Angron is the Worst Primarch

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Grey Templar**

Harriticus wrote:
The key part of all this is angron is the only Primarch who didn't want to be a Primarch

I don't think any of them wanted to be a Primarch. Most of them just didn't complain.

It does still leave the fact that what the Emperor did with him was very weird. You've been conquering thousands of planets over the last few hundred years, surely the primitive inhabitants of Angron's homeworld would have been acceptable for being brought into the fold. Why not do it in style?

**Deadshot**

Grey Templar wrote:
Harriticus wrote:
The key part of all this is angron is the only Primarch who didn't want to be a Primarch

I don't think any of them wanted to be a Primarch. Most of them just didn't complain.

It does still leave the fact that what the Emperor did with him was very weird. You've been conquering thousands of planets over the last few hundred years, surely the primitive inhabitants of Angron's homeworld would have been acceptable for being brought into the fold. Why not do it in style?

I don't believe that they would have been. For a start, these are people who had recently escaped oppression. If the Emperor had come along and said "You serve me now, go die in droves for my Imperium," their reaction would not have been positive. Furthermore, these are people who have shown that should conditions not agree with them, or they be anything but a free, left wing society, they will revolt, something the Emperor cannot let happen. In Galaxy in Flames, none of the Sons of Horus can comprehend the idea that the soldiers on Davin have revolted.
Furthermore, the army included both men and women and children. The boys may have a chance at joining the Astartes, but again, you don't want that type of thinking in the ranks of the Imperial Army, never mind a Legion. The men would have been too old and the females unsuitable. Furthermore, many of the slaves had likewise the Butcher's Nails installed, making them unsuitable for control or taking orders. Angron was saved and tolerated in spite of all that simply because of his Primarch nature and his father's love for him.

**TheRedWingArmada**

SilentScreamer wrote:
To be honest, angron may as well have led a massive penal legion with astartes acting like slave drivers imo. I agree that he is a terrible primarch, he acted like a child and turned his legion into a legion of feral pack animals.

See, I can't call Angron or any of the other butt-hurt Primarchs children for what they did, because they made a choice, had good reason to do so, and have lived their choice and relatively enjoyed it. Ex: Angron just wants to fight and fight and fight, so now he gets to do exactly that.

Now Horus? THERE was a child. "I love my Dad, but I'm afraid of what he might do because my friend Erebus said this, but then Magnus warned me of what Erebus was saying, but Dad said Magnus can't do that, so Magnus must be bad. Kill Dad." Wtf?! WORST. CHOICE. EVER.

And he really was presented with a choice. He was Warmaster and King Shiz-a-Gold-Mountain, and he STILL fell to Chaos. Granted, the Chaos Gods reeeeeeally wanted him, but again, this came down to CHOICE and Horus definitely made the most plain and painfully obvious bad choice. Then again, when you think about what he was told in his coma, that either he could live as a Chaos Warlord and ruin the Imperium or Die and Save the Imperium? Well again, the childish choice at that point was "Live and see if I can do it better! ...even though I'm being told I can't."

**BrianDavion**

Grey Templar wrote:
Harriticus wrote:
The key part of all this is angron is the only Primarch who didn't want to be a Primarch

I don't think any of them wanted to be a Primarch. Most of them just didn't complain.

not sure about that. some seem to have embraced it more then others.

Gulliman and Horus both give me very distinct "I love my job!" vibes

thing is, the vast majority of Primarchs where eistablished warlords even before being found.

Angron is noted as being the only Primarch who didn't end up ruling their homeworld.

Which incidently brings up a flaw in the "well angron's followers where rebels and the Emperor had no place for rebels in his empire"... Corax. Corax's followers where people in a prison revolt.

**Bulldogging**

I think it's a side affect of reading more about the chapters and primarchs in the Black Library books.

I'm a Space Wolf fan, but after reading Prospero Burns and Thousand Sons, I have a much different opinion about Russ and the Space Wolves.

**Deadshot**

BrianDavion wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Harriticus wrote:
The key part of all this is angron is the only Primarch who didn't want to be a Primarch

I don't think any of them wanted to be a Primarch. Most of them just didn't complain.

not sure about that. some seem to have embraced it more then others.

