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Let's not devolve into petty arguements. This is an interesting topic and one I want to keep going.

Personally speaking, my own experience comes from Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Ressurection, AVP1 and Requiem, Predator 1 and 2, Predators, AVP 2010 video game and AVP Extinction for the PS2 which gave remarkably in-depth analysis of each creature and unit.

 Deadshot wrote:
Let's not devolve into petty arguements. This is an interesting topic and one I want to keep going.

Personally speaking, my own experience comes from Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Ressurection, AVP1 and Requiem, Predator 1 and 2, Predators, AVP 2010 video game and AVP Extinction for the PS2 which gave remarkably in-depth analysis of each creature and unit.

The problem is that the best Xenomorph still caps out at a Genestealer level with the Tyranids- as the Tyranids have one major advantage over everyone in melee. bs magic monomolecular claws that can sever molecular bonds. They Xenomorphs (if dropped in W40K) would just function like a discount, generic brand version of the Tyranids.

I'm not cherry picking anything but again I will address each point you have made.

Fox: show me in any book, movie, comic where any of the events of the video games are even referenced.

Tabletop rule: this one surprised me in all honesty, the fluff underpins all of the rules, otherwise how is a gauss gun and a plasma cannon different. Showing the auto rifle and las gun are identical is just one example, pulse rifles are basically auto rifles, I have seen many people on this forum even compare modern rifles to auto rifles as a comparison to the power of a las gun, I agree the las is slightly more powerful but not by much as shown by ffg dark heresy and inquisitor, these are the only stats that exist foe a fictional weapon, therefore they are correct.

Are you thick comment: comparable doesn't mean literally the same, it's means there effects can be compared, a high calibre explosive round that detonated inside the target (as shown bothdo this) with kill blow a person apart, yes as I admitted the boltgun round is a higher calibre, both are armour piecing explosive rounds, we also know that the heavy stubber is the equivalent to a modern day lsw, gpmg and all the way up to a vehicle mounted 50 cal, gw rules and fluff support this, stats in both dark heresy and 40k show it to be the same power to the bolter but lower penetration, the smart gun fits into this fluff/rules group of weapons.

Ignorant of biology: again surprised at this one, the xeno is a lifeform, and like all life it needs certain things to grow, the books and films have given us a basic understanding of the creature, but the rest we have to work out ourselves, firstly it needs an incubator to grow inside, we know Orks have the same basic internal structure as humans, skeleton, stomach, internal organs etc., they are fundamentally different lifeforms but have similar internal make up, also as shown by various movies, books and comics the xeno do not need sentient bipedal human life to reproduce, we have examples of snake aliens, dogs etc. As such we can work out that if the host has a working internal system for the parasite to absorb nutrients from then it can grow, the Orks possess a fully working internal system analogous with humans, thus as shown the alien can deposit the egg and it would grow, a question in return, why would it not?

You odd picture: laugh, all those things happened in the book's.

Wipe themselves out: who will kill themselves? The hosts won', they are taken in ones and twos, bound, impregnated and then die, when the hive is strong enough they begin to take more, this is happening in dark places in the hive or ships, people in the imperium wouldn't even care or notice these people vanish, how do you think stealers operate as this is exactly the same m.o xenos use, just different breeding styles.

Also aliens don't care if everyone is wiped out, they are like a cancer or bio weapon, look at lv426, you as a self confessed fan should know this???

Your collection while relatively extensive in your eyes is actually Quite limited, do you own earth hive? Nightmare asylum? Royal war? Or any of the other books and novels? One in particular I suggest if you don't have it is avp: war it's excellent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@deadshot: don't worry I doubt it will, I'm not sure what warranted the insults to be honest, I thought I was being polite?

Lasguns are much more powerful than modern day assault rifles or pulse rifles. These things can blow off limbs and cause very serious wounds. As in, wounds so serious that medics don't bother treating people who have taken a direct hit from one.

