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I went ahead an put this is in News since even though it only effects events it's still news.

That said I attended the Bugeater GT in Omaha, Nebraska this weekend and the TO specifically mentioned that GW is starting to test the waters of providing prize support for events again. He did state that it was brand new (that he believed they were the first event) but that it wasn't a secret in anyway. They provided a significant amount of prize support for the 2-day event which doubles as a fundraiser for the local debate club.

The TO said that one of his LFGS owners had actually met with GW in person to push for re-instating support for events. Not sure if any of our FLGS owners like Mikhaila could chime in on something like this happening.

Figured I'd share.

Interesting.

Seems weird though that they start this after releasing an edition that is aimed against competitive players.

The ultra-cynic in me wants to say that, if true, it'll be there way of stopping 3rd-party miniatures in events with prize support. Want prize support? 100% GW miniatures only.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Seems weird though that they start this after releasing an edition that is aimed against competitive players.

They don't understand that, and this edition isn't "aimed" at anything. Aiming would imply they had a sense of direction.

HBMC, I know, that's my fear! If that is indeed the goal, I hope events will not take GW up on it... if they've been able to provide prizes and attract attendees without GW's needing to have a say on it, I would love to see that continue, rather than letting GW impose restrictions (perhaps even insisting on official GW terrain? ).

Just say "No!", TOs!!

 RiTides wrote:
... perhaps even insisting on official GW terrain? ).

Yeah. I was gonan make a crack about "... all played on official Citadel Realm of Battle Boards", but even my ultra-cynic has limits.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
... perhaps even insisting on official GW terrain? ).

Yeah. I was gonan make a crack about "... all played on official Citadel Realm of Battle Boards", but even my ultra-cynic has limits.

Hell, if they provide them all (and enough terrain) I wouldn't fault a tournament at all from accepting... since that's the hardest part (making good looking boards with enough terrain).

H.B.M.C. wrote:The ultra-cynic in me wants to say that, if true, it'll be there way of stopping 3rd-party miniatures in events with prize support. Want prize support? 100% GW miniatures only.

From my understanding a lot of tournaments still use the old "75% GW parts" metric.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
... perhaps even insisting on official GW terrain? ).

Yeah. I was gonan make a crack about "... all played on official Citadel Realm of Battle Boards", but even my ultra-cynic has limits.

...only allowed to attend if you use the genuine GW dice. To prohibit cheating. Of course.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The ultra-cynic in me wants to say that, if true, it'll be there way of stopping 3rd-party miniatures in events with prize support. Want prize support? 100% GW miniatures only.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Seems weird though that they start this after releasing an edition that is aimed against competitive players.

They don't understand that, and this edition isn't "aimed" at anything. Aiming would imply they had a sense of direction.

Yeah, I believe there was a rumor saying how GW anticipates that tournaments will make adaptations to the rule set to help facilitate games; that they built the rule set to just include everything so people could then simply exclude what they want. However, that mindset seems way out of touch with most 40k gamers; the discrepancies in the 40k crowd over what the game should play like riddle this forum with all the ire of political partisanship.

As HBMC said, the rules weren't aimed at anything other than including everything in the game, with the hope that (a) everyone would like that and (b) incidentally it would increase profits by encouraging everyone to buy everything. Beyond that, there doesn't seem to be a lot of focus IMO.

Good for them. I hope the prize support from GW helps attendance for people's tournaments.

Just to address the above for how things seemed to stand at the moment there was no requirement for GW only models and counts-as was in full effect for 40k and Fantasy and the terrain was the local club and personal stuff that's used and expanded every year.

GW provided prizes but not scenery support but that's understandable since for those of you that don't know when GW started pushing the Indy Circuit originally in the US they were giving tons of terrain and prize support to any event running a Golden Ticket entry. And they got screwed on it when one that I know of (and possibly more) TO's swindled them for their tournament packages for several events that either didn't take place or took place in such a limited number as to be a joke.

Kinda hard to blame them for pulling in the horns a bit at that point and some of the TO's from 4-5 years ago can probably speak to it better than me.

Interesting, this would seem to lend a tiny bit of credence towards the "Tournament rule/hardcore gamers supplement" that natfka had rumored. A tiny bit.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Kinda hard to blame them for pulling in the horns a bit at that point and some of the TO's from 4-5 years ago can probably speak to it better than me.

I don't blame them at all if that's what was happening.
My point was that if they're going to require GW terrain/boards if they're providing prize support, they should provide that terrain/boards as well... even on a loaner basis.

Just my opinion.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Kinda hard to blame them for pulling in the horns a bit at that point and some of the TO's from 4-5 years ago can probably speak to it better than me.

I don't blame them at all if that's what was happening.
My point was that if they're going to require GW terrain/boards if they're providing prize support, they should provide that terrain/boards as well... even on a loaner basis.

Just my opinion.

