Troublesome Ebay Buyers...

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**Alpharius**

I thought it was interesting that the theory being floated out was that perhaps you were a 'troublesome eBay buyer' at one point!

As noted earlier, eBay really isn't friendly or supportive of the 'small time' seller anymore...

**Haight**

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
You should always ship with proof of delivery. Otherwise the guy could just claim that he never received your package and get a full refund as well as keep your models.

Yeah, this. ALways. Even if they don't pay for it, it is worth it in the long run.

I do a lot of buying and selling of minis on bartertown ; the POD is honestly for my protection more than the buyer. There is nothing, NOTHING, to prevent an unscrupulous buyer from claiming he never got it. The burden of proof would be on you.

Just a word to the wise.

As you've entered into a transaction with this guy, you do sorta have to put up with his hysteria to a point until he gets his end of the deal. Hopefully he gets what you sent with no mishap in transit... although... from your description, this sounds like the kind of guy that is going to throw a gak fit over any little thing, so i'm curious to see what his reaction is on receipt. Hopefully he is scrupulous.

-- Haight

**kb305**

Trench-Raider wrote:
*upon reflection, I felt this was out of place in the main Ebay thread, so I started a new discussion*

OK, allow me to vent for a moment....

On Monday evening, I decided to raise a little cash and clear out some excess toys by putting up some Ebay auctions. One of the lots was a small lot of painted historical figures for a game I do not play on a regular basis any more. I put the auctions up and went to bed. Sometime during the night, someone took advantage of the very fair "Buy it Now" price I put in place on the above auction and come the morning I noticed the sale. I sent the buyer a message thanking him for the purchase and stating that I would drop the figures in the mail in a day or two, as soon as I could get them safely packed and could get down down to the post office.

So far so, good, right?

Well, a few hours later, I recieve a rudely worded message from the buyer lamenting how he "hates it when he pays imediately and it takes days for an item to ship". I send the fellow a reply back, apologizing for the slight delay and explaining that the lack of a post office branch near my home and my busy work schedule makes my trips to the post office rare. Also that I had originally planned to ship all my Ebay auctions at once and that his use of the "Buy it Now" had caught me off guard. Not wanting to anger the guy too much, I packed the figures up that night after getting home from work and made a special trip to the post office the following day. I sent the buyer a message telling him that his figures were on the way.

That should have satisfied him, right?

Wrong.
He freeks out and all but accuses me of lying to him, pointing out that not only did I fail to provide tracking information (something the buyer neither requested nor paid for), but he also stated that I had yet to change the status of the item to "shipped" on the Ebay listing. (he's right, as I had not done that at the time of my email to him.)

At this point, I'm done talking to this guy. I won't reply to any more of his messages until the item actually arrives. I halfway wish that I not actually shipped out the figures already, so I could just refund the guy's money and relist the item, citing an inability to close the deal.

The worst part is, given how touchy the guy has been so far, I'm holding my breath until he gets the figures. He strikes me as the sort who will freek out at the sight of a bent bayonet or a figure coming dislodged from it's base in shipping and file Paypal complaint, so I'm not touching the money until he indicates the figures are there safe and sound.

It's a fairly minor thing, all things considered, but unreasonable buyers drive me nuts. Buyers, in my opinion, have more responsibilities than just to provide prompt payment. They should also be decent, reasonable, and patient people as well.

It's times like this that I truely regret the fact that Ebay no longer permits sellers to give neutral and negative feedback to buyers. the current enviorment gives them lisence to behave as they want with little fear of consequences for their actions

Ah well.

TR

that guys is an idiot.
if he wanted tracking he should have sent a message saying so and that he is willing to pay however much extra it will cost for that.
i had someone say he would have liked a tracking number on something that only cost 3 dollars. and yet he never said anything to me, checked out and paid the standard low shipping price. adding tracking would have well over doubled the shipping cost. some people expect you to read their minds and also lose money on your auctions so that they cant sit around tracking their 3 dollar envelope.
but, most people are quite nice.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Haight wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
You should always ship with proof of delivery. Otherwise the guy could just claim that he never received your package and get a full refund as well as keep your models.

