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Yeah, a lot of the response was interesting to say the least. A lot of divided opinion.

We are very strongly considering offering 2 40K tournaments, 1 with restrictions and 1 that is closer to the book.

I have to say this, feast of blades changed their format(Warlords cant recieve extra victory points from challenges) because they changed scoring.
Fantasy bans models(No Teclis) and powers or whole trees.
Hell WARMACHINE changed their steamroller format because it was determined the second player is at an inherent disadvantage. the game championed for being the greatest tournament game changed its rules for competitive play.
We as 40k players need to not be so scared.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, do something FOB do, reward fast players. Both those who played the game and make it to the bottom of 5 extra points. You want to stop Malefic, that is how you do it.

Some day in the not far future 40k will use chess clocks. Poor orks/nids/guard.

 Lobukia wrote:
Some day in the not far future 40k will use chess clocks. Poor orks/nids/guard.

Lol

Well, whatever happens you might want to hold off on making a decision about what you are going to do until the end of June.

That way you can see what happens at Texas Games Con and you will still have a month before your event.

There is a lot of fear out there about what is new with 7th edition and I am more afraid of what it did to the old. Six wave serpents, or Space Marines with 18 objective secured units are much scarier than summoned demons or psychic powers.

 Blackmoor wrote:
Well, whatever happens you might want to hold off on making a decision about what you are going to do until the end of June.

That way you can see what happens at Texas Games Con and you will still have a month before your event.

There is a lot of fear out there about what is new with 7th edition and I am more afraid of what it did to the old. Six wave serpents, or Space Marines with 18 objective secured units are much scarier than summoned demons or psychic powers.

Fear not, for there will be no changes to the Psychic Phase. The BAO public have voted.

Glad to see the overall view of most people is to acutally try 7th ed, I have been saying all along that daemon factories arent OMG broken but a pain to play against. As Reece said time limits will be a issue but as TO there are way to combat that.

It's interesting how the vote came out on allying with yourself. I do have to wonder if it's because the most popular codexes;

a. Already can by raw in the their supplements (outside of Eldar)

b. Have access to BB's.

The armies that get hit hardest by this are the ones without BB's which consequently also have the least number of Allies of Convenience as well. And I'm not sure it's cool if you're limiting detachments for everyone not to be on the same playing field ally wise. Bear in mind the only reason they wrote it into the rulebook that way is likely because the actual Battle Forge rulings allow multiple CAD's and spamming allied choices allows you to limit the troop requirements quite heavily.

Armies that can't ally with themselves and don't have BB's:

-Tyranids
-Necrons
-Orks

The list for armies with BB's that can't self ally is a little bigger:

-Space Wolves
-Dark Angels
-Blood Angels
-Grey Knights
-Sisters
-Dark Eldar
-Daemons
-Imperial Knights
-Eldar (which people were allowing to self ally anyway)

And let's be realistic here. The Marine books basically can self ally since they can allie with codex space marines. And GK can self-ally with the non MEQ portion of their book.

Armies hit hardest by not allying with themselves are the one with extremely limited AoC and no BB. Do Orks and Nids need the hit? Are Necrons so OP they should basically have to only play with 1 force org?

When 25% of the armies can self ally already (and arguably the most popular codexes in the game) and are just benefitting from getting supplements why are we hurting the non-sm, non-eldar/tau players?

Honestly, I'd still hold off on the detachment/allied issue till the Ork book is out and you can take a look at a book formatted for 7th.

Anywho Glad to see the results. Surprised by the Lord of War, in a happy way. Maybe a second poll for Lord of War with a more specific answer to "If Lords of War are legal would you want unrestricted, restricted, or don't care" might be in order before making a final decision on it.

Also glad to see people willing to try the 7th edition psychic phase as written to start. Even if it was by a slim majority

I hate to bring it up because I am always "that guy", but what is the deal with forge world these days? No one has said anything about it.

Is it in or out?
40K approved only, or everything in the books?

I would've loved to see "1 CAD and ally with yourself" as an option in the CAD poll (or a separate poll still mentioning CADs).

