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 Lobomalo wrote:

Sorry, you made me laugh so hard I shot soda out of my nose.

North America has never been a serious competitor in Star Craft, ever. Look at the last World Tournament from last year and then look at Intel Extreme Masters from this year.

1. Me, following Esports for about 2 years now, can attest to a close balance between the three factions and a near-even mix of the factions by professional players.
2. StarCraft is more popular in South Korea than the US because it's a strong national phenomenon, explaining the gap and why most good SC2 players are South Korean.
3. StarCraft is not actually relevant to this discussion (oops, whoever said that was right).

 Lobomalo wrote:
Actually, nvm. You people have your minds made up about the game and that's fine.

So...same as you then?

 Lobomalo wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:

Sorry, have any of you actually played SCII?

If you have, rank and league please so I can see how far up the ladder you have ever been in your career, otherwise you're simply talking out of your bums.

SCII has never been balanced, in fact as an avid gamer myself, the only games that have been balanced are the ones that are not played competitively at all. Why else do you think people trend to certain things every few months or so and switch after nerfs and buffs happen?

You do know that words have actual meaning and that those things are easily disproved by a simple google search right?

For example, I was just yesterday watching the Red Bull Battlegrounds North America finals. The 6 players that made it to the finals were 2 Zerg, 2 Protoss and 2 Terran. Funny, that seems pretty balanced to me...

Sorry, you made me laugh so hard I shot soda out of my nose.

North America has never been a serious competitor in Star Craft, ever. Look at the last World Tournament from last year and then look at Intel Extreme Masters from this year.

That is completely irrelevant. An unbalanced game would mean that you would have the same faction skew no matter what level of competitiveness you were playing on.

GW can make back the ground that they have lost but it is going to take a while and it is going to be painful.

 Lobomalo wrote:
Actually, nvm. You people have your minds made up about the game and that's fine. I really hope you find what you are looking for as this game is obviously not for you

Will do, going to the game store myself and bringing four different games with me. I already have, it's called variety!

 Blacksails wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
Actually, nvm. You people have your minds made up about the game and that's fine.

So...same as you then?

I know what I see. It has some minor issues here and there, but nothing to get my panties in a bunch. I don't give a crap about how things were in other editions as they have zero bearing on this one. I take the game for what it is. It's fun, I enjoy it, my friends enjoy it and this is all that really matters. Everyone who feels otherwise is entitled to their opinion, but it is never going to be anything more than an opinion, a bunch of whining individuals who will never be satisfied and that is fine too. You will see me as a young, rude player and that is fine too, we are all entitled to our opinions.

I prefer to look on the bright side, you guys won't be around playing much longer I think, which means more people who want to get back to playing the game they love and less people sitting on forums complaining.

jamesk1973 wrote:
GW can make back the ground that they have lost but it is going to take a while and it is going to be painful.

I really hope they do. They already face a financial problem on the horizon as for quite some time, they have only been able to maintain profit by cutting cost and sales have gone lower and lower. Kirby and most of the upper management have to go (down), before, we will not see the good old, healthy, GW back.

 Sigvatr wrote:

jamesk1973 wrote:
GW can make back the ground that they have lost but it is going to take a while and it is going to be painful.

I really hope they do. They already face a financial problem on the horizon as for quite some time, they have only been able to maintain profit by cutting cost and sales have gone lower and lower. Kirby and most of the upper management have to go (down), before, we will not see the good old, healthy, GW back.

I think the bigger questions are:
Do they understand the need to?
Are they willing to do it?

 Lobomalo wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
Actually, nvm. You people have your minds made up about the game and that's fine.

So...same as you then?

I know what I see. It has some minor issues here and there, but nothing to get my panties in a bunch. I don't give a crap about how things were in other editions as they have zero bearing on this one. I take the game for what it is. It's fun, I enjoy it, my friends enjoy it and this is all that really matters. Everyone who feels otherwise is entitled to their opinion, but it is never going to be anything more than an opinion, a bunch of whining individuals who will never be satisfied and that is fine too. You will see me as a young, rude player and that is fine too, we are all entitled to our opinions.

I prefer to look on the bright side, you guys won't be around playing much longer I think, which means more people who want to get back to playing the game they love and less people sitting on forums complaining.