Gulliman and Horus both give me very distinct "I love my job!" vibes

thing is, the vast majority of Primarchs where eistablished warlords even before being found.

Angron is noted as being the only Primarch who didn't end up ruling their homeworld.

Which incidently brings up a flaw in the "well angron's followers where rebels and the Emperor had no place for rebels in his empire"... Corax. Corax's followers where people in a prison revolt.

Corax set up a very well run democracy and named his new world Deliverance, in peace. Angron's people were angry rebellious slaves with the Butcher's Nails. No only that, but IIRC, Corax's people were wrongly imprisoned (hence why Corax himself was too).

**Veteran of The Long War**

TheRedWingArmada wrote:
SilentScreamer wrote:
To be honest, angron may as well have led a massive penal legion with astartes acting like slave drivers imo. I agree that he is a terrible primarch, he acted like a child and turned his legion into a legion of feral pack animals.

See, I can't call Angron or any of the other butt-hurt Primarchs children for what they did, because they made a choice, had good reason to do so, and have lived their choice and relatively enjoyed it. Ex: Angron just wants to fight and fight and fight, so now he gets to do exactly that.

Now Horus? THERE was a child. "I love my Dad, but I'm afraid of what he might do because my friend Erebus said this, but then Magnus warned me of what Erebus was saying, but Dad said Magnus can't do that, so Magnus must be bad. Kill Dad." Wtf?! WORST. CHOICE. EVER.

And he really was presented with a choice. He was Warmaster and King Shiz-a-Gold-Mountain, and he STILL fell to Chaos. Granted, the Chaos Gods reeeeeeally wanted him, but again, this came down to CHOICE and Horus definitely made the most plain and painfully obvious bad choice. Then again, when you think about what he was told in his coma, that either he could live as a Chaos Warlord and ruin the Imperium or Die and Save the Imperium? Well again, the childish choice at that point was "Live and see if I can do it better! ...even though I'm being told I can't."

I agree with everything in this post. Horus' fall scene in False Gods was absolutely stupid. Which I why I ignore it and go with the old background where he was Possessed on Davin

**KorPhaeron77**

BrianDavion wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Harriticus wrote:
The key part of all this is angron is the only Primarch who didn't want to be a Primarch

I don't think any of them wanted to be a Primarch. Most of them just didn't complain.

not sure about that. some seem to have embraced it more then others.

Gulliman and Horus both give me very distinct "I love my job!" vibes

Actually, in Unremembered Empire there is a moment where Guilliman is imagining himself as a simple farmer, content with his life, but he is noble enough to know in his heart that he was not made for such a humble life, that he must be something greater for the good of humanity.

The Khan would rather have roamed the galaxy honing his skills, fighting tyrants than setting up an Empire. Lorgar wanted to be a scholar, Vulkan was happy as a Smith, Curze revelled as a lone vigilante and didn't suit the role of a Primarch. Magnus wanted to enlighten the galaxy, not conquer it. Mortarion opposed Tyrants who ruled with vast psychic power and fought for the little guy, not pushing the agenda of said Tyrant. That's at least a 3rd that either didn't want to lead, or did not want to lead in the aggressive capacity that the Primarchs were used. I'd argue the only ones who truly revelled in it were Dorn, raised to be a war leader from birth, his agenda transferred very easily into the Imperial model. Horus,he was a Primarch the longest, didn't really know anything else , being discovered first. Fulgrim, because he loved to be the centre of attention, totally lacking in humility, what better job than the one where you are better than everyone else and centre of attention? The Lion, unlike many he did not bond well with many on his birth world, leading a Legion on a Crusade was exactly the Knightly dream he had since being found by the Order on Caliban. Finally, Alpharius/Omegon, they treat war like a game of intrigue, they seem to relish being war leaders. The rest were willing but were probably happier as leaders of their own domains, doing things their way like Russ or Perturabo, Great leaders but not exactly the standard tacticians you'd expect for an inter galactic empire.

**Bergs**

Veteran of The Long War wrote:
TheRedWingArmada wrote:
SilentScreamer wrote:
To be honest, angron may as well have led a massive penal legion with astartes acting like slave drivers imo. I agree that he is a terrible primarch, he acted like a child and turned his legion into a legion of feral pack animals.