Will you be allowing dataslates? I did not see that listed anywhere. I'm assuming you will, if it takes the place of an allies slot? That would at least throw tyranids a bone, since they have no one to ally with, since the poll is in favor of banning CtA allies (which I agree with, but tyranids need Someone to ally with ).

I'm still not sure why people are so against CtA. Most CtA aren't any crazier fluffwise than SW/GK or DA/Inq being battle brother. And honestly you can find a fluff justification for ANYTHING in 40k. And rulewise the limitation on deployment are rather severe, especially when deployment can and does win games. But that's a whole other topic

That's fair Hulk- but what I'm saying is, if you ban CtA allies, you deprive tyranids of any allies, so they need something (dataslate in the ally slot, or allying with themselves) in its place, since their only ally options are (justifiably, imo) disallowed.

I'm not sure I'd ban CTA allies, in part b/c of Nids.

@RiTides

I think Reece and Company are already on board for formations based on the comments on the actual post by him so I wouldn't worry that far. I just don't think the formations are that excellent with the rule shifts in 7th. Which means Nids are back to using less force orgs than most other players. Though the Living Artillery one is pretty good.

Yeah, Living Artillery is the one I want to use (and have since before 7th, but was waiting to build it to make sure it's still at least somewhat viable- good to hear that it is!).

There are some really broken combinations for CtA... I would use restrictions - for example no Eldar-Tyranids (which makes no sense at all).

Pray tell on these broken combinations using CtA. Genuinely interested as most everything I've heard from people regarding CtA is fluff based, not game based.

I would also be curious what the "Broken" combinations are.

Thematically, I am not as accepting of the critiques. We just came out of an edition where Space Marine Heroes were somehow super inspirational to the point of removing all fear from Tau fire caste combatants and kroot.

Frankly I want to see someone ally Knight Titans with Tyranid and model them up as sweet-ass Biotitans. Or I want to see the Zoanthrope Council of allied Eldar.

 Blackmoor wrote:
Well, whatever happens you might want to hold off on making a decision about what you are going to do until the end of June.

They're already cutting it close with less than two months to sell tickets and convince people to travel out here to play. I'd guess Frontline will want to get this squared away and start selling tickets ASAP.

 tomjoad wrote:

 Blackmoor wrote:
Well, whatever happens you might want to hold off on making a decision about what you are going to do until the end of June.

They're already cutting it close with less than two months to sell tickets and convince people to travel out here to play. I'd guess Frontline will want to get this squared away and start selling tickets ASAP.

Reece and I are basically in the same boat, from extensive talks together. We aren't the first big events for 7th edition, but we're both in a couple months and need to give attendees a chance to acquire, paint, etc., any changes to their armies. Waiting until July for NOVA would be a detrimental exhaustion of time for attendees. It would be nearly lethal for BAO.

Interesting that there was no poll question on Tactical Objective Cards, but I guess it's up to the frontline crew to write their own missions anyway.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Pray tell on these broken combinations using CtA. Genuinely interested as most everything I've heard from people regarding CtA is fluff based, not game based.

Tyranids and eldar to boost malefic summoning is very fluffy. Which Black Library novel was that again ?

 Dozer Blades wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Pray tell on these broken combinations using CtA. Genuinely interested as most everything I've heard from people regarding CtA is fluff based, not game based.

Tyranids and eldar to boost malefic summoning is very fluffy. Which Black Library novel was that again ?

Eldar Malefic summoning isn't very good. The summoned Daemons are "Come the Apocalypse," none of them gain Objective Secured (they are not part of any detachment), and the summoning units are inactive at other activities. You would be better off just allying in Daemons, if all you wanted to do was summon models into the game that the Tyranid player cannot get any of his swarms or FMC safely near.

Also, one could easily and readily model up the Eldar Farseer as a Doom of Mal'antai or a Malanthrope type model. The Rule of Cool will always be the primary one when it comes to fluff, and creativity in modeling is as or more important than creativity in competitive list building. Come the Apocalypse, however, encourages both.

MVBrandt wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Pray tell on these broken combinations using CtA. Genuinely interested as most everything I've heard from people regarding CtA is fluff based, not game based.