Yeah, this. ALways. Even if they don't pay for it, it is worth it in the long run.

I do a lot of buying and selling of minis on bartertown ; the POD is honestly for my protection more than the buyer. There is nothing, NOTHING, to prevent an unscrupulous buyer from claiming he never got it. The burden of proof would be on you.

Just a word to the wise.

As you've entered into a transaction with this guy, you do sorta have to put up with his hysteria to a point until he gets his end of the deal. Hopefully he gets what you sent with no mishap in transit... although... from your description, this sounds like the kind of guy that is going to throw a gak fit over any little thing, so i'm curious to see what his reaction is on receipt. Hopefully he is scrupulous.

-- Haight

it depends on what you're selling, on low margin / cheap items this is bad advice. and i would especially never pay for the tracking out of my own pocket either. if you want to send it like that, make sure you just raise up the shipping cost.
and an donkey-cave will be an donkey-cave either way too. even if it has tracking he might try to screw you in some other way like claim it is damaged.

**Trench-Raider**

Alpharius wrote:
I thought it was interesting that the theory being floated out was that perhaps you were a 'troublesome eBay buyer' at one point!

As noted earlier, eBay really isn't friendly or supportive of the 'small time' seller anymore...

Eh.
I regard it as off-topic trolling. But I am a bit biased on the subject.

As to the final outcome of this little drama, we'll know soon enough. The projected delivery date for the package is tommorrow. Like I said, the money is in my Paypal account untouched until he tells me that he's satisfied with the transaction. Until then I'm holding my breath...

TR

**Plywood_Slayer**

Wife used to sell on FeeBay. She stopped due to all the BS she got dealing with (an admittedly
small portion) of her buyers. Ebay offered no real seller protection and entertained the bad buyers fraudulent claims (didn't get item, item not as described) and allowed feedback blackmail despite the threats going through ebay's own message system. It would take several months and Ebay would determine the claims were spurious and remove negative feedback or refund money she was defrauded, but by then we had been without the funds or product for months and the reputation damage, even if repaired, had jacked with her power seller status and fee structure. She made money and sold quite a bit, but Ebay's contempt of small independent sellers in the dispute resolution process soured her to the whole thing and she left the game.

TL;DR? If you choose to sell on FeeBay, be careful, you have no way of telling a good buyer from a bad one. And Ebay won't help or support you.

**Mak_the_Knife**

I listed a computer power supply just before Christmas for some cash, and allowed 'Make Offer'. Had two offers made, same amount, so I just picked one. Guy emails me back that he won't be able to pay for a week. Then tied to cancel as he didn't think the supply would be big enough. I had to go all 'net hardass' on him telling him I would leave negative feed back and paint his name all over the 'net. Luckily he didn't called my bluff and agreed to pay me. In 3 days. And even though I've been on ebay since 2001, and sold in the past, it had been too long and ebay held my money for another 21 days...
In the end he gave me positive feedback, and I (had to) gave him likewise positive feedback.
But the whole thing soured my to ebay, but damn if there isn't anything else...

**xraytango**

+1 For delivery confirmation!

It protects you, the sender, and them the receiver.

Honestly it doesn't cost much and even on Dakka swap shop or a recent transaction I had on The Miniatures Page, I ask for/offer DC.

The day I can't shell out a couple of bucks for something so simple is the day I don't send minis.

**Piston Honda**

Polonius wrote:
Yeah, eBay has a small percentage of just terrible buyers. They are, thankfully, a very small percentage, but they will never be pleased. You just need to make your peace with the fact that you'll at some point not only lose the auction item, but have to refund their money and still get dinged with negative feedback. It's cost of doing business.

I once got negative feedback for not including flying bases with a lot of tau drones. Now, there weren't bases in the picture, and my auction said that only what is shown was included. Didn't matter. The buyer felt they should have been included. Negative feedback, hold on the payment. At least I got to keep the cash (all $20 of it).

