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 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
He never managed to do any real damage.

Oh no, with the 13th Black Crusade he's done horrific damage by breaching the Cadian gate and setting foot on Cadia. The problem is that the 13th Black Crusade is the first time he's made an actual notable victory besides previous logistic runs labeled crusades or failed battles.

Define "victory." Because, as the CSM codex suggests, Imperial Augers believe every Crusade so far has just been building up to this final 13th Black Crusade that will accomplish his ultimate goal. Every crusade so far, while seemingly inconsequential, has done something drastic and accomplished Abbadons goals. From claiming Drachn'yen and the Black Stone Fortresses to crippling Imperial firepower by desecrating Blood Angel gene-seeds (Devestators) and robbing Antecannis and Cancephalus of all their military power.

So while we like to think "Poor Armless hasn't done anything," he's actually done everything he's wanted, exactly as he wanted it to happen. Even losing (someone mentioned) that crazy daemon summoning artifact that held one of Nurgles great Generals. Losing that probably didn't help matters any, but as it was pointed out by another, that wasn't his goal in the first place. It was killing a veteran Grey Knight that could have turned up on Cadia now and really done some damage.

Interesting about the GW "Eye of Terror" campaign. I've heard quiet a bit about it, specifically that Chaos players had a field day and practically threw open the Gates and will be storming towards Terra any day now, but then retcon. ><!!!

Wish Terra would fall already so we could start doing something different for a change. Make the Loyalists a small guerilla force, the Tau rise in power, Chaos creates a Chaos Zone in the former Imperium, the Eldar are rendered more extinct than they already are and the Dark Eldar are now actively fighting back against the newly held Chaos domain, etc. etc. Could be so much more epic in the 50k universe and definitely more heroic. >

What Chaos players don't like to talk about is how Chaos got stomped on in the Specialist games, most importantly BFG.

The Imperium controlling the spacelanes at Cadia didn't come out of nowhere.

You can have the best army ever, but if you don't have the ships to get it off planet it's just orbital bombardment bait.

 Kain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
He never managed to do any real damage.

Oh no, with the 13th Black Crusade he's done horrific damage by breaching the Cadian gate and setting foot on Cadia. The problem is that the 13th Black Crusade is the first time he's made an actual notable victory besides previous logistic runs labeled crusades or failed battles.

The difficulty is that given that the mortal followers of Chaos as a whole number less than the soldiers of the Imperium, he may run into the same problems the Axis did in WW2 when they tried to take on the world. Not enough manpower or especially fleet power to win out in the end. He knows the Imperium is currently busy with the rise of the Xenos, so right now is his best shot at victory while the Imperium is distracted.

It's also noted that the Chaos Gods know that Abaddon doesn't really care about them and just wants to make his own Imperium and would gladly abandon them the moment he had the chance to have the power to himself. So they might yank his chain anyway.

Of course...someone might just beat him to the emperor.

IIRC, isn't it actually stated somewhere that Abaddon is just the unwitting pawn of Belakor? But yes, for Abaddon, the 13th Crusade will likely be a very short lived victory for him before he either is backstabbed by the Chaos Gods for failing to show respect, Belakor disposes of him and seizes direct command of Abaddon's forces, or he's killed by some space marine champion. Hilariously though if Abaddon actually was respectful and didn't blatantly use Chaos as a tool, he might have been able to take Cadia by so simply asking Nurgle to spill doubtworm onto the planet or ripping open a portal to the warp on the planet's surface and letting Daemons overrun the planet in their endless numbers. If Lorgar for example was to lead such a crusade, Cadia would likely be lost in a matter of weeks or less. Abaddon however I doubt is even capable of summoning hordes of daemons.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
He never managed to do any real damage.

Oh no, with the 13th Black Crusade he's done horrific damage by breaching the Cadian gate and setting foot on Cadia. The problem is that the 13th Black Crusade is the first time he's made an actual notable victory besides previous logistic runs labeled crusades or failed battles.

Define "victory." Because, as the CSM codex suggests, Imperial Augers believe every Crusade so far has just been building up to this final 13th Black Crusade that will accomplish his ultimate goal. Every crusade so far, while seemingly inconsequential, has done something drastic and accomplished Abbadons goals. From claiming Drachn'yen and the Black Stone Fortresses to crippling Imperial firepower by desecrating Blood Angel gene-seeds (Devestators) and robbing Antecannis and Cancephalus of all their military power.

So while we like to think "Poor Armless hasn't done anything," he's actually done everything he's wanted, exactly as he wanted it to happen. Even losing (someone mentioned) that crazy daemon summoning artifact that held one of Nurgles great Generals. Losing that probably didn't help matters any, but as it was pointed out by another, that wasn't his goal in the first place. It was killing a veteran Grey Knight that could have turned up on Cadia now and really done some damage.

Interesting about the GW "Eye of Terror" campaign. I've heard quiet a bit about it, specifically that Chaos players had a field day and practically threw open the Gates and will be storming towards Terra any day now, but then retcon. ><!!!

Wish Terra would fall already so we could start doing something different for a change. Make the Loyalists a small guerilla force, the Tau rise in power, Chaos creates a Chaos Zone in the former Imperium, the Eldar are rendered more extinct than they already are and the Dark Eldar are now actively fighting back against the newly held Chaos domain, etc. etc. Could be so much more epic in the 50k universe and definitely more heroic. >

Yeah the Chaos victories were fragging brutal in that campaign. If they hadn't retconned it they way they did Chaos, and in turn Abaddon himself, would be a far greater power then they currently are.

About the Grey Knight, he didn't kill him. He captured him. He turned the Geneseed over to Fabius bile and his cadre to ensure their services, and dark gods don't want to know what Fabius bile will wind up doing with an original stock of gene seed. While Abaddon is currently working on breaking the Grey Knight to his own ends. Can you imagine what kind of moral blow it will be when they see Abaddon walking into battle flanked by not just any grey knight, but one of the founding 12 grand masters of the order?

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
He never managed to do any real damage.

Oh no, with the 13th Black Crusade he's done horrific damage by breaching the Cadian gate and setting foot on Cadia. The problem is that the 13th Black Crusade is the first time he's made an actual notable victory besides previous logistic runs labeled crusades or failed battles.

The difficulty is that given that the mortal followers of Chaos as a whole number less than the soldiers of the Imperium, he may run into the same problems the Axis did in WW2 when they tried to take on the world. Not enough manpower or especially fleet power to win out in the end. He knows the Imperium is currently busy with the rise of the Xenos, so right now is his best shot at victory while the Imperium is distracted.

It's also noted that the Chaos Gods know that Abaddon doesn't really care about them and just wants to make his own Imperium and would gladly abandon them the moment he had the chance to have the power to himself. So they might yank his chain anyway.

Of course...someone might just beat him to the emperor.