So play along with a hypothetical: GW reports one of their worst financial years in 5 years this July. The company, instead of changing course, doubles down on their current actions. They then report another bad mid year report in January of 15. The company spirals and falls apart come July 15. This is a realistic time frame given how fast TSR and many other companies their size have fallen historically.

Would you still care to disagree with so many folks that are pointing out what GW is doing wrong right now or would you still blame the players, as GW has tought you, as the fault of their demise?

 Lobomalo wrote:


I know what I see. It has some minor issues here and there, but nothing to get my panties in a bunch. I don't give a crap about how things were in other editions as they have zero bearing on this one. I take the game for what it is. It's fun, I enjoy it, my friends enjoy it and this is all that really matters. Everyone who feels otherwise is entitled to their opinion, but it is never going to be anything more than an opinion, a bunch of whining individuals who will never be satisfied and that is fine too. You will see me as a young, rude player and that is fine too, we are all entitled to our opinions.

I prefer to look on the bright side, you guys won't be around playing much longer I think, which means more people who want to get back to playing the game they love and less people sitting on forums complaining.

You continue to post this misinformed and confrontational drivel.

No one has their panties in a twist.

No one is whining or a whiner.

No one is concerned about how things were when looking at what the issues are currently.

No one is saying they aren't having fun with their friends.

No one is saying you're a young rude player (well I'm thinking that now with your posting).

I don't look at any side. I look at things for what they are and judge them accordingly. There's plenty I enjoy about 40k, but there's a lot holding me back. If you were to acknowledge the arguments being made without being so confrontational and assuming things of others, maybe you'd understand where a lot of people are coming from.

Instead, you make attack other posters, belittle them, and make yourself out to be some guiding light for the future of 40k.

And you wonder why there's negativity on these boards.

Post the way you want to be responded to.

 MWHistorian wrote:

I think the bigger questions are:
Do they understand the need to?
Are they willing to do it?

Do they care as long as they still get a pay out at the end of the day?

 Lobomalo wrote:
Actually, nvm. You people have your minds made up about the game and that's fine. I really hope you find what you are looking for as this game is obviously not for you

Well, judging by GWs financials, it's not for anyone

The question is: can they?

Any reasonable change would mean a considerable threat to all shareholders. You can't just turn the entire company around on one day and people immediately start buying stuff. Gaining trust again will take time and shareholders won't like the changes...at all.

GW put themselves in a dark, moldy pit and they keep digging deeper. Which is really sad as 40k and WHFB are still awesome games.

 Sigvatr wrote:
The question is: can they?

Any reasonable change would mean a considerable threat to all shareholders. You can't just turn the entire company around on one day and people immediately start buying stuff. Gaining trust again will take time and shareholders won't like the changes...at all.

GW put themselves in a dark, moldy pit and they keep digging deeper. Which is really sad as 40k and WHFB are still awesome games.

At least I get my Bretonnia update before it gets real grim 'n dark up in here!

 TheKbob wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
The question is: can they?

Any reasonable change would mean a considerable threat to all shareholders. You can't just turn the entire company around on one day and people immediately start buying stuff. Gaining trust again will take time and shareholders won't like the changes...at all.

GW put themselves in a dark, moldy pit and they keep digging deeper. Which is really sad as 40k and WHFB are still awesome games.

At least I get my Bretonnia update before it gets real grim 'n dark up in here!

I was hoping to get plastic Sisters before GW goes belly up.

 Sigvatr wrote:
The question is: can they?

Any reasonable change would mean a considerable threat to all shareholders. You can't just turn the entire company around on one day and people immediately start buying stuff. Gaining trust again will take time and shareholders won't like the changes...at all.

GW put themselves in a dark, moldy pit and they keep digging deeper. Which is really sad as 40k and WHFB are still awesome games.

I'm not sure that's true, not the first part anyway. Shareholders like long-term viability and long-term goals for steady growth and profits. If GW has a viable plan that can promote these things, I think the shareholders will largely be behind this plan because, let's face it, the GW shareholders are probably players, too, and if not are probably gamers and comic-book geeks to some degree. GW is not a company like Microsoft or Samsung or Apple where you see their products on every street-corner and are inundated with their advertisements at every turn. You kinda gotta know what you're getting into when you buy stock in GW.

