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Downside to dredds is i think the 3man MANz missile in trukk is more durable and about the same cost iirc lol. AV12 is just stupid easy to pop. I was really hoping for either some way to field more dredds or some way to get them across the table faster. Pretty much every gun that will splat a MAN and pen his armor has pretty good odds to pop a dredd too.
Also the MANz missile would be an Elite choice, which is kinda void of use atm if you dont want tankbustas. Frees up heavy slots.

You get two deff dreads for the costs of a MANz missile now.

Ok, thats a bit of a price difference. Though thats also 2 heavy slots

oh, ok. well that still seems pretty restrictive and very lame.

So bit of a memory jog from yesterday's breif look at the Ghazzy Waaagh Supplement:

1) There was a dread mob formation
* unit gains hammer of wrath that inflicts d3 wounds
*requires: 1 Big Mek, 1 Painboy, 2 Nauts, 3 deff dreds, 3 x 3 model unit of killa kanz

2) 3x 5 model MegaNob formation (all meganobz gain +1 WS, fear, & fearless)

3) there was a HQ formation
*requires: Ghazzy, grotznik, 1 big Mek, 2 warbosses, 1 unit of nobz
*all models in unit must deploy together
*models with IC cannot join or leave the unit
*as long as Waaagh banner is still alive all models in unit are fearless! and have +1 WS
*friendly Ork models within 12" reroll failed morale & pinning
*both Ork warbosses have +1WS
*make 2 rolls on Waaagh Ghazghull warlord traits (reroll duplicates) and apply both to Ghazzy


4) 5 Battlewagons (all battlewagons gain scout)
*all Battlewagons must have rams or deff rollas
*embarked units cannot charge if they go first

5) da vulcha boyz.
*requires 3 units of stormboyz & boss zagstruck
*all units must start in reserves and must arrive via deepstrike
*all hammer of wraith attacks gain shred
*may form all units into one big mob. Counts as 3 units for VP purposes when destroyed

6) snikrott formation
*requires snikrott! & 4 units of kommandos
*all units have the stealth rule replaced with shroud until the turn after they arrive
*snikrott must join one unit
*only make one roll for reserves for all units in formation
*all units in formation enter same board edge
*controlling player determines table edge
*on the turn they arrive if a unit doesn't shoot, it may reroll failed cover saves

7) greentide formation
(Covered previously)

I feel really upset about the loss of having a variety of playstyles from the new codex. However, the Ghazzy supplement seems to open up a lot of new avenues that we didn't have before. I don't know how formations work (whether they are apoc only, or if you can use this in casual games), but I think they will make a huge impact.

Formations are definitely not "Apoc only". You know there's really nothing that's "Apoc only" anymore right? It's all just 40k these days. The stompa superheavy is actually in the codex now, apparently, if you needed any more proof.

Building a battleforged list work like this in 7th:

1) Pick a faction (in our case: Orks)
2) Pick a detachment, fill it with at least the mandatory units and any optional units you want.
3) Add more detachments until you're out of points. One type of detachment can be chosen multiple times.
4) Select one detachment to be your primary detachment.
5) Pick a warlord from that detachment.

Possible types of detachment are:
1) Combined Arms Detachment (short CAD): Mostly know as the old FOC. All units must be part of your faction (Codex or Supplement). CAD troops get objective secured and a warlord from this detachment can reroll his warlord trait.
2) Allied Detachment: Pretty much 6th's allied FOC, may only contain units from one faction different from your primary detachment. So no allying dread mob or Waaagh! Ghazghkull to save troops. Troops from this detachment have objective secured, no matter how much they like you. So guardsmen can now capture objectives for you. Cannot pick warlord from this detachment.
3) Ork Horde Detachment: Mandatory 1 HQ 3 Troops, can get an additional 2 HQ 6 Troops 3 FA 3 Elite 3 HS 1 LoW 1 Fortification. Warlord from this detachment can reroll his warlord trait. Units in this detachment get HoW when 10 or more models charge 10".
4) Pick a formation. You pay the points for the models in the formation as normal, plus formation cost where applicable and gain all special rules of that formation. Unless stated otherwise, warlord can come from formations.