IIRC, isn't it actually stated somewhere that Abaddon is just the unwitting pawn of Belakor? But yes, for Abaddon, the 13th Crusade will likely be a very short lived victory for him before he either is backstabbed by the Chaos Gods for failing to show respect, Belakor disposes of him and seizes direct command of Abaddon's forces, or he's killed by some space marine champion. Hilariously though if Abaddon actually was respectful and didn't blatantly use Chaos as a tool, he might have been able to take Cadia by so simply asking Nurgle to spill doubtworm onto the planet or ripping open a portal to the warp on the planet's surface and letting Daemons overrun the planet in their endless numbers. If Lorgar for example was to lead such a crusade, Cadia would likely be lost in a matter of weeks or less. Abaddon however I doubt is even capable of summoning hordes of daemons.

Be'Lakor offered Abaddon his help.

Abaddon noticed that every time he followed Be'Lakor's advice he started getting a long string of pyrhhic victories or outright setbacks.

So now he always keeps a close eye on Be'Lakor because he's now aware that Be'Lakor wants to be the only champion of Chaos and sees Abaddon as an upstart youngling.

Be'Lakor is probably Abaddon's biggest danger given that Abaddon has no control over him, where he goes, nor does he enjoy a particular advantage in favor from the gods over the first Daemon Prince. Since while Be'Lakor is a fickle wanderer of the aethyr, Abaddon only cares for chaos as far as he can use it.

Huron is another big threat, and Erebus is yet another person who believes that Abaddon does not deserve his position.

So he has to watch his back from the Corsairs, the Word Bearers, and the first Daemon Prince.

Maverike_prime wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Arcsquad12 wrote:
Huron Blackheart controls the largest organized Chaos Marine and renegade fleet outside of the Eye of Terror. He's easily the biggest contender that Abaddon has outside of the Daemon Primarchs.

Not to mention that Huron actually has a pretty good record of kicking ass. Most of Abaddon's crusades have been nothing more than logistic runs with only a couple comprising actual campaigns. And while Abaddon does have a foothold on Cadia, Blackheart has been living a life of piracy and sacking Imperium ships left and right while also boosting his warband to near that of a full strength legion. Hell you can even argue that he bounced back from his only real defeat and the melta gun incident stronger than ever.

I may have mentioned this hear before, though I know I have definitely put this out about Huron and what I've seen so far.

It is suggested that while the Tyrant is a considerable threat, he is currently being driven mad by the pain caused by his implant. On top of that, he is located in a completely different sector of space (the Maelstrom) and has been inacting a very secretive and dark vision. In "Treacheries of the Space Marines" there is a story of Huron trapping a Chaos Sorcerers soul in a bottle to feed the Hamadrya so that he could reach out from the Maelstrom without losing his power or "food" for the Hamadrya. In this instance, it definitely seems as though he's poised to take out something significant like Macragge or what not. On top of that, his pirate fleets typically operate in small, independent warbands. When Huron himself ventures out, that's when the Legion sized forces, shocking strategy and horrific goals emerge.

With Segmentum Pacificus being overrun, Astropaths dying in droves, Psykers emerging in unprecedented numbers, the Thousand Sons leaving the Webway in Legion strength and Abbadon knock, knock, knocking on Cadia's door, what you see looking down on all of this is a noose slowly closing around the Imperiums neck. And wouldn't it be fitting to find out, just as Horus' purpose was to cripple the Emperor and forge the Chaos Space Marines, that Abbadons work be to finish that job, rebirth the Emperor as a Chaos God, and then subsequently be killed and replaced by the arisen, Huron Blackheart? Because with Hamadrya, Huron DEFINITELY has the Chaos Gods blessings. To what end, becomes the question.

There is also the whole deal about Ahriman killing the Ruinous 4 and then embodying them all, which I believe is also a ploy by Tzeentch to counter the Emperors rebirth, but that is a whole convoluted story for another time.

I've got some really deep theories about what is actually going on, and it can only be understood from an immortal perspective which the Ruinous Powers are the sole proprietors of. Basically, the reason why all of this looks disjointed and nonsensical is because Chaos is playing a game that has lasted over 10,000+ years. The Imperium has no benchmark for something like that. They can only act in a life time, while the lifetime of Chaos is eternal.

See the only real issue I have with that theory (not discounting it mind you, I do enjoy the power play that is being shown in the Chaos forces), is Abaddon has one claim to fame that no one else, in the entirety of the 40k universe can make: he has managed to forge the greater whole of Chaos forces into a unified front, not once, not twice, not three times, hell not even four times. No, he's managed to do this 13 times! Not even Horus accomplished that. And while there is the point that it's not an 'army' per say, I think that also misses the core point. The four Chaos gods hate one another. The Chaos Legions have millennia old rivalries, The Daemon Primarchs were practically at each others throats before they became Daemons. You have half the renegade forces trying to kill the other half on a daily basis because they didn't use the right shade of red for the Khorne runs they drew. Abaddon has managed to take all of that, and point it in the direct he needed it go in, not once, but 13 freaking times!!!! Even Horus didn't accomplish that!

When the Imperium talks about threats, sure Huron is on the list. They're not going to ignore him. He is a threat. In that area, where his power base is. He's not considered a threat to the world of Terra. maybe an annoyance to it. But Abaddon... he's a threat that has his sights set very firmly on Terra. And the High Lords know it. Abaddon is some Chaos Lord who might some day turn out to be a major threat. He IS the major threat today. And despite throwing everything they possibly can at him to eliminate said threat, he is still a threat. They've sent entire assassin temples after the guy and he's still here.

If Abs does manage to burn Terra just to be stabbed in the back by Huron, they will need to radically change Huron's position of power. He doesn't have the ability to direct the forces of Chaos the way Abaddon does. He would be Warmaster for all of a day before the forces of Chaos ripped itself apart and him along with it.

Excellent point, but I can address this in the context of the plot hook I have mentioned. Which is great because this means evolution and cooperation; we're on the same page and that always feels good.

True, Huron is a bit of an annoyance, but one who is left to persist and continues to draw resources from Cadia. That's the biggest problem with Huron. He's putting straws on a camels back that is about to break. Same as the Xenos, corruption in the inside, etc. It's all pressure and Abbadon is going to be the anvil on top of it all.

Something else to consider is that, while there have been 13 Black Crusades, it is suggested that Abbadon has not been at the head of them all, but rather "a powerful Chaos lord emerges to blah-blah," per the CSM-dex and then when it comes to the timeline, Abbadon is only represented in maybe 4 or 5 of those scenarios. That said, it is still very possible and reasonable that he was in charge of them all, but I cannot be certain.

Besides that though, per Codex: Daemons, while the Chaos Gods loathe eachother and battle endlessly in the Immaterium, they are unified in one singular objective, which is breaching real space with warp space. When something emerges that truly threatens Chaos, the Ruinous Powers unite to eliminate that threat or exploit an unforseen boon and will do so through the nomination of guys like Abbadon and other such things. And it's also a bit of a misnomer to think that the Ruinous Powers wouldn't get along, since their entire existence revolves around "the Great Game." They can't ever win their "Great Game" because to do so would render the Warp still and they would all die, which is no fun for anyone.