 Lobomalo wrote:
Actually, nvm. You people have your minds made up about the game and that's fine. I really hope you find what you are looking for as this game is obviously not for you

Oh good, and now you complete the pattern by running off with a parting shot about how everyone is so narrow-minded and hateful, while doing nothing to address the arguments anyone has made. Does your entire position come down to "I like the game and you shouldn't be so negative"?

Maybe GW should learn what is it about Manolo Blahnik that makes others shell out cost equivalent to my Army cost, happily. Or Mont Blanc for making people pay 400 times the price of a normal pen. They must be doing something right that people enjoy buying their products.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
Actually, nvm. You people have your minds made up about the game and that's fine. I really hope you find what you are looking for as this game is obviously not for you

Oh good, and now you complete the pattern by running off with a parting shot about how everyone is so narrow-minded and hateful, while doing nothing to address the arguments anyone has made. Does your entire position come down to "I like the game and you shouldn't be so negative"?

As someone said before, perhaps when someone backs out of a discussion, we should let them go rather than provoke them to come back. I think everyone has voiced their opinions about the poster enough. Lets get back on topic?

 Sigvatr wrote:
Any reasonable change would mean a considerable threat to all shareholders. You can't just turn the entire company around on one day and people immediately start buying stuff. Gaining trust again will take time and shareholders won't like the changes...at all.

I think this is the big problem. GW is extremely concerned with the opinion of shareholders who know nothing about the company beyond how much profit they made and how well the stock price is doing, and I can't see the current management being willing to take the risk of telling the shareholders "we need to make some changes that will hurt profits now, but pay off in the future". Meanwhile the "casual at all costs" rule authors will continue to insist that nothing is wrong, and publishing bad rules is actually something to celebrate. End result: more cost cutting and price increases, faster releases, and more DLC. Milk that cash cow as fast as possible, until there's nothing left and GW's management can cash in their retirement deals the day before the whole thing collapses.

What GW needs is to go bankrupt ASAP so that the IP can be picked up by a company that knows how to run a game business.

I just had a funny thought: with their reputation now, is it better to take over GW or to take over Relic Forge? Lol

 Peregrine wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
Actually, nvm. You people have your minds made up about the game and that's fine. I really hope you find what you are looking for as this game is obviously not for you

Oh good, and now you complete the pattern by running off with a parting shot about how everyone is so narrow-minded and hateful, while doing nothing to address the arguments anyone has made. Does your entire position come down to "I like the game and you shouldn't be so negative"?

I answered the reasons provided to me by the moderator within this topic, I do not need to acknowledge every crack pot reason someone else has as well. I also do not need to repeat myself. If you are unhappy with something, remove yourself from the situation or find a way to make things better.

Nothing any of you have said in this conversation is helping to fix the issue. You all have your own issues with the company and you are all stubborn enough to insist that these issues are of such importance that they be addressed now.

So I ask you a series of questions.

What are you going to do about the game as it stands now?

How can you as a player improve your experience?

How can you as a player improve the experiences other have within the game?

What actions can you take to help "fix" the game that is "broken"?

Mind you, if your only answer is simply to post on the forums and talk about it, don't bother answering.

See Peregrine, you people in this thread, you talk about things, you talk about problems, but you don't have a single solution. Me, I see the problems, I accept them and I accommodate them. I find ways to work around them and I move on. I don't let it bother me, I don't let it bring me to a forum to vent my frustrations, because, though one of you refuses to admit it, in reality, this is all you are doing, venting.

There is altogether too much talking and not enough action from what I am seeing. Me, I have an excuse, my buddies are all at work and my models are stripping so I am sitting on too much free time, otherwise I'd be painting or playing as its my day off.

What is your excuse?

All of you, ask yourselves, how much time do you spend talking about the game compared to how much time you spend playing the game? Some people on these forum I see them on literally almost the entire day, posting at all hours of the day, which is a shame because all they do in their posts is start fights and vent their frustrations which helps nobody.

So, one final time, you all know the issues you have with the game.

What are you going to do about it?

Or are you just going to sit here and complain and talk about stock issues?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 milkboy wrote:


As someone said before, perhaps when someone backs out of a discussion, we should let them go rather than provoke them to come back. I think everyone has voiced their opinions about the poster enough. Lets get back on topic?

