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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/15 13:26:35
Subject: Re:Angron's weird relationship with female captain?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Angron is dead. He died long ago, on nuceria, at the battle for Desh'elika ridge, surrounded by the bodies of the high-rider scum, and that of his brothers and sisters, the gladiator-slaves.
The man who walked in his stead is a hollow thing, devoid of all but rage. It's only goal is destruction, it's only ambition blood.
It is a monster, birthed from the denied death that had so valiantly been earned.
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*Insert witty and/or interesting statement here* |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/15 17:55:18
Subject: Angron's weird relationship with female captain?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Or rather, the death he so pathetically desired, so that he could avoid having to face the consequences of living and striving to make the world a better place. There's nothing admirable about him. He was a coward who wanted the coward's way out-- death. If you want to type propaganda, I can do it better
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/06/15 17:56:33
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/15 19:43:59
Subject: Angron's weird relationship with female captain?
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Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne
Noctis Labyrinthus
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Melissia wrote:Or rather, the death he so pathetically desired, so that he could avoid having to face the consequences of living and striving to make the world a better place. There's nothing admirable about him. He was a coward who wanted the coward's way out-- death.
If you want to type propaganda, I can do it better 
You can also ignore the fluff in the process, like you're doing now.
The consequences of living and striving to make the world a better place? He was willing to face the consequences of his actions with the freed slaves he viewed as his family, but was forced into a role he neither desired nor was suited for (As his family died, and he watched), and the metal parasite in his mind was killing him the longer he played according to this role. Though not before it drove him ever more mad over time.
This doesn't really make him particularly sympathetic because he's such an donkey-cave even when not under the effects of the Nails though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/15 20:05:51
Subject: Angron's weird relationship with female captain?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Not that you care, but just because I interpreted events differently than you did doesn't mean I'm ignoring the fluff.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/15 20:06:00
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/15 20:31:57
Subject: Angron's weird relationship with female captain?
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Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne
Noctis Labyrinthus
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An interpretation that can't be defended isn't worth having.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/16 12:46:06
Subject: Angron's weird relationship with female captain?
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Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator
Arizona
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It's addressed in the audio drama Butcher's Nails. She holds the highest honor a servant of the World Eaters can have. The Bloody palm print, which was given to her by Kharn himself. She has the mindset and character that the World Eaters desire and thus was given the control of the flagship. She is considered an honorary World Eater, and there fore unexpendible as the one value they did have at the time was a sense of brotherhood and being close to their battle brothers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 14:01:18
Subject: Angron's weird relationship with female captain?
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Dakka Veteran
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He just respects her everything else being read in to this is silliness. Argel Tal doesn't love Cyrene sexually and neither does Hyperion with women. You misconstrue their interactions. I've noticed nothing sexual except jokes in the Emperor's Gift from mortals.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Void__Dragon wrote:Why is a "hide the women and children" stereotype even being brought up? Angron is a brutal butcher of worlds. In the same book he literally has a woman crying and pissing herself as he holds her and threatens to kill her. He proceeds to crush her skull.
Not that the "hide your women and children" gak had anything to do with women being weaker than men mind you.
Because it is used with Lotara as a way to make male readers sympathize more with Angron. Since 99% of the readers of these books are male it makes sense to use this.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melissia wrote:Or rather, the death he so pathetically desired, so that he could avoid having to face the consequences of living and striving to make the world a better place. There's nothing admirable about him. He was a coward who wanted the coward's way out-- death.
If you want to type propaganda, I can do it better 
He didn't want death for that reason and it's made pretty clear. I wanted death because the only people he'd ever truly care about were dead and he let them down. He betrayed the only people he cared about. An unforgivable sin to him. He's not a betrayer for betraying the Emperor because he didn't. I can empathize with the level of internal pain and guilt that would cause. It would definitely be haunting. Especially as a leader. In our current society we grow up learning that we need to be able to protect and provide for the people in our care, whether that be younger siblings, spouses, children, other family. Nothing is scarier than the idea of not being able to protect the most important people in our lives. Him dying with his brothers and sisters was going to be the most important and meaningful moment of his life and instead they all believe he abandoned them. It would be the equivalent of if an armed robber took my wife and child and I heard him say he was going to kill them and I just snuck out the back door and they saw me. I would be tortured.
It's easier to say "he should have moved on and done so and so" from the outside but that's a subjective opinion based on your own experiences and while you may have experienced loss your lack of empathy shows that you probably have experience that level of guilt or regret.
Angron is the typical family/ pack leadrer character before Desh'ea. As the typical family leader/ pack leader he was guilty of the greatest failure one can have. Direct failure to protect those he cared for. That's the picture that is painted of him. He thinks he should have died for them and he is right. There is no better reason to die than trying to protect those you care for and no more cowardly thing to avoid.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/06/23 14:26:08
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 17:37:12
Subject: Angron's weird relationship with female captain?
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Whiteshield Conscript Trooper
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I have to agree with you. I also find it impossible to think of Angron as a coward. Angron was terribly psychologically scarred/broken and afllicted by the Butcher's Nails to begin with, so while its hard to discern many of his motivations, we do know this. The only people he cared about were his fellow slaves, as they shared both his deepest traits: hated for tyranny and the unceasing demand of the nails themselves. These people were the ones he lived and fought so viciously for. Not only was he forced to leave these people behind to die at their oppressors alone, the one who robbed him of them was the greatest tyrant humanity had ever known. (in Angrons eyes, though it is arguably true) This is what is referenced by Angron's true "death". All that remains is near endless rage and hate, which is what the Emperor used him for.
The question I always had was why he didn't turn on the Emperor immediately.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/23 17:38:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 18:31:56
Subject: Re:Angron's weird relationship with female captain?