Since Abbadon has confessed that he doesn't really care about the Gods, it's safe to say the feeling is mutual and the Gods have no problem raising a young Huron Blackheart to usurp the Traitor King after his mission is accomplished. Going back to my scenario, Horus was there to birth the Chaos Space Marines and cocoon the Emperor for his 10,000 metamorphosis into a Chaos God in balance with another rising Chaos God (Ahriman), Abbadon is there to open the cocoon and claim the Imperium for Chaos, and Huron could be there to hold and further those positions after the job is done.

My favorite reference for all of this is the Liber Malefact in the CSM Codex. In that, you see very clear roles and divisions in the prophecy of the fall of Terra by mentioning Horus as the Warmonger and Abbadon as the Traitor King. They are tasked to specific rules and their selfish hubris is what sees them succeed and inevitably fall forever to Chaos, while the laughter of thirsting Gods resounds for all to hear, both Daemon and Mortal alike.

 Kain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
He never managed to do any real damage.

Oh no, with the 13th Black Crusade he's done horrific damage by breaching the Cadian gate and setting foot on Cadia. The problem is that the 13th Black Crusade is the first time he's made an actual notable victory besides previous logistic runs labeled crusades or failed battles.

The difficulty is that given that the mortal followers of Chaos as a whole number less than the soldiers of the Imperium, he may run into the same problems the Axis did in WW2 when they tried to take on the world. Not enough manpower or especially fleet power to win out in the end. He knows the Imperium is currently busy with the rise of the Xenos, so right now is his best shot at victory while the Imperium is distracted.

It's also noted that the Chaos Gods know that Abaddon doesn't really care about them and just wants to make his own Imperium and would gladly abandon them the moment he had the chance to have the power to himself. So they might yank his chain anyway.

Of course...someone might just beat him to the emperor.

IIRC, isn't it actually stated somewhere that Abaddon is just the unwitting pawn of Belakor? But yes, for Abaddon, the 13th Crusade will likely be a very short lived victory for him before he either is backstabbed by the Chaos Gods for failing to show respect, Belakor disposes of him and seizes direct command of Abaddon's forces, or he's killed by some space marine champion. Hilariously though if Abaddon actually was respectful and didn't blatantly use Chaos as a tool, he might have been able to take Cadia by so simply asking Nurgle to spill doubtworm onto the planet or ripping open a portal to the warp on the planet's surface and letting Daemons overrun the planet in their endless numbers. If Lorgar for example was to lead such a crusade, Cadia would likely be lost in a matter of weeks or less. Abaddon however I doubt is even capable of summoning hordes of daemons.

Be'Lakor offered Abaddon his help.

Abaddon noticed that every time he followed Be'Lakor's advice he started getting a long string of pyrhhic victories or outright setbacks.

So now he always keeps a close eye on Be'Lakor because he's now aware that Be'Lakor wants to be the only champion of Chaos and sees Abaddon as an upstart youngling.

Be'Lakor is probably Abaddon's biggest danger given that Abaddon has no control over him, where he goes, nor does he enjoy a particular advantage in favor from the gods over the first Daemon Prince. Since while Be'Lakor is a fickle wanderer of the aethyr, Abaddon only cares for chaos as far as he can use it.

Huron is another big threat, and Erebus is yet another person who believes that Abaddon does not deserve his position.

So he has to watch his back from the Corsairs, the Word Bearers, and the first Daemon Prince.

It's amazing he's survived as long as he has. Some entity finds him amusing in the Warp. Otherwise Be'Lakor should have just popped out of the nearest Warp Rift or had his minions pop Abaddon's void shields mid-flight.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Original metal cast had a separate drachn'yen that attached at the wrist. It was held on by the fickle wills of The Big Four and a lot of praying.

Just a slight correction, in 40K terminology The Big Four actually refers to Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Ultramarines. It was a term Jes Goodwin used when he was talking about the history and conventions behind the principle GW Space Marine chapters.

So I'm fairly certain if The Big Four had their way, Abaddon's arms would fall off constantly.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
He never managed to do any real damage.

Oh no, with the 13th Black Crusade he's done horrific damage by breaching the Cadian gate and setting foot on Cadia. The problem is that the 13th Black Crusade is the first time he's made an actual notable victory besides previous logistic runs labeled crusades or failed battles.

The difficulty is that given that the mortal followers of Chaos as a whole number less than the soldiers of the Imperium, he may run into the same problems the Axis did in WW2 when they tried to take on the world. Not enough manpower or especially fleet power to win out in the end. He knows the Imperium is currently busy with the rise of the Xenos, so right now is his best shot at victory while the Imperium is distracted.

It's also noted that the Chaos Gods know that Abaddon doesn't really care about them and just wants to make his own Imperium and would gladly abandon them the moment he had the chance to have the power to himself. So they might yank his chain anyway.

Of course...someone might just beat him to the emperor.

IIRC, isn't it actually stated somewhere that Abaddon is just the unwitting pawn of Belakor? But yes, for Abaddon, the 13th Crusade will likely be a very short lived victory for him before he either is backstabbed by the Chaos Gods for failing to show respect, Belakor disposes of him and seizes direct command of Abaddon's forces, or he's killed by some space marine champion. Hilariously though if Abaddon actually was respectful and didn't blatantly use Chaos as a tool, he might have been able to take Cadia by so simply asking Nurgle to spill doubtworm onto the planet or ripping open a portal to the warp on the planet's surface and letting Daemons overrun the planet in their endless numbers. If Lorgar for example was to lead such a crusade, Cadia would likely be lost in a matter of weeks or less. Abaddon however I doubt is even capable of summoning hordes of daemons.

Be'Lakor offered Abaddon his help.

Abaddon noticed that every time he followed Be'Lakor's advice he started getting a long string of pyrhhic victories or outright setbacks.

So now he always keeps a close eye on Be'Lakor because he's now aware that Be'Lakor wants to be the only champion of Chaos and sees Abaddon as an upstart youngling.

Be'Lakor is probably Abaddon's biggest danger given that Abaddon has no control over him, where he goes, nor does he enjoy a particular advantage in favor from the gods over the first Daemon Prince. Since while Be'Lakor is a fickle wanderer of the aethyr, Abaddon only cares for chaos as far as he can use it.

Huron is another big threat, and Erebus is yet another person who believes that Abaddon does not deserve his position.

So he has to watch his back from the Corsairs, the Word Bearers, and the first Daemon Prince.

It's amazing he's survived as long as he has. Some entity finds him amusing in the Warp. Otherwise Be'Lakor should have just popped out of the nearest Warp Rift or had his minions pop Abaddon's void shields mid-flight.

and thats the point that makes Abaddon scary from an in-universe stand point. There's been a billion and one ways Abaddon could have been killed, or lost, or usurped. And he's still here. Oh, and not only is he still here, he's managed to become THE big name in threats to the Imperium. Oh and not only is he THE big name, but he is the only entity to ever unit the whole of Chaos forces more then once.

Make what ever counter statements you like. Story Wise, Abs has a lot going for him that no one else does.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
He never managed to do any real damage.

