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 zachwho wrote:
idk, i just think the ork formation with green tide is the way to go. with some pain boys, warboss, and extra meks, backed by whatever points you can spare for lootas.

that's the direction I'm going to head in anyways!

the changes to waaagh ere we and sluggas being cheaper now, im honestly excited. are warbosses restricted to only one now?

i just can't wait to get the book so i can roll tide!

Slugga boys are the same price as in the last codex, they just got stikkbommz.

If you're ever going to give your warboss a big choppa, give him 'eadwompas choppa. It's 5 points less than a PK, and still brings him up to S7, 8 on the charge. Any to wound roll of 6 will automatically outright kill anything barring invulnerable saves or EW, a roll of six to pen a vehicle will also grant another d3 armor penetration, though no AP2. Considering the amount of attacks a warboss has, that's pretty scary, no MC would want to pick a fight with him.

I'm struggling to decide on the overall composition of my list. As of now, I have a fleet of trukk boyz with support in the form of Lootas and a Blitza (or Burna) Bommer. From here I want to add MSU MANz missiles, and after that is where I'm stuck. Should I add a lot of HQs to babysit the trukk boyz? Should I drop the points for a battlewagon or two? Replace some trukks with looted wagons? Buy buggies? My understanding is that, even in the new book, if you're going with trukk boyz you need low AV saturation and -speed-.

How about taking a Strategic warlord trait and an extra one with the "finkin cap". If you got the "infiltrate 3 units" you can place a defence line in the middle of the field with 3 big ork mobs behind it. First turn move in with bikes/battle wagons etc. and get a great turn 2 assault.

Also possible to add a mega armour warboss with the "lucky stic" to stay up front to reroll those 2+ mega armour rolls.

dunno if this is all possible but I really like to see that codex..!!

I think there are some exciting possibilities for this book, and my mind keeps going back to Trukks and Bikes despite my being a Bad Moon who prefers Flash Gitz and MANZ. Strategy change is in the air as well, of course. I almost feel like charging straight ahead into the fight (the normal Ork taktik) might not be the way to go all the time.

I'm thinking 3 Battlewagons with Killkannon and 4 Rokkits Defrolla and Grots. This will be on the board, moving up slowly and laying down some nice firepower. Flash Gitz on board for some more anti infantry firepower. Right behind them a biker star: Zhadsnark, Painboy, Big Mek w/KFF, full unit of Warbikes. Between the KFF for Battlewagons and the BW blocking LoS, this could be a nice way to force your way up the board. Trukk Boyz behind the Battlewagons or on the flanks to fly out and get objectives, supported by Zhadsnark and crew to hit like a late game blitz. Add in Tankbustaz, more Warbikes or whatever else you feel you need in support...perhaps some Traktor Kannonz.

I wouldn't combine an ordnance weapon with rokkits, since most of them are going to miss. Either use big shootaz, or simply leave them at home. Either way, I've never been too impressed with the killkannon, it simply lacks punch and range.

I think it does pack some punch, although it is not gonna ID any Space Marine Captains anytime soon (nor pen any mid-high armour vehicles...). But it still does wound almost anything on a 2+, so I think it's still a good gun.

I gave them a spin during last edition, and even perfect hits were... underwhelming. Since they just dropped in price and haven't changed otherwise, it's pretty much the same now.

Does anyone see any great benefit to putting Kaptin Badrukk in a unit other than Flash Gits now? It seems that the combination of firepower and leadership should have a lot of utility, but his weapon is just a bit too specific to put him in a lot of units.

I don't think my list will change too much, I play at 1500 and usually run 2x30 squads of shoota boyz, with nobz, pk, (now they'll have BP's) and 2 warbosses with pk, cb, bp. Sprinkle in some deffkopats and warbuggies, lootas, and a nob squad and that's pretty much what I do.

The obvious things are putting the boss poles on basically anything that can take them now, removing cybork bodies from my warbosses, and so on.

I do feel strongly about painboyz though when it comes to 30 boy squads. With my gretchin squad manning the aegis defense line / quad gun, I think that qualifies for 3 HQ's?