Thanks for the assist but I've been watching the discussion and its going just as I predicted. Nobody is going to do anything but talk about the problems, they won't solve anything.

Accommodating problems, which is just a fancy way of saying that you enable them, makes you apart of the problem.

Your smug stance is equivalent to being a family member of a drug addict and lording over the rest of the family for worrying about the addict while you just accept them for what they are.

At the end of the day, the family members who are concerned and voice their concern about said addict's problems are doing more to fix it, despite not directly taking any action, then the guy who just says "well it is what it is deal with it hurrrrr!"

You do realize the GW is completely fortressed up.
There is no action to take besides going up to kelly or the higher ups and punching them in the face.

Any email or attempt at contact is met with low grade flunkeys and canned messages.

Shale we all fly out the GW HQ and do a mass protest?

Blimey Lobomalo, you're so green you're still squeaking.

Your attitude isn't unusual for someone new to playing the game, everything is new and shiny, and that weighs heavily on the scales against the cynicism for those who have seen a few edition cycles.

If I could offer a word of caution, your posting style is coming off as fiercely patronising, it might be worth taking a moment and remembering you're not addressing your students, but a mix of people who will vary from younger kids to those who surpass you in experience, both in game terms and life in general, and try to use that to mitigate your tone a little.

You might find it helps people hear what you are saying if they're not getting riled by the way you're expressing it.

 Lobomalo wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
Actually, nvm. You people have your minds made up about the game and that's fine. I really hope you find what you are looking for as this game is obviously not for you

Oh good, and now you complete the pattern by running off with a parting shot about how everyone is so narrow-minded and hateful, while doing nothing to address the arguments anyone has made. Does your entire position come down to "I like the game and you shouldn't be so negative"?

I answered the reasons provided to me by the moderator within this topic, I do not need to acknowledge every crack pot reason someone else has as well. I also do not need to repeat myself. If you are unhappy with something, remove yourself from the situation or find a way to make things better.

Nothing any of you have said in this conversation is helping to fix the issue. You all have your own issues with the company and you are all stubborn enough to insist that these issues are of such importance that they be addressed now.

So I ask you a series of questions.

What are you going to do about the game as it stands now?

How can you as a player improve your experience?

How can you as a player improve the experiences other have within the game?

What actions can you take to help "fix" the game that is "broken"?

Mind you, if your only answer is simply to post on the forums and talk about it, don't bother answering.

See Peregrine, you people in this thread, you talk about things, you talk about problems, but you don't have a single solution. Me, I see the problems, I accept them and I accommodate them. I find ways to work around them and I move on. I don't let it bother me, I don't let it bring me to a forum to vent my frustrations, because, though one of you refuses to admit it, in reality, this is all you are doing, venting.

There is altogether too much talking and not enough action from what I am seeing. Me, I have an excuse, my buddies are all at work and my models are stripping so I am sitting on too much free time, otherwise I'd be painting or playing as its my day off.

What is your excuse?

All of you, ask yourselves, how much time do you spend talking about the game compared to how much time you spend playing the game? Some people on these forum I see them on literally almost the entire day, posting at all hours of the day, which is a shame because all they do in their posts is start fights and vent their frustrations which helps nobody.

So, one final time, you all know the issues you have with the game.

What are you going to do about it?

Or are you just going to sit here and complain and talk about stock issues?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 milkboy wrote:


As someone said before, perhaps when someone backs out of a discussion, we should let them go rather than provoke them to come back. I think everyone has voiced their opinions about the poster enough. Lets get back on topic?

Thanks for the assist but I've been watching the discussion and its going just as I predicted. Nobody is going to do anything but talk about the problems, they won't solve anything.

In many ways you are like me dude. But the guys you are arguing with have been doing this exact same thing for a long time against fresh meat like you (or me a few months ago). Your enjoyment of the forum will increase if you simply block peregrine for example (seriously, that guys got a bad name everywhere I go and dakka is mentioned, thats a red flag right there). The other guys arent so bad but really, just accept that they will do what they do and enjoy the game as much as you can. There are plenty of people that enjoy the game for what it is and even like the things some call flaws. You will get to know them and start realizing soon enough to just not take these guys too seriously. They can be right on some things too. But its an unwinnable war for both sides and its really much easier to just remove yourself as often as you can and let them all agree with each other for a few days before they repeat the process.