Oh no, with the 13th Black Crusade he's done horrific damage by breaching the Cadian gate and setting foot on Cadia. The problem is that the 13th Black Crusade is the first time he's made an actual notable victory besides previous logistic runs labeled crusades or failed battles.

The difficulty is that given that the mortal followers of Chaos as a whole number less than the soldiers of the Imperium, he may run into the same problems the Axis did in WW2 when they tried to take on the world. Not enough manpower or especially fleet power to win out in the end. He knows the Imperium is currently busy with the rise of the Xenos, so right now is his best shot at victory while the Imperium is distracted.

It's also noted that the Chaos Gods know that Abaddon doesn't really care about them and just wants to make his own Imperium and would gladly abandon them the moment he had the chance to have the power to himself. So they might yank his chain anyway.

Of course...someone might just beat him to the emperor.

IIRC, isn't it actually stated somewhere that Abaddon is just the unwitting pawn of Belakor? But yes, for Abaddon, the 13th Crusade will likely be a very short lived victory for him before he either is backstabbed by the Chaos Gods for failing to show respect, Belakor disposes of him and seizes direct command of Abaddon's forces, or he's killed by some space marine champion. Hilariously though if Abaddon actually was respectful and didn't blatantly use Chaos as a tool, he might have been able to take Cadia by so simply asking Nurgle to spill doubtworm onto the planet or ripping open a portal to the warp on the planet's surface and letting Daemons overrun the planet in their endless numbers. If Lorgar for example was to lead such a crusade, Cadia would likely be lost in a matter of weeks or less. Abaddon however I doubt is even capable of summoning hordes of daemons.

Be'Lakor offered Abaddon his help.

Abaddon noticed that every time he followed Be'Lakor's advice he started getting a long string of pyrhhic victories or outright setbacks.

So now he always keeps a close eye on Be'Lakor because he's now aware that Be'Lakor wants to be the only champion of Chaos and sees Abaddon as an upstart youngling.

Be'Lakor is probably Abaddon's biggest danger given that Abaddon has no control over him, where he goes, nor does he enjoy a particular advantage in favor from the gods over the first Daemon Prince. Since while Be'Lakor is a fickle wanderer of the aethyr, Abaddon only cares for chaos as far as he can use it.

Huron is another big threat, and Erebus is yet another person who believes that Abaddon does not deserve his position.

So he has to watch his back from the Corsairs, the Word Bearers, and the first Daemon Prince.

It's amazing he's survived as long as he has. Some entity finds him amusing in the Warp. Otherwise Be'Lakor should have just popped out of the nearest Warp Rift or had his minions pop Abaddon's void shields mid-flight.

The obvious answer is that Be'Lakor is a migrant from Fantasy Battle who was only recently shoe-horned back into the fluff.

The other answer is that Be'Lakor goes around slaughtering his fellow Daemons as well as mortal champions of chaos, so he probably was a bit busy trying to prove his manliness in the warp.

Sooner or later though, Drach'nyen will be tested by the blade of shadows.

 Kain wrote:
What Chaos players don't like to talk about is how Chaos got stomped on in the Specialist games, most importantly BFG.

The Imperium controlling the spacelanes at Cadia didn't come out of nowhere.

You can have the best army ever, but if you don't have the ships to get it off planet it's just orbital bombardment bait.

Actually, this is the proverbial "piece of glass holding the artery shut so you don't bleed out." I've heard of this too, that the Imperium controls the space over Cadia, while Chaos somehow holds the ground.

The problem with this is that the Navy is still battling Chaos Navy (even if it's been rolled back) and in doing so, they cannot reinforce Cadia as effectively as they wish they could, lest they miss their resupply or the Chaos forces simply shoot it out of the sky or worse (Nurgle turns a drop pod into a metal colostomy bag). But those Necron Pilars are what's keeping the door shut on Chaos, so if they resort to orbital bombardment, they risk blowing out the pylons and seriously throwing the front doors open for a Chaos incursion.

As it stands, the only reason the fighting is stagnant now is because those pillars are preventing a massive warp incursion. Give Chaos their Warp allies, and it's "Game over man! Game over!!"

Really, I think it's the Imperium that is in the biggest pickle jar right now. They have navy assets they can't use effectively, and Abbadon only has to bide his time and wait for the pilars to come down one at a time, whether through Naval Assault, the Blackstone Fortresses or perhaps Abbadon himself clubbing the shiza out of them with his sword till they break.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:

The obvious answer is that Be'Lakor is a migrant from Fantasy Battle who was only recently shoe-horned back into the fluff.

The other answer is that Be'Lakor goes around slaughtering his fellow Daemons as well as mortal champions of chaos, so he probably was a bit busy trying to prove his manliness in the warp.

Sooner or later though, Drach'nyen will be tested by the blade of shadows.

I think this goes back into the Daemons codex. The Warp is a big place full of entities larger than the Ruinous Four. The only problem with them is that they're all insane, selfish and self serving. They act more like forces of nature than sentient beings. Now when it comes to Be'lakor, it is said that Daemon Princes and powerful entities of the sort who have gained enough influence, can carve out their own niche in the Warp, including a following of lesser daemons and the like. Granted, they could be easily squashed if so wished, but the Chaos Gods are fickle and Be'lakor has done something in the warp and real space to ensure his place. Is it permanent? What is permanent to the timelessness of the warp?

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Kain wrote:
What Chaos players don't like to talk about is how Chaos got stomped on in the Specialist games, most importantly BFG.

The Imperium controlling the spacelanes at Cadia didn't come out of nowhere.

You can have the best army ever, but if you don't have the ships to get it off planet it's just orbital bombardment bait.

Actually, this is the proverbial "piece of glass holding the artery shut so you don't bleed out." I've heard of this too, that the Imperium controls the space over Cadia, while Chaos somehow holds the ground.

The problem with this is that the Navy is still battling Chaos Navy (even if it's been rolled back) and in doing so, they cannot reinforce Cadia as effectively as they wish they could, lest they miss their resupply or the Chaos forces simply shoot it out of the sky or worse (Nurgle turns a drop pod into a metal colostomy bag). But those Necron Pilars are what's keeping the door shut on Chaos, so if they resort to orbital bombardment, they risk blowing out the pylons and seriously throwing the front doors open for a Chaos incursion.

As it stands, the only reason the fighting is stagnant now is because those pillars are preventing a massive warp incursion. Give Chaos their Warp allies, and it's "Game over man! Game over!!"

Really, I think it's the Imperium that is in the biggest pickle jar right now. They have navy assets they can't use effectively, and Abbadon only has to bide his time and wait for the pilars to come down one at a time, whether through Naval Assault, the Blackstone Fortresses or perhaps Abbadon himself clubbing the shiza out of them with his sword till they break.

Methinks you don't quite understand what controlling the spacelanes entails.

To use a WW2 analogy, by 1944, the allies controlled the Atlantic and the Japanese were barely able to hold onto the Pacific anymore. The Axis could throw some resistance here and there, but they couldn't really have stopped the Allies from making the naval maneuvers they wanted to, only really slow them down. Even Leyte gulf was the last roll of the dice that ultimately would have changed little for the Japanese if they had won.