Tyranids and eldar to boost malefic summoning is very fluffy. Which Black Library novel was that again ?

Eldar Malefic summoning isn't very good. The summoned Daemons are "Come the Apocalypse," none of them gain Objective Secured (they are not part of any detachment), and the summoning units are inactive at other activities. You would be better off just allying in Daemons, if all you wanted to do was summon models into the game that the Tyranid player cannot get any of his swarms or FMC safely near.

Also, one could easily and readily model up the Eldar Farseer as a Doom of Mal'antai or a Malanthrope type model. The Rule of Cool will always be the primary one when it comes to fluff, and creativity in modeling is as or more important than creativity in competitive list building. Come the Apocalypse, however, encourages both.

There is a reason why GW dropped Doom from the Tyranid codex...

Chapterhouse?

(Sorry, had to go there . For the record, I like CH and just ordered their spore pod and space bug defense line)

And once again Tyranids take it in the pooper. I know being able to ally with yourself can cause some spam issues, but several books are specifically designed with it in mind (Tau FS, Iyanden, Vanilla Marines) and for Nids its the only real option, outside of CTA allies. They also have a horrifically bad Lords of War selection, compared to other books. Assuming it ends up being allowed, I would expect every nid player there (all two of them, hello Janth) to run the Garg formation.

I think the warp charge thing and summon factories are a non issue, mostly because any one doing that is not going to have time to get a complete game in, so they are really hurting themselves just as much as those they play. Rest of the results look like a pretty good starting point for the next edition GTs.

The results are nonsensical. Invisible Beaststars are just fine. Invisible Revenants are just fine. How is that any worse than allowing two CAD?

Weren't we all sick of that sort of thing? Everyone was complaining about deathstar 40k like five weeks ago. It was the major reason the game is losing players. That didn't go away. If I might make a few modest suggestions to keep things less crazy.

Invisibility – Invisible Draigowing is slow and gets ignored. Invisible Flesh Hounds get tarpitted by a walker. Invisible beaststar/seer council is unstoppable. Invisible Knight Titan also very tough to stop.

Solution: You may not cast invisibility (or fortune why not?) on a unit with hit and run, or a super heavy. You can have your unkillable unit, but it comes with a weakness. Cry me a river, Eldar players. You’ll just have to make do with your Wraithknights, Warp Spiders, objective secured Wave Serpents, and everything else in your book that totally rocks.

Summoning: In my games against Blackmoor, I’ve found it isn’t actually very good. In the interest of speeding up the game, allow players to summon any two units with Summoning/Incursion/Possesion/Sacrifice per turn, maximum.

Big bad unkillable death stars – Everyone hates them because they are no fun. Allow only one IC to join any unit at any time. Death stars go bye bye.

Multiple CAD- Who gives a rip about six Heldrakes or six Riptides anymore? That army is going to lose hard. What the hell are those armies going to do against six Wave Serpents, which is totally legal under one CAD? The abuses come from stacking USR’s into a mega unit. Allow this so every Tyranid army isn’t Skyblight, please.

Psychic Phase- It is not necessary to cap warp charge dice. You get off fewer powers now than before as it is. You want to make it even harder?

Lords of War- Please, no. Do you know how hard it is for a Daemon or Nid player to kill even one Knight Titan now?

Were there options beyond yes or no?

Wouldn't it be interesting to see how many people weren't just against X, but would also see X as a dealbreaker? Especially since the results were so close in some of the categories.

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't powers which are not attacks specifically not work on superheavies/gargantuans? Or did they dump that in 7th? If so, then invisible giant things are not an issue. Invisible seer councils might be more difficult, but with the force org limits, getting invisibility is not a sure bet in the first place.

 Phazael wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't powers which are not attacks specifically not work on superheavies/gargantuans? Or did they dump that in 7th? If so, then invisible giant things are not an issue. Invisible seer councils might be more difficult, but with the force org limits, getting invisibility is not a sure bet in the first place.

They dumped it actually in 6th. Yes, super-heavies/gargants can be affected by psychic powers just like everyone else.