So, a squad of Imperial Guardsman would cream a squad of Colonial Marines because they have armor that's immune to stubbers (Which Pulse Rifles are) and have superior weapons. Against Xenomorphs... yeah, they'll take losses but the Xenomorphs will be wiped out. Don't forget that the Imperial Guard also has weapons that are fully capable of taking down the bigger gribblies like Plasma Guns and Melta.

Yeah, I'm just not seeing Xenomorphs doing anything. Maybe they'll be a nuisance for the PDF to cull every now and again but they are the victims of being from a fictional universe that has less powerful... everything than 40k does. It's like asking whether the Covenant would stand up to the Imperium or not. Within their own Universe they are a threat but because their designated opponents are equipped like they were in the Cold War they suffer in terms of power level when compared to the armies of 40k.

 Formosa wrote:
I'm not cherry picking anything but again I will address each point you have made.

Fox: show me in any book, movie, comic where any of the events of the video games are even referenced.

That's not how canon works. The games are published material. We have no reason to believe they're non canon besides your driveling on the subject. YOU have to provide evidence they are not canon- an absense of such a statement is not evidence against it, as the logical conclusion is always in the absense of a stated policy, ALL material published is canon.

Tabletop rule: this one surprised me in all honesty, the fluff underpins all of the rules, otherwise how is a gauss gun and a plasma cannon different. Showing the auto rifle and las gun are identical is just one example, pulse rifles are basically auto rifles, I have seen many people on this forum even compare modern rifles to auto rifles as a comparison to the power of a las gun, I agree the las is slightly more powerful but not by much as shown by ffg dark heresy and inquisitor, these are the only stats that exist foe a fictional weapon, therefore they are correct.

Tabletop rules mean feth all unless you actually plan to have some xenomorph miniatures fight your guardsmen. Otherwise we use the fluff, as the fluff is W40K, it is the view into the universe as if the fiction was a real universe. And if you actually have read the fluff, you'd know the destruction capabilities, ROF, and nature of plasma guns and necron gauss guns are completely different- plasma guns are effectively miniature solar flares launched in the enemy's face as giant globs of plasma that explodes upon contact like a bubble, vaporizing/cremating everything it hits. Gauss Guns strip atomic bonds, the green lightning you see is actually the gun stripping matter from the target and sucking it back into the gun. Gauss Guns don't give a gak about your armor, they strip atoms. They vaporize parts of a house just as they'll suck up chunks of a Chimera.

Are you thick comment: comparable doesn't mean literally the same, it's means there effects can be compared, a high calibre explosive round that detonated inside the target (as shown bothdo this) with kill blow a person apart, yes as I admitted the boltgun round is a higher calibre, both are armour piecing explosive rounds, we also know that the heavy stubber is the equivalent to a modern day lsw, gpmg and all the way up to a vehicle mounted 50 cal, gw rules and fluff support this, stats in both dark heresy and 40k show it to be the same power to the bolter but lower penetration, the smart gun fits into this fluff/rules group of weapons.

Except there's point to the comment. It just sounds like you're trying to lay down the tracks to making a future argument that pulse rifles are comparable to bolters in the damage department. Also, all bolts are not equal, pulse rifles are only similar to the standard ammunition. Bolters are like a gyroround gun and a 40mm grenade launcher/shotgun had a baby. It's a delivery system, not just an explosive. Bolts are loaded with acid, shrapnel, more potent explosions, meltas, psychic materials, etc. It's not just an explosive, it's just a delivery system with a very varied and unique array of ammunition possibilities. I apologize for harshness, but your statement sounded to those previously where they were laying the groundwork for absurd equivalency arguments.

Ignorant of biology: again surprised at this one, the xeno is a lifeform, and like all life it needs certain things to grow, the books and films have given us a basic understanding of the creature, but the rest we have to work out ourselves, firstly it needs an incubator to grow inside, we know Orks have the same basic internal structure as humans, skeleton, stomach, internal organs etc., they are fundamentally different lifeforms but have similar internal make up, also as shown by various movies, books and comics the xeno do not need sentient bipedal human life to reproduce, we have examples of snake aliens, dogs etc. As such we can work out that if the host has a working internal system for the parasite to absorb nutrients from then it can grow, the Orks possess a fully working internal system analogous with humans, thus as shown the alien can deposit the egg and it would grow, a question in return, why would it not?