That was more in response in general, not to you specific comment. I happen to agree with you on the required terrain/boards means they should provide them. I was just pointing out that they hadn't instituted anything at this event along those lines and that previously they did try to provide their terrain in the past. Granted times do change but GW can't shut down the tournament scene as it stands right now and doesn't have the power to force anything so this wouldn't be a short term gain move. If it sticks it'll be interesting since it shows another change in direction for them regarding events.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Kinda hard to blame them for pulling in the horns a bit at that point and some of the TO's from 4-5 years ago can probably speak to it better than me.

I don't blame them at all if that's what was happening.
My point was that if they're going to require GW terrain/boards if they're providing prize support, they should provide that terrain/boards as well... even on a loaner basis.

Just my opinion.

I disagree on the terrain basis, to an extent.

If someone wants to have terrain pieces for their army(say as fortifications or things like the Wood Elves getting that d3 Citadel Woods from the Acorn of the Ages)--then they should be bringing it themselves.

Scatter terrain for the table itself? Yeah, that should be the kind of stuff that GW should provide.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The ultra-cynic in me wants to say that, if true, it'll be there way of stopping 3rd-party miniatures in events with prize support. Want prize support? 100% GW miniatures only.

Privateer Press already does this, or at least requires something like 50 or 70% of the model to be the original model (its some % but I can't recall).

Make the main prize an afternoon in a room with the design studio, and a promise that feedback will be listened to and acted on wherever feasible, and cue Azreal going on a full bore Rocky training montage in order to win the next GW supported tourney!

H.B.M.C. wrote:The ultra-cynic in me wants to say that, if true, it'll be there way of stopping 3rd-party miniatures in events with prize support. Want prize support? 100% GW miniatures only.

There's no way to enforce this so I doubt it'll be the case.

They must be truly growing desperate.

 oni wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:The ultra-cynic in me wants to say that, if true, it'll be there way of stopping 3rd-party miniatures in events with prize support. Want prize support? 100% GW miniatures only.

There's no way to enforce this so I doubt it'll be the case.

Privateer Press doesn't seem to have a problem

 Hulksmash wrote:
Just to address the above for how things seemed to stand at the moment there was no requirement for GW only models and counts-as was in full effect for 40k and Fantasy and the terrain was the local club and personal stuff that's used and expanded every year.

Excellent, then!

Overread- Privateer Press is a very different animal. They actually organize most of their events (their press gangers do) whereas GW tournies are mostly put on by independent organizations. I think at this point in time, using any alternate models and conversions are too well entrenched in 40k to be removed, and I am glad they are not trying to do so on the indy GT circuit.

But prizes without imposing event restrictions on events they don't even help organize would be most welcome

 RiTides wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Just to address the above for how things seemed to stand at the moment there was no requirement for GW only models and counts-as was in full effect for 40k and Fantasy and the terrain was the local club and personal stuff that's used and expanded every year.

Excellent, then!

Overread- Privateer Press is a very different animal. They actually organize most of their events (their press gangers do) whereas GW tournies are mostly put on by independent organizations. I think at this point in time, using any alternate models and conversions are too well entrenched in 40k to be removed, and I am glad they are not trying to do so on the indy GT circuit.

But prizes without imposing event restrictions on events they don't even help organize would be most welcome

Press Gangers aren't actually under any obligation to PP beyond having appropriate demoing forces. PP doesn't actually enforce it's model/conversion policy outside of it's own events (It has conversion guidelines in the standard tourny pack, but final say on any model is explicitly left to the TOs), but the nature of the game and tournaments (fast turns and where each model has important differences in rules) mean most TOs enforce standard models (or appropriate conversions) simply for ease of identification at a glance.

It's definitely nothing to do with their Pressganger program however.

On topic, GW getting back into prize support would be a good thing if done right, and without too heavy a hand. If they released a set of tournament guidelines (with multiple optional setups) like PP does, it'd probably help their image somewhat with event gamers.

 Overread wrote:

 oni wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:The ultra-cynic in me wants to say that, if true, it'll be there way of stopping 3rd-party miniatures in events with prize support. Want prize support? 100% GW miniatures only.

There's no way to enforce this so I doubt it'll be the case.

Privateer Press doesn't seem to have a problem

Your reply is rather ambiguous. Do you mean that PP enforces this policy with 100% effectiveness or merely that PP states and desires that such a policy be followed?

There's simply no way PP, GW or any other company could enforce such a policy. They can state it and desire that it be followed, but unless the co. has an official representative on location for the event there's no way it can be enforced.

Agreed, my local press gangers are totally okay with well done conversions and even complete counts-as models IF done correctly. But, the game itself makes this much harder to do, whereas 40k is basically made for it, so it's much more commonplace in 40k.

 oni wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 oni wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:The ultra-cynic in me wants to say that, if true, it'll be there way of stopping 3rd-party miniatures in events with prize support. Want prize support? 100% GW miniatures only.