I was thinking of doing Mad Dok Grotznik, Painboy, Warboss. Because of the way challenges work, I like having two power klaw characters in each squad so regardless one would always be able to do work., hence the two warbosses attached to my boyz in the original lists. The painboyz aren't great in melee combat, so that's why I was thinking about the Mad Dok, he still has a power klaw and would let me keep that aspect of my list in tact while he also gives the 5+ FNP. I like the idea of a big mek with a kff or a weirdboy even but with the new Waaaaaaagh! 1 Warboss seems pretty essential.

I'd also probably change from the koptas to the buggies just to not have to deal with the koptas leadership. Ideally at 1500 I think it would look something like this, with 20 points to spare, (1480)

1500

(HQ) (300)
Warboss – PK, BP - 90
Mad Dok Grotsnik – 160
Painboy - 50

(Elite) (0)

(Troops) (578)
29 shoota boyz 3 big shootas /w nob leader, PK, BP – 263
29 shoota boyz 3 big shootas /w nob leader, PK, BP – 263
14 gretchen /w 1 runt herder - 52

(Fast Attack) (250)
5 TL RL warbuggies - 125
5 TL RL warbuggies – 125

(Heavy Support) (252)
6 Lootas – 84
6 Lootas – 84
6 Lootas - 84

(Fortification) (100)
Aegis Defense line /w quad gun – 100

(Disclaimer! Don't have the leaked book so some of this could be off, I think Gretchen points cost may have changed, nob leaders on boyz squads, etc)

I am also a casual player, so this may look absolutely awful to you, but it's worked for me so far! Just putting my thoughts out there for 7th / the new book.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Does anyone see any great benefit to putting Kaptin Badrukk in a unit other than Flash Gits now? It seems that the combination of firepower and leadership should have a lot of utility, but his weapon is just a bit too specific to put him in a lot of units.

He kinda goes well with a unit that's not good at shooting anyways, like MANz or nobz. If he's the only one shooting, there is no antisynergy.

Otherwise, a unit of kustom mega-kannons sound like a good home for him.

 Jidmah wrote:
I wouldn't combine an ordnance weapon with rokkits, since most of them are going to miss. Either use big shootaz, or simply leave them at home. Either way, I've never been too impressed with the killkannon, it simply lacks punch and range.

True, but what that combination does bring is versatility, threat and endurance for a decent amount of points. With all firing, there is some nice anti-MEQ. Just Rokkits are good vs Armor, so don't fire the Ordnance. The main job is blocking LoS with overlapped armor 14 and granting 5++. Of course, this is all theoretical at this point.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Does anyone see any great benefit to putting Kaptin Badrukk in a unit other than Flash Gits now? It seems that the combination of firepower and leadership should have a lot of utility, but his weapon is just a bit too specific to put him in a lot of units.

Badrukk.

I could see him going with tankbustas, or maybe even lootas.

I agree that the problem with him is the specialness of his gun, its mid range strength but low ap. He has no real hand to hand mojo so you either put him with a shooty unit, or put him in a unit that doesn't want to run but has hth mojo.

With lootas the strength of the gun is the same, but his is less range than the other lootas, he also could bring with him some ammo runts which would give the unit rerolls.

With tankbustas his gun is near the strength of a rokkit, and if the unit has some tankhammerz he has some hth defense.

I could also see him in a 5 man kommando squad that has 2 rokkits or 2 burnaz, which would also give Badrukk stealth under the new dex, and outflank if you wanted.

I wouldn't put him with MANz or Nobz as they want to run..and if badrukk runs hes not shooting so why did you buy him anyways.

blaktoof wrote:
I wouldn't put him with MANz or Nobz as they want to run...

I've got some bad news for your meganobs, I'm afraid.

Wait, does that lucky stixx allow for any re-rolls of any nature?

I think some Codex Re-writing is in order... This sucks. I'd much rather have 'Eavy armor on Flashgitz for example

Orks get all this gak and half my characters are cut and my name is retconned. Damn. Anyway will the move to HS cut down on lootas.


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 Overlord Thraka wrote:
I think some Codex Re-writing is in order... This sucks. I'd much rather have 'Eavy armor on Flashgitz for example

at least you didnt get half your characters removed and a taurox.

How are you guys gonna tackle heavy armoured targets: Leman russ tanks and MC with 2+ saves?

Previously my best bet were small units of warbikers with a PK. Not quite sure now. Speeding mega nobz forward looks to put plenty of pressure on the opponent, but a savvy player will just wreck their trukk in turn 1 half of the time.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
Orks get all this gak and half my characters are cut and my name is retconned. Damn. Anyway will the move to HS cut down on lootas.