See, I can't call Angron or any of the other butt-hurt Primarchs children for what they did, because they made a choice, had good reason to do so, and have lived their choice and relatively enjoyed it. Ex: Angron just wants to fight and fight and fight, so now he gets to do exactly that.

Now Horus? THERE was a child. "I love my Dad, but I'm afraid of what he might do because my friend Erebus said this, but then Magnus warned me of what Erebus was saying, but Dad said Magnus can't do that, so Magnus must be bad. Kill Dad." Wtf?! WORST. CHOICE. EVER.

And he really was presented with a choice. He was Warmaster and King Shiz-a-Gold-Mountain, and he STILL fell to Chaos. Granted, the Chaos Gods reeeeeeally wanted him, but again, this came down to CHOICE and Horus definitely made the most plain and painfully obvious bad choice. Then again, when you think about what he was told in his coma, that either he could live as a Chaos Warlord and ruin the Imperium or Die and Save the Imperium? Well again, the childish choice at that point was "Live and see if I can do it better! ...even though I'm being told I can't."

I agree with everything in this post. Horus' fall scene in False Gods was absolutely stupid. Which I why I ignore it and go with the old background where he was Possessed on Davin

I LOVED those 3 books, but that was/is 1 thing that just doesn't seem to make any sense...So horus finds out that it was actually erebus tricking him, magnus warns him, horus wakes up, fast forward X months Horus + Chaos = love...wtf.

**Pilau Rice**

Deadshot wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Harriticus wrote:
The key part of all this is angron is the only Primarch who didn't want to be a Primarch

I don't think any of them wanted to be a Primarch. Most of them just didn't complain.

It does still leave the fact that what the Emperor did with him was very weird. You've been conquering thousands of planets over the last few hundred years, surely the primitive inhabitants of Angron's homeworld would have been acceptable for being brought into the fold. Why not do it in style?

I don't believe that they would have been. For a start, these are people who had recently escaped oppression. If the Emperor had come along and said "You serve me now, go die in droves for my Imperium," their reaction would not have been positive. Furthermore, these are people who have shown that should conditions not agree with them, or they be anything but a free, left wing society, they will revolt, something the Emperor cannot let happen.

Hmm, but perhaps they should have at least been given the option? They have proven loyalty above all else to Angron, if the Emperor had assisted his Son the same way he did other Primarchs perhaps Angron and the slaves would have sworn fealty to the Emperor. Other Primarchs, like Corax, were leading rebellions on their homeworlds and the Emperor assisted him.

Maybe Nuceria was bought into the Imperium before the Emperor had contacted Angron, he couldn't be seen to slaughter the now populace of a world of the Imperium. Maybe it was a deal, you take Angron into the stars and leave us to destroy his memory and we will join the Imperium.

**ChazSexington**

KorPhaeron77 wrote:

Actually, in Unremembered Empire there is a moment where Guilliman is imagining himself as a simple farmer, content with his life, but he is noble enough to know in his heart that he was not made for such a humble life, that he must be something greater for the good of humanity.

The Khan would rather have roamed the galaxy honing his skills, fighting tyrants than setting up an Empire. Lorgar wanted to be a scholar, Vulkan was happy as a Smith, Curze revelled as a lone vigilante and didn't suit the role of a Primarch. Magnus wanted to enlighten the galaxy, not conquer it. Mortarion opposed Tyrants who ruled with vast psychic power and fought for the little guy, not pushing the agenda of said Tyrant. That's at least a 3rd that either didn't want to lead, or did not want to lead in the aggressive capacity that the Primarchs were used. I'd argue the only ones who truly revelled in it were Dorn, raised to be a war leader from birth, his agenda transferred very easily into the Imperial model. Horus,he was a Primarch the longest, didn't really know anything else , being discovered first. Fulgrim, because he loved to be the centre of attention, totally lacking in humility, what better job than the one where you are better than everyone else and centre of attention? The Lion, unlike many he did not bond well with many on his birth world, leading a Legion on a Crusade was exactly the Knightly dream he had since being found by the Order on Caliban. Finally, Alpharius/Omegon, they treat war like a game of intrigue, they seem to relish being war leaders. The rest were willing but were probably happier as leaders of their own domains, doing things their way like Russ or Perturabo, Great leaders but not exactly the standard tacticians you'd expect for an inter galactic empire.