Keep in mind that the flea market days of ebay are over. They're in the powerseller business, and casual sellers are just a pain to them. eBay is still the best way to maximize your sale price, but is increasingly not worth it unless sheer cash is all you care about.

Had this done to me more than once, each time was able to show proof with receipt and tracking number.

Each time the package magically showed up moments after I scanned images of the receipt and posted tracking number info.

Dumb *****

**timetowaste85**

Had a good long read of that Warseer discussion. Agree with the Karma comment earlier on page one, 100%. Based on the feedback-bullying alone, I'd never jump into a trade or sale with the poster in question.

**NorseSig**

I use ebay to buy a lot because I live in a small town that doesn't have much. I try and look at things from the sellers point of view when buying to a point. I usually figure 3 to 4 days to ship at max (unless long holiday weekend) unless they state otherwise. And I don't include weekends when figuring ship time ect. And if I get sent a wrong item I don't freak out (mistakes happen). However, if you are slow to ship 5 days plus, and the item is wrong, I will probably just ask for a refund. I won't leave negative feedback unless you the seller are rude or otherwise being a d-bag and try and get out of giving a refund ect. I don't expect any more from ebay seller than I do myself and I always ask myself what is reasonable. To date I have only had 3 instances requiring the resolution center, and 2 of them were solved quickly and easily. the third is still pending. It sounds like the seller the op was talking about is trying to give himself a colonoscopy with his head. I am sorry the op is having problems with this guy, and I hope his lack of tracking doesn't come back to bite him. ALWAYS use tracking with ebay. I didn't use tracking ONCE and that was because I forgot to bring my money clip. I live a little way from town so the gas to go home and come back would have cost me more than the item. I did however promptly tell the seller and gave all the info I could. Hopefully I am not rambling too much lol.

**Formosa**

warboss wrote:
Formosa wrote:
No it's not poor form, if genuinely did nothing wrong why is be being blacklisted with no recourse of an explanation, that seems pretty damn unfair and childish.

And the response of making a separate account and saying that your friends will shill bid on their items is even MORE childish. Obviously they had some issue between them (whether related to general forum shenannigans or some financial interaction) to cause him to be blacklisted by the seller. Also, something is fishy about that "alternate" account becoming the primary one with the original abandoned which makes me think there wasn't just a single solitary problem (backed up by the dropped army comment that started this line of questioning). Why on earth, if you know someone really doesn't like you, would you go out of your way to engage in a financial transaction with them using duplicitous means? That is the ebay equivalent of trolling or sock puppeting in forum parlance. Remember... we're getting only one side of the story and despite that bias it still smells fishy (in regards to the old quote above... not the original new story in this thread)

Oh yes I agree it stinks to high heaven, but if given the benefit of the doubt then both persons are being very childish, a seller should not black list without giving a reason and of course the buyer having 3! Different accounts I agree is suspect.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry if I'm being dim, what's feedback blackmail?

**timetowaste85**

Feedback blackmail is when somebody tells you they're going to leave you negative feedback if you say anything bad, regardless of whether you did anything wrong or not. See the tale on Warseer that was linked-TR sells army for much less than value, guy pays right away, TR breaks it, refunds, guy gets upset that TR refunded money and that the awesome deal he just got was cancelled, TR threatened to leave him bad feedback if he complained that his good deal was ruined through lack of care. Guy leaves positive feedback to keep his own account untarnished from TR's poor form.

**Polonius**

It's also used by buyers to get something out of the seller, be it a discount, extra stuff, or quicker shipping. It's usualy something like asking for them to throw in extra prodcut, or you'll leave negative feedback.

**milkboy**

In these situations, we can only hope for karma, it seems. But it is poor consolation for the headaches.

**Jimsolo**

In addition to the linked example from Warseer, Hoard o Bits also blackmails their buyers into leaving positive feedback.