Except we don't know how the organs of an Ork fucntion. We don't know what the body temperature of an ork is, given that it's a fungus it may not need be as warm as a human, which could hinder the growth of an embryo with a high metabolism.

You odd picture: laugh, all those things happened in the book's.

Wipe themselves out: who will kill themselves? The hosts won', they are taken in ones and twos, bound, impregnated and then die, when the hive is strong enough they begin to take more, this is happening in dark places in the hive or ships, people in the imperium wouldn't even care or notice these people vanish, how do you think stealers operate as this is exactly the same m.o xenos use, just different breeding styles.

Also aliens don't care if everyone is wiped out, they are like a cancer or bio weapon, look at lv426, you as a self confessed fan should know this???

Your collection while relatively extensive in your eyes is actually Quite limited, do you own earth hive? Nightmare asylum? Royal war? Or any of the other books and novels? One in particular I suggest if you don't have it is avp: war it's excellent.

 Formosa wrote:
Just so you guys stop making the "smart gun isn't comparable to a boltgun" it really really is

The M56 Smartgun is chambered for the M250 10×28mm High Explosive Armor Piercing caseless round, a 230 grain projectile encased in a rectangular block of Nitramine 50.[5] This round offers greater power than the M309 used by the M41A Pulse Rifle, and also offers a selectable fuse setting — a switch on the Smartgun's grip is used to switch between ammunition fusing modes, and the setting is applied to each round electronically as it is loaded into the chamber.[5] The Super setting is optimized for use against soft targets, detonating on impact, while the Delay setting will allow the round to penetrate armor before exploding

The standard bolter is a .75cal (19.5mm) diamantine-tipped mass-reactive explosive round fired by a two-stage chemical-explosive/gyrojet propulsion system. The weapon that fires it is linked to a tactical targeting system in the Space Marine's helmet, permitting accurate fire over significant distances.

So not only is the bolt-round almost twice as big as the smartgun, its round is intelligently explosive... and extremely armor-piercing. It also has the benefits of the Space Marine's targeters, which has been presented in some sources as permitting in-flight course correction to a degree. Sure, it won't make 90 degree turns, but a 5 degree course correction to hit center-mass is plausible. Once the round is inside the target, the mass-reactive explosive goes off. This means that the bolt-round is also much like a grenade, with a massive chunk of armor-piercing space-metal exploding inside the target. As we've been told by a number of books, this will literally cause a person to disappear into a shower of meaty chunks. Xenomorphs are not, internally, very tough. They have an insectoid exoskeleton, but their torsos appear to have no internal support structure. When you have an explosive inside there all of a sudden, this is very bad for you, because most of your internal organs are going to go shooting out of that hole that the explosive made coming into your chest cavity. As we've seen in the Alien franchise, their organic acids are powerful, but not exceptionally fast. The acid will not have time to dissolve the bolt round before it explodes, as this happens micro-seconds after penetration.

Additionally, bolters can pack things like mutagenic acids (extremely effective against Tyranids), anti-psychic munitions, melta charges, and other specialty payloads for specific target-types.

The heavy bolter also features all of these things, but is a 1.00cal (25.8mm) round, and is shot from a weapon with a much higher rate of fire and superior staying power compared to a regular bolter, being fed from a backpack ammunition supply that can hold up to 1000 rounds (varies by source), as opposed to the standard 24-round boltgun magazine.

Nah, I think Xenomorphs would definitely have Fleet and possibly Leaping as well. Those things ]fast.