Give it 2 months and you will notice these arguments happen systematically and in the exact same fashion and order as the last. Its awfully predictable. So just avoid the loop these guys are stuck in and try squeeze what fun you can out of the forum until you get bored of it haha.

What are you going to do about it?

Complain on forums for the hobby about my issues for the game, because GW has no official channels to do so and don't care, but if enough people express a dislike of the the state of the IP, things might change.

I also refuse to spend further money on the hobby until the game reaches a playable state again.

 Lobomalo wrote:
If you are unhappy with something, remove yourself from the situation or find a way to make things better.

Why? It's much more fun to point out how you're avoiding the substance of the arguments and focusing on complaining about how negative everyone is.

Nothing any of you have said in this conversation is helping to fix the issue.

Of course not, because GW absolutely convinced that there is no issue. But the fact that GW fails to recognize their problems doesn't make our criticism any less true.

What are you going to do about the game as it stands now?

Play other games instead.

How can you as a player improve your experience?

By playing other games instead.

How can you as a player improve the experiences other have within the game?

By suggesting other games that they might find more enjoyable.

What actions can you take to help "fix" the game that is "broken"?

None, because the only way to fix the game is to delete the entire rulebook and design a new game from scratch. 40k's problems aren't a few superficial mistakes that can be FAQed away, the entire game is broken in countless different intersecting ways.

See Peregrine, you people in this thread, you talk about things, you talk about problems, but you don't have a single solution. Me, I see the problems, I accept them and I accommodate them. I find ways to work around them and I move on. I don't let it bother me, I don't let it bring me to a forum to vent my frustrations, because, though one of you refuses to admit it, in reality, this is all you are doing, venting.

Translation: STOP BEING SO NEGATIVE I DON'T LIKE NEGATIVE FORUM POSTS.

The fact that I'm not magically fixing the game doesn't make my criticism any less true. The subject of discussion here is GW's problems, not how we as individual players are fixing them for GW. Please either address the substance of the argument instead of complaining about how negative everyone is, or just leave.

 Lobomalo wrote:

What are you going to do about the game as it stands now?

I already did, I sold all of my 40k armies and focused on other, and better, games.

 Lobomalo wrote:

How can you as a player improve your experience?

By having stopped supporting a company that butchered a couple of great games and IP in their endless quest for short term profit, and instead supporting other, better companies that still value their product and their customer's play experience.

 Lobomalo wrote:

How can you as a player improve the experiences other have within the game?

By showing them just how much better and fun other games are.

 Lobomalo wrote:

What actions can you take to help "fix" the game that is "broken"?

Voting with my wallet and hope against all hope that GW notices their dwindling player base (and profits), and gets back to how they were in the 90's when they were growing year on year.

 Lobomalo wrote:

What are you going to do about it?

So, what are you doing about it? Apart from apparently supporting something that by your own admission is just a cash grab that doesn't bring anything substantively new or better to the game, that is.

Wow. GW's incompetence has turned veterans of 20+ years that are supposed to help promote the hobby into strong opponents that will actively try to get new players from starting the game. (I being one of them. I'm currently trying to talk my nephew out of buying into the game.)

Good job GW. I haven't seen this with any other game.
Achievement unlocked!

Edit: I also sold an army and bought into Warmachine and Infinity. Looking at 40k rules from the other side I see how much better things can be.

Personally my main issue is not the outright "you're not allowed to like GW blah blah blah, GW sucks ass" thing that others are saying on this thread, but just the general vibe of it. I often see in YMDC people blaming things on lack of GW playtesting and their release schedule, but then in other threads applauding the GW release schedule.

Also, honestly, one of the other reasons I refuse to quite 40k is because I've simply invested too much in it to drop it, and I love it too much to leave it behind. Yes the management might be fething it up but that doesn't make me ignore the rich background and honestly awesome games I have with a few mates up at my FLGS. I know it's not the same for tournament players or pick-up gamers but it's not hard to organise things with people. For example, we have a housrule on flyers, we just keep everything groundborne. Don't like a rule? Talk to your friends about it, come to a verdict.

It's so easy.