So in theory, it's possible to build an army that can have a CAD, an ork horde detachment, an allied detachment and two formations.

Jidmah, thanks for starting this thread, keeping things constructive and positive, and updating the summary on Page 1. Very much appreciated

One small caveat to "Da Dead Shiny Shoota"...you have to roll a separate D6 for every miss following the TL rerollls (not just misses that are 1's) and on each roll of 1 you hit a friendly unit within 6" of the targeted unit

are there more details about these formations somewhere else?

Solar Shock wrote:
ive never run dreds, whats there optimum targets? - vehicles, MC's, weak infantry units?
and what should I avoid? - dedicated CC units? or can I also give these a good bashing?

Pretty much anything you can get your klaws on, really. The only units which are a real threat are those who can spam melta-bombs (i.e. fire dragons, guard demolition veterans and tankbustas), really butch monstrous creatures and super-heavy walkers. A 'tarpit' unit of fearless light infantry will hold you up, but dreads are cheap enough that it doesn't really matter. The real issue is actually getting close to a target.

Solar Shock wrote:
hey guys


Grot tank - AV 10 again so not quite as durable as the kanz, but come with a built in 5+ invun save, which would be provided by the KFF morka, but now i dont have to worry about being within the 6" bubble. a little more pricey at 30 pts for the base model and then weapons on top. rokkits are 15 pts, which makes them 45, grotzooka at 10 pts. BS3, with 2D6 movement but can always shoot.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Grot tanks seem pretty good, again a little pricey if i was going with a rokkit loadout, but reasonable if loaded with grotzookas. movement little unpredictable, but still reasonably mobile at average 7". They also have the 5++, which is a nice bonus, as i wouldn't have to sit near them with a KFF. I can also bring them and use up a elites slot and not a heavy slot. The buggies however seem extremely pts efficient for the rokkit loadout, with no pts cost increase for the weapon swap, extremely mobile and i can field quite a few squadrons. So at this point im thinking that both the grot tanks and buggies seem superior in a gun platform point of view, providing more fire power per points cost at the sacrifice of the armour 11 and CC.

I have 5 "almost-finished" Grot Tanks that I started making from scratch a few months ago and would love to use them! Not sure they're the best choice but not bad for the reasons you stated...plus, they just look so fun on the table!

 zachwho wrote:
are there more details about these formations somewhere else?

Once the Ghazzy Waaagh supplement is out this weekend I'm sure you'll find all the details on this thread. I'm going back to my shop today, and I'll try to type up some details about each formation.

I really only did a quick once over, as I was more interested in looking at the new codex.

I really like that BW formation giving scout. Unfortunately you need 5 BWs. Me and my friends mostly play 1500 so its kinda tough to get that many in at that points. Kinda wish it was 3-5 BWs or something.

so to recap,

buffs/new stuff orks gained:


buff to CC in general with run+charge, and reroll charge dice, we also gained instant death CC weapons

we can make quite a few boyz mobs WS5, grant more FNP's to them, heck throw grotsnik in for + d3 extra attacks,
access to I 10 HOW attacks with our basic troops with the special formation too...
can buff every single boyz unit with ard armour!!!(not 100% sure, but didnt eacv armour go down a pt too?)
against necrons and tau behind cover, we go simultanious now.

huge buff to manz, more shooty options + acess to a ++ save without buying grotsnik, acess to instant death shooting weapons, possible deepstrike with formation. access to +1 attack and armourbane with killsaws

HQ units get rerolls with the lucky stick, guaranteed re rolls on saves
more hq's available with the special FOC


tank busters ACTUALLY BUST TANKS!!!!!! gaining tank hunter and losing the stupid "do stupid stuff cause you are stupid" rule!