Fast but squishy. If I was going to stat up Xenomorphs... probably something like,

WS 5 BS 0 S 4 T 3 W 2 I 6 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 5+

Type: Infantry

Weapons: Rending Claws, Tail

Special Rules: Furious Charge, Fleet, Move Through Cover

Tail: The Xenomorph may make an additional Tail Attack at Initiative 1. This is made at +4 Strength

 Wyzilla wrote:


Are you so ignorant of biology to think that fungal based life would be at all similar to what xenomorphs normally use as hosts (carbon based life)

Spoiler:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh gak, wait, you're serious.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
J/K

 Furyou Miko wrote:

WS 5 BS 0 S 4 T 3 W 2 I 6 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 5+

Type: Infantry

Weapons: Rending Claws, Tail

Special Rules: Furious Charge, Fleet, Move Through Cover

Tail: The Xenomorph may make an additional Tail Attack at Initiative 1. This is made at +4 Strength

I like this stat line, especially the additional tail attack, the initiative 1 is good as it shows that usually there is some grappling done before the tail comes into play. There are also various types of Xenomorphs to give some additional buffs to WS, S and T for things like the Warrior, Praetorian and the Juggernaught...and of course the Queen

All in all, I would say that the Xenomorphs could be added into the fluff as a splinter fleet of the main Tyrannid fleets, or as a genetically engineered weapon that used a few captured tyrannid gribblies as a baseline. Using the above stat line as the baseline Drone we could have:
Warrior:
WS 5 BS 0 S 5 T 3 W 2 I 6 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 5+

Praetorians:
WS 5 BS 0 S 5 T 4 W 2 I 6 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 5+

Juggernaughts:
WS 5 BS 0 S 5 T 4 W 2 I 6 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 4+

Queen:
WS 5 BS 0 S 6 T 5 W 3 I 5 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 4+

There are a lot of other types of Xenomorphs that could be built into an army like Queen Mothers, Predaliens, Dog Bursters, etc...so yeah, I could see them as a minor faction for hardcore Aliens fans in 40k. But then that would open the door for Yautja (Predators) and all sorts of rampant fan boy-ism, and we certainly can't have that, can we?

-STS

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Lasguns are much more powerful than modern day assault rifles or pulse rifles. These things can blow off limbs and cause very serious wounds. As in, wounds so serious that medics don't bother treating people who have taken a direct hit from one.

So, a squad of Imperial Guardsman would cream a squad of Colonial Marines because they have armor that's immune to stubbers (Which Pulse Rifles are) and have superior weapons. Against Xenomorphs... yeah, they'll take losses but the Xenomorphs will be wiped out. Don't forget that the Imperial Guard also has weapons that are fully capable of taking down the bigger gribblies like Plasma Guns and Melta.

Yeah, I'm just not seeing Xenomorphs doing anything. Maybe they'll be a nuisance for the PDF to cull every now and again but they are the victims of being from a fictional universe that has less powerful... everything than 40k does. It's like asking whether the Covenant would stand up to the Imperium or not. Within their own Universe they are a threat but because their designated opponents are equipped like they were in the Cold War they suffer in terms of power level when compared to the armies of 40k.

This is probably the best assessment.

Xenos would be annoying, but not super dangerous. They'd probably be ever-present on a few planets and require a good muster of the PDF every now and then. They'd also probably be problematic on quite a few space-ships, causing some transport ships to go dark / have to put up a good fight in their own holds as they cross through space to reach their destinations.

At the end of the day though, they're just not broken enough to be a true threat in 40k. It's unlikely they'd be exterminated from the universe entirely, but they'd never be a true power-player.

EDIT: Unless they, somehow, managed to catch a very small amount of Tyranids totally broken off from their hive-fleet. Then it's possible that a sufficiently strong Xenos hive could breed from the nids to become.. Well, super xenos. Not quite Tyranid strength, but way more threatening than the basic alien breeds. That could cause a chain reaction which could eventually see them becoming a global player, but it'd be pretty unlikely and take ages.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Nah, I think Xenomorphs would definitely have Fleet and possibly Leaping as well. Those things fast.

Fast but squishy. If I was going to stat up Xenomorphs... probably something like,

WS 5 BS 0 S 4 T 3 W 2 I 6 A 2 Ld 10 Sv 5+

Type: Infantry

Weapons: Rending Claws, Tail

Special Rules: Furious Charge, Fleet, Move Through Cover

Tail: The Xenomorph may make an additional Tail Attack at Initiative 1. This is made at +4 Strength

Squishy mean two wounds?
I would make that one. Actually, I would just copy-paste the genestealer rules, with maybe a few tweaks like acid blood and only T3 and ignore difficult terrain (because those things can run on the ceiling!). But then again, I think genestealers should ignore difficult terrain too.