The Allies could have been said to have controlled the waterlanes by the late era of world war 2. The axis could still make some maneuvers in the waters, but the allies controlled the waters, whereas in 1943 and 42, the waters were still said to be contested by the axis in the Atlantic, while the Pacific remained contested until late 44.

The Imperials similarly control the spacelanes. As it is controlled, it is not contested. Because the Chaos players were scrubs at BFG.

Knowing GW's love of stagnation and having third parties come out of nowhere, the likely end to the 13th black crusade is a Necron fleet dropping out of nowhere and annihilating both sides and building more pylons.

Also: a hilarious tidbit.

The Imperium could field more ships at Armanah Prime to fight one Necron Dynasty than Abaddon had in his entire fleet.

 Kain wrote:
Be'Lakor offered Abaddon his help.

Abaddon noticed that every time he followed Be'Lakor's advice he started getting a long string of pyrhhic victories or outright setbacks.

So now he always keeps a close eye on Be'Lakor because he's now aware that Be'Lakor wants to be the only champion of Chaos and sees Abaddon as an upstart youngling.

Be'Lakor is probably Abaddon's biggest danger given that Abaddon has no control over him, where he goes, nor does he enjoy a particular advantage in favor from the gods over the first Daemon Prince. Since while Be'Lakor is a fickle wanderer of the aethyr, Abaddon only cares for chaos as far as he can use it.

Abaddon = Littlefinger
Be'lakor = Varys
40k = GoT

 Kain wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Kain wrote:
What Chaos players don't like to talk about is how Chaos got stomped on in the Specialist games, most importantly BFG.

The Imperium controlling the spacelanes at Cadia didn't come out of nowhere.

You can have the best army ever, but if you don't have the ships to get it off planet it's just orbital bombardment bait.

Actually, this is the proverbial "piece of glass holding the artery shut so you don't bleed out." I've heard of this too, that the Imperium controls the space over Cadia, while Chaos somehow holds the ground.

The problem with this is that the Navy is still battling Chaos Navy (even if it's been rolled back) and in doing so, they cannot reinforce Cadia as effectively as they wish they could, lest they miss their resupply or the Chaos forces simply shoot it out of the sky or worse (Nurgle turns a drop pod into a metal colostomy bag). But those Necron Pilars are what's keeping the door shut on Chaos, so if they resort to orbital bombardment, they risk blowing out the pylons and seriously throwing the front doors open for a Chaos incursion.

As it stands, the only reason the fighting is stagnant now is because those pillars are preventing a massive warp incursion. Give Chaos their Warp allies, and it's "Game over man! Game over!!"

Really, I think it's the Imperium that is in the biggest pickle jar right now. They have navy assets they can't use effectively, and Abbadon only has to bide his time and wait for the pilars to come down one at a time, whether through Naval Assault, the Blackstone Fortresses or perhaps Abbadon himself clubbing the shiza out of them with his sword till they break.

Methinks you don't quite understand what controlling the spacelanes entails.

To use a WW2 analogy, by 1944, the allies controlled the Atlantic and the Japanese were barely able to hold onto the Pacific anymore. The Axis could throw some resistance here and there, but they couldn't really have stopped the Allies from making the naval maneuvers they wanted to, only really slow them down. Even Leyte gulf was the last roll of the dice that ultimately would have changed little for the Japanese if they had won.

The Allies could have been said to have controlled the waterlanes by the late era of world war 2. The axis could still make some maneuvers in the waters, but the allies controlled the waters, whereas in 1943 and 42, the waters were still said to be contested by the axis in the Atlantic, while the Pacific remained contested until late 44.

The Imperials similarly control the spacelanes. As it is controlled, it is not contested. Because the Chaos players were scrubs at BFG.

Knowing GW's love of stagnation and having third parties come out of nowhere, the likely end to the 13th black crusade is a Necron fleet dropping out of nowhere and annihilating both sides and building more pylons.

Also: a hilarious tidbit.

The Imperium could field more ships at Armanah Prime to fight one Necron Dynasty than Abaddon had in his entire fleet.

While a very good analogy there is one flaw in it as a comparative analogy. In the 40s sea travel was the only means to move material across the ocean. In 40k, while space travel is still the most.... reliable method, it's not the only one. Also in the case of WWII we're talking moving materials and man power from one location on a planet to another location on the planet. Talking about planetary control in 40, the same doesn't necessarily apply. Chances are Cadia has factories that are used to churn out replacement munitions and war machines. They have repair bays that can be used to repair damaged vehicles and weapons. The Chaos forces have access to warp travel on a planetary scale so they can move resource in and out of cadia with out space travel, though it's likely more dangerous and unpredictable. So yes, controlling the space lanes into and out of Cadia: Definitely a big deal. No debate on that point.
But there are other avenues that some forces have access to while others donlt make it a more convoluted problem to really look at. in the case of Chaos, simply cutting off a planet via space lanes may not automatically cut off their forces from supplies.

Maverike_prime wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Kain wrote:
What Chaos players don't like to talk about is how Chaos got stomped on in the Specialist games, most importantly BFG.

The Imperium controlling the spacelanes at Cadia didn't come out of nowhere.

You can have the best army ever, but if you don't have the ships to get it off planet it's just orbital bombardment bait.

Actually, this is the proverbial "piece of glass holding the artery shut so you don't bleed out." I've heard of this too, that the Imperium controls the space over Cadia, while Chaos somehow holds the ground.

The problem with this is that the Navy is still battling Chaos Navy (even if it's been rolled back) and in doing so, they cannot reinforce Cadia as effectively as they wish they could, lest they miss their resupply or the Chaos forces simply shoot it out of the sky or worse (Nurgle turns a drop pod into a metal colostomy bag). But those Necron Pilars are what's keeping the door shut on Chaos, so if they resort to orbital bombardment, they risk blowing out the pylons and seriously throwing the front doors open for a Chaos incursion.

As it stands, the only reason the fighting is stagnant now is because those pillars are preventing a massive warp incursion. Give Chaos their Warp allies, and it's "Game over man! Game over!!"

Really, I think it's the Imperium that is in the biggest pickle jar right now. They have navy assets they can't use effectively, and Abbadon only has to bide his time and wait for the pilars to come down one at a time, whether through Naval Assault, the Blackstone Fortresses or perhaps Abbadon himself clubbing the shiza out of them with his sword till they break.

Methinks you don't quite understand what controlling the spacelanes entails.

To use a WW2 analogy, by 1944, the allies controlled the Atlantic and the Japanese were barely able to hold onto the Pacific anymore. The Axis could throw some resistance here and there, but they couldn't really have stopped the Allies from making the naval maneuvers they wanted to, only really slow them down. Even Leyte gulf was the last roll of the dice that ultimately would have changed little for the Japanese if they had won.