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 Overlord Thraka wrote:
I think some Codex Re-writing is in order... This sucks. I'd much rather have 'Eavy armor on Flashgitz for example

at least you didnt get half your characters removed and a taurox.

Doubt Lootas are going anywhere. They're still reliable anti-vehicle and anti-flyer. Mek Gunz are good, but also $46 a pop and lots of Ork players already have their lootas.

While I weep for Marbo and Bastonne (both of whom I used in my guard counts-as), at least you still get invulnerable saves and Valkyrie/Vendetta squadrons. We still can't even squadron Dakka Jets.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
Orks get all this gak and half my characters are cut and my name is retconned. Damn. Anyway will the move to HS cut down on lootas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
I think some Codex Re-writing is in order... This sucks. I'd much rather have 'Eavy armor on Flashgitz for example

at least you didnt get half your characters removed and a taurox.

No but we got our invuls removed, cover removed and bunch of HS slots

 Billagio wrote:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
Orks get all this gak and half my characters are cut and my name is retconned. Damn. Anyway will the move to HS cut down on lootas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
I think some Codex Re-writing is in order... This sucks. I'd much rather have 'Eavy armor on Flashgitz for example

at least you didnt get half your characters removed and a taurox.

No but we got our invuls removed, cover removed and bunch of HS slots

Guys. No one is more upset about the insane/ inane Ork changes than me, but can we keep this thread positive, please?

We need honest talk about what to do to keep us competitive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Could someone explain why I would use the FoC from the codex, instead of just doing a normal double FoC?

Hammer of wrath on roll of 10+ doesn't seem worth it.

I think my course of action is going to be clear. I've always enjoyed CC most with Orks. Dakka is fine and all, but nothing feels better than slaughtering tanks by beating on them with my Choppa and Klaws. I've always loved Kanz anyway, and being able to pack 6 in one slot is AWESOME to me, even with their Panic rule now. I'm probably going to end up getting my mitts on 2 Morkanaughts, slapping KFF on them, and setting up a Kan wall with 5++ Invul bubbles, with Boyz taking up the rear (or possibly front, depending on scenario). Maybe field a Big Mek with another KFF for once the Boyz end up getting a little too far from the overlap bubble. Kanz and Naughts will drop rokkits and templates on the enemies, with little Meks inside the Naughts to keep the thing running, Painboyz with the Boyz to keep em stitched up.

If I'm feeling really risky (Which I usually am), I feel my Weirdboyz will see a lot of play with our new table. The witchfires are awesome, or being able to tele my blob of Boyz in while they try to deal with my invul walkers is always a neat idea as well. Maybe Ill run 2 Weirds in 30 strong blobs, keep them behind the Walkers, and try to pop off a teleport and open fire/charge the next turn into select targets, all while my walkers continue to hail fire on them.

Please keep complaints about the codex out of this threads, this one is about tactics. There are at least three threads which are full of complaints, keep them there. Especially so for codices other than the ork codex.

mrfantastical wrote:Could someone explain why I would use the FoC from the codex, instead of just doing a normal double FoC?

Hammer of wrath on roll of 10+ doesn't seem worth it.

Well, two reasons:
1) You don't want four troops, but three HQs. At low point levels this might be a bigger issue than in larger games, but I don't really see a use for gretchin anymore, so I don't want a bunch in my list just to enable more HQs.
2) You are playing in an environment which forbids multiple detachments. A couple of tournaments have already announced that they are banning multiples CADs due to shenanigans certain armies can pull off, the main offender here apparently being necrons.
10" also isn't that hard to archive when you have 'ere we go and get +2" from boarding planks. You can also buy your warboss a Finkin' Kap and try to either get the +1" warlord trait from the BRB or the rerollable charge range from our warlord table.

Melevolence wrote:I think my course of action is going to be clear. I've always enjoyed CC most with Orks. Dakka is fine and all, but nothing feels better than slaughtering tanks by beating on them with my Choppa and Klaws. I've always loved Kanz anyway, and being able to pack 6 in one slot is AWESOME to me, even with their Panic rule now. I'm probably going to end up getting my mitts on 2 Morkanaughts, slapping KFF on them, and setting up a Kan wall with 5++ Invul bubbles, with Boyz taking up the rear (or possibly front, depending on scenario). Maybe field a Big Mek with another KFF for once the Boyz end up getting a little too far from the overlap bubble. Kanz and Naughts will drop rokkits and templates on the enemies, with little Meks inside the Naughts to keep the thing running, Painboyz with the Boyz to keep em stitched up.