As for how well Aliens would fare in 40k, this is entirely dependent on the author point of view. They could decide that Aliens outrun eldars, outnumber orks and tear through power armor, and they could also decide even PDF are able to deal with them efficiently.

Wyz: that's exactly how a Canon exists, firstly you take the original material published by the studio as the main canon, then any books they publish or tv series they make.

If we go by your logic then there are predators in the original alien franchise, cos comic books and stuff say so, no, there are 3 distinct and separate universes, aliens, predator and lastly aliens vs predator, all the avp games fit into the avp universe and are not canon in any other.

So on one hand you claim the rules and fluff have nothing to with each other, then on the other you use fluff to justify the difference in tabletop rules for a plasma gun and Gauss gun...hmm, like it or lump it the smart gun fluff wise is a heavy stubber, tt wise it has comparable stats to a bolter, and if anyone had actually bothered to read the fluff for the smart gun I posted up they'd actually agree I think.

And gentleman and ladies, I have never compared a PULSE RIFLE to a BOLTGUN, im comparing a SMART GUN to a HEAVY STUBBER which is comparable to a boltgun power wise. Sorry for the emphasis but I feel people are just skimming and not actually reading the thread.

We do know the internal makeup of an ork?? It's in xenology and lots of other places, with a few notable exceptions it is almost exactly the same as a human, body temperature is a fair point but not for a creature that survives in a vacuum, and Orks are not fungus as so many people seem to think, they are a hybrid of fungus and normal animals as we'd see it, if I'm honest I think an alien that came from an ork would be an amorphous blob as it just couldn't assimilate the sheer amount of genetic data an ork possesses, or the alien would be a ork assimilated alien, that's just personal opinion though of course.
"

I ran a scenario with three groups of players at our club:

Imperial Inquisiton team investigating / exterminating a hive
Alien Hive defenders
Predators drawn to the conflict

used the very nice pre painted Aliens and Pred models from hero clix - everyone had a blast and the game ended with the Queen fighting the Eldar Predator -

 Mr Morden wrote:
I ran a scenario with three groups of players at our club:

Imperial Inquisiton team investigating / exterminating a hive
Alien Hive defenders
Predators drawn to the conflict

used the very nice pre painted Aliens and Pred models from hero clix - everyone had a blast and the game ended with the Queen fighting the Eldar Predator -

Very interesting...what stat lines did you use for the Aliens and Preds? I would be interested...

-STS

I'll see If I can find it

And gentleman and ladies, I have never compared a PULSE RIFLE to a BOLTGUN, im comparing a SMART GUN to a HEAVY STUBBER which is comparable to a boltgun power wise. Sorry for the emphasis but I feel people are just skimming and not actually reading the thread.

No, it really isn't. A heavy stubber isn't even the same caliber as a boltgun, and lacks all of the techno-wizardy that makes the boltgun the poster-child ranged weapon of the setting.

 Psienesis wrote:

And gentleman and ladies, I have never compared a PULSE RIFLE to a BOLTGUN, im comparing a SMART GUN to a HEAVY STUBBER which is comparable to a boltgun power wise. Sorry for the emphasis but I feel people are just skimming and not actually reading the thread.

No, it really isn't. A heavy stubber isn't even the same caliber as a boltgun, and lacks all of the techno-wizardy that makes the boltgun the poster-child ranged weapon of the setting.

You still seem to misunderstand his arguement.

He argues that a Smart Gun is similar to a Heavy Stubber (Str 4, AP-)
A heavy stubber (Str 4) is comparable in power levels to a Bolter (Str 4).
Therefore, a Smart Gun is similar to a Bolter.

Its a flawed arguement but that's the basis of it.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Squishy mean two wounds?
I would make that one. Actually, I would just copy-paste the genestealer rules, with maybe a few tweaks like acid blood and only T3 and ignore difficult terrain (because those things can run on the ceiling!). But then again, I think genestealers should ignore difficult terrain too.