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Stitch Counter
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Horus Rising...
Really though, I would rather they kept the love interest between Astartes and Humans out of it. Otherwise we might as well stick some Tyranid tentacles in there just to complete the anime fan fantasy
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/23 18:33:13
Thousand Sons: 3850pts / Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / Black Death 1500pts
Saga: (Vikings, Normans, Anglo Danes, Irish, Scots, Late Romans, Huns and Anglo Saxons), Lion Rampant, Ronin: (Bushi x2, Sohei), Frostgrave: (Enchanter, Thaumaturge, Illusionist)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 19:07:38
Subject: Angron's weird relationship with female captain?
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Sister Oh-So Repentia
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lasgun17 wrote:The question I always had was why he didn't turn on the Emperor immediately.
According to the short story After Desh'ea (an excellent read - Matthew Farrer doesn't get nearly enough credit for the modern interpretation of Angron and Kharn) the Emperor wasted very little time in teleporting Angron over to the Conqueror, leaving Kharn and the other captains of the War Hounds to deal with him. I can only wonder if there were already imperial emmissaries going down to the surface to bring the high riders into a peaceful compliance.
What the Emperor did to Angron is unforgiveable. It feels worse to me than what he did to some of his other sons because it's so petty, so personal, so utterly unecessary.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/23 19:08:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 20:04:39
Subject: Angron's weird relationship with female captain?
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Whiteshield Conscript Trooper
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ashcroft wrote: lasgun17 wrote:The question I always had was why he didn't turn on the Emperor immediately.
According to the short story After Desh'ea (an excellent read - Matthew Farrer doesn't get nearly enough credit for the modern interpretation of Angron and Kharn) the Emperor wasted very little time in teleporting Angron over to the Conqueror, leaving Kharn and the other captains of the War Hounds to deal with him. I can only wonder if there were already imperial emmissaries going down to the surface to bring the high riders into a peaceful compliance.
What the Emperor did to Angron is unforgiveable. It feels worse to me than what he did to some of his other sons because it's so petty, so personal, so utterly unecessary.
I never heard of that one...as Angron is my favorite Primarch I'm going to look that up, much thanks!
Agreed on the Emperor, the only thing that I can fathom is that the Big E isnt nearly as flawless as the fluff makes him out to be.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/24 00:04:38
Subject: Re:Angron's weird relationship with female captain?
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Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'
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Woops, wrong thread
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/24 00:05:43
Be Pure!
Be Vigilant!
BEHAVE!
Show me your god and I'll send you a warhead because my god's bigger than your god. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/24 04:45:27
Subject: Angron's weird relationship with female captain?
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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I agree with Mel, topping yourself id the cowatds way out.
Say every single living relative and all the kids die in a fire during Thanksgiving but you live cos you nipped to the store.
What's easier? Dealing with that feeling for years, or driving off the bridge?
Dying is easy boy.. but living? That takes some doing. - Druss the Legend
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We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/24 04:50:51
Subject: Angron's weird relationship with female captain?
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Dakka Veteran
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mattyrm wrote:I agree with Mel, topping yourself id the cowatds way out.
Say every single living relative and all the kids die in a fire during Thanksgiving but you live cos you nipped to the store.
What's easier? Dealing with that feeling for years, or driving off the bridge?
Dying is easy boy.. but living? That takes some doing. - Druss the Legend
In that situation I agree but you can't cater the situation to your viewpoint. I could come up with several where the family left behind that it was so cruel to leave were actually the heartless villains
living is actually instinctual so killing yourself is actually harder
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/24 04:53:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/24 14:17:44
Subject: Angron's weird relationship with female captain?
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Whiteshield Conscript Trooper
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mattyrm wrote:I agree with Mel, topping yourself id the cowatds way out.
Say every single living relative and all the kids die in a fire during Thanksgiving but you live cos you nipped to the store.
What's easier? Dealing with that feeling for years, or driving off the bridge?
Dying is easy boy.. but living? That takes some doing. - Druss the Legend
Surely you see the difference between throwing yourself off of a bridge and fighting to the death selling your lives against horribly oppressive tyranny. One is a willing sacrifice for your fellows and your ideals, (thinking of others) one is just ending your life due to not wanting to deal. (thinking only of yourself) Would you call Leonidas and the 300 or the men at the Alamo cowards for not running away from a no win situation? (or Sanguinius or Ollanius Pious if we are only talking 40k Fluff)
Also It all comes back to the nails...the effect of the which was lesser then, they were constantly getting worse, making him more and more of a psycopathic rage monster. I think deep down he knew that and fighting and dying for a good and noble cause seems a better life (although a short one) than living as a hate-enslaved killing tool bringing the same level of oppression to the entire galaxy to me. In a very real way, that "last stand" was Angron's ONLY chance at attaining the noble persona his father intended for him considering the hand he was delt, and the Emperor stole that from him. The effect of that cannot be understated.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/24 14:30:47
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 00:36:38
Subject: Angron's weird relationship with female captain?
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Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne
Noctis Labyrinthus
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mattyrm wrote:I agree with Mel, topping yourself id the cowatds way out.
Say every single living relative and all the kids die in a fire during Thanksgiving but you live cos you nipped to the store.
What's easier? Dealing with that feeling for years, or driving off the bridge?
Dying is easy boy.. but living? That takes some doing. - Druss the Legend
Did this analogy make sense in your head? A better analogy would be if you were trying to save your family from the fire, but a fireman grabs you, and then explicitly doesn't save your family even when he could have.
Angron didn't necessarily want to die. But given the choice between abandoning his family to live and dying alongside them in a fight he started (Also known as taking responsibility for one's actions), he would have chosen the latter without hesitation. Only the choice was robbed from him by someone who had the power to save his family, but refused to do so.
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