Alpharius/Omegon were happy to be Space Pirates (before make-up dealers known as Rouge Traders made it cool) until Horus turned up!

**da001**

BrianDavion wrote:

Angron is noted as being the only Primarch who didn't end up ruling their homeworld.

1- Mortarion failed in his attempt to dethrone his foster father. He would have died if not for the intervention of the Emperor.

2- Perturabo didn´t even try to rule his homeworld. After conquering it in the name of his foster father, Damnekos, he stayed out of politics and was happy indulging in art and engineering.

3- Alpharius and Omegon... well... let´s say it depends on the source.

4, 5- And there are two Primarchs that we know nothing about.

**TheRedWingArmada**

Bergs wrote:
Veteran of The Long War wrote:
TheRedWingArmada wrote:
SilentScreamer wrote:
To be honest, angron may as well have led a massive penal legion with astartes acting like slave drivers imo. I agree that he is a terrible primarch, he acted like a child and turned his legion into a legion of feral pack animals.

See, I can't call Angron or any of the other butt-hurt Primarchs children for what they did, because they made a choice, had good reason to do so, and have lived their choice and relatively enjoyed it. Ex: Angron just wants to fight and fight and fight, so now he gets to do exactly that.

Now Horus? THERE was a child. "I love my Dad, but I'm afraid of what he might do because my friend Erebus said this, but then Magnus warned me of what Erebus was saying, but Dad said Magnus can't do that, so Magnus must be bad. Kill Dad." Wtf?! WORST. CHOICE. EVER.

And he really was presented with a choice. He was Warmaster and King Shiz-a-Gold-Mountain, and he STILL fell to Chaos. Granted, the Chaos Gods reeeeeeally wanted him, but again, this came down to CHOICE and Horus definitely made the most plain and painfully obvious bad choice. Then again, when you think about what he was told in his coma, that either he could live as a Chaos Warlord and ruin the Imperium or Die and Save the Imperium? Well again, the childish choice at that point was "Live and see if I can do it better! ...even though I'm being told I can't."

I agree with everything in this post. Horus' fall scene in False Gods was absolutely stupid. Which I why I ignore it and go with the old background where he was Possessed on Davin

I LOVED those 3 books, but that was/is 1 thing that just doesn't seem to make any sense...So horus finds out that it was actually erebus tricking him, magnus warns him, horus wakes up, fast forward X months Horus + Chaos = love...wtf.

It's a little ridiculous, but then you have to realize that it was a choice; flat out, plain and simple: Ignore Erebus and die or go with Erebus and attempt to for-go the nightmare Imperium he was shown. Too bad the moron never realized the image he was shown was what would happen if he DID turn to Chaos, which he did, and which caused the future we have today.

Like I said, BAD, TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE CHOICE made with BAD, TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE FACTORS to choose from. And then let's not also forget that during the time this choice was made, he was practically asleep and dreaming, so...get this.

He's asleep and dreaming, in a position of his own mind that is subject to the laws of dreaming....and he decided to make a decision there? Your primal nature comes through in your dream, and Horus' at that point, was very clearly survival. Erebus just sweetened the pot by saying "Now if you do this, you'll also be made King Emperor of Sh!t a Gold Mountain." Too bad he was just reduced to sh!t at the end. lol

And this is why, "Warmaster" or not," Horus was a fool the likes of which, I'd argue, Abaddon has easily surpassed. So much so that the Lieber Malefact makes more out of Abaddon than out of the "Warmonger," as Horus is referenced too. Ultimately though, they are all pawns of Chaos, and Huron will be the next psychotic bastard to usurp Abaddon after he finishes his "Red Work" on Holy Terra, to which Huron will then be crowned an undisputed master of all Chaos and Terra will be his new seat of power, freshly waxed with the dust of the Emperor's corpse body and the blood of everything in the Imperial Palace.

4-K-OS!

**Serg Rush**

As for your point on his body guards. Its not addressed in the Horus Heresy. But in the Chosen of Khorne audio drama. Kharn says Angron hated his body guards and implies he wanted rid of them. He goes on the say the body guard captain, a World Eater named Targost is pretty much as big of a panzy as a space marine could be. He is proven correct further along in the audio drama.