As for how well Aliens would fare in 40k, this is entirely dependent on the author point of view. They could decide that Aliens outrun eldars, outnumber orks and tear through power armor, and they could also decide even PDF are able to deal with them efficiently.

Actually, on further consideration, I'd probably make them T2. Bullets go through Xenomorphs pretty easily, but they do take a few rounds to put down, while that would allow the bolter to Instant Death the damn things as is appropriate for its fluff.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

And gentleman and ladies, I have never compared a PULSE RIFLE to a BOLTGUN, im comparing a SMART GUN to a HEAVY STUBBER which is comparable to a boltgun power wise. Sorry for the emphasis but I feel people are just skimming and not actually reading the thread.

No, it really isn't. A heavy stubber isn't even the same caliber as a boltgun, and lacks all of the techno-wizardy that makes the boltgun the poster-child ranged weapon of the setting.

You still seem to misunderstand his arguement.

He argues that a Smart Gun is similar to a Heavy Stubber (Str 4, AP-)
A heavy stubber (Str 4) is comparable in power levels to a Bolter (Str 4).
Therefore, a Smart Gun is similar to a Bolter.

Its a flawed arguement but that's the basis of it.

No, I understand that. The basis of the problem is the extremely-limited mechanics of the tabletop, rather than the much-wider range of possibilities provided by the fluff the tabletop game is based on. This is one of the many, many reasons why a d6 system is terrible.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Actually, on further consideration, I'd probably make them T2. Bullets go through Xenomorphs pretty easily, but they do take a few rounds to put down, while that would allow the bolter to Instant Death the damn things as is appropriate for its fluff.

Wait, two wounds with T2? That does not make any sense. T3 W1 is perfect there.
(Bullets go through humans quite easily too. And the weapon they use in the movie looks pretty violent!)

Xenomorphs can keep on going without legs, they just haul themselves forwards and keep trying to kill you. I guess Feel No Pain would probably be an adequate alternative.

They are still pretty squishy. And without legs, they are way slower .

 Formosa wrote:
Wyz: that's exactly how a Canon exists, firstly you take the original material published by the studio as the main canon, then any books they publish or tv series they make.
If we go by your logic then there are predators in the original alien franchise, cos comic books and stuff say so, no, there are 3 distinct and separate universes, aliens, predator and lastly aliens vs predator, all the avp games fit into the avp universe and are not canon in any other.

No. Unless they've made a statement the games are non canon, we have no reason to believe they aren't. You have to back up your claim with evidence of Fox stating they're non canon. Your poor attempt at a failed equivilancy argument is utter nonsense because ALIEN(S), and Predator are seperate franchises on their own, with Aliens versus Predator being its own unique franchise. Now prove the games aren't canon with a direct statement or drop the claim.

So on one hand you claim the rules and fluff have nothing to with each other, then on the other you use fluff to justify the difference in tabletop rules for a plasma gun and Gauss gun...hmm, like it or lump it the smart gun fluff wise is a heavy stubber, tt wise it has comparable stats to a bolter, and if anyone had actually bothered to read the fluff for the smart gun I posted up they'd actually agree I think.

Are you fething thick? I never stated anything at all about the table top.on the nature of plasma guns and gauss guns, I was speaking purely about the lore.

And gentleman and ladies, I have never compared a PULSE RIFLE to a BOLTGUN, im comparing a SMART GUN to a HEAVY STUBBER which is comparable to a boltgun power wise. Sorry for the emphasis but I feel people are just skimming and not actually reading the thread.

Except you were laying the groundwork for such an argument and were arguing they were similar despite it not only being false (as bolters are not purely explosive, it's a mere ammo type), but also it being a pointless observation to even bother making.