**AduroT**

Is there not just someone at EBay that you could cc/forward those communications onto?

**Rayvon**

Ebay will help you deal with feedback blackmailers, twice they have removed feedback from my account and banned the users responsible.

**Mak_the_Knife**

Jimsolo wrote:
In addition to the linked example from Warseer, Hoard o Bits also blackmails their buyers into leaving positive feedback.

Really? I've done quite a bit of business with them and have never had a problem.

**timetowaste85**

HoB doesn't actually blackmail you: they tell you that if their policy is that if you aren't happy with their services, they won't sell to you anymore. It's a slight difference, but I actually haven't bought from them either, since I learned about the policy. I hadn't bought much from them to begin with, either, so it's kind of an unrelated point. But there is a difference between "if you are unhappy with our service and leave a negative feedback, we won't sell to you anymore" and "If you give me bad feedback for something I screwed up, I'll leave you bad feedback too for giving me bad feedback". One is to prevent further bad feedback from continuous unhappy customers, the other is childish. I don't necessarily like HoB's policy, but I understand it. I, unfortunately, understand the dickish attitude of threats in TR's "policy", and really disapprove. Most adults should be able to tell the difference between the two.

**Howard A Treesong**

It's best to post everything recorded and pass the cost onto the buyer up front in the auction. Don't give them the option. Many buyers are cheap and won't choose recorded delivery, but will still expect you compensate them should it not arrive.

You have nothing to gain by not insisting on recorded delivery as a seller, but you do have the possibility to lose out. In the case of eBay, recorded delivery protects the seller, not the buyer, so do it every time and charge your postage accordingly. Anyone buying who disputes paying a little extra for recorded delivery isn't taking it seriously anyway. Best deter those kinds of bidders.

**Jimsolo**

Mak_the_Knife wrote:
Jimsolo wrote:
In addition to the linked example from Warseer, Hoard o Bits also blackmails their buyers into leaving positive feedback.

Really? I've done quite a bit of business with them and have never had a problem.

They ban you from purchasing from them if you give them negative feedback. And that in and of itself is understandable, and even reasonable. But they also do the same to people who leave them neutral feedback, which is tantamount to a shakedown.

Howard A Treesong wrote:It's best to post everything recorded and pass the cost onto the buyer up front in the auction. Don't give them the option. Many buyers are cheap and won't choose recorded delivery, but will still expect you compensate them should it not arrive.

You have nothing to gain by not insisting on recorded delivery as a seller, but you do have the possibility to lose out. In the case of eBay, recorded delivery protects the seller, not the buyer, so do it every time and charge your postage accordingly. Anyone buying who disputes paying a little extra for recorded delivery isn't taking it seriously anyway. Best deter those kinds of bidders.

In the US, standard delivery includes tracking, so there's no reason for US shippers to force buyers to get first class or priority shipping. I've never understood sellers who refuse to use standard shipping, but if that's not the deal in other countries, that might make sense.

Is it different overseas? Does the UK not include tracking on standard shipping?

**Rayvon**

There is no need to lose out, even if you do not have a tracked package, not if you are in the UK anyway.
You do not need tracking to claim compensation from Royal mail, proof of postage is enough to claim on lost Items up to a value of £25, although it can take up to three months to get it, this also applies on international mail.
Having said that, domestic tracking costs peanuts while it is extra five pounds for international.

**Trench-Raider**

I hate to disapoint the trolls and Trenchie Haters, but this ended well.

The buyer has never directly contacted me again since his last nastigram, but for a change the USPS's projected delivery date was correct and the package seems to have arrived yesterday. A new feedback has popped up in my profile, authored by him, that says "Reasonable seller. Nice figures". It's kind of odd in that the tone and content of his intial communications lead me to believe that he regarded me as anything but "reasonable".

No loss, no foul. It's over now and I feel comfortable in withdrawing and/or spending the payment at this point.

TR

*Edit* As this is over and the on-topic discussion has now run it's course, could a moderator lock the thread to prevent further trolling?