FA slots got so much better, storm boys went down in cost by 30%, bikers went down in cost, neither went down in effectiveness (dont you dare try to assert that trading a 4+ cover save for a 4+/3+ jink isnt worth 7pt reduction, or that taking dangerous terrain matters with a 30% pts reduction)


every single FOC slot is full of stuff I want to take...

elite has MAN's + tankbusters and I want both, kommandos went down in pts and I found them effective then, so now they are cheaper, its even better. AFAIK snikrot can still put characters on the enemies back line, so you in theory can put him, the kommandos, 3 warbosses, and ghazzy on the back line turn two!!!!

troops: largly unchanged, boys and grots are both still competitive choices, main thing is boys can all get 4+ now, shootas went up a pt, but for being so effective, it makes sense.

FA: bikers and stormboys got cheaper... larger squad size toostill krump the enemies face off... hard to choose which ones to fill the slots with!

HS: really really congested slot, everyone wants everything in this one... personally I think the various artillary is the clear winner for me, cheap access to t7 grots that can team up with anything in mega armour to move and shoot? yes please! with BW's being dedicated transports for more elites slots, and mobs over 12 models being allowed to still take trukks, it makes it easier to "steal" another units transports to save HS slots for stuff other then battel wagons

Check my post up above, I'm updating with Ghazzy formation info, from his supplement.

 easysauce wrote:
can buff every single boyz unit with ard armour!!!(not 100% sure, but didnt eacv armour go down a pt too?)

Nope, still 4 points.

AFAIK snikrot can still put characters on the enemies back line, so you in theory can put him, the kommandos, 3 warbosses, and ghazzy on the back line turn two!!!!

Yes and no. His rule now changes how infiltrate works (rather than being a rule on its own), so if you character doesn't have that, you can't infiltrate him. You might infiltrate your warlord if he gets that trait, but Thrakka will always have the Prophet of the Waaagh! trait.

HS: really really congested slot, everyone wants everything in this one... personally I think the various artillary is the clear winner for me, cheap access to t7 grots that can team up with anything in mega armour to move and shoot? yes please! with BW's being dedicated transports for more elites slots, and mobs over 12 models being allowed to still take trukks, it makes it easier to "steal" another units transports to save HS slots for stuff other then battel wagons

Only nobz, MANz and flash gits get dedicated battlewagons. There also is no need to steeling trukks, as you can simply buy one as fast attack choice. I also don't think any unit that can embark on a trukk can't buy one, besides single HQ choices.

Jambles wrote:Formations are definitely not "Apoc only". You know there's really nothing that's "Apoc only" anymore right? It's all just 40k these days. The stompa superheavy is actually in the codex now, apparently, if you needed any more proof.

Nah theres still apoc only things, but more because of the point limitations than anything else lol. Pretty sure nobody is going to field a Tau Manta without an apoc game level of points.
For that matter not sure if anyone would field a Gargantuan Squiggoth either. I dont remember their points off the top of my head, but i know they arent cheap and probably not worth it if you cant back it up properly (as it would most likely be 1/4 to 1/3 your army worth lol)

tank busters ACTUALLY BUST TANKS!!!!!! gaining tank hunter and losing the stupid "do stupid stuff cause you are stupid" rule!

Yes! I saw this change and i was ecstatic. They got cheaper AND got the rule they SHOULD have had to begin with (tank hunter). Find it kinda funny they left out the MC bit, but i'll take the Tank Hunter and shut up smiling lol. Honestly didnt care about the Glory Hog rule after it got FAQ'd so you couldnt kite the crap out of them, since they almost never had a vehicle in range i DIDNT want them shooting at anyway.
My ....good god i think like 30 Rokkit Launcha and Tankbusta Bombz bitz i keep in a zippy bag are finally going to get used! yay!