We do know the internal makeup of an ork?? It's in xenology and lots of other places, with a few notable exceptions it is almost exactly the same as a human, body temperature is a fair point but not for a creature that survives in a vacuum, and Orks are not fungus as so many people seem to think, they are a hybrid of fungus and normal animals as we'd see it, if I'm honest I think an alien that came from an ork would be an amorphous blob as it just couldn't assimilate the sheer amount of genetic data an ork possesses, or the alien would be a ork assimilated alien, that's just personal opinion though of course.
"

No, we don't. What we do know however is that Orks are fungal based life, so we don't have any reason at all to assume they operate like a normal vertebrate. Especially since you can stitch the head of a decapitated Ork back on to heal the Ork Boyz. All we know is that they bleed, they have a skeleton (although not of its composition, just that they have one), and they're highly evolved fungi. That's it. We don't know if Xenomorphs can infect them, it's completely in the dark.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Prove it with a statement from FOX. They lisened and published the games. There is no reason to think they are not canon When The Games Are The Reason Why AVP Exists In The First Place. I suppose the movies are no longer canon for star wars either?

Getting a huge attitude when you are completely wrong is kind of entertaining.

1: AVP started as a comic
2: There have been a lot of AVP games since early/mid 90's with very different game play

Video games are built with game play over fluff, so unless there is a desire to make a tabletop game behave like a specific video game it would make sense to use the movies, comics, or books for inspiration because they have story power levels instead of game play power levels and 40k doesn't play like a video game where the player plays one person.

Indeed, AVP started out as a Dark Horse comic book series in the early 90s. Those comic books are why the AvP franchise exists. And they're really freaking good... far better than any AVP movie (or, for that matter, any Alien or Predator stand-alone movie) that has been released since then.

 snooggums wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Prove it with a statement from FOX. They lisened and published the games. There is no reason to think they are not canon When The Games Are The Reason Why AVP Exists In The First Place. I suppose the movies are no longer canon for star wars either?

Getting a huge attitude when you are completely wrong is kind of entertaining.

1: AVP started as a comic
2: There have been a lot of AVP games since early/mid 90's with very different game play

Video games are built with game play over fluff, so unless there is a desire to make a tabletop game behave like a specific video game it would make sense to use the movies, comics, or books for inspiration because they have story power levels instead of game play power levels and 40k doesn't play like a video game where the player plays one person.

Except there is no reason to believe the events of the videogame are non canon. While gameplay is non-canon, the events logically are. The only weapons the rookie had access to was a flamethrower, a DMR, the pulse rifle, the smartgun, and a 40mm grenade launcher. Even going for the absolute highest end with the grenade launcher, the Predalien would get shredded. It doesn't help either that lasguns are still more powerful than pulse rifles and would easily one-shot any Xenomorph. The only weapon a Predalien might survive in W40K that has widespread use is the Imperial Guard autopistol.

But there simply is no ability for xexnomorphs to be a threat to any faction in W40K given their shear pathetic nature compared to every other faction. Tyranids are everything Xenomorphs are, but better in every single possible way, be it intelligence, durability, speed, or strength. The OP should have thought the idea out more before dropping the Xeno's into the universe. Even the THING would be more successful than xenomorphs.

 Wyzilla wrote:
It doesn't help either that lasguns are still more powerful than pulse rifles

No. You think that they are more powerful. But you have no way to actually compare them because they do not exist. Hence any author that get official license to do some Alien 40k crossover can throw any kind of Applied Phlebotinum mumbo-jumbo to justify pulse rifle being more powerful than even bolters.
Do not underestimate the power of Applied Phlebotinum and other handy plot devices.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Except there is no reason to believe the events of the videogame are non canon. While gameplay is non-canon, the events logically are. The only weapons the rookie had access to was a flamethrower, a DMR, the pulse rifle, the smartgun, and a 40mm grenade launcher. Even going for the absolute highest end with the grenade launcher, the Predalien would get shredded. It doesn't help either that lasguns are still more powerful than pulse rifles and would easily one-shot any Xenomorph. The only weapon a Predalien might survive in W40K that has widespread use is the Imperial Guard autopistol.

But there simply is no ability for xexnomorphs to be a threat to any faction in W40K given their shear pathetic nature compared to every other faction. Tyranids are everything Xenomorphs are, but better in every single possible way, be it intelligence, durability, speed, or strength. The OP should have thought the idea out more before dropping the Xeno's into the universe. Even the THING would be more successful than xenomorphs.

