 plastictrees wrote:
I find the human concepts to have more in common with Warzone then current 40k.

The hyperbole from the creator is getting a little much. There are many companies doing what you are hoping to do. Show us why you are worth putting money in to, don't tell us.

Understand that a significant portion of community is very familiar with the issues and potential pitfalls that you are facing because A: they have been/are project creators B: they have/are currently experiencing project fulfillment as backers.
Try to appreciate that there is little to no 'trolling' happening here. Most of us want to see good projects do well, it helps everyone to have a strong, competitive marketplace, but a high threshold for Crowdfunding has been established.

I you haven't yet you should research Defiance Games as an example of why backers have every reason to be suspicious of the sort of promises and terminology that you are using.
Look at Dreamforge Games for an example of how someone with all his ducks in a row has maintained good will and high quality despite running late on delivery.
Look at Sedition Wars and Gates of Antares to see how being respected and established in the community doesn't overcome a shoddy plan and poor production.

Don't be a martyr, don't be passive aggressive, be open minded and responsive to criticism.

+1... actually +2 after plastictrees got to it first

Too late I think. A first-comer that has already shown what he's made of once things get rough and can't take the heat. I've already did a full analysis in the previous page, I think it's way too late and will be very unpleasantly surprised to see this one get funded. As others mentioned before, other KickStarters have done their math better and they have really struggled, why on earth should this have any better luck given all the math it hasn't done?

 Artemis Black wrote:
It's worse on his blog

http://warprime.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/the-war-prime-game-announced.html

Yikes. What gaming reality does he live in?