There's no way to enforce this so I doubt it'll be the case.

Privateer Press doesn't seem to have a problem

Your reply is rather ambiguous. Do you mean that PP enforces this policy with 100% effectiveness or merely that PP states and desires that such a policy be followed?

There's simply no way PP, GW or any other company could enforce such a policy. They can state it and desire that it be followed, but unless the co. has an official representative on location for the event there's no way it can be enforced.

Write up a contract with significant financial penalties for not enforcing whatever rules for the TO to sign in return for prize support,

and have the occasional 'mystery gamer' play in events

TO's who enforce said rules anyway (or are willing to do so) will sign and get prize support
TO's who don't want to enforce said rules will probably not think the risk is worth the reward

GW prize support is always a good thing.

You don't need 'competitive play' to have a GW format that provides event support. Remember, modeling and painting contests have been huge for GW. They could be considering providing prize support for events with 'paint this months releases' and such.

Hell, we could even see the return of the 'nationwide campaigns' which don't reward 'winning a tourney' but games played, product bought, whatever.

Having a competitive rule-set is not needed for prize support.

And PP has crushed 3rd party models with thier policies and they are mostly enforced. They were easily enforced back in the GW days. If anything, Prize support would be a way to put the screws to 3rd party companies, not trying to re-create the GT circuit.

Edit: You also have to remember, FLGS are supported mostly by major products and distributors like GW and PP. Not international independent webstores who make conversion parts. It was never a big deal to require GW only in a FLGS because that was also a better chance of supporting 'store-bought only' models. Nothing is worse than someone saying "wow, that is an awesome army, where can I buy it' and the answer being 'not at this FLGS, go online to an internet distributor.'

So while you say it is not enforceable, just like in the past, I think you will find lots of store-affiliated TOs perfectly willing to enforce the rule the same way PP TOs enforce it now. They realize why such rules exist and see it as a tool to promote sales, not 'maintain the sanctity of wizard battle' for the good of the hobby.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

Write up a contract with significant financial penalties for not enforcing whatever rules for the TO to sign in return for prize support,

and have the occasional 'mystery gamer' play in events

TO's who enforce said rules anyway (or are willing to do so) will sign and get prize support
TO's who don't want to enforce said rules will probably not think the risk is worth the reward

You're presenting GW as a coven of vampires with no business sense.

 Overread wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The ultra-cynic in me wants to say that, if true, it'll be there way of stopping 3rd-party miniatures in events with prize support. Want prize support? 100% GW miniatures only.

Privateer Press already does this, or at least requires something like 50 or 70% of the model to be the original model (its some % but I can't recall).

GW used to as well, back when they ran their own events. It's been allowed to slide in a lot of events since GW stopped supporting or running events.




As an aside (because I don't see it actually happening) events running solely on Realm of Battle boards would see me no longer attending events. They had a few of them at Adepticon in 2012 - they're downright horrible to roll dice on.

So I'm the TO in question, I'll fill in some details.

We were indeed the first event to get support from Games Workshop, largely based on the lobbying efforts of the FLGS owner who has been working with some others to convince Games Workshop that they need to be out there and positively supporting the gaming community. I received a little under $2,000 in retail product from Games Workshop. I was given an amount, I sent in the order - so it wasn't like they gave me random things, I was able to specifically request certain products. I even had two Gorkanauts to give away on the weekend they were released. There were no expectations to enforce a GW models or terrain only policy, either. I was not asked to run my event with any kind of strings or set conditions in order to receive this product.

I have no idea how this will look if they go forward and formalize it. From what I know, the reason why GW got OUT of the business of supporting tournaments was two fold:

1) They recognized that independent tournament organizers were doing a better job at putting on events than they were
2) When they had the Indy GT circuit, they got mega burned by people inflating numbers, and then cashing in on a lot of prize support by simply splitting the loot up amongst a dozen or so friends.

One of the things that convinced GW to sponsor the Bugeater GT was that they had a store with an established trade account to serve as our "sponsor" (and the fact that we were in our fourth year of running the event). Because an established store that they had 10+ years of working with vouched for us / sponsored us, GW felt we were a safe investment so to speak.

That being said, they are literally testing the waters with this. And I'll be completely honest with you, some of the responses in this thread are sadly confirming GW's thoughts that they "can't win." Seriously, some of you wish tournaments wouldn't accept the assistance? That this is some conspiracy to drive 3rd party miniatures out? Granted, several others seem happy that this is happening, but if the folks at GW read that people are upset that they gave away free prize support with no strings attached ... well ... good luck convincing them they need to support the community.

And I have spoken with several TOs who really hope this takes off. Being able to get access to that much support would allow them to refurbish terrain, or upgrade to a better facility, or what have you. If this takes off it is a win-win for everyone.