Using the game Space Marine as canon with the exact same logic as you are using for AVP:

Space Marine Characters should get wounds back when they kill Orks with a flashy move, this could be represented by any roll of a '6' in assault
When Assault Marines use their jetpacks to assault, the models they assault in base to base should be knocked back and unable to attack for the first round

No really, it has nothing to do with whether something is canon. The problem is you are measuring relative power levels based on game balance values and effects when a tabletop skirmish game has no relative power levels as a FPS or plat former. It is simply a terrible comparison.

 snooggums wrote:

When Assault Marines use their jetpacks to assault, the models they assault in base to base should be knocked back and unable to attack for the first round

FWIW, assuming you put some kind of limit ('The target's Toughness may not be higher than the Space Marine's Strength') this is a pretty cool idea and would make Assault Marines a little more viable in melee, since one of their biggest problems is general lack of melee ability.

Derail over, return to topic.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
It doesn't help either that lasguns are still more powerful than pulse rifles

No. You think that they are more powerful. But you have no way to actually compare them because they do not exist. Hence any author that get official license to do some Alien 40k crossover can throw any kind of Applied Phlebotinum mumbo-jumbo to justify pulse rifle being more powerful than even bolters.
Do not underestimate the power of Applied Phlebotinum and other handy plot devices.

We do have means to compare them, we have feats from the Black Library and visuals and text for pulse rifles from the Comics and ALIENS.


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 snooggums wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Except there is no reason to believe the events of the videogame are non canon. While gameplay is non-canon, the events logically are. The only weapons the rookie had access to was a flamethrower, a DMR, the pulse rifle, the smartgun, and a 40mm grenade launcher. Even going for the absolute highest end with the grenade launcher, the Predalien would get shredded. It doesn't help either that lasguns are still more powerful than pulse rifles and would easily one-shot any Xenomorph. The only weapon a Predalien might survive in W40K that has widespread use is the Imperial Guard autopistol.

But there simply is no ability for xexnomorphs to be a threat to any faction in W40K given their shear pathetic nature compared to every other faction. Tyranids are everything Xenomorphs are, but better in every single possible way, be it intelligence, durability, speed, or strength. The OP should have thought the idea out more before dropping the Xeno's into the universe. Even the THING would be more successful than xenomorphs.

Using the game Space Marine as canon with the exact same logic as you are using for AVP:

Space Marine Characters should get wounds back when they kill Orks with a flashy move, this could be represented by any roll of a '6' in assault
When Assault Marines use their jetpacks to assault, the models they assault in base to base should be knocked back and unable to attack for the first round

No really, it has nothing to do with whether something is canon. The problem is you are measuring relative power levels based on game balance values and effects when a tabletop skirmish game has no relative power levels as a FPS or plat former. It is simply a terrible comparison.

..

No, your statement is a complete false equivilance. My statement is simply basic logical deduction. It has absolutely nothing to do with game mechanics, simply pure events and what we know the Rookie had on his person.

1) Man enters room with X weapons.

2) Man exits room and leave the corpse of a Praetorian behind him.

3)Therefore, man must have used X weapons to kill Praetorian, a low and high end set of feats can be deduced. Low end is him using his pistol to kill the Praetorian, high end is the grenade launcher on the pulse rifle.

Your poor attempt to discredit my argument completely differs however to the point they're completely different, feth I can't even understand what you wrote, it's just gibberish. I come from a forum centered on versus debates between fictional entities, I'm used to this. Now is the AVP side willing to provide any feats/calcs for Pulse Rifles, or feats for the durability of Praetorians?

 Wyzilla wrote:
We do have means to compare them, we have feats from the Black Library and visuals and text for pulse rifles from the Comics and ALIENS.

Well, you do have descriptions of bolt shooting and pulse rifle shooting, but do you have example of pulse rifle shooting at, say, space marines, or bolter shooting at xenomorphs? No? Then your comparison do not hold.