The Allies could have been said to have controlled the waterlanes by the late era of world war 2. The axis could still make some maneuvers in the waters, but the allies controlled the waters, whereas in 1943 and 42, the waters were still said to be contested by the axis in the Atlantic, while the Pacific remained contested until late 44.

The Imperials similarly control the spacelanes. As it is controlled, it is not contested. Because the Chaos players were scrubs at BFG.

Knowing GW's love of stagnation and having third parties come out of nowhere, the likely end to the 13th black crusade is a Necron fleet dropping out of nowhere and annihilating both sides and building more pylons.

Also: a hilarious tidbit.

The Imperium could field more ships at Armanah Prime to fight one Necron Dynasty than Abaddon had in his entire fleet.

While a very good analogy there is one flaw in it as a comparative analogy. In the 40s sea travel was the only means to move material across the ocean. In 40k, while space travel is still the most.... reliable method, it's not the only one. Also in the case of WWII we're talking moving materials and man power from one location on a planet to another location on the planet. Talking about planetary control in 40, the same doesn't necessarily apply. Chances are Cadia has factories that are used to churn out replacement munitions and war machines. They have repair bays that can be used to repair damaged vehicles and weapons. The Chaos forces have access to warp travel on a planetary scale so they can move resource in and out of cadia with out space travel, though it's likely more dangerous and unpredictable. So yes, controlling the space lanes into and out of Cadia: Definitely a big deal. No debate on that point.
But there are other avenues that some forces have access to while others donlt make it a more convoluted problem to really look at. in the case of Chaos, simply cutting off a planet via space lanes may not automatically cut off their forces from supplies.

It does mean that the Imperium can simply blast abaddon from space.

 Kain wrote:

Maverike_prime wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Kain wrote:
What Chaos players don't like to talk about is how Chaos got stomped on in the Specialist games, most importantly BFG.

The Imperium controlling the spacelanes at Cadia didn't come out of nowhere.

You can have the best army ever, but if you don't have the ships to get it off planet it's just orbital bombardment bait.

Actually, this is the proverbial "piece of glass holding the artery shut so you don't bleed out." I've heard of this too, that the Imperium controls the space over Cadia, while Chaos somehow holds the ground.

The problem with this is that the Navy is still battling Chaos Navy (even if it's been rolled back) and in doing so, they cannot reinforce Cadia as effectively as they wish they could, lest they miss their resupply or the Chaos forces simply shoot it out of the sky or worse (Nurgle turns a drop pod into a metal colostomy bag). But those Necron Pilars are what's keeping the door shut on Chaos, so if they resort to orbital bombardment, they risk blowing out the pylons and seriously throwing the front doors open for a Chaos incursion.

As it stands, the only reason the fighting is stagnant now is because those pillars are preventing a massive warp incursion. Give Chaos their Warp allies, and it's "Game over man! Game over!!"

Really, I think it's the Imperium that is in the biggest pickle jar right now. They have navy assets they can't use effectively, and Abbadon only has to bide his time and wait for the pilars to come down one at a time, whether through Naval Assault, the Blackstone Fortresses or perhaps Abbadon himself clubbing the shiza out of them with his sword till they break.

Methinks you don't quite understand what controlling the spacelanes entails.

To use a WW2 analogy, by 1944, the allies controlled the Atlantic and the Japanese were barely able to hold onto the Pacific anymore. The Axis could throw some resistance here and there, but they couldn't really have stopped the Allies from making the naval maneuvers they wanted to, only really slow them down. Even Leyte gulf was the last roll of the dice that ultimately would have changed little for the Japanese if they had won.

The Allies could have been said to have controlled the waterlanes by the late era of world war 2. The axis could still make some maneuvers in the waters, but the allies controlled the waters, whereas in 1943 and 42, the waters were still said to be contested by the axis in the Atlantic, while the Pacific remained contested until late 44.

The Imperials similarly control the spacelanes. As it is controlled, it is not contested. Because the Chaos players were scrubs at BFG.

Knowing GW's love of stagnation and having third parties come out of nowhere, the likely end to the 13th black crusade is a Necron fleet dropping out of nowhere and annihilating both sides and building more pylons.

Also: a hilarious tidbit.

The Imperium could field more ships at Armanah Prime to fight one Necron Dynasty than Abaddon had in his entire fleet.

While a very good analogy there is one flaw in it as a comparative analogy. In the 40s sea travel was the only means to move material across the ocean. In 40k, while space travel is still the most.... reliable method, it's not the only one. Also in the case of WWII we're talking moving materials and man power from one location on a planet to another location on the planet. Talking about planetary control in 40, the same doesn't necessarily apply. Chances are Cadia has factories that are used to churn out replacement munitions and war machines. They have repair bays that can be used to repair damaged vehicles and weapons. The Chaos forces have access to warp travel on a planetary scale so they can move resource in and out of cadia with out space travel, though it's likely more dangerous and unpredictable. So yes, controlling the space lanes into and out of Cadia: Definitely a big deal. No debate on that point.
But there are other avenues that some forces have access to while others donlt make it a more convoluted problem to really look at. in the case of Chaos, simply cutting off a planet via space lanes may not automatically cut off their forces from supplies.

It does mean that the Imperium can simply blast abaddon from space.

'Cept that it doesn't. Orbital bombardment, while a powerful tool can only do so much with out destroying the planet itself. So lets say they go to lay down Orbital bombardment. And the Chaos Forces take shelter underground, and by underground I meet a few miles underground. Deep enough that with out extreme, concentrated, planet cracking orbital bombardment, that blasts aren't touching them. Cadia still stands as the last staging point before hitting the Eye of terror. They don't want to loose it. And the Imperium does know that the obilisks have something to do with the fact that there's a stable path into the eye at all. Will that path remain if the planet is destroyed? *shrugs*

 Kain wrote:

Maverike_prime wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Kain wrote:
What Chaos players don't like to talk about is how Chaos got stomped on in the Specialist games, most importantly BFG.

The Imperium controlling the spacelanes at Cadia didn't come out of nowhere.

You can have the best army ever, but if you don't have the ships to get it off planet it's just orbital bombardment bait.

Actually, this is the proverbial "piece of glass holding the artery shut so you don't bleed out." I've heard of this too, that the Imperium controls the space over Cadia, while Chaos somehow holds the ground.

The problem with this is that the Navy is still battling Chaos Navy (even if it's been rolled back) and in doing so, they cannot reinforce Cadia as effectively as they wish they could, lest they miss their resupply or the Chaos forces simply shoot it out of the sky or worse (Nurgle turns a drop pod into a metal colostomy bag). But those Necron Pilars are what's keeping the door shut on Chaos, so if they resort to orbital bombardment, they risk blowing out the pylons and seriously throwing the front doors open for a Chaos incursion.

As it stands, the only reason the fighting is stagnant now is because those pillars are preventing a massive warp incursion. Give Chaos their Warp allies, and it's "Game over man! Game over!!"

Really, I think it's the Imperium that is in the biggest pickle jar right now. They have navy assets they can't use effectively, and Abbadon only has to bide his time and wait for the pilars to come down one at a time, whether through Naval Assault, the Blackstone Fortresses or perhaps Abbadon himself clubbing the shiza out of them with his sword till they break.

