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What an awful comparison.

I mean, truly, absolutely, appallingly awful.

Are you seriously trying to imply that someone who is 6'7" is automatically/inherently stronger than someone who is 5'6"? Or tougher for that matter?

Because if so, that is quite possibly one of the stupidest things I've read on these boards.

This is amazing.

 Blacksails wrote:
Oh, are we comparing our status in life now?

Okay, I'll go first.

I'm 24 years old and recently made my first million dollars. I'm married to a supermodel and we have the sexes all the time. I can benchpress a small car and lift heavy things all the time and other manly stuffs. I was the coolest kind in high school and I'm on my way to becoming a famous pro athlete.

My name is Streetlamp LeMoose, and I am a god.

Therefore everything I post is automatically better and more important than anyone else's.

The whole point was brutal honesty, and the lying only gives credence to my point howeve how small.
And I said powercling. I guess you don't know what that is.

No, the point is that using your status in life to leverage a discussion on the internet is pathetic.

 Blacksails wrote:
What an awful comparison.

I mean, truly, absolutely, appallingly awful.

Are you seriously trying to imply that someone who is 6'7" is automatically/inherently stronger than someone who is 5'6"? Or tougher for that matter?

Because if so, that is quite possibly one of the stupidest things I've read on these boards.

This is amazing.

Assuming the correct cube square weight system, a person who is 5'6 and 115 pounds, is definitely going to be weaker than someone who is 6'7 and 197 pounds (properly scale up) assuming proportional muscle mass.
No. It's a decent argument.

 Blacksails wrote:
Oh, are we comparing our status in life now?

Okay, I'll go first.

I'm 24 years old and recently made my first million dollars. I'm married to a supermodel and we have the sexes all the time. I can benchpress a small car and lift heavy things all the time and other manly stuffs. I was the coolest kind in high school and I'm on my way to becoming a famous pro athlete.

My name is Streetlamp LeMoose, and I am a god.

Therefore everything I post is automatically better and more important than anyone else's.

Keep doing the Emperors work Battle Brother.

 Blacksails wrote:
No, the point is that using your status in life to leverage a discussion on the internet is pathetic.

Someone being uncomfortable to share actually is pathetic.
I love how this has gone.
You were being an internet style bully, and now I'm being a real world bully.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

Assuming the correct cube square weight system, a person who is 5'6 and 115 pounds, is definitely going to be weaker than someone who is 6'7 and 197 pounds (properly scale up) assuming proportional muscle mass.
No. It's a decent argument.

No, its not.

We're not comparing cubes of people flesh. We're comparing living, breathing humans. Humans who have different abilities. Humans who have variances in every aspect of them.

But I'm going to rope this back into the realm of the original discussion.

The difference in height of a primarch will have ZERO noticeable impact on the statline representation in a wargame.

Absolutely zero.

To argue this is to ignore fundamental game design.

You don't have a distinct statline for the weedy Cadian in the platoon, or for the giant hulking muscle mass. The difference in the game are too minute to make those distinctions in the rules.

So no. Weight/height in practical human terms is not an appropriate measure of strength or toughness.

Strength and toughness are appropriate measures for strength and toughness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
No, the point is that using your status in life to leverage a discussion on the internet is pathetic.

Someone being uncomfortable to share actually is pathetic.
I love how this has gone.
You were being an internet style bully, and now I'm being a real world bully.

Oh my.

Yes, you are right. You are a far superior human being than myself. In every way. Not only are you better looking, but you're far smarter too.

Dear lord, get over yourself.

I don't need to justify anything to you. My place in life has no bearing on this conversation. Acting as such only make you look increasingly desperate and pathetic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Clefty wrote:


Keep doing the Emperors work Battle Brother.

Are you reading this!?

This is amazing!

 Blacksails wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

Assuming the correct cube square weight system, a person who is 5'6 and 115 pounds, is definitely going to be weaker than someone who is 6'7 and 197 pounds (properly scale up) assuming proportional muscle mass.
No. It's a decent argument.

No, its not.

We're not comparing cubes of people flesh. We're comparing living, breathing humans. Humans who have different abilities. Humans who have variances in every aspect of them.

But I'm going to rope this back into the realm of the original discussion.

The difference in height of a primarch will have ZERO noticeable impact on the statline representation in a wargame.

Absolutely zero.

To argue this is to ignore fundamental game design.

You don't have a distinct statline for the weedy Cadian in the platoon, or for the giant hulking muscle mass. The difference in the game are too minute to make those distinctions in the rules.

So no. Weight/height in practical human terms is not an appropriate measure of strength or toughness.

Strength and toughness are appropriate measures for strength and toughness.