If I'm feeling really risky (Which I usually am), I feel my Weirdboyz will see a lot of play with our new table. The witchfires are awesome, or being able to tele my blob of Boyz in while they try to deal with my invul walkers is always a neat idea as well. Maybe Ill run 2 Weirds in 30 strong blobs, keep them behind the Walkers, and try to pop off a teleport and open fire/charge the next turn into select targets, all while my walkers continue to hail fire on them.

Note that you can also add Meks to your boyz mobs for emergency repairs and generally a more fluffy look in the army. IMO weirdboyz would also work well in a mob of flash gits or tank bustas, since they can lay down a mean shooting the turn they deep strike.

The gaining of Hammer of Wrath comes in before modifiers, so the +2 from the boarding plank isnt benefitial in achieving this. Obviously Ere we go is still a benefit since you can opt to reroll one of the two dice. I'm no good at math hammer but that should give a pretty reasonable chance of rolling a 10.

is green tide using the formation a wash? i haven't played it in 6th or 7th, but you can get 180 boyz with toys in the squad for 1500 (we play 2k games around here). that leaves alot of room for warbosses and other characters and units.

can the gun lines kill that many orks by turn 2?

I would want to find ways to include fast objective secured troops into the list. If orks dont look like they can do this option well then I would look to find ways to be as lethal as possible against armies that can do fast mobile obj secured lists well.

I like the boarding planks option alot. I think heavy armor, trucks and planks is where I will start OR the FOC that allows for multiple WAAAGHS!!! per game.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

Mathhammer for 'ere we go is pretty much creating a spread sheet and comparing rerolls to no rerolls.
When you do, it becomes obvious that you should not reroll any 4's or higher unless you are already failing the charge.

If you alway reroll your lowest dice if it'S 3 or less, the average charge distance is 8.23".
If you always reroll your lowest dice, it's 7.92".
If you never reroll your lowest dice, it's 7", obviously.
If you reroll all rolls if they are 3 or less using the ork warlord trait, it's 8.5".
If you add the extra inch using the BRB warlord trait using 'ere we go as described in the first line, it's 9.23".

So basically, don't take a risk if you made the charge and a lower roll would fail you. If you didn't, then try to reroll your lowest dice. If you make it anyways and you want more orks in combat, reroll a dice below 3.
Also, the BRB charge+run trait is vastly superior to the ork charge+run trait.

Emm, how's our no-objective-secure for a 3 HQ foc different from plain unbound than? Just warlord trait rerolls?

Damn, i'd better have 0-3 additional slots like IG did.

 zachwho wrote:
is green tide using the formation a wash? i haven't played it in 6th or 7th, but you can get 180 boyz with toys in the squad for 1500 (we play 2k games around here). that leaves alot of room for warbosses and other characters and units.

can the gun lines kill that many orks by turn 2?

An unbuffed wave serpent can kill 6-7 boyz a turn, plus maybe another one due to mob rule. So, five wave serpents mean at least two mobs gone by the end of turn 2. You might not lose everything, but I wouldn't bank on having enough boyz to kill their stuff if you don't bring some sort of protection (FNP or KFF).


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 koooaei wrote:
Emm, how's our no-objective-secure for a 3 HQ foc different from plain unbound than? Just warlord trait rerolls?

Damn, i'd better have 0-3 additional slots like IG did.

Hammer of Wrath for units of 10 or more orks rolling 10" or more to charge. Basically one unit randomly ruining their target once per game.

HOW is unimpressive to say the least. Firstly, only the ones in basse contact will cause HOW. Secondly, it's s3. So, statistically, to kill 1 marine you'll need 9 HOW's. It's not that easy to bring 9 in base contact. And if you're allready close enough, it won't matter cause you'll have 50+ s4 attacks anywayz. So, not impressed with HOW. It feels like less reliable soulblaze. I mean even less reliable.

On the bright side is that it's at least something. But realistically, to make boyz work we'll have to play double foc or unbound anywayz cause you need warbosses and painbosses en masse. Or walker spams backed with big gunz and lootas. Will still need 2foc or unbound.