Methinks you don't quite understand what controlling the spacelanes entails.

To use a WW2 analogy, by 1944, the allies controlled the Atlantic and the Japanese were barely able to hold onto the Pacific anymore. The Axis could throw some resistance here and there, but they couldn't really have stopped the Allies from making the naval maneuvers they wanted to, only really slow them down. Even Leyte gulf was the last roll of the dice that ultimately would have changed little for the Japanese if they had won.

The Allies could have been said to have controlled the waterlanes by the late era of world war 2. The axis could still make some maneuvers in the waters, but the allies controlled the waters, whereas in 1943 and 42, the waters were still said to be contested by the axis in the Atlantic, while the Pacific remained contested until late 44.

The Imperials similarly control the spacelanes. As it is controlled, it is not contested. Because the Chaos players were scrubs at BFG.

Knowing GW's love of stagnation and having third parties come out of nowhere, the likely end to the 13th black crusade is a Necron fleet dropping out of nowhere and annihilating both sides and building more pylons.

Also: a hilarious tidbit.

The Imperium could field more ships at Armanah Prime to fight one Necron Dynasty than Abaddon had in his entire fleet.

While a very good analogy there is one flaw in it as a comparative analogy. In the 40s sea travel was the only means to move material across the ocean. In 40k, while space travel is still the most.... reliable method, it's not the only one. Also in the case of WWII we're talking moving materials and man power from one location on a planet to another location on the planet. Talking about planetary control in 40, the same doesn't necessarily apply. Chances are Cadia has factories that are used to churn out replacement munitions and war machines. They have repair bays that can be used to repair damaged vehicles and weapons. The Chaos forces have access to warp travel on a planetary scale so they can move resource in and out of cadia with out space travel, though it's likely more dangerous and unpredictable. So yes, controlling the space lanes into and out of Cadia: Definitely a big deal. No debate on that point.
But there are other avenues that some forces have access to while others donlt make it a more convoluted problem to really look at. in the case of Chaos, simply cutting off a planet via space lanes may not automatically cut off their forces from supplies.

It does mean that the Imperium can simply blast abaddon from space.

They can't. Doing so would destroy the pylons keeping the Eye of Terror OMNOMMIN' the Cadian gate completely, planets aren't free citizen, and orbital bombardment is tricky in 40K if the enemy has acquired any void shields. If they're shielded you're liable to blow up the planet you're trying to save, or break something brittle.

Maverike_prime wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Maverike_prime wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Kain wrote:
What Chaos players don't like to talk about is how Chaos got stomped on in the Specialist games, most importantly BFG.

The Imperium controlling the spacelanes at Cadia didn't come out of nowhere.

You can have the best army ever, but if you don't have the ships to get it off planet it's just orbital bombardment bait.

Actually, this is the proverbial "piece of glass holding the artery shut so you don't bleed out." I've heard of this too, that the Imperium controls the space over Cadia, while Chaos somehow holds the ground.

The problem with this is that the Navy is still battling Chaos Navy (even if it's been rolled back) and in doing so, they cannot reinforce Cadia as effectively as they wish they could, lest they miss their resupply or the Chaos forces simply shoot it out of the sky or worse (Nurgle turns a drop pod into a metal colostomy bag). But those Necron Pilars are what's keeping the door shut on Chaos, so if they resort to orbital bombardment, they risk blowing out the pylons and seriously throwing the front doors open for a Chaos incursion.

As it stands, the only reason the fighting is stagnant now is because those pillars are preventing a massive warp incursion. Give Chaos their Warp allies, and it's "Game over man! Game over!!"

Really, I think it's the Imperium that is in the biggest pickle jar right now. They have navy assets they can't use effectively, and Abbadon only has to bide his time and wait for the pilars to come down one at a time, whether through Naval Assault, the Blackstone Fortresses or perhaps Abbadon himself clubbing the shiza out of them with his sword till they break.

Methinks you don't quite understand what controlling the spacelanes entails.

To use a WW2 analogy, by 1944, the allies controlled the Atlantic and the Japanese were barely able to hold onto the Pacific anymore. The Axis could throw some resistance here and there, but they couldn't really have stopped the Allies from making the naval maneuvers they wanted to, only really slow them down. Even Leyte gulf was the last roll of the dice that ultimately would have changed little for the Japanese if they had won.

The Allies could have been said to have controlled the waterlanes by the late era of world war 2. The axis could still make some maneuvers in the waters, but the allies controlled the waters, whereas in 1943 and 42, the waters were still said to be contested by the axis in the Atlantic, while the Pacific remained contested until late 44.

The Imperials similarly control the spacelanes. As it is controlled, it is not contested. Because the Chaos players were scrubs at BFG.

Knowing GW's love of stagnation and having third parties come out of nowhere, the likely end to the 13th black crusade is a Necron fleet dropping out of nowhere and annihilating both sides and building more pylons.

Also: a hilarious tidbit.

The Imperium could field more ships at Armanah Prime to fight one Necron Dynasty than Abaddon had in his entire fleet.

While a very good analogy there is one flaw in it as a comparative analogy. In the 40s sea travel was the only means to move material across the ocean. In 40k, while space travel is still the most.... reliable method, it's not the only one. Also in the case of WWII we're talking moving materials and man power from one location on a planet to another location on the planet. Talking about planetary control in 40, the same doesn't necessarily apply. Chances are Cadia has factories that are used to churn out replacement munitions and war machines. They have repair bays that can be used to repair damaged vehicles and weapons. The Chaos forces have access to warp travel on a planetary scale so they can move resource in and out of cadia with out space travel, though it's likely more dangerous and unpredictable. So yes, controlling the space lanes into and out of Cadia: Definitely a big deal. No debate on that point.
But there are other avenues that some forces have access to while others donlt make it a more convoluted problem to really look at. in the case of Chaos, simply cutting off a planet via space lanes may not automatically cut off their forces from supplies.

It does mean that the Imperium can simply blast abaddon from space.

'Cept that it doesn't. Orbital bombardment, while a powerful tool can only do so much with out destroying the planet itself. So lets say they go to lay down Orbital bombardment. And the Chaos Forces take shelter underground, and by underground I meet a few miles underground. Deep enough that with out extreme, concentrated, planet cracking orbital bombardment, that blasts aren't touching them. Cadia still stands as the last staging point before hitting the Eye of terror. They don't want to loose it. And the Imperium does know that the obilisks have something to do with the fact that there's a stable path into the eye at all. Will that path remain if the planet is destroyed? *shrugs*

40K ship mounted weapons range from the gigatons to terratons, and petatons for the really big guns. Digging deep down won't save you from that kind of firepower, even if the blast doesn't kill you, the subsequent earthquakes will. The only protection is seeking cover in another dimension or popping up some void shields.

 Kain wrote:

Except Eldrad's soulstone overwhelmed the Blackstone fortresses' systems and took over control of it.

So now the galaxy's greatest farsteer is now a planet destroying superweapon.