Ah, and now you've receded on the actual argument!!!
Didn't those calcs that you never disputed show that because the muscle area increases (greater size), so does strength?
That's how muscle works. The more muscle area you can slam onto something, without it being a detriment, the stronger the creature.
But yeah, a foot of difference in height has no negative effect on scaling muscle up.
Look, we can stop this pissing contest: Should Angron be significantly weaker than the average primarch?

 ThePrimordial wrote:

Ah, and now you've receded on the actual argument!!!
But yeah, a foot of difference in height has no negative effect on scaling muscle up.
Look, we can stop this pissing contest: Should Angron be significantly weaker than the average primarch?

There you go again, calling people out on 'conceding' the argument.

I didn't do that. Not anywhere.

Its not a pissing contest, its demonstrating to you that you have an awful way of making comparisons and justifying terrible rules in a game of 40k.

Angron should be exactly where he is in the current HH book. His rules are fine. Leave them alone. I can assure you that the FW knows infinitely more about this than you do.

 Blacksails wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

Ah, and now you've receded on the actual argument!!!
But yeah, a foot of difference in height has no negative effect on scaling muscle up.
Look, we can stop this pissing contest: Should Angron be significantly weaker than the average primarch?

There you go again, calling people out on 'conceding' the argument.

I didn't do that. Not anywhere.

Its not a pissing contest, its demonstrating to you that you have an awful way of making comparisons and justifying terrible rules in a game of 40k.

Angron should be exactly where he is in the current HH book. His rules are fine. Leave them alone. I can assure you that the FW knows infinitely more about this than you do.

Didn't those calcs that you never disputed show that because the muscle area increases (greater size), so does strength?
That's how muscle works. The more muscle area you can slam onto something, in a cohesive way, without it being a detriment, the stronger the creature.
Boom.
And that's a yes or no question.
I know that if you were in a good place in life right now you'd be honest. And so do you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm requesting a lock.
This has gone to the dogs, with petty internet squabbling, and the pettier real world dick waving.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Clefty wrote:


Keep doing the Emperors work Battle Brother.

Are you reading this!?

This is amazing!

Man, and I missed being personally called out, too! (A first on this board!)

Class act, Primordial.

 curran12 wrote:
Man, and I missed being personally called out, too! (A first on this board!)

Class act, Primordial.

I can guarantee you due to your confrontational attitude at the best of times it's not the first.
Apparently it happened on most other forums for the same reasons and your surprised.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Man, and I missed being personally called out, too! (A first on this board!)

Class act, Primordial.

I can guarantee you due to your confrontational attitude at the best of time it's not the first.

Yup, because I'm the one namecalling and calling folks pathetic.

I'm the confrontational one.

 curran12 wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Man, and I missed being personally called out, too! (A first on this board!)

Class act, Primordial.

I can guarantee you due to your confrontational attitude at the best of time it's not the first.

Yup, because I'm the one namecalling and calling folks pathetic.

I'm the confrontational one.

I still have my moments of peace..
And this has happened on many other Dakka forums and your surprised.
Blacksails was the one name calling and calling people pathetic. I just asked him to share his place in life and he cooled down.
Says a lot.

*Edit* Not worth it.

*Further editing* New Game of Thrones was awesome.

Y'know the last word doesn't necessarily means you win the argument. It just means you talk the most.

And yeah, whatever you want to tell yourself. Let me lay it on you honestly.

You pretty much are a broken record to me, it's the same threads, the same rules (more or less) and the same attitude. Frankly, it seems like you post them looking for praise only. And if you want praise, fine, but don't think we are somehow trolling you for pointing out the flaws in your design.

Couldn't agree more.

I'm done here.

Have fun Primordial. I'll let you get the last word and point out that I conceded the argument.

Maybe one day you'll read the posts people make and actually take to heart what has been said.

So this thread actually turned into "Do you even lift Bro?" over some ill conceived Primarch rules

/golfclap

 Blacksails wrote:
Couldn't agree more.

I'm done here.

Have fun Primordial. I'll let you get the last word and point out that I conceded the argument.

Maybe one day you'll read the posts people make and actually take to heart what has been said.

You never even replied to the completed argument.
You just left it alone.
I don't take advice of people on the internet. I'm not here for that. That is a fundamental difference I guess.
/thread.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:
Y'know the last word doesn't necessarily means you win the argument. It just means you talk the most.

And yeah, whatever you want to tell yourself. Let me lay it on you honestly.

You pretty much are a broken record to me, it's the same threads, the same rules (more or less) and the same attitude. Frankly, it seems like you post them looking for praise only. And if you want praise, fine, but don't think we are somehow trolling you for pointing out the flaws in your design.

I don't care for praise.
If I did, I wouldn't post them repeatedly given the results, now would I?
Whenever I have another game, and I want a centerpiece unit I post it here to get some normally unconstructive criticism. Occasionally I get something worth it though. I've had much better success on the B&C.
Geez. Some people are hilarious in their self worth.

