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so, I play blood angels usually, and, to be quite frank, my toys (power weapons on Sgts, fists on priests, etc) Have more than not been the winning element to a game. Either the lone priest+1 assault troop taking out the the vehicle to grab a turn ending obj, taking out and then wiping a strike squad via a challenge o reclaim an obj, Instadeathing a T4 Chaos lord with 2+/3++ EW and FnP or any other thing, it more often works in my favor to have those points spent on the toyz, rather than a few more assault marines or such.

do others find this does not work for them? I have kept my Sgt and priest alive, who then singlehandedly wiped a riptide, or in another instance where 2 assault marines were left, disorder charged two separate dire avenger units sitting on an obj. to then overrun them and win. all because I had those toys to ignore armor saves or the like.

How many times have your geared up sergeants taken a pie plate to the face before doing anything? How many times did an objective remain uncontested because you didn’t have a squad left alive over on that side of the table?

I’m a strong proponent of boys before toys. That does not mean I don’t take upgrades from time to time, in places where I think they will mater. It does mean I’d rather have more boots on the ground then a few tricked out characters/squads.

It’s easy to see the results from wargear when you put it to use. It’s harder to see what the unit that could be purchased with points shaved from all over the army can do.

Hmmm. I thought by toys you meant things which fly or have tracks. Not sure I'd extend that to flinging excessive amounts of bling onto the boys (I play GK, so I can take a lot of bling....which turns an expensive 1 wound model into a REALLY EXPENSIVE one wound model). But, Psybacks are a steal, and super scoring!

BA toys, particularly fast DT, would definitely be up there above boys for me.

Interesting I debate a similar subject with a fellow BA player at my club. He likes to run PF and Stormshield on all his assault marine sergeants. I on the other hand might him them Melta bombs (and maybe a power weapon on the Sang Priest) and get more boots on the ground with the point saving.

I couldn't say which is better but it does illustrate that either approach is feasible.

D

I am a fan of a balance between boys and toys.

In 5th edition, I always ran all my ASM the same, 2x Melta & PF...

Now I tend to run the sergeant either bare or with a PW. My Sang priest now also tends to get a PW if I have the points. I also play at small point games, basically nothing over 1500, mostly under 1000. With this being said, at low points, MEQ need as many boots on the ground as possible.

Boys before toys within reason is usually the best approach, since an army of 100+ tactical marines with no upgrades is pretty darn weak.

Usually new players overload and upgrade everything they can all at once, so they can play larger games with smaller model collections, this is obviously not a good tactic either.

Balance is key if you want to make an allround list.

 Kaime wrote:
Boys before toys within reason is usually the best approach, since an army of 100+ tactical marines with no upgrades is pretty darn weak.

Usually new players overload and upgrade everything they can all at once, so they can play larger games with smaller model collections, this is obviously not a good tactic either.

Balance is key if you want to make an allround list.

Hmmm. Now you have me thinking. Can you build an effective Space Marine TAC list with no upgrades? Lets allow dedicated transports and anything free. I think you can. The only hard thing to cover is going to be anti-tank fire. Drop pod melta dreads and stock ironclads, vanilla LRs, Vindis, and a few other options should be able to handle that. Might be a fun list to put together...

I think it's the location. Some models and lists I like toys, but SM sergeants aren't one of those places. Now I don't play GK, BA, or BT, so I am really not expecting a sergeant to do anything in melee. My sternguard though? They get all the toys. I would take 6 sternguard with 2 heavy flamers and 4 combi meltas in a pod any day.

Boyz before toyz motto died at the beginning of 6th lol. people still say it for comical relief but it never works as a viable strat anymore barring damn good luck.

Even for my orks, which are the source of the motto, i tend to bring less boyz than you'd normally see in an ork army because they never do anything anyway with the "remove wounds from front" rule pushing them away.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Boyz before toyz motto died at the beginning of 6th lol. People still say it for comical relief but it never works as a viable strat anymore barring damn good luck.

Even for my orks, which are the source of the motto, i tend to bring less boyz than you'd normally see in an ork army because they never do anything anyway with the "remove wounds from front" rule pushing them away.

I respectfully disagree.

As for it being dead or comedic, I still follow it, and recommend it in all seriousness. And if it takes “damn good luck” to work, then I need to head to Vegas. I’m not steamrolling my games, but I give as well as I take. Maybe in top tournaments it’s dead, but the same can be said about everything but a handful of gimmick builds.

Taken to extremes it might be a little silly. Some units, like SM captains, need a few toys to work. Fielding them with just a BP/CCW would be a crazy as buying all the upgrades on a rhino. "Just enough tools to get the job done” would be a better motto, but lacks the zing or simplicity of Boys before Toys.