Whoops.

Maverike_prime wrote:
Eldrads stone took over 1 blackstone fortress.

Eh?
Gonna have to ask for a source on that, because from what I remember Eldar got eaten by the Blackstone aaaand that was it, besides from some of the Soulstones he had split bits of himself into at the start of the campaign retaining their glow.

Centuries of malice and hatred filled
Eldrad’s mind. Centuries of pain,
torment and anguish. The heart of
the Talisman burned with rage at
what had been done to it, and as he
opened his mind to its pain, he
knew that he had made a grave
mistake in attempting to reach out to
what had once made this ancient
Talisman Eldar. The anguished
remnants of the Talisman’s
consciousness had long since died,
replaced with a vile, hateful core of
ever-thirsting darkness, and as it
reached out to claim him, he realised
in horror that it was no random
power of the Dark Gods that had
corrupted the Talisman. It was the
power of She Who Thirsts, The
Great Enemy… Slaanesh.
Eldrad tried to free his spirit
from the Talisman, but it was already
too late. The darkness reached out to
swallow him and his soul was
dragged screaming into the depthless
heart of the Blackstone Fortress for
all eternity

Someone posted a tutorial on painting the 75mm Abaddon. At one point he posted a picture of the painted model without the arms. This seems to have combined with the difficult to getting the old metal version's arms to stay on the make this meme.

I guess.

I got Abbadon's model when it first came out and the first thing I did was chop off that ridiculous top knot.

Also, I think Lysander could take him in a fight.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I got Abbadon's model when it first came out and the first thing I did was chop off that ridiculous top knot.

Also, I think Lysander could take him in a fight.

I don't really know what this has to with Abaddon's arms specially....

 sing your life wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I got Abbadon's model when it first came out and the first thing I did was chop off that ridiculous top knot.

Also, I think Lysander could take him in a fight.

I don't really know what this has to with Abaddon's arms specially....

the OP asked who could take Abbadon.

The fluff about Chaos being trapped on Cadia is incorrect. It came from a made up ending on the 40K wiki. The only part of Segmentum Obscuras that The Imperium has down tight is the sector space lanes but it was stated in the campaign letter that they lacked the power to confront the chaos fleet in the systems.

 Veteran of The Long War wrote:
The fluff about Chaos being trapped on Cadia is incorrect. It came from a made up ending on the 40K wiki. The only part of Segmentum Obscuras that The Imperium has down tight is the sector space lanes but it was stated in the campaign letter that they lacked the power to confront the chaos fleet in the systems.

Naturally because for the Imperium, the worst thing for their navy to do is split up and the best thing for Chaos fleet is to pull them out.

I revert to my original position, that Chaos totally curb-stomped Cadia, and GW pulled it back because "Oooh noooo! My Spess Marins!!"

 MWHistorian wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I got Abbadon's model when it first came out and the first thing I did was chop off that ridiculous top knot.

Also, I think Lysander could take him in a fight.

I don't really know what this has to with Abaddon's arms specially....

the OP asked who could take Abbadon.

Oh, I didn't see that

 sing your life wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I got Abbadon's model when it first came out and the first thing I did was chop off that ridiculous top knot.

Also, I think Lysander could take him in a fight.

I don't really know what this has to with Abaddon's arms specially....

the OP asked who could take Abbadon.

Oh, I didn't see that

I asked many things about Abbadon and his relation the 40k universe. Unfortunately, it's stuck to the thread title so far, which has still made for good conversation.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:


I revert to my original position, that Chaos totally curb-stomped Cadia, and GW pulled it back because "Oooh noooo! My Spess Marins!!"

I was there. This is exactly what happened. Chaos won pretty much all the 40K matches (actually, it was Orks who did most of the winning for the forces of disorder, as I recall) while Imps won a majority of BFG battles, at least against Chaos... They got handed their butts by Tau and Necrons, but those were considered 'neutral' factions. GW had been expecting a win for the IoM, or at worst a stalemate, like they got with Armageddon, and were horrified to see that they lost so hard. So, naturally the only thing to do was to wipe away everything that had happened and pretend that it was all a bad dream.

Kind of like that one season of Dallas when they killed Bobby Ewing.

Ghazgkull Mag Uruk Thraka, da profit of da waaagh!could beat dat panzy if ghaz was the one with no arms.After all:If da boss does badly he doesn't turn into chaos spawn-OHMORKWHATSHAPPENINGMEARMFEELSFUNNYARRGH!Mork and Gork sez he's a gud boss and he doesn't have da first warboss or anyfing nasty like that after him.And what WD issue was eldrad krumped?

squidhills wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:


I revert to my original position, that Chaos totally curb-stomped Cadia, and GW pulled it back because "Oooh noooo! My Spess Marins!!"

I was there. This is exactly what happened. Chaos won pretty much all the 40K matches (actually, it was Orks who did most of the winning for the forces of disorder, as I recall) while Imps won a majority of BFG battles, at least against Chaos... They got handed their butts by Tau and Necrons, but those were considered 'neutral' factions. GW had been expecting a win for the IoM, or at worst a stalemate, like they got with Armageddon, and were horrified to see that they lost so hard. So, naturally the only thing to do was to wipe away everything that had happened and pretend that it was all a bad dream.

Kind of like that one season of Dallas when they killed Bobby Ewing.

I'm curious. Why did the Imperium lose so hard? Was it just a Codex power difference or did the Imp players just suck?

I heard that chaos read the imp forums and said they played games that never happened.No idea how true it is.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

squidhills wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:


I revert to my original position, that Chaos totally curb-stomped Cadia, and GW pulled it back because "Oooh noooo! My Spess Marins!!"

I was there. This is exactly what happened. Chaos won pretty much all the 40K matches (actually, it was Orks who did most of the winning for the forces of disorder, as I recall) while Imps won a majority of BFG battles, at least against Chaos... They got handed their butts by Tau and Necrons, but those were considered 'neutral' factions. GW had been expecting a win for the IoM, or at worst a stalemate, like they got with Armageddon, and were horrified to see that they lost so hard. So, naturally the only thing to do was to wipe away everything that had happened and pretend that it was all a bad dream.

Kind of like that one season of Dallas when they killed Bobby Ewing.

I'm curious. Why did the Imperium lose so hard? Was it just a Codex power difference or did the Imp players just suck?

Combination of things. For starters, the 3.5 CSM codex had two very dominant combos.

Perhaps more importantly than that was orginization. There's actually a report made by... somebody out there that goes into detail but basically it came down to Chaos largely uniting under a group called The Triad that lead the group on "raids" and figured out how everything worked. The Imperium on the other hand struggled to stay unified until much later and throughout it all many lone fighters went about roving dumping their reports onto battles such as Cadia (which was basically impossible for Chaos to capture directly). The Imperium's focus on the 13th also lead to Tau getting a massive expansion.

But yeah, GW likely expected the Imperium to win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da krimson barun wrote:
I heard that chaos read the imp forums and said they played games that never happened.No idea how true it is.

Both sides did that really.