On the MANz or Bike boss: my 2cents is what kind of list are you doing? Trukkers list, or bike list? If you are running a MANz missile or BW boyz already, i'd take the MAN boss personally since lets face it anything that will kill a MANz boss reliably will still clobber the gak out of a biker boss, and S10 in melee is kinda rare outside powerfists/klaws or Smash attacks (which are less common now since its only 1 smash in 7th).
If you dont want to dedicate the points for a BW/trukk list, i would go bikerboss just because he lacks any need for transport. Yeah, 4+ instead of 2+, but if you do not have the wheels to stick the MAN boss inside of he wont ever, EVER get to assault anything since he cannot run (still....)
Then again, could do what i did once that was oddly effective. Orky gunline with a unit of MANz + MAN Boss sitting in front going "You wanan kill me boyz behin' me? YEH GOTZ TA GO TRU ME FIRST!"
Except against IG tanklines, that was surprisingly effective lol. Even Tau had issues since technically tau have problems outside 36" range, and i was toting lootas + lobbas which are 48
EDIT: Actually thats kinda dead without going unbound lol. Not sure if you could field enough after paying the troop requirements for double FoC. Ughh..lootas in heavy...fml

 Jidmah wrote:
So, since our codex has arrived early due to GW's very own Mek technology shooting the codex into close combat, it's finally time to have a look at what changed for us orks from 6th edition:

Great post!

I'm interested in that Dread Mob formation from Ghazzy. VERY interested.

The first blood bonus on tankbustas makes them almost feel like an auto takex2. That can be all too important in games.

if that updated info is true then i am very happy, extremely happy. Dred formation is almost exactly what i was planning, that seems like a ridiculous ker-ching.

the MANz formation sounds sick too.

Can i take a detachment of dred formation and then another detachment of a formation? need to go back and check jidmah's post.
Edit:
Allied Detachment: Pretty much 6th's allied FOC, may only contain units from one faction different from your primary detachment. So no allying dread mob or Waaagh! Ghazghkull to save troops. Troops from this detachment have objective secured, no matter how much they like you. So guardsmen can now capture objectives for you. Cannot pick warlord from this detachment.
So no :( no dred mob with MANz missiles. but il definitely be making those. But then i also love zagsruk and a storm boy army would be sick

And yeh thanks Jidmah, this is a really solid thread, whining has been kept to a minimum, some good ideas and great info. Cheers man

The supplement formations generally seem quite weak, although the meganobs one seems like a good deal.

I think Tankbustas are now (in a vacuum) a little better at shooting AV12 then Lootas assuming the Lootas are firing two shots.

Versus AV11 and AV10 Lootas are still better. The good news for Tankbustas for AV11 though is they can reroll their glances and have a 50% chance for turning a glance into a pen and a 16.66667% Chance of just rolling another glance.

Tankbustas still have meltabombs, and I think they get to reroll those with tankhunters vs armor..

So with what we currently know about the new codex, how do we deal with an Imperial Knight? I have a friend who just got his. He runs it to generally back up his Space Marine army. I have no prrblems dealing with the rest of the army (BWs work wonders) but im not sure how to deal with that IK. Might just have to end up ignoring it. Any thoughts?

 Jidmah wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
So a Dread with four klaws now has EIGHT attacks on the charge? A pack of those should be able to take down pretty much anything in the game if they can reach it.

Profile has three attacks.
Base Dread has 2 PKs, so +1
Buy two more for 10 pts each, +2
Charge, +1
Hammer of Wrath would be the eight.

Total of one S5 AP- attack at I10, followed by seven S10 AP2 attacks at I2.

Does it make any mention of the second pk being included in the profile? The 4th Ed dread had 2 attacks base, but the extra attack from it's second weapon was included in the profile.

Did GW just copy/paste it's old stateline and forget that?

the formation that lets you waaagh every turn, is that in the ghaz supplement?

On the one hand, I don't like the higher likelihood of getting my boyz beaten

On the other hand TELLYPORTIN' 'ARD BOYZ WITH A MEGABOSS

Da Vulcha formation, you can combine the 3 mobs in 1? ... Like.... 90 stormboyz?!

XC18 wrote:
Da Vulcha formation, you can combine the 3 mobs in 1? ... Like.... 90 stormboyz?!

It sounds like a lot of fun

Gonna have to try this one..

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
On the one hand, I don't like the higher likelihood of getting my boyz beaten

On the other hand TELLYPORTIN' 'ARD BOYZ WITH A MEGABOSS

Damn, that detachment seems quite superior to the base codex FOC for the deep strike potential alone.