I see literally no point to half of this. Not to mention that you are buffing primarchs in ways that make no sense. Ferrus Manus is being made even better in CC while having his price dropped, not to mention Vulkan is for some reason the best fighter among the primarchs now and Fulgrim is much worse because now he is only in the top 25% in WS. I wouldn't pay 380 points for Fulgrim with fireblade now, I wouldn't pay 330 points for Fulgrim with his crappy Laer blade. The only problem you bring up is Alpharius having one more wound than Angron which was probably made to balance him out, he gets a ton of attacks, hits every other primarch on a 3+, wounds every primarch on a 2+ or 3+, has hatred, and ID's marine characters with str 8. Angron can easily solo entire units, that is why he has five wounds, to make him slightly less difficult to bring down.

Just wanted to point out, as this is the kind of stuff i am doing in my Sports Science course, that muscle mass and strength are not always of the same correlation. This is due less to the inherent strength of someone, but more due to the ration of fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers inside the person which allows respiration to happen at an explosive rate, giving the person energy.

Now, i know trying to apply this Logic to Primarches may be a bit foolish, but it is entirely possible for someone who is small to be considerably stronger then someone bigger with the same Muscle/Weight Ratio, as one may have slow twich fibers for slow respiration release and one may have more fast twitch, for more explosive power. If we are swapping life stories, I play Rugby for my under 16's team and we are 2nd in North Wales, so i know my fair bit about tackling people with a bigger muscle mass then me.

Now on topic, how did your game with Apoc Magnus go? Was he well received?

Wow. This thread.

I have not seen popcorn threads like this one for a long time. Other than the permissive ruleset thread earlier.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Weight+height = toughness.

*LOGIC*

This is particularly funny because in the real world that's the way things work.

No, it's not. Is a tall fat guy going to be able to take more bullets than a short muscly guy?
No they go through him all the same.

Also the dimensions of the Primarchs make no difference to how they actually are, and Angron was actually the shortest Primarch.
And how do you know Angron is heavier than Alpharius? Please source the weight of the two Primarchs.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Weight+height = toughness.

*LOGIC*

This is particularly funny because in the real world that's the way things work.

Are you actually an electrical engineer from an accredited university?

WS9 Vulcan hahahahha, no, he wasn't even remotely better than the likes of horus or curze (who beats him in cc everytime they meet) I feel we have a salamander player here.

I'm in agreement with.others on here, I played hh extensively with all the primarchs so far and they are all very well balanced against each other.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Just wanted to point out, as this is the kind of stuff i am doing in my Sports Science course, that muscle mass and strength are not always of the same correlation. This is due less to the inherent strength of someone, but more due to the ration of fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers inside the person which allows respiration to happen at an explosive rate, giving the person energy.

Now, i know trying to apply this Logic to Primarches may be a bit foolish, but it is entirely possible for someone who is small to be considerably stronger then someone bigger with the same Muscle/Weight Ratio, as one may have slow twich fibers for slow respiration release and one may have more fast twitch, for more explosive power. If we are swapping life stories, I play Rugby for my under 16's team and we are 2nd in North Wales, so i know my fair bit about tackling people with a bigger muscle mass then me.

Now on topic, how did your game with Apoc Magnus go? Was he well received?

Genetics has a big part to play.
That's about it.
I've always wanted to play Rugby instead of Football because there are fewer rules.
At the end of the day I just wanted to hit people in High School.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:
WS9 Vulcan hahahahha, no, he wasn't even remotely better than the likes of horus or curze (who beats him in cc everytime they meet) I feel we have a salamander player here.

I'm in agreement with.others on here, I played hh extensively with all the primarchs so far and they are all very well balanced against each other.

Vulkan still got nerfed to I:4, and now he's way less tough.
Horus or Angron would still casually plaster him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Weight+height = toughness.

*LOGIC*

This is particularly funny because in the real world that's the way things work.

Are you actually an electrical engineer from an accredited university?

Yep. A&M. Is an Elephant tougher than a Fox? Is Hafthor Bjornson tougher and stronger than Usain Bolt?
When Muscle occurs in proportional amounts, with the same genetics, all that can happen is something getting stronger when scaled up, as long as you don't scale
them up too much.
That's what I meant when I said that. I just didn't feel like elaborating.

On Dakka Dakka, there is no more powerful Primarch than...Alpharius.

All kidding aside - RULE #1, ASAP.

Or, you now, thread lock, warnings, suspensions, etc.

Thanks!

 Alpharius wrote:
On Dakka Dakka, there is no more powerful Primarch than...Alpharius.

All kidding aside - RULE #1, ASAP.

Or, you now, thread lock, warnings, suspensions, etc.

Thanks!

How do I know you are a mod and not actually a spy working for the Alpha Legion?

Hey Alpharius